is anyone else having trouble starting this mod? because from what i can tell i have all requirements installed but when i go to level up the subclass is not there? any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Hey, I Love this mod! It's the first Subclass Mod I downloaded. I played a Rune Knight through Tomb of Annihilation, and it is so fun to see that character recreated in the game. Thank you so much for all the hard work you put into this mod, and bringing it to the game. And Thank you, @sumradagnoth8 for working on rebuilding it.
Could I make a humble request though? I don't know if anyone else has already mentioned this, or how hard this would be to do, but could you change the "buff" of Giant's Might to be a separate spell effect apart from "Enlarge"? What I'd love to be able to do is stack the two effects.
I don't quite remember if this was RAW but when I played Tomb, my Rune Knight was also a Duergar, that gets access to the enlarge spell at level 3 just like in BG3. Since Giant's Might and Enlarge were separate spells/effects, my DM allowed them to stack. So from level three on, my fighter could literally grow from Medium to Huge. Which just made for some tremendously fun encounters. A Duergar fighting toe to toe with Frost Giants and an Undead TRex and by the end of the module, a demi-god. I'd love to see that fun silliness brought to BG3 and I doubt it would be overpowered or game-breaking... it didn't seem to be throughout ToA on the Table.
This change would allow other players to get the benefit in other ways too, without having to use the Duergar race. Anyone could pop an elixir of the Colossus or have Gale cast Enlarge on them, so it just brings some extra utility to Giants Might.
If that's not your vision for the rebuilt mod/subclass that's cool. I'm still really thankful to get to play it, and I really appreciate the work to bring it to the game! You're awesome, and Thank You again.
In my rebuild, the enlarge spell should stack properly with giants might, per tabletop rules. What your dm ruled for you is the way it is supposed to work :)
So yeah at 18th level Runic Juggernaut, with Enlarge cast, we can have these shenanigans:
I also fixed it so that Runic Juggernaut properly applies the 5' reach bonus to your melee attacks (like RAW), and additive with weapons that already have reach.
Also have it working with Dr. Kekyll's grappling framework so you can make the classic Rune Knight overpowered grappler build in BG3
Sadly, Patch6 broke SE (as expected), so gonna be pending that to get fixed before I can fully post the mod.
This is awesome. Can’t wait to see it live. It gave me an excuse to pause and go back to my pre-modded game and finish Act 3. Hopefully the SE issues are resolved soon, and by then you’ll be able to post the rebuild. But if not, I’ve still got a couple characters I’m excited to play through.
Now if I could only find someone who wants to mod in the Grung…
Ok I am finishing up this last subclass then I am going to redo and upkeep rune knight. I honestly have never played it - do we have an accurate account of what is currently not working properly? Is the bug list valid?
I have not had any of the issues listed there. I think the "button not working" thing is based upon missing the Community Library, Improved UI, and/ or Compatibility Framework mods. I have them for other mods, and they work just fine. Bear in mind that the Flame Rune doesn't HAVE an effect that is activated through that "button", so there won't be anything in there if that's your first rune.
The bigger problem is that Rune Knight is absolutely awful, RAW. That is not the fault of this mod at all; this does a GREAT job of implementing it... it's just a crappy subclass. The original Unearthed Arcana (playtest material) was arguably too powerful, but the official release version is just plain garbage. Again, no fault of this mod, just an unfortunate situation.
In practical terms, you get two relatively weak spell-like effects only usable once per short rest and some additional skill proficiencies. The proficiencies are nice, but not that big a deal when you [should] have a rogue/ bard/ three other characters.
A great microcosm for understanding this subclass is the flame rune, which is arguably one of the best. When you connect with an attack with any weapon (which already makes this mod implementation better than RAW), you get the opportunity to apply Flame Shackles. The enemy gets a saving throw to avoid this altogether, and most enemies you would want to shackle have a really good chance of avoiding it... especially on Honour/ Tactician difficulties. Whether the ability is successful or not, you cannot use this ability until a short rest. Every other turn until your next rest is just "basic" fighter stuff... which isn't bad, but also isn't very interesting.
Now, if the enemy fails the saving throw, they take 2d6 damage and are held in place. That's solid damage at level 3 (when you get this) and immobilizing certain enemies can be really good... but there are two significant flaws with this: a) Being immobilized doesn't really change much in most cases, because most enemies won't leave your fighter's melee range anyway, for fear of taking the Opportunity Attack. So in 9 cases out of 10, they're just going to do exactly what they would have done otherwise: punch your fighter in the face. The exception is that this effect CAN be applied by a bow as well, which can be situationally very helpful. For example, I had Lae'zel use this on the barbarian grave robber at the very beginning of the game, and it was EXTREMELY helpful to keep him out of combat for a turn. But even so, that's happened 2 or 3 times in an entire playthrough. Unless you plan to build a ranged fighter around this exact strategy that can be used one time per short rest, this doesn't seem worth it. b) 2d6 fire damage is quite good at level 3... but not at level 12. It doesn't scale, and later enemies have a much higher chance of succeeding their saving throws. I'm now late in Act 3, and it's basically useless.
By contrast, a Battlemaster can knock enemies down, or push them back, or swap places 3 times per short rest, and that scales up. When they use those abilities, they also deal extra damage that's almost as much as the 2d6 Fire Rune anyway. Eldritch Knight gets access to Thunderwave and Cloud of Daggers, which are both extremely useful for the entire game.
tl;dr This mod works great. It's faithful enough to the official, published 5e Rune Knight, and fits in great with the action economy/ design of BG3. The problem is that the subclass in general is extremely lackluster. Not a problem of the mod... the blame is with WotC in this case.
This is great feedback, and since yeah I do these mods raw, I can deprioritize this if it’s working well. and I feel you on the wotc shade… at least it’s not as bad as Banneret ;)
> The bigger problem is that Rune Knight is absolutely awful, RAW.
You’re kidding right? Rune Knight is almost universally acknowledged as the second strongest fighter subclass in 5e, second only to Echo Knight. Look up any published subclass tier list.
Yes, you start out with 2 runes compared to the BM’s 4, but they are *far* stronger. Fire Rune doesn’t just immobilize, it *restrains*, giving the target disadvantage on all attacks, and everyone else advantage on attacks against them. And the 5e version also works on any weapons, *including ranged*. You can literally knock a dragon out of the sky with a javelin.
And the Cloud Rune is probably the strongest single feature of any fighter subclass, again with the exception of the Echo Knight’s echo. An enemy can crit-smite your caster running Hunger of Hadar, and you can just apply that damage to an enemy instead. It’s bonkers.
And you also have it backwards in that it’s the *Battlemaster* that runs out of interesting thing to do once they run out of maneuver dice. The Rune Knight will be running Giant’s Might, so will have advantage on STR checks and extra damage.
The biggest downside for BG3 is that they didn’t implement grappling, so they can’t take full advantage of the STR advantage.
@Limukala, have you used the class in either TT or BG3? It severely underperforms compared to most other fighter subclasses. On paper, it should be over-the-top amazing... but it's normally not in most situations.
Now, in BG3, there's nothing stopping you from taking a short rest after every single combat, and at that point, yes, it probably is the most OP fighter subclass. But as a DM, I would absolutely never let my players do that, and I choose not to play BG3 that way.
So for those who are perfectly willing to abuse the weakly implemented rest mechanic in this game: yes, this subclass will be insanely powerful.
For those who try to get in a full adventuring "day" between rests: this is a really, really awesome RP subclass for people who want to play a less boring Barbarian.
sumradagnoth8 Don't listen to the long rant post about the actual class and pretends the mod has no issues. For one, your modifier is not added to the spell DC of Fiery Shackles meaning it is basically impossible to ever land it on an enemy. Another issue is the sound when using the enlarge ability that blasts the sound effect continuously at max volume for the ENTIRE duration (Imagine if eldritch blast sound effect was turned up 5 notches and set on repeat for 1 minute straight). Those are the ones I personally found and ones you can check quite easily in game. Hope it helps!
igor140 plenty have used it including myself and it is incredibly strong. Not only do you get tons of attack options with runes, but they also grant you very strong passives on top of that. That is not even including all the strength benefits from giant abilities. It's universally considered on of the strongest fighter subclasses.... also dunno why you pretend the mod has zero issues when the spell DC for the effects and enlarge sound is totally messed up which takes like 1 second to see in game. Makes me think you just didn't even use this mod and went straight to complaining, but sumradagon asked for feedback concerning the mod which is a pretty disingenuous time to be ranting off topic.
All of the documented issues are fixed in my rebuild, and I’ve managed to get all the runes working raw (except cloud because of the combat engine BUT my implementation for cloud is VERY close to raw).
After playing with the subclass a bit, I agree that it is strong. And undoubtably the best grappling build in 5e, especially if you can get enlarge cast while in giants might. The one issue is that the subclass is extremely reaction-heavy so the economy there is very tight…. But I suppose that’s a factor for balance.
I was messing around with the subclass as well in modding tool to see if I can fix some of the runes, for storm rune having an interrupt with X charges is the closest I got to the raw implementation that gives you ten turns of an interrupt after using a BA.
Looking forward to see your reworked implementation :)
Yes thats how I did it too... invoke the rune with a BA, then you get 2 interrupts (advantage & disadvantage) that trigger on Save and Attack rolls for the cost of a reaction. It also unlocks a spell container with 2 spells (Adv & Disadv) to cast with a reaction point for the ability roll part of the feature (since there is no interrupt context for ability rolls in bg3, i had to make that part a normal spell)
179 comments
Could I make a humble request though? I don't know if anyone else has already mentioned this, or how hard this would be to do, but could you change the "buff" of Giant's Might to be a separate spell effect apart from "Enlarge"? What I'd love to be able to do is stack the two effects.
I don't quite remember if this was RAW but when I played Tomb, my Rune Knight was also a Duergar, that gets access to the enlarge spell at level 3 just like in BG3. Since Giant's Might and Enlarge were separate spells/effects, my DM allowed them to stack. So from level three on, my fighter could literally grow from Medium to Huge. Which just made for some tremendously fun encounters. A Duergar fighting toe to toe with Frost Giants and an Undead TRex and by the end of the module, a demi-god. I'd love to see that fun silliness brought to BG3 and I doubt it would be overpowered or game-breaking... it didn't seem to be throughout ToA on the Table.
This change would allow other players to get the benefit in other ways too, without having to use the Duergar race. Anyone could pop an elixir of the Colossus or have Gale cast Enlarge on them, so it just brings some extra utility to Giants Might.
If that's not your vision for the rebuilt mod/subclass that's cool. I'm still really thankful to get to play it, and I really appreciate the work to bring it to the game! You're awesome, and Thank You again.
What your dm ruled for you is the way it is supposed to work :)
I also fixed it so that Runic Juggernaut properly applies the 5' reach bonus to your melee attacks (like RAW), and additive with weapons that already have reach.
Also have it working with Dr. Kekyll's grappling framework so you can make the classic Rune Knight overpowered grappler build in BG3
Sadly, Patch6 broke SE (as expected), so gonna be pending that to get fixed before I can fully post the mod.
Now if I could only find someone who wants to mod in the Grung…
The bigger problem is that Rune Knight is absolutely awful, RAW. That is not the fault of this mod at all; this does a GREAT job of implementing it... it's just a crappy subclass. The original Unearthed Arcana (playtest material) was arguably too powerful, but the official release version is just plain garbage. Again, no fault of this mod, just an unfortunate situation.
In practical terms, you get two relatively weak spell-like effects only usable once per short rest and some additional skill proficiencies. The proficiencies are nice, but not that big a deal when you [should] have a rogue/ bard/ three other characters.
A great microcosm for understanding this subclass is the flame rune, which is arguably one of the best. When you connect with an attack with any weapon (which already makes this mod implementation better than RAW), you get the opportunity to apply Flame Shackles. The enemy gets a saving throw to avoid this altogether, and most enemies you would want to shackle have a really good chance of avoiding it... especially on Honour/ Tactician difficulties. Whether the ability is successful or not, you cannot use this ability until a short rest. Every other turn until your next rest is just "basic" fighter stuff... which isn't bad, but also isn't very interesting.
Now, if the enemy fails the saving throw, they take 2d6 damage and are held in place. That's solid damage at level 3 (when you get this) and immobilizing certain enemies can be really good... but there are two significant flaws with this:
a) Being immobilized doesn't really change much in most cases, because most enemies won't leave your fighter's melee range anyway, for fear of taking the Opportunity Attack. So in 9 cases out of 10, they're just going to do exactly what they would have done otherwise: punch your fighter in the face. The exception is that this effect CAN be applied by a bow as well, which can be situationally very helpful. For example, I had Lae'zel use this on the barbarian grave robber at the very beginning of the game, and it was EXTREMELY helpful to keep him out of combat for a turn. But even so, that's happened 2 or 3 times in an entire playthrough. Unless you plan to build a ranged fighter around this exact strategy that can be used one time per short rest, this doesn't seem worth it.
b) 2d6 fire damage is quite good at level 3... but not at level 12. It doesn't scale, and later enemies have a much higher chance of succeeding their saving throws. I'm now late in Act 3, and it's basically useless.
By contrast, a Battlemaster can knock enemies down, or push them back, or swap places 3 times per short rest, and that scales up. When they use those abilities, they also deal extra damage that's almost as much as the 2d6 Fire Rune anyway. Eldritch Knight gets access to Thunderwave and Cloud of Daggers, which are both extremely useful for the entire game.
tl;dr
This mod works great. It's faithful enough to the official, published 5e Rune Knight, and fits in great with the action economy/ design of BG3. The problem is that the subclass in general is extremely lackluster. Not a problem of the mod... the blame is with WotC in this case.
and I feel you on the wotc shade… at least it’s not as bad as Banneret ;)
You’re kidding right? Rune Knight is almost universally acknowledged as the second strongest fighter subclass in 5e, second only to Echo Knight. Look up any published subclass tier list.
Yes, you start out with 2 runes compared to the BM’s 4, but they are *far* stronger. Fire Rune doesn’t just immobilize, it *restrains*, giving the target disadvantage on all attacks, and everyone else advantage on attacks against them. And the 5e version also works on any weapons, *including ranged*. You can literally knock a dragon out of the sky with a javelin.
And the Cloud Rune is probably the strongest single feature of any fighter subclass, again with the exception of the Echo Knight’s echo. An enemy can crit-smite your caster running Hunger of Hadar, and you can just apply that damage to an enemy instead. It’s bonkers.
And you also have it backwards in that it’s the *Battlemaster* that runs out of interesting thing to do once they run out of maneuver dice. The Rune Knight will be running Giant’s Might, so will have advantage on STR checks and extra damage.
The biggest downside for BG3 is that they didn’t implement grappling, so they can’t take full advantage of the STR advantage.
Now, in BG3, there's nothing stopping you from taking a short rest after every single combat, and at that point, yes, it probably is the most OP fighter subclass. But as a DM, I would absolutely never let my players do that, and I choose not to play BG3 that way.
So for those who are perfectly willing to abuse the weakly implemented rest mechanic in this game: yes, this subclass will be insanely powerful.
For those who try to get in a full adventuring "day" between rests: this is a really, really awesome RP subclass for people who want to play a less boring Barbarian.
the audio bug I think that's a vanilla problem tho
Looking forward to see your reworked implementation :)