Any chance you could combine these two mods into one mod file so it would match the current DND 2024 witch bolt? Initial action cast is 2d12 with 1d12 up casting. Concentration cast is bonus action and damage is always 1d12.
Would it be possible to make it so that casting witch bolt takes an action an a bonus action so that you can't use witch bolt and activate it? Getting 2d12 damage for such a low level spell in one turn seems kinda OP imo. Especially with the wet status effect doubling damage. So with wet status effect that's 4-48 damage with a level one spell slot and no upcasting lol. Or maybe a general nerf could work too. Like using a d6 instead.
Can you please make a version with subsequent activations completely removed? I'd love it to be one-off single cast with no no concentration and no other gimmicks.
I truly don't understand mods like this, it fundamentally changes the way the spell works. The point is having guaranteed damage on a target, there is no save for the continual uninterruptible damage of the spell. And for a first level slot it, dealing a free d12 or more of lightning damage with no to hit is insane. Making it a bonus action allows you to cast another leveled spell. So at level 1, a spellcaster is dealing 2d12+2d8 with a Chromatic orb that then makes a lightning surface for even more damage, and at 5th level, that is 5d12 as a bonus action, for 9 rounds without having to roll a hit plus whatever other 3rd level spell you want to cast. With Haste casted on yourself, you can cast this at 3rd level, on subsequent turns you can do the following. 5d12 Witch Bolt + 4d10 Firebolt/Eldritch Blast, If you are out of slots. You could use Chromatic Orb if you have the slots to spend. With cantrips, you are dealing over 50 damage on average per turn.
Compare that to a 5th level Fighter with Haste. They get 7 attacks with action surge and two weapon fighting, while also taking the dual-wielder feat so they can use two Longswords. This is 7d8, if they go Battlemaster they can spend ALL of their resources for another 5d8, for a total of 12d8 damage, averaging around the same as the spellcasting above, if we factor in 20 strength (which isn't possible to do with elixirs with this setup) that is another 35 damage if all 7 attacks hit, bringing the average up to over 80 if you have 100% hit rate. But the difference being the Fighter has to fully invest into this single round of combat, burning everything while also needing to hit the attacks. After the first turn, the Fighter's damage drops down to 5d8 per turn which needs to hit, and is still less damage than the FREE Witch Bolt damage. This utterly destroys the balance of the game, you might as well just install a cheat menu IMO, it's probably more simple
This mod has the same energy as people who come to a TTRPG table with some broken homebrew abilities that make no sense or have had no effort of being balanced.
1. The bonus action version was done on request and not my idea. 2. The damage done by activating witchbolt does not scale up when upcasted, only the initial casting of witchbolt gets upcasted, which means your complaint about dealing 5d12 lightning damage per round as a bonus action is just nonsense. :)
First... I really don't understand the point of you policing the way other people enjoy their single player experience. This isn't the same as sitting down at a table with other people with some broken homebrew blah blah blah a bit.
Second, the damage isn't "uninterruptable." You're concentrating on the spell. Your concentration can be disrupted. I agree that it is a very slot efficient first level spell and that that probably doesn't need to change, but, again, you're policing other people's single player experience for some reason I can't fathom... Anyway, you also seem to assume the bonus action damage is scaling with upcasts, but I'm fairly certain from having read the mod author's response to someone suggesting exactly that that it doesn't work that way. The original spell only scales the initial damage and nothing about the notes have indicated that the mod does any differently, so it's only ever 1d12 lightning damage as a bonus action.
So, a more fair sustained damage comparison is 1d12 (Witchbolt) + 3d10 (Eldritch Blast) + 15 (Agonizing Blast). We'll assume Warlock with Agonizing Blast and Spell Sniper, but not level 17 because that requires another mod. 5e assumes a 65% chance to hit iirc and since I don't know the average chance to hit in BG3, I'll use that. So, 6.5 + .55(16.5) + .1(33) + .65(15) = 28.625 average damage per round after 1 round of setup. The Fighter has 3 attacks and, if this is about damage, will be using a pair of hand crossbows with Sharpshooter and the Archery Fighting Style to make 3 attacks and a bonus action attack for 4d6 + 55. Sharpshooter imposes a -5, but Archery gives a +2 for a net -3. So, the Fighter doing this has a 50% hit chance and does .45(14) + .05(28) + .5(55) = 35.2 average damage. The Fighter still has another feat and hasn't picked a subclass or second Fighting Style yet. So, while Champion sucks, it can bring the crit rate in line with our Warlock's for a slight boost with no resource expenditure if we're interested in sustain. Same with Two-Weapon Fighting style for a slight boost. Also, it's not using its concentration yet, so it could pick up hex for another .45(14) + .05(28) = 7.7 average damage with its feat.
It makes witchbolt good. Maybe a little too good for a first level slot as I've already said (though certainly not game breaking), but, one more time with feeling, why are you so interested in policing other people's single player experience?
edit: I removed Hex from the Warlock example because that would be concentrating on two things at once. Hex would have been better damage, but then we're not using Witchbolt and a Dragon Sorcerer with Firebolt is less average damage than a Warlock with Agonizing Eldritch Blast.
It's really simple if you just relax and don't try to be so anal about what other people do in their own free time.
If we remove you from this interaction, we get this:
*Person playing BG3* "Man, I sure do wish Witchbolt was a bit different."
*enter modding tools* "Oh hey, I can make Witchbolt do what I was thinking of, all without affecting anybody else!"
*enter Nexus existing* "Oh hey, I can share this with other people! It'd be really cool if anyone else wanted Witchbolt to be different like me!"
*enter niche group of people who did, in fact, want Witchbolt to just be a zap and blast single target spell that you are, clearly, not a part of* "Yay! Thanks for making this for free and sharing it with us!"
-------------------------------------------------------------- Now, let's add you back in:
*nothing meaningful changes* "I'm going to make a bunch of personal assumptions about how you play DnD and interact with others because you made a mod that changes how ONE spell works, and you DARED to upload it for FREE!
I can't believe you would ruin BG3's perfected balance simply because you wanted to do something your own way using tools Larian created and encouraged the use of to ensure players could enjoy their adventure their own way! Plus, you clearly didn't consider using this min-maxed and incredibly thorough combination of effects and interactions that all casual players should be aware of and balance all their fun homebrew mod changes around!" --------------------------------------------------------------
Why talk this way to others? Mate, I truly believe you're not doing this to be malicious or hurt anyone, but if you want to share your knowledge, why not phrase it differently?
"Hey, this is a really cool change to Witchbolt! I hope you're having fun blasting nerds like a fantasy Palpatine! Have you considered also making a whole new level 1 lightning cantrip? I'd be stoked to see that, personally! If you'd like to make sure it's balanced, here's some math to help with that!
*your explanation*
For anyone who wants to use vanilla Witchbolt, but feels it's not as effective, here's some tips on making it work better for you!
*your explanation*
Cheers! Hope this helped someone, and again, thanks for the mod! Great work!"
See how much more friendly you would come across? Not to mention, you'd be much more likely to actually deliver on the point you're trying to make, while also being genuinely helpful for new players and people who aren't sure on how use Witchbolt effectively by typical tabletop rulesets.
I'm not trying to change you on a personal level in some mod forum comments section, but I can tell this game and its balance means a lot to you based on how you've done such a thorough breakdown for us in your post. You could convey that in a much less aggressive and accusatory manner if you just take a lil breather before hitting post.
From a Gamer: If you don't want to use it - don't. It's a single player game, the purpose is to have fun, period.
From a DM: The purpose of all games is to have fun, that's why Homebrew is so huge. If I went 100% RAW, there's be significantly less smiles
Playing BG3 - I went "Hm.... Witch Bolt's such a cool spell. Wonder if someone made a bonus Action follow up for it" Lo & Behold: Here it is! Exactly what I was hoping for to enhance my playing experience in a single player game.
DM (5e & PF2e) for about 5 years. My players generally don't take Witch Bolt - because even if it is a mathematically "solid" option for guaranteed single target damage. That's boring. Great I hit!.... so for the next x of my turns - pretty much all I'm doing is walking around and saying "Another!"
I've let a player homebrew to Use Action to guaranteed deal the full damage or use bonus action to attempt a "remaining tether" hit (another attack roll and a d8) which freed up his action, the damage would lower each bonus (D8->d6->d4) unless you "Recharged" it with an action. That was my method to enhance it while trying to keep balanced in a 6-Player game (single player game so I'm 100% on board with this method). Suddenly this spell started getting used pretty regularly. Gave them options and provided a "something you can do with your bonus action" while letting them choose "do I want to use my action to guarantee dmg and re-up my bolt, or use one of my other spells from my huge list"
Heck, that's another issue of many classes/builds having a "What do I do with my bonus action? I can only move and do 1 thing per turn"
*I do know there's some DM's that are big on sticking to and by the rules. I prefer to go with what will be fun while doing my best to keep balance. Heck, the DM Guide even has a section titled "Ignoring the Dice" (Chapter 8: The Role of dice)
so... thinking about it, the bonus action version seems a bit too strong for a first level slot. is it possible to have the activation be a bonus action only for an upcast version? its appeal as a first level spell is slot efficiency since you can theoretically get a lot of damage out of a single spell slot given time. i think adding action efficiency on top probably deserves at least a second level slot. but that's just my 2¢.
Interesting idea. It kinda puts the spell out of place though since no spells actually change their action cost when upcasted. It would be awkward to do to since you've to create two separate instances of activating witchbolt.
yeah, i figured it might be awkward to implement in BG3, but i feel like changing different aspects of the spell when upcast is underused design space in tabletop.
edit: also, i'm probably wrong about it being too strong. hex + eldritch blast is a better use of your concentration, only requires your bonus action occasionally, and can last you all day. it's an improvement on witchbolt and gives casters something to do with their bonus action if they really want it.
Thank you. So happy to hear that. This is actually just a test mod. I plan on creating a complete rebalance of every upcastable damage spell in the game. Since when I reach level 5, I find myself just casting lightning bolt and fireball. They're way too OP compared to every other damage dealing spell in the game. A level 3 chromatic orb for instance deals a measly 4d8 (18 avg damage) and hits only one enemy, lightning bolt hits multiple enemies and deals 8d6 (28 avg damage).
33 comments
I would like the permission to use this mod as a base for a Witchbolt (Mult-Bolt) mod.
Compare that to a 5th level Fighter with Haste. They get 7 attacks with action surge and two weapon fighting, while also taking the dual-wielder feat so they can use two Longswords. This is 7d8, if they go Battlemaster they can spend ALL of their resources for another 5d8, for a total of 12d8 damage, averaging around the same as the spellcasting above, if we factor in 20 strength (which isn't possible to do with elixirs with this setup) that is another 35 damage if all 7 attacks hit, bringing the average up to over 80 if you have 100% hit rate. But the difference being the Fighter has to fully invest into this single round of combat, burning everything while also needing to hit the attacks. After the first turn, the Fighter's damage drops down to 5d8 per turn which needs to hit, and is still less damage than the FREE Witch Bolt damage. This utterly destroys the balance of the game, you might as well just install a cheat menu IMO, it's probably more simple
This mod has the same energy as people who come to a TTRPG table with some broken homebrew abilities that make no sense or have had no effort of being balanced.
2. The damage done by activating witchbolt does not scale up when upcasted, only the initial casting of witchbolt gets upcasted, which means your complaint about dealing 5d12 lightning damage per round as a bonus action is just nonsense. :)
Second, the damage isn't "uninterruptable." You're concentrating on the spell. Your concentration can be disrupted. I agree that it is a very slot efficient first level spell and that that probably doesn't need to change, but, again, you're policing other people's single player experience for some reason I can't fathom... Anyway, you also seem to assume the bonus action damage is scaling with upcasts, but I'm fairly certain from having read the mod author's response to someone suggesting exactly that that it doesn't work that way. The original spell only scales the initial damage and nothing about the notes have indicated that the mod does any differently, so it's only ever 1d12 lightning damage as a bonus action.
So, a more fair sustained damage comparison is 1d12 (Witchbolt) + 3d10 (Eldritch Blast) + 15 (Agonizing Blast). We'll assume Warlock with Agonizing Blast and Spell Sniper, but not level 17 because that requires another mod. 5e assumes a 65% chance to hit iirc and since I don't know the average chance to hit in BG3, I'll use that. So, 6.5 + .55(16.5) + .1(33) + .65(15) = 28.625 average damage per round after 1 round of setup. The Fighter has 3 attacks and, if this is about damage, will be using a pair of hand crossbows with Sharpshooter and the Archery Fighting Style to make 3 attacks and a bonus action attack for 4d6 + 55. Sharpshooter imposes a -5, but Archery gives a +2 for a net -3. So, the Fighter doing this has a 50% hit chance and does .45(14) + .05(28) + .5(55) = 35.2 average damage. The Fighter still has another feat and hasn't picked a subclass or second Fighting Style yet. So, while Champion sucks, it can bring the crit rate in line with our Warlock's for a slight boost with no resource expenditure if we're interested in sustain. Same with Two-Weapon Fighting style for a slight boost. Also, it's not using its concentration yet, so it could pick up hex for another .45(14) + .05(28) = 7.7 average damage with its feat.
It makes witchbolt good. Maybe a little too good for a first level slot as I've already said (though certainly not game breaking), but, one more time with feeling, why are you so interested in policing other people's single player experience?
edit: I removed Hex from the Warlock example because that would be concentrating on two things at once. Hex would have been better damage, but then we're not using Witchbolt and a Dragon Sorcerer with Firebolt is less average damage than a Warlock with Agonizing Eldritch Blast.
If we remove you from this interaction, we get this:
*Person playing BG3*
"Man, I sure do wish Witchbolt was a bit different."
*enter modding tools*
"Oh hey, I can make Witchbolt do what I was thinking of, all without affecting anybody else!"
*enter Nexus existing*
"Oh hey, I can share this with other people! It'd be really cool if anyone else wanted Witchbolt to be different like me!"
*enter niche group of people who did, in fact, want Witchbolt to just be a zap and blast single target spell that you are, clearly, not a part of*
"Yay! Thanks for making this for free and sharing it with us!"
--------------------------------------------------------------
Now, let's add you back in:
*nothing meaningful changes*
"I'm going to make a bunch of personal assumptions about how you play DnD and interact with others because you made a mod that changes how ONE spell works, and you DARED to upload it for FREE!
I can't believe you would ruin BG3's perfected balance simply because you wanted to do something your own way using tools Larian created and encouraged the use of to ensure players could enjoy their adventure their own way! Plus, you clearly didn't consider using this min-maxed and incredibly thorough combination of effects and interactions that all casual players should be aware of and balance all their fun homebrew mod changes around!"
--------------------------------------------------------------
Why talk this way to others?
Mate, I truly believe you're not doing this to be malicious or hurt anyone, but if you want to share your knowledge, why not phrase it differently?
"Hey, this is a really cool change to Witchbolt! I hope you're having fun blasting nerds like a fantasy Palpatine! Have you considered also making a whole new level 1 lightning cantrip? I'd be stoked to see that, personally! If you'd like to make sure it's balanced, here's some math to help with that!
*your explanation*
For anyone who wants to use vanilla Witchbolt, but feels it's not as effective, here's some tips on making it work better for you!
*your explanation*
Cheers! Hope this helped someone, and again, thanks for the mod! Great work!"
See how much more friendly you would come across?
Not to mention, you'd be much more likely to actually deliver on the point you're trying to make, while also being genuinely helpful for new players and people who aren't sure on how use Witchbolt effectively by typical tabletop rulesets.
I'm not trying to change you on a personal level in some mod forum comments section, but I can tell this game and its balance means a lot to you based on how you've done such a thorough breakdown for us in your post. You could convey that in a much less aggressive and accusatory manner if you just take a lil breather before hitting post.
To the Grumblepants:
Playing BG3 - I went "Hm.... Witch Bolt's such a cool spell. Wonder if someone made a bonus Action follow up for it"
Lo & Behold: Here it is! Exactly what I was hoping for to enhance my playing experience in a single player game.
DM (5e & PF2e) for about 5 years. My players generally don't take Witch Bolt - because even if it is a mathematically "solid" option for guaranteed single target damage. That's boring.
Great I hit!.... so for the next x of my turns - pretty much all I'm doing is walking around and saying "Another!"
I've let a player homebrew to Use Action to guaranteed deal the full damage or use bonus action to attempt a "remaining tether" hit (another attack roll and a d8) which freed up his action, the damage would lower each bonus (D8->d6->d4) unless you "Recharged" it with an action. That was my method to enhance it while trying to keep balanced in a 6-Player game (single player game so I'm 100% on board with this method). Suddenly this spell started getting used pretty regularly. Gave them options and provided a "something you can do with your bonus action" while letting them choose "do I want to use my action to guarantee dmg and re-up my bolt, or use one of my other spells from my huge list"
Heck, that's another issue of many classes/builds having a "What do I do with my bonus action? I can only move and do 1 thing per turn"
*I do know there's some DM's that are big on sticking to and by the rules. I prefer to go with what will be fun while doing my best to keep balance. Heck, the DM Guide even has a section titled "Ignoring the Dice" (Chapter 8: The Role of dice)
stop crying b****, we all know you're using it in secret _|_
edit: also, i'm probably wrong about it being too strong. hex + eldritch blast is a better use of your concentration, only requires your bonus action occasionally, and can last you all day. it's an improvement on witchbolt and gives casters something to do with their bonus action if they really want it.