Tangent Space Normal Maps Issue

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kozakowy

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Hey there,

just wanted to point out one thing, since I've been struggling with this fo some time.
I'm modelling in 3dsmax nad texturing in Substance Painter.

I was constantly noticing that the Standard DirectX normal maps generated in Substance Painter aren't working well on my models in Skyrim.
Tried flipping X Y and Z all the time or switching to OpenGL - none helped.

What worked was rotating the UV "top" direction 90 degs counter clockwise and then inverting the red channel (illustration no 3 ).
But when I tried to rotate the UV back - it didn't work again.

I'm not that good at normals but anyone familiar with this behavior - has the UV "top" direction really be 90degs to the left?

Thanks :)
K.

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13 comments

  1. zzjay
    zzjay
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    Maybe this helps

    https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/32084/

    But i don't use substance painter...it's like too expensive.
    i jus have blender..and well i did normalmaps from high poly to lowpoly like once o twice only...
    I do know tht normalmapsi n skyrim must have a certain setting so stick with the one that works.
    Foir example in xnormal you have to flip green channel.
    1. kozakowy
      kozakowy
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      Thanks zzjay

      Yup this tutorial is about doing what I tried to do the whole morning - to do a object-space normal. I also used xNormal but ended up with multiple errors since my 3dsmax exported fbx was generating some random normals.

      Looks like you're right that there is a separate standard actually

      I'm using 3ds since my daytime job is based on it, but I am far from loving it
    2. zzjay
      zzjay
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      blender camera setting are x90 degrees and y and z to 0

      if you wanna do obj space just boot up blender witht hese settings and then invert green i think

      and that should be an obj space....but thats only used by character models,and not aarmors last time i checked.
    3. ajhardy
      ajhardy
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      I love the whizzing noise this discussion made as it went over my head.
    4. kozakowy
      kozakowy
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      Thanks for the tip zzjay! I have to install blender finally and test it. Maybe this is the time really
    5. zzjay
      zzjay
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      2.49b works well with skyrim meshes and also has an utility to keep imported normals (when u turn it on)
      https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/42755/
      And it's portable so it doesnt even need an installation.

      i gueess you can find a quick guide for obj space normalmap everywhere on youtube given the interface is probably a mess for someone used to max,but in 2.8 you'll have no problems


    6. kozakowy
      kozakowy
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      Cool, thanks a lot zzjay. I'm going to check Blender out if my investigation fails now I noticed that 3ds might also export meshes with wrong tangent space params. I'm checking if using "Update Tangent Space" in Nifscope may solve this.
    7. zzjay
      zzjay
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      i woldn't recommend it... in my time exporting witcher 3 meshes i figured updating tangent space makes the models curve inward...

      Have an image of a comparison i took:
      https://zzjay88.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/68950-0-1482263985.jpg?w=1440

      I have no clue if it's somehow related to the way their normalmaps are built...or whatever...but recalculting vertex normals in blender fixed my issue for Witcher meshes...idk i it's of any help to you given it's just information i gathered up without proper knowledge
    8. kozakowy
      kozakowy
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      Wow, this curved surface effect looked really weird. Tomorrow I'll do some tests to improve the workflow. Thanks for sharing these valuable remarks. Learning through reverse engineering FTW Let's Hope for the best
  2. clauDA
    clauDA
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    Thanks for the link/pdf ! I've been looking for a long time.(-;
    1. kozakowy
      kozakowy
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      This bugged the s*** out of me also for a long time
  3. vintagelf
    vintagelf
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    Confuse the crap outta me, whydontcha.
    1. kozakowy
      kozakowy
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