The 2024-04-25 Fallout 4 update (1.10.980 and later) has broken F4SE and the rest of the native code modding scene similarly to Skyrim's "Anniversary Edition" patch. An update is available, but I'm sure it can use more testing. Do not email with questions about progress.
Thank you for all of the support! I assume people would rather have me working on the update than making individual responses, but in general thanks for the nice words and support.
2024-04-27: The first step of the update process is done, doing a first pass at updating all of the addresses for the new version of the game. Another long step begins now, validating the addresses and seeing if there were any structure layout changes. This would not benefit from external testing. 2024-04-28: Building regression tests for games on this engine is painful. To progress on something else that needs work before release, I'm porting over the plugin manager changes and loader changes from SKSE64 and SFSE. This modernizes plugin version detection, and minimizes the virus scanner false positive issues by using a single loader executable that doesn't need to change with each version. 2024-04-29: Secondary preloaders and f4se_steam_loader.dll are no longer needed. Plugins now use the declarative version system from SKSE64/SFSE. Plugin manager is back up and running. Struct comparison between the two versions continues, but I haven't found anything interesting that changed so far. If the next session (not necessarily tomorrow) keeps finding nothing, I'll probably put up a prerelease version to get test results. 2024-04-30: I've put up a very early build so that mod developers can test their plugins and mods against 1.10.980. I appreciate feedback, but right now I can only realistically handle focused feedback from mod developers who know how their scripts work. Reports like "when I call GetWaterType on this specific cell with editor ID [whatever] it returns the wrong result" would be ideal, but I'll be doing investigation as needed. 2024-05-01: Investigating feedback. 1.10.980 itself has some major stability problems that I can reproduce with just vanilla content, so there's probably (hopefully) going to be a follow-up patch soon. Updating for that will not take anywhere near as long as 1.10.980. The unstable base makes finding problems in my code more difficult than it should be. 2024-05-02: A few fixes from mod author reports and requests. Let's see what happens if I widen the audience a bit. 2024-05-03: Apart from the usual misdirected complaints about other people needing to update their mods (expected), things seem pretty good so far. If you can make make the game crash with a single mod, have QA-style repro steps, and the problem doesn't happen when being run without the loader, please let me know. 2024-05-04: Fixed GetResourceLibraryProcAddress - if you are a plugin author trying to update your plugin, that plugin has additional exported addresses, and the plugin loader is doing something weird with it, this will fix the problem. Fixed SplineUtils::ConnectSpline. Most of the updates going forward are going to be very uninteresting, with me just watching the forums and other places to see if people are crashing in a way that isn't caused by the vanilla game, maybe doing small fixes like mentioned earlier. Once I find something seriously wrong or something that is impacting plugin authors then I'll put out a new version with the fixes. 2024-05-10: Bethesda has announced a hotfix patch that will be released on the 13th. This, as is normal, will break things, but nowhere near as badly as the 1.10.980 update. I'll have an update out as soon as possible to support the patch. Hopefully some of the vanilla crashes will be fixed. 2024-05-13: Hotfix released, should have an update after lunch. Seems stable aside from some plugins with bad version data. I am contacting the authors where possible. 2024-05-20: Currently it doesn't appear that any updates to F4SE are needed. Still observing plugin stability.
All native code plugins (.dlls) need to be updated by their creators for 1.10.980. Old native code plugins not loading is not a problem with F4SE. The Starfield loader has given Windows Defender problems in the past. This is a false positive.
The MCM beta 1.40 has incorrect version data and crashes on startup with 1.10.984. An update is available. Better Console also has bad version data and crashes on startup with 1.10.984.
Follow it cause you need to learn how to download the repositories and how to open the steam console. Once you got that down you have to download these and install them in order replacer EVERYTHING whenever it is needed.
(Keep in mind that you are re-downloading the game from what has been saved in STEAMDB, do it one by one, don't hog your download speed by trying to do it all at once. File size should be about 22-ish GBs once you have everything. Once again FOLLOW the guide so you know where the repos will be downloaded and where / how you'll want to move them around.)
Once that is done you have to delete most new files from the creation club that will be in your DATA, these are the culprits that will cause your game to crash since Bethesda updated them in masse I can't be sure which one is safe to keep and which one isn't, so for now it is best to put them in a Back Up folder. Now, anything that has "ccBG" at the beginning of its name in the DATA folder should be safe to remove, that is the code they give to creation club content, however, if you use mods, you probably already know that these are not very much compatible with anything extra from nexus you add to the game.
Once you have all that done REMEMBER to play the game in offline mode / to shut off wi-fi on your steam deck (as is my case) or to delete any manifesto that will force the game to update, cause it will break everything again. Once you have everything I stated done you can probably re-install the current (non-updated) version of the Script Extender and start playing. I've not encountered any crashes or data corruptions. Save games seem clean enough that I have no missing ESP / ESL / Meshes / Textures. If anything goes wrong or you don't feel confident enough that this won't screw your fallout 4 install folder then don't try it. For MO2 this should be safe enough since mods are kept separately from the game elsewhere.
@ianpatt if you could pin this so people know not to bother you it would be great.
All depots are listed on this page : https://steamdb.info/app/377160/depots/ Make sure you donload the version released before April 25 ! I also believe you'll have to download your language depots in addition to the standard packages.
So anyone else running into the The Procedure entry point SteamUser could not be located in the dynamic link library
There's likely 1 of 2 issues causing this for you 1) steam_api64.dll 2) Your deployed mods
Follow these steps: 1) Open your Mod Manager and Purge your mods (don't worry this doesn't delete all the mods you downloaded) -- Also, if you used Vortex or MO2 to install F4SE (which you shouldn't) disable it in your mod manager!!! -- Also, if you installed the unofficial FO4 Patch manually, you're gonna need to uninstall that as well 2) Go to your Fallout 4 install directory and make sure all the F4SE files are gone, don't forget the stuff in the \Data folder and \Data\F4SE --Also, go in to your DATA directory and look for any files that start with ccBG and DELETE those files if you haven't already Alternatively, you can make a Backup folder and copypasta them there and then delete, your choice
3)MANUALLYinstall F4SE 4) Run the game from your mod manager or from the f4se launcher, your choice. -- Make sure that you can load your save, it's gonna whine at you about the missing mods, fo'getaboutit
If you can start the game and load your save, even with the bitching, ALT F4 5) Now you can go back in your mod manager and REDEPLOY your mods
If it's still not working, you're going to need a clean copy of the steam_api64.dll from 04/16/2024 Don't ask me where to get one Copy in the steam_api64.dll in to the ROOT of your Fallout 4 installation before continuing with steps 3 and on above
If this still didn't work for you, well, there may be no hope for you until F4SE gets updated...
This is likely a dumb question, but I was wondering if these "stealth upgrades" by Bethesda are actually legal. I mean, they are altering files on my computer against my wishes and without permissions after all. Is there something hidden in the Eula that gives them admin rights on my computer?? Just wondering...
Also....
Is there a comprehensive list of all/most of the mods that depend on F4SE. That would be a great assist.
In the modern climate where patches are literally guaranteed, it's on the user to take steps to prevent any given game from patching automatically if said user desires this.
We don't live in 2004 nay more where patches come on demo disks or from an hour manually downloading it via dial up.
As to whether or not it's legal? Yea it's legal.
Is it annoying when the patches are s#*!? Yes to that too.
These are not stealth upgrades, Bethesda does announce them at least when they happen, often before.
You granted permission for files to be installed on your computer when you: A. Installed Steam B. Purchased a game, and C. installed that game on your computer If you would like files to not be installed on your computer automatically it is up to you to disable automatic updates as they come automatically enabled when steam is installed.
Nothing has admin rights by default, if you require admin rights to install files on your computer, I would assume that you are not the system admin, if so check with the system admin, if not then nothing inherently requires admin rights to install files on your computer. If you are launching steam as a system administrator, that is where steam is getting admin rights from.
In short, yes, it is completely legal for Bethesda to update any game they created at any time for any reason, and it is legal for steam or other platforms to install the updates when they become available. If you do not like this, you are welcome to try and find an option that does not include automatic updating features.
As far as a list of mods that require F4SE, you may check the requirements tab on the description page of this mod, however that is not guaranteed to include every mod that requires F4SE nor does it guarantee that every listed mod is up-to-date. If a mod requires F4SE it will state that on its download page. If the mod does not list F4SE as a requirement, but does require it, that is an issue that should be presented to that mod author, it is not an issue related to F4SE itself.
The last two 'updates' that I 'received' were done while I was online, quietly, in the background, without notification of any sort.
The first of these literally destroyed the game. The second came a day after I had jumped through all the hoops Steam offered to undo the previous update, and it once again destroyed my new partially working setup and inserted a busload of Cash Club material to boot. It is currently unplayable and I'm considering removing it altogether, after spending the last few days online searching for a remedy. Since F4SE is not fully usable until all the mod authors update the affected mods, I first tried to run the game without mods that used the extender, and ended up removing everything. At that point I realized the game was simply broken. That was why I asked about the stealth updates, because in my case, that was exactly what they were and they were malicious. I was hoping that the law would have some sane means of wrist-slapping Steam at least, for causing malicious alterations to files on my machine without consent. Hope springs eternal. Then I thought it was probably some legalese in the Eula; some undecipherable part of the purchase agreement or whatever legal term is used to remove ownership from purchased property, but I was unsure who to ask. I got lucky.:)
F4SE IS fully usable and if you think about it, you gave the reason yourself - it is the other mods, causing the problem, until they get updated.
A new machine in your car isn't the problem, if you can't get new tires .... It is somehow funny, how many people are using F4SE with no problems, no matter if FO4 is downgraded or updated to Next Gen.
I have read a lot of posts here and almost all of the people having problems with CTDs, black screens or whatever the outcome is, are either using mods that haven't been updated yet, are launching the game through a mod-loader, instead the f4se_loaeder.exe, or both.
On the other hand, I have a bunch of mails in inbox, like from that one guy that replied to one of my "how to" on here, about what people did before they have read it and what they changed top get the game to work again and all of those message are proving what I wrote in the colum above, exept for that one guy, that was really unlucky cause his partly faulty gfx-card was the cause.
I really whished, that all people would put their egos aside, install their system properly, withouth being "wise", regard what Grote has posted nearly countless times, especially when it comes to the stickys, AV / Defender, or when it comes to the installation path of Steam and therefore FO4, but too many of them seem to have a problem with that and at the end, prefer to complain, throw accusations or even insults.
So many people are using Vortex, but they aren't doing it the right way, be it to configure and use the plugins the right way or even deploying the mods .... I am really surprised, that ianpatt is still providing this mod at all.
This may be a dumb question that I could probably take 30 seconds to figure out, but is the most recent F4SE (7.2) compatible with anything after the Next Gen update 1.10.980 (1.10.980, and 1.10.984)? Or is it only compatible with 1.10.984, meaning if I wanted to remain on 1.10.980 until all/ most mods are updated to be compatible with the newest version, I would need to use F4SE v7.1?
It's odd. I have installed the latest F4SE, and the FO4 is up to date. I try to run from the f4se_loader.exe; my screens go black for about 15-20 sec, then *POOF* nothing, back to the desktop. I tried running from Steam, and I got the same result. Now, the odd part..... If I delete or rename the Fallout4 folder in Documents/my games/ (it contains the save folder, logs, and .ini files), it will load to a tiny window running the f4se_loader.exe. If I run from Steam, it will ask me to select resolution options and then Exit. f4se_loader.exe will work on the full screen for me and recreate the Fallout4 folder with the saves. I'm working through my list of Mods to see which works and which doesn't, but it's a PITA having to do the above dance every other time... I don't have MCM installed, but I did find an MCM folder hanging out; I canned it, but I am still getting the black screen shuffle, lol
Try running your game in mo2 or vortex. The f4se_loader. exe won't work for me on desktop but will on mo2, using the same loader....slow but it works. make sure any patches you have running are before the update or they won't work.
I created a pretty heavy modlist of around 300 mods and use many plugin heavy mods. For some reason I was getting heavy and small stutters at select parts of the map, making the game unplayable. I tried isolating a mod to no avail. It seems the next-gen update has broken performance of plugin heavy mods somehow? If anyone's experiencing the same thing let me know because otherwise I'm going to go crazy. This wasn't the case before the next gen update.
The primary tool for fallout4 is no longer available. Quick launch has reverted to the game's executable. What does it mean and how do i fix? I tried to delete all mods and vortex but is not working. There is a way to reset vortex?
I have no idea what you mean by "jumps out of range". If you are getting an error message, copy/paste it in to your response. If this is gameplay behavior, it is most likely due to another mod you have installed that uses F4SE.
Upon launching FO4 through f4se launcher, it seems to always crash within 3-4 seconds of launch a few times, then works afterwards. Is there any reason for this? I have a relatively small load order that is 100% correct per all of the mod author's pages. The only other big mod im running with F4SE is SS2. Any ideas?
can anyone help me I'm only using the load loading time fix which have been tag that work in the next gen update and follow all the instructions of the installations but I'm getting this error "You are using Fallout version 1.10.980, which is out of date and incompatible with this version of F4SE. Update to the latest version."
1.10.984 is the latest version of the game, and it fixes some major problems in 980. There is no reason to be on that version of the game. Make sure you have enabled updates in Steam, or try verifying your local files.
To those having trouble after moving the Depot files into the game directory and using your 1.10.163 script extender loader and encountering a black screen into crash. Check your fallout directory DATA folder in case it creates another Data subfolder. If so, delete the aforementioned "cc" files (creation club) from said subfolder, and then copy the remaining files and folders and paste them back into your MAIN AKA THE FIRST Data folder. Replace files as needed, delete the Data SUBFOLDER (The one you just copied from) and reattempt to run Fallout through your F4SE loader. I did this and i was able to start up the game and begin a new save file. . I did not figure this out, this revelation was from johncrighton1812 on a youtube comment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDH0iLo6NyE&t=29s (The video in question). If this fixed your game please like their comment as did I.
3822 comments
Thank you for all of the support! I assume people would rather have me working on the update than making individual responses, but in general thanks for the nice words and support.
2024-04-27: The first step of the update process is done, doing a first pass at updating all of the addresses for the new version of the game. Another long step begins now, validating the addresses and seeing if there were any structure layout changes. This would not benefit from external testing.
2024-04-28: Building regression tests for games on this engine is painful. To progress on something else that needs work before release, I'm porting over the plugin manager changes and loader changes from SKSE64 and SFSE. This modernizes plugin version detection, and minimizes the virus scanner false positive issues by using a single loader executable that doesn't need to change with each version.
2024-04-29: Secondary preloaders and f4se_steam_loader.dll are no longer needed. Plugins now use the declarative version system from SKSE64/SFSE. Plugin manager is back up and running. Struct comparison between the two versions continues, but I haven't found anything interesting that changed so far. If the next session (not necessarily tomorrow) keeps finding nothing, I'll probably put up a prerelease version to get test results.
2024-04-30: I've put up a very early build so that mod developers can test their plugins and mods against 1.10.980. I appreciate feedback, but right now I can only realistically handle focused feedback from mod developers who know how their scripts work. Reports like "when I call GetWaterType on this specific cell with editor ID [whatever] it returns the wrong result" would be ideal, but I'll be doing investigation as needed.
2024-05-01: Investigating feedback. 1.10.980 itself has some major stability problems that I can reproduce with just vanilla content, so there's probably (hopefully) going to be a follow-up patch soon. Updating for that will not take anywhere near as long as 1.10.980. The unstable base makes finding problems in my code more difficult than it should be.
2024-05-02: A few fixes from mod author reports and requests. Let's see what happens if I widen the audience a bit.
2024-05-03: Apart from the usual misdirected complaints about other people needing to update their mods (expected), things seem pretty good so far. If you can make make the game crash with a single mod, have QA-style repro steps, and the problem doesn't happen when being run without the loader, please let me know.
2024-05-04: Fixed GetResourceLibraryProcAddress - if you are a plugin author trying to update your plugin, that plugin has additional exported addresses, and the plugin loader is doing something weird with it, this will fix the problem. Fixed SplineUtils::ConnectSpline. Most of the updates going forward are going to be very uninteresting, with me just watching the forums and other places to see if people are crashing in a way that isn't caused by the vanilla game, maybe doing small fixes like mentioned earlier. Once I find something seriously wrong or something that is impacting plugin authors then I'll put out a new version with the fixes.
2024-05-10: Bethesda has announced a hotfix patch that will be released on the 13th. This, as is normal, will break things, but nowhere near as badly as the 1.10.980 update. I'll have an update out as soon as possible to support the patch. Hopefully some of the vanilla crashes will be fixed.
2024-05-13: Hotfix released, should have an update after lunch. Seems stable aside from some plugins with bad version data. I am contacting the authors where possible.
2024-05-20: Currently it doesn't appear that any updates to F4SE are needed. Still observing plugin stability.
All native code plugins (.dlls) need to be updated by their creators for 1.10.980. Old native code plugins not loading is not a problem with F4SE. The Starfield loader has given Windows Defender problems in the past. This is a false positive.
The MCM beta 1.40 has incorrect version data and crashes on startup with 1.10.984. An update is available.
Better Console also has bad version data and crashes on startup with 1.10.984.
Firstly, you'll need this guide.
https://framedsc.com/GeneralGuides/steam_update_guide.htm
Follow it cause you need to learn how to download the repositories and how to open the steam console. Once you got that down you have to download these and install them in order replacer EVERYTHING whenever it is needed.
download_depot 377160 377162 5847529232406005096
download_depot 377160 377161 7497069378349273908
download_depot 377160 377163 5819088023757897745
download_depot 377160 377164 2178106366609958945
download_depot 377160 435870 1691678129192680960
download_depot 377160 435871 5106118861901111234
download_depot 377160 435880 1255562923187931216
(Keep in mind that you are re-downloading the game from what has been saved in STEAMDB, do it one by one, don't hog your download speed by trying to do it all at once. File size should be about 22-ish GBs once you have everything. Once again FOLLOW the guide so you know where the repos will be downloaded and where / how you'll want to move them around.)
Once that is done you have to delete most new files from the creation club that will be in your DATA, these are the culprits that will cause your game to crash since Bethesda updated them in masse I can't be sure which one is safe to keep and which one isn't, so for now it is best to put them in a Back Up folder. Now, anything that has "ccBG" at the beginning of its name in the DATA folder should be safe to remove, that is the code they give to creation club content, however, if you use mods, you probably already know that these are not very much compatible with anything extra from nexus you add to the game.
Once you have all that done REMEMBER to play the game in offline mode / to shut off wi-fi on your steam deck (as is my case) or to delete any manifesto that will force the game to update, cause it will break everything again. Once you have everything I stated done you can probably re-install the current (non-updated) version of the Script Extender and start playing. I've not encountered any crashes or data corruptions. Save games seem clean enough that I have no missing ESP / ESL / Meshes / Textures. If anything goes wrong or you don't feel confident enough that this won't screw your fallout 4 install folder then don't try it. For MO2 this should be safe enough since mods are kept separately from the game elsewhere.
@ianpatt if you could pin this so people know not to bother you it would be great.
download_depot 377160 377161 7497069378349273908
download_depot 377160 377162 5847529232406005096
download_depot 377160 377163 5819088023757897745
download_depot 377160 377168 7717372852115364102
download_depot 377160 435870 1691678129192680960
download_depot 377160 435875 2953236065717816833
download_depot 377160 435880 1255562923187931216
download_depot 377160 377161 7497069378349273908
download_depot 377160 377162 5847529232406005096
download_depot 377160 377163 5819088023757897745
download_depot 377160 393882 7540680803954664080
download_depot 377160 435870 1691678129192680960
download_depot 377160 435878 8276750634369029613
download_depot 377160 435880 1255562923187931216
download_depot 377160 377162 5847529232406005096
download_depot 377160 377161 7497069378349273908
download_depot 377160 377163 5819088023757897745
download_depot 377160 377165 7549549550652702123
download_depot 377160 435870 1691678129192680960
download_depot 377160 435872 5590419866095647350
download_depot 377160 435880 1255562923187931216
download_depot 377160 377161 7497069378349273908
download_depot 377160 377162 5847529232406005096
download_depot 377160 377163 5819088023757897745
download_depot 377160 393882 7540680803954664080
download_depot 377160 435870 1691678129192680960
download_depot 377160 435878 8276750634369029613
download_depot 377160 435880 1255562923187931216
download_depot 377160 377161 7497069378349273908
download_depot 377160 377162 5847529232406005096
download_depot 377160 377163 5819088023757897745
download_depot 377160 393882 7540680803954664080
download_depot 377160 435870 1691678129192680960
download_depot 377160 435878 8276750634369029613
download_depot 377160 435880 1255562923187931216
download_depot 377160 377162 5847529232406005096
download_depot 377160 377161 7497069378349273908
download_depot 377160 377163 5819088023757897745
download_depot 377160 377164 2178106366609958945
download_depot 377160 435870 1691678129192680960
download_depot 377160 435871 5106118861901111234
download_depot 377160 435880 1255562923187931216
download_depot 377160 435882 8482181819175811242
download_depot 377160 480631 6588493486198824788
download_depot 377160 393885 5000262035721758737
download_depot 377160 480630 5527412439359349504
download_depot 377160 393895 7677765994120765493
download_depot 377160 377161 7497069378349273908 (Fallout 4 content_a)
download_depot 377160 377162 5847529232406005096 (Fallout 4 exe)
download_depot 377160 377163 5819088023757897745 (Fallout 4 content_b)
download_depot 377160 377164 2178106366609958945 (Fallout 4 english)
download_depot 377160 435870 1691678129192680960 (Fallout 4 - Automatron)
download_depot 377160 435871 5106118861901111234 (Fallout 4 - Automatron English)
download_depot 377160 435880 1255562923187931216 (Fallout 4 - Wasteland Workshop)
The following were not added because there were no recent depot for it so I would assume the update didn't touch it:
Far Harbor
Contraptions Workshop
Vault-tec Workshop
Nuka-World
Hi-res Pack
Для русскоговорящих ниже манифесты для загрузки:
download_depot 377160 377161 7497069378349273908
download_depot 377160 377162 5847529232406005096
download_depot 377160 377163 5819088023757897745
download_depot 377160 393881 4735225695214536532
download_depot 377160 435870 1691678129192680960
download_depot 377160 435877 2675794883952625475
download_depot 377160 435880 1255562923187931216
download_depot 377160 377161 7497069378349273908
download_depot 377160 377162 5847529232406005096
download_depot 377160 377163 5819088023757897745
download_depot 377160 393881 4735225695214536532
download_depot 377160 435870 1691678129192680960
download_depot 377160 435877 2675794883952625475
download_depot 377160 435881 1207717296920736193
download_depot 377160 435888 2814340383581262374
download_depot 377160 480631 6588493486198824788
download_depot 377160 393891 631542034352937768
download_depot 377160 490650 4873048792354485093
download_depot 377160 393899 1428451409051936353
and delete all "ccBG*" files in Data folder
Make sure you donload the version released before April 25 !
I also believe you'll have to download your language depots in addition to the standard packages.
There's likely 1 of 2 issues causing this for you
1) steam_api64.dll
2) Your deployed mods
Follow these steps:
1) Open your Mod Manager and Purge your mods (don't worry this doesn't delete all the mods you downloaded)
-- Also, if you used Vortex or MO2 to install F4SE (which you shouldn't) disable it in your mod manager!!!
-- Also, if you installed the unofficial FO4 Patch manually, you're gonna need to uninstall that as well
2) Go to your Fallout 4 install directory and make sure all the F4SE files are gone, don't forget the stuff in the \Data folder and \Data\F4SE
--Also, go in to your DATA directory and look for any files that start with ccBG and DELETE those files if you haven't already
Alternatively, you can make a Backup folder and copypasta them there and then delete, your choice
3) MANUALLY install F4SE
4) Run the game from your mod manager or from the f4se launcher, your choice.
-- Make sure that you can load your save, it's gonna whine at you about the missing mods, fo'getaboutit
If you can start the game and load your save, even with the bitching, ALT F4
5) Now you can go back in your mod manager and REDEPLOY your mods
If it's still not working, you're going to need a clean copy of the steam_api64.dll from 04/16/2024
Don't ask me where to get one
Copy in the steam_api64.dll in to the ROOT of your Fallout 4 installation before continuing with steps 3 and on above
If this still didn't work for you, well, there may be no hope for you until F4SE gets updated...
I mean, they are altering files on my computer against my wishes and without permissions after all.
Is there something hidden in the Eula that gives them admin rights on my computer??
Just wondering...
Also....
Is there a comprehensive list of all/most of the mods that depend on F4SE.
That would be a great assist.
We don't live in 2004 nay more where patches come on demo disks or from an hour manually downloading it via dial up.
As to whether or not it's legal? Yea it's legal.
Is it annoying when the patches are s#*!? Yes to that too.
You granted permission for files to be installed on your computer when you:
A. Installed Steam
B. Purchased a game, and
C. installed that game on your computer
If you would like files to not be installed on your computer automatically it is up to you to disable automatic updates as they come automatically enabled when steam is installed.
Nothing has admin rights by default, if you require admin rights to install files on your computer, I would assume that you are not the system admin, if so check with the system admin, if not then nothing inherently requires admin rights to install files on your computer. If you are launching steam as a system administrator, that is where steam is getting admin rights from.
In short, yes, it is completely legal for Bethesda to update any game they created at any time for any reason, and it is legal for steam or other platforms to install the updates when they become available. If you do not like this, you are welcome to try and find an option that does not include automatic updating features.
As far as a list of mods that require F4SE, you may check the requirements tab on the description page of this mod, however that is not guaranteed to include every mod that requires F4SE nor does it guarantee that every listed mod is up-to-date. If a mod requires F4SE it will state that on its download page. If the mod does not list F4SE as a requirement, but does require it, that is an issue that should be presented to that mod author, it is not an issue related to F4SE itself.
The last two 'updates' that I 'received' were done while I was online, quietly, in the background, without notification of any sort.
The first of these literally destroyed the game. The second came a day after I had jumped through all the hoops Steam offered to undo the previous update, and it once again destroyed my new partially working setup and inserted a busload of Cash Club material to boot. It is currently unplayable and I'm considering removing it altogether, after spending the last few days online searching for a remedy. Since F4SE is not fully usable until all the mod authors update the affected mods, I first tried to run the game without mods that used the extender, and ended up removing everything. At that point I realized the game was simply broken. That was why I asked about the stealth updates, because in my case, that was exactly what they were and they were malicious. I was hoping that the law would have some sane means of wrist-slapping Steam at least, for causing malicious alterations to files on my machine without consent. Hope springs eternal. Then I thought it was probably some legalese in the Eula; some undecipherable part of the purchase agreement or whatever legal term is used to remove ownership from purchased property, but I was unsure who to ask. I got lucky.:)
This was entirely enlightening. Thanks again.
A new machine in your car isn't the problem, if you can't get new tires .... It is somehow funny, how many people are using F4SE with no problems, no matter if FO4 is downgraded or updated to Next Gen.
I have read a lot of posts here and almost all of the people having problems with CTDs, black screens or whatever the outcome is, are either using mods that haven't been updated yet, are launching the game through a mod-loader, instead the f4se_loaeder.exe, or both.
On the other hand, I have a bunch of mails in inbox, like from that one guy that replied to one of my "how to" on here, about what people did before they have read it and what they changed top get the game to work again and all of those message are proving what I wrote in the colum above, exept for that one guy, that was really unlucky cause his partly faulty gfx-card was the cause.
I really whished, that all people would put their egos aside, install their system properly, withouth being "wise", regard what Grote has posted nearly countless times, especially when it comes to the stickys, AV / Defender, or when it comes to the installation path of Steam and therefore FO4, but too many of them seem to have a problem with that and at the end, prefer to complain, throw accusations or even insults.
So many people are using Vortex, but they aren't doing it the right way, be it to configure and use the plugins the right way or even deploying the mods .... I am really surprised, that ianpatt is still providing this mod at all.
Upon launching FO4 through f4se launcher, it seems to always crash within 3-4 seconds of launch a few times, then works afterwards. Is there any reason for this? I have a relatively small load order that is 100% correct per all of the mod author's pages. The only other big mod im running with F4SE is SS2. Any ideas?
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I did not figure this out, this revelation was from johncrighton1812 on a youtube comment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDH0iLo6NyE&t=29s (The video in question). If this fixed your game please like their comment as did I.