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14 comments
Hmm, Maybe I can mix the environment map with another more normal one to smooth things out a bit... if I can find the cubemap mixing actions for photoshop I vaguely remember making hehe.
Or do you think it's a case of dial down the reflection settings in the meshes and up the spec ?
I'm not explaining it very well, so here is a link for you to check out.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R7kVhzoElz7mUkBbRtel6mQAgT67uueB/view?usp=sharing
I'm hoping it will work if you just unzip it to your desktop though you may need to fix the texture pathing.
It's hard to tell how the effect should be like in nifskope.. and you may be using settings I dunno about :)
Multiple specular layers (usually on top of multiple reflection layers) is kind of the norm for achieving metal like effects in traditional rendering (to simulate multiple layers like the underlying rough finish with the overlying wax, then the scratches.. you know) but usually it's built into the material pipeline, or if you are making your own game you just add more layers to your shader hehe.. you went all oldschool, love it :)
Sorry if this is stuff you obviously know, just for anyone else reading it, might be helpful.
Without seeing it in game I have one small suggestions maybe... try the BC6h format with 16bit/chan for smx3_nova_armorDarker_diff, or any diffuse.. 16bit / clamped 32bit and you can pump as much colour depth out of the format while still keeping that exact same file size and vram impact :)
"Lol, you actually were doing what I thought you meant.. I just didn't know it was doable in the ue4 / sse engine... is there no flickering etc ?, or do you push the meshes slightly?"
For some reason the duplicate shapes just covered the originals. Not sure why maybe there is some kind of ranking or prioritizing I don't know about. To get the effect to do what I wanted , I had to set the shiny/inner shapes to not receive shadows. Otherwise it didn't look right if you were standing in the shade.
The outer shapes with the transparencies don't cast shadows. I just did this the save on resources. I also ran into the fact that water seems to reflect transparencies in an odd way. The reflection glows this really bright yellow. I had try different things to fix that. It ended up that ticking "SLFS1_decal" under Shader Flags 1 did the trick. I'm not sure why.
"Multiple specular layers (usually on top of multiple reflection layers) is kind of the norm for achieving metal like effects in traditional rendering (to simulate multiple layers like the underlying rough finish with the overlying wax, then the scratches.. you know) but usually it's built into the material pipeline, or if you are making your own game you just add more layers to your shader hehe.. you went all oldschool, love it :)"
Here's where you start to school me. Can you add more specular layers in nifskope? Most of what I have learned has been by trial and error. It's just a hobby for me.
"Sorry if this is stuff you obviously know, just for anyone else reading it, might be helpful."
Still learning apparently.
"Without seeing it in game I have one small suggestions maybe... try the BC6h format with 16bit/chan for smx3_nova_armorDarker_diff, or any diffuse.. 16bit / clamped 32bit and you can pump as much colour depth out of the format while still keeping that exact same file size and vram impact :) "
I really don't know much about different compression types. I've been tweaking/altering my textures with GIMP.
Thanks for the feedback. Looks like I'll have something new to research this week.
Using the decal flag might be kind of genius I think... decal is basically (afaik) meant for things like paint on a characters face, maybe fire effects like the daedric armor, or blood effects in game etc, might actually be the only way to layer effects in this game engine, kudos for finding a possibly unintended way to use it :)
I'm not sure if there are other ways to layer things in this game, but I didn't know what you were doing was possible so by all means disregard anything I say on the subject :D ... normally I just use nifskope to adjust the BSLightingShaderProperty, something I do actually know kind of ... like hmm, usually in traditional rendering (films and tv etc) when you are layering specularity it is to achieve two different glossiness finishes...
e.g. a rubber car tyre reflects light in a very broad way since the micro surface detail is very bumpy, so you will want a glossiness value of maybe 20-40 or so for that rubber / plastic look... if that tyre then gets wet you have a different coating (water) which requires a glossiness factor of say 120-140+ or so since water is very highly smooth and reflective... that water does not take away the fact that the rubber tyre still exists under it ?
Another example would be wood, the roughness of a raw cut piece of wood bounces light in every possible direction if it is old and dry, so glossiness should be similar to rubber / lower (with an insanely rough and bumpy specular map), but if you were to sand it and smooth it down the glossiness will raise to 50/60. If you were then to apply varnish you are basically adding another layer on top. For most game engines like skyrim all you have to work with is the end result, if a bit of wood is varnished then it's glossiness must be really high... when in reality the micro detail of the underlying wood is still reflecting light in every possible direction, even more since a lot of it will be reflected back from the varnish in my mind... not sure, would have to run some render tests that take days per frame to see if I am right in that assumption hehe. It could possibly be 3 layers or more to get it right.
To get the approximation right I mean :)... for now the more we try and emulate life the more work the poor computers have to do hehe... specularity was always a placeholder for real world reflections, it is a broad guestimation of how reflective an object is... how much light it bounces into your eye. For years in the production world we have had the ability to actually eradicate specularity altogether hehe, it's just renders may take a year or two per frame... it doesn't matter how fast your computer is, you can have thousands of cpu cores at your bid and call, and all you will ever want to do is see how close you can get to reality, how far you can push it, render times never get lower :D
The only answer is the singularity that I have been dreaming about since scifi books from the 80s etc hehe... sadly most of those end with robots taking over the world though! :D
I haven't tried exporting from gimp yet for dx11, but if it's the same intel dds exporter addon then setting I use for textures that don't have an alpha is just "Texture type: color".. "Compression: BC6h"
your textures will then use the exact same memory footprint, but will be completely artifact free... the only compression I can think of we would need monitors that haven't been invented yet to notice haha (it's goal was to bring 32bit / channel HDR textures to games, but reducing it to a half float 16bit/channel version... as far as I can tell with a 7bit/channel monitor, it's just amazingly close to the 16bit/chan textures I used to use then release as 8bit/channel "lossless" textures hehe. It's the only reason I am still modding, albeit slowly :)
Edit: if you don't have access to the intel plugin then send tthe raw files over, same goes for anyone that reads this :)... dx11 is badass, hurts when I see green artifacts etc.
Specularity has been replaced by roughness I mean.. which is amazing.... just sigh, I will never be happy :P
I don't mind converting textures for you and others that might need it... the damn green and purple blocks should be a thing of the past.
If you can then render out at 16bit / chan first hehe.. like why not ? :)... normally the memory difference for BC6h is that it uses the alpha channel to add more color depth from what I can tell, so a 16meg dxt1 texture will now be the same as dxt5 / BC7, 21megs... yours is 8bit / channel, with artifacts, and no alpha but still 21meg hehe.. has me scratching head a bit :)
I promise not to not look / comment on any files you want converting unless you want an opinion, I 100% guarantee that I will never share them / mention them to others...
I will have a google around to see if I can find another way.. adobe only seems kinda nuts.
I honestly don't mind being your conversion app if you don't hehe.. only reason I mod is to have a look behind the scenes, try and work out how the magic trick is working :)
Edit: well, that and lol.. bethesda really do hire the odd amazing artist... find it fascinating to look at how they handle things, just a shame everything is so compressed... my logic is that if I keep playing with the work of masters then some of it might rub off hehe, texture work is the main failing I have I think... well, besides social skills :P ......
Edit: And alcoholism.. addiction to anything hehe... hmm, maybe I should rephrase that into texture work for me is the last big puzzle I want to learn... I am a good render artist, insanely good with abusing flow charts / photoshop to do what I want hehe, it's just the actual painting... I have always struggled, so kind of hope it gets absorbed while looking at what people do :)