There was a cyclone a few hundreds miles and a mountain range away from where I live, yet it knocked out all the power. I don't have normal access to neither internet nor my PC (where I have all my stuff). So, I cannot look into issues reported here. I hope it all will get sorted out in a week.
A humble request to everyone who's going to post about how this mod got everything wrong. Please read the following Q&A, and post only if the answer is not already provided in the Q&A. This doesn't apply to constructive feedback, bug reports, and questions related to new/modified content. Thanks.
SPOILER WARNING: some Q&As are full of spoilers.
Will you ever do a version of this mod that would un-do the core improvements to Shadowheart's character arc?
I will only consider that if Larian re-considers her Selunite character arc and removes the damaging fanservice.
Are you a Christian fundamentalist?
I am as opposed to religion as one could be. I am a hardline atheist, a naturalist. My worldview is heavily influenced by folks like Sean Carroll, Roger Penrose, Brian Greene, Daniel Dennett, Varg Vikernes, Vegard Sverre Tveitan, etc. I despise social conservatism in all of its forms. I'd prefer a large properly formatted data file over a pretty flower.
Why do you hate poly relationship?
I do not hate poly relationship. I respect people of all orientations. From my perspective, the game does not portray polyamory; instead, it makes certain characters to approve Tav's chaotic sexual adventures in a very blunt and therefore disrespectful manner. Yes, they can take part in one of them, but at the same time Tav can deny them that, and there is no repercussions after such an inappropriate behavior ("Fine, hog them all to yourself. Perhaps I'll find amusement elsewhere"). All other "scenes" are off-limits for Tav's partner, they literally sit in camp and wait while Tav rides a bear or a cambion. In real life, this kind of behavior happens in couples where one partner is far too dependent or attached to another, which allows this kind of exploitation. Other companions react to those things like real people, which proves the point, it is that bad. Yes, I relate that to real life experience, and this is exactly what it is. Besides, what makes all this look really shoehorned, is the simple fact that characters that are involved into this pseudo-"polyamory" do not show inclination to that until the 3rd act; and, as soon as the cutscenes are over, they get back to their monogamous romances like nothing has happened.
All that I wrote above applies to Selunite Shadowheart only. Read below for Sharran Shadowheart.
Why do you think this behavior makes sense for Sharran Shadowheart?
This has nothing to do with the "Selunites as Christians" trope, far from it. In fact, I'd prefer Shadowheart to abandon all goddesses, but unfortunately, the game makes her Selunite, and it'd be extremely hard to un-do that. My preferred way of dealing with this fanservice is Larian coming to their senses and just plainly removing all that, but that ain't gonna happen. The game is done, it is as it is. Also, I am not a big proponent of removing already made content from the game. So, I actually see how this all works for Shadowheart on Sharran path. Shadowheart explains intricacies of Sharran dogma, I don't want to repeat that again. The key take aways of their relationship are:
a) it can't be "true love" b) it has to be framed as service to Shar c) there is no attachment, partners are not bound by the relationship.
The c) comes in a very subtle way, Shadowheart says: "But you're clever, willing, and flexible... you needn't feel left wanting." What does this line mean? She admits that she can't give what Tav really wants. She cannot be their lifetime partner, as Shar always comes first. When she tells Tav, you need not feel left wanting, the only possible interpretation, she tells Tav to be flexible and willing, and to look elsewhere, to compensate for what she can't give. She promises to give all that she can, but she understands, this won't be enough. Shadowheart understands, she will anger Shar if she demonstrates a bond between her and Tav. As she said in act 1 banter, shor-term amusements are much less hassle. With this perspective, Sharran Shadowheart can't and won't stop Tav from climbing the bear, or hanging out with the cambion. This has nothing to do with the religion itself; it rather has to do with Shar's personality, as all gods of Toril do have personalities.
Why don't you make similar changes to Astarion?
I pity Astarion, but I don't have enough time to work on what I already planned for Shadowheart. If Baldur's Gate III actually turns to be the next Skyrim and stays for years to come, I would work on Astarion once I am done with my Shadowheart TODO list.
Why does Shadowheart refuse to join the drow twins at Sharess' with Tav/Durge?
While I agree that Shadowheart may be open to this, I think the way how it is portrayed in the game is very blunt and it damages her character. Leaving aside the whole brother/sister/incest narrative, I find the scene itself written for her Sharran arc. Her life was upended, she learned that everything was stolen from her, and she just started a new relationship with someone whom she trust for the first time in her life. She never had such a relationship before. She's very vulnerable in that period of her life. Just listen to her in the "shared future" camp dialog or "daughter tears" near the Selune Statue after finishing her quest. The drow twins intimacy scene destroys all that, not to mention drows praising her as a goddes after her "former" goddes banished her. I also can't explain why Larian decided to made her refuse the twins "at least the first time" (clearly, she's not fine to share Tav/Durge at that moment), but made her cool with Tav going there alone. As I already explained above, all this look like a plain abusive relationship, when one partner takes advantage and has it their way. The fact that everyone's smiling doesn't make it look better. Fun fact, the dialog abruptly ends if Shadowheart refuses to take part in the orgy, probably in an attempt to prevent the player from asking for a tet-a-tet with one of the drows. Yet, it is very possible to immediately start a new dialog and ***k one of the drows.
Why do you think saving parents is the best outcome for Shadowheart?
There are several hints in the game that I think are clues to the correct interpretation of the events in Chamber of Loss.
First, if Selunite Shadowheart goes in there alone, meaning Tav stays out of it, she always saves her parents. There's a special cutscene for that. This is a part of the "companions always do the right thing when they are left alone" thing that one can see if you try the same with Astarion and his ascension, or Gale with some shadow magic stuff in Moonrise towers. There are videos on YT.
Second, the "shared future" discussion in camp. She directly tells you about everything she wants. She basically describes her version of a happy ending, which is exactly the "retirement to a cottage with her parents" ending. She tells that she wants to save parents, retire to a farm, grow flowers and be surrounded by animals. She doesn't want to travel the sword coast in an attempt to forget her parents (of whom she remembers only how she tortured them) and somehow re-start her life.
Third, keywords. If you save the nymph in Sharess Caress, she will grant you a free session of a guided self-reflection of sorts. Almost every origin character has a keyword that represents their best outcome (weirdly though, except Lae'zel). Again, there are videos on YT. Shadowheart's word - "whole". When her father asks her to kill them, he says "we'll be at peace". At peace is another keyword. So, if you save her parents, she will tell you that she is now whole: she got her family back and found a true love (if you're romancing her). Therefore, saving parents is her best outcome. Another keyword, "at peace", pops up only if you force her into killing her parents.
Fourth, if parents are saved, she is much happier, even if Shar inflicts pain on her from time to time. There's mention in the epilogue that those events become less frequent over time, as if Shar lost her interest (oh really? Who would've though that a goddess known for complete disregard of her followers would lose interest in tormenting a former one). She keeps talking about her garden, about her pets, she tells you jokes that her father told her, and she also tells that she's happy because she lives with Tav on a farm. If parents are killed, she goes back to that many times, and every time her words are full of subtle regret. Not to mention clear signs of suffering because of that loss, the very thing that drives people to Shar. This makes me think that the ending where parents are killed is open-ended, and she may potentially go back to Shar.
Fifth, there's a trope that this wound somehow binds her soul to Shar. This is a baseless claim. Cosmology of Forgotten Realms are quite clear on that, gods claim souls of mortals based on whom they worshipped. Meaning, it doesn't matter how many curses one has, if they worship Selune, Selune has a claim on their soul. Therefore, this wound is just that, a source of physical pain and nothing more than that. Therefore, getting rid of it is basically a question of exchanging physical pain to actual loss and subsequent mental suffering. To me, the only reason to make the choice of killing her parents is if you role-play a narcissist that has zero compassion.
And finally, Shar path is the worst. There's a book, "Unclaimed". She tells a story about a woman that dedicated her life to Shar only to be abandoned by her. Shar abandoned her soul in the city of judgement, and never claimed her to "her embrace" (that sharrans speak about all the time). Then, there's a skeleton of a dark justiciar somewhere in Reithwin with a diary. This diary tells a story about losing everything after they stepped on the DJ path. Then there's epilogue. Sharran Shadowheart doesn't even try to hide her regret about how things ended, if the player romanced her and she broke with them to serve Shar. Her words are full of hints that she is still pretty much in love with Tav. She says, "It would have pained me to have you close, but not be able to dedicate myself to you in every waking moment".
What I did include besides the code, is all voice lines of all companions (and also Arnell's lines). So, if you think you can do better than me and find a better line for Shadowheart to say in Bhaal temple, you're very welcome to try (yes, I do mean that, I do want a better line)! Just remember, the line should be said in a suitable tone, and usually it is impossible to lip-sync something in the middle, so it should be something at the start of the line, while the tail can be cut. I will start putting there some readmes and guides on how to do things soon-ish.
{ "filename": "TUT_UpperDeck_PAD_FoundInfernalMetal.lsf", "h8c8f06cbg6f5fg4eb3g8f69gec0426541da6#2": "Strange metal. Might be valuable.", },
Each JSON block has a source file name which is an LSF file that contains a dialog resource. The key is the line handle concatenated with the symbol '#' and then with the line version from the loca file. You can use the handle to look up and extract the actual wem file in game's resources using ShinyHobo's BG3 modding multitool (google knows where to get it). You can use https://vgmstream.org/ to convert wems into wavs.
This is a public repo, so you should be able to download it without needing an account or anything. Please lmk if you have problems downloading it. I signed out of my account and I am able to download, FWIW.
P.S. Needless to say, Astarion didn't get the most lines. Contrary to the widespread belief, Shadowheart did, at least judging by file sizes and line count.
Some of Shadowheart's dialogue options are unvoiced(Her new lover greetings and her response after the first line for the "You've never had a relation quite like this,). Are these just not voiced yet, or is my game just not using them?
Hey there! Just wondering, does your mod do anything about the 'gifting Shadowheart the Shar Idol as a selunite and getting a kiss', currently? I did it yesterday with a halfling and all the kisses were misaligned, even though it was supposed to be fixed by patch 7... T.T
So, I wondering if it's like that because of this mod or some other mod, or Larian simply didn't do it properly.:(
Thank you so much for the new update. I saw the video and when I saw the Gith female, I was soooo happy. Thank you for including Giths. Not a lot of people do, sadly. So. Thank you. You have done a lot of hard work into this mod. Which is amazing, thank you; truly.
Hey folks, could you please tell me if this scene is any better than just "keep safe out there"? I know it isn't perfect, but it is really hard to find a suitable line...
If you're looking for a better line, maybe the one where she says "Even if I could have made it this far without you, I don't think I'd have wanted to" (v3ed74f063c6042dc83f6f034cb47c679_h5b0b4867g6249g4b7dgb81ag72f33a715668_3.wem). Or the line where she says something like "I couldn't bear to lose you. Not after everything" (v3ed74f063c6042dc83f6f034cb47c679_h73d13140g32d6g4b31g8acagd9bc0e41bbe0_3.wem).
There's also one where she just straight up yells "You can't die - not like this!" (v3ed74f063c6042dc83f6f034cb47c679_h595af932g549cg4870g904fg280d9a91a579.wem) or "I thought we were going to save each other" (v3ed74f063c6042dc83f6f034cb47c679_h0df638b8gc8d5g4524gbf48g1c2d5498ca54.wem) which could be used as a sort of initial reaction to Durge's death, right before Withers shows up to resurrect them.
I do think the new scene is an improvement. I guess if you're looking for feedback, maybe some music would be better? It is...a little quiet. Idk, just spitballing ideas here. Thanks for this!
Thanks for suggestions! Let me push back on these.
Even if I could have made it this far without you, I don't think I'd have wanted to
This one she says if you ask her how's she faring... Everyone knows it and I don't think it is a better fit...
I couldn't bear to lose you. Not after everything
This one is great. But she actually says a lot more: "Thank you, but I want you to refrain from foolish heroics - when the time comes, we will be entering a nest of vipers. I couldn't bear to lose you. Not after everything." To make it work with lip sync, well, no way I can make it work... I can cut out and hide a small portion of text at the beginning, or cut out few seconds in the middle. Here, we're looking at 10 seconds at least... It would be too much of an awkward pause.
You can't die - not like this!
She yells that when Tav is KIA. Um, also, I think she shouldn't yell in that scene... I mean, I can replace "It can't be true" with this one, but I think the existing line is fine. I don't like the second part, after Durge is resurrected.
I thought we were going to save each other
This line implies they aren't going to save each other which is odd. Also, this line is her last words when evil durge kills her. This line is barely audible... Also, it is very very sad and distressing. I never played that and never watched a yt video, but just listening to it makes me sick.
I think I will try to do something with the "couldn't bear to lose you" line. Thanks again!
This one she says if you ask her how's she faring... Everyone knows it and I don't think it is a better fit...
Conversely, isn't "Keep safe out there" part of her dismissal lines? So it's not that uncommon either and many people have probably heard it by now. But yeah idk how the lip sync thing works, you definitely know more about the technical aspects than I do. I thought you could just cut part of the line but I guess it's tied to the actual speaking animation. BG3 spaghetti code and all that. I can't think of any other line that would fit, but I'm not sure if "Keep safe out there" conveys the right...gravity of the sentiment? But this is just a personal nitpick so feel free to ignore.
She yells that when Tav is KIA. Um, also, I think she shouldn't yell in that scene... I mean, I can replace "It can't be true" with this one, but I think the existing line is fine. I don't like the second part, after Durge is resurrected.
Sorry for any confusion but I meant she would yell this during the part when Durge is still dead. She obviously wouldn't yell it after Withers had already resurrected them. But it's down to personal preference, really. The current one you have works fine too.
This line implies they aren't going to save each other which is odd
It moreso implies Shadowheart thought she failed to save Durge. Which in the context of Durge having just died, it would be appropriate. She thought they would save each other (Durge "saved" Shadowheart from Shar, but she couldn't save Durge from Bhaal literally killing them). In that brief moment when Durge is dead and before Withers shows up to resurrect them, she'd believe she failed. I hope I'm making sense?
Just my 2 golds, but sometimes saying less is more, I personally liked the "just stay safe out there, for me" a bit better. (But I also agree that the "I couldn't bear to lose you. Not after everything" linewould be the best by far, if only it was possible.
I swear once you figure out how to do the lip sync thing you'll be able to do some amazing things!
Conversely, isn't "Keep safe out there" part of her dismissal lines? So it's not that uncommon either and many people have probably heard it by now.
This is from her epilogue lines, something that she says to one of the origins, I believe you have to play as Karlach to get that line. It is very rare.
Sorry for any confusion but I meant she would yell this during the part when Durge is still dead. She obviously wouldn't yell it after Withers had already resurrected them. But it's down to personal preference, really. The current one you have works fine too.
I'm sorry I think I wasn't clear what I meant. I read what you said correctly. And I think we're in agreement on that one :)
It moreso implies Shadowheart thought she failed to save Durge. Which in the context of Durge having just died, it would be appropriate. She thought they would save each other (Durge "saved" Shadowheart from Shar, but she couldn't save Durge from Bhaal literally killing them). In that brief moment when Durge is dead and before Withers shows up to resurrect them, she'd believe she failed. I hope I'm making sense?
You're correct as long as you don't listen to the actual line. The text content is only half the story. The line should be said with the right voice and tone (which isn't true for the current lines I picked, unfortunately). I agree with you on the meaning, this line fits the narrative. The actual context of this line is, after the final battle Durge decided to subdue the brain, and the player chose "Kill her with the last kiss". Then Durge uses the power word to kill her, and that line is the last thing she said. It is barely audible and very distressing, it can't fit the scene...
After sleeping on the "I couldn't bear to lose you. Not after everything", I think I have few ideas to try...
I really want to hear her unique lines to the other origin chars one day, I just can't bring myself to play them (except Shadowheart ofcourse), especially not to romance her with them. I do wonder how many lines she has specifically for them though.
Well you'll have to forgive the confusion then because when you dismiss her back to camp, she'll literally say variations of "Take care of yourself out there" and "Stay safe out there" (word for word), so that's sort of the first thing I'm reminded by when she says "Keep safe out there", they're very similar.
The actual context of this line is, after the final battle Durge decided to subdue the brain, and the player chose "Kill her with the last kiss".
I'm aware of the actual context of the line, I've seen the evil ending. But I'm assuming that context would be lost if we're repurposing the line, since it's vague enough to give multiple interpretations. But again, that's a matter of opinion ofc.
Thanks for considering! I'll see if I can find any better lines.
In the game I just finished I also used Eralyne's Appearance Edit Enhanced to change Shadowheart's sloppy big goth shade to a light lid line when she changes her hair color, which felt fitting - in case any reader wants to steal the idea.
Just want to chime in to tell you thank you. I mean, there are minor things we can discuss, but you did a great job on polishing her character arc and portrayal. Highly appreciate that you are not being apologetic whatsoever.
idk if you know about this already but I seem to have gotten Wyll's banter with Shadowheart about werewolf cubs before I've even rescued her parents. I think it's been mentioned before but if not, could you possibly do something about that? Thanks.
I think this is correct. This banter happens in act 3 if Shadowheart is in relationship. The logic is, a) She is with someone b) Dame Aylin told her that her father is a lycanthrope (a lythari?) at the end of act 2 c) She may be a lycanthrope too (I still want to try and make it for real; Halsin mentions that wolves mate for life, while bears roam free; Shadowheart being a lycanthrope i.e. a wolf, you see where it goes)
Hence, Wyll has the full right to be a child minder for their werewolf cubs :)
Right, I posted this and then thought "well hang on she saw her dad was a lycanthrope in the vision" and unfortunately nexus doesn't let you delete comments.
Lot of... very charged comments lol. While I don't agree that it's completely out of character for Shadowheart, I do agree that Selunite Shadowheart for the most part, would prefer not to share. In fact I'm pretty sure that most of the companions by Act 3 don't want to share. The reason I don't completely agree is I could see Shadowheart potentially being up for fun with some courtesans with her partner as a one off thing (like how sometimes mono couples hire/find someone to let them try that fantasy). But, I digress. (Also not I'm not trying to say your view on it is wrong. In fact I agree if you try something with Halsin, or Mizora, that should be a no.)
I mainly wanted to know if it's safe/possible to install this mod mid-playthrough. Or at least while still in act one.
I could see Shadowheart potentially being up for fun with some courtesans with her partner as a one off thing
You know what, I agree with that. However, it shouldn't be as blunt as in the original game. And there should be no option to throw her out at the last moment (or, if that happens, she breaks up with Tav). I am thinking about adding a conversation about that. A rough script that I have in mind: after parents are saved, and approval is high enough (like 80+), Tav can talk to her in camp and bring this up (in their relationship dialog), and after some persuasion (a DC 15-ish skill check), if she agrees, only then they can go back to Sharess' and have fun. No druids, of course.
The reason why it is done the way it is now, I didn't know much about stuff back then, this was one of my first edits. I literally wasn't able to do anything more elaborate than plain denial. And frankly speaking, this plain denial is still much better than the blunt dialog in the original game...
(Also if I could get an answer on if it is safe to install mid-playthrough I would really appreciate it ♥)
My bad, missed that. Yes, it is 100% safe, as long as you don't save while in a dialog that is overwritten by the mod. You will need script extender for it to function properly.
Oh no, your comment section is corrupting you slowly, but surely, haha! Don't let 'em coax you! The next guy will convince you that Cambions and Bears are technically okay too...
Oh no, your comment section is corrupting you slowly, but surely, haha! Don't let 'em coax you!
Even if I do that, that'll be an alternative mod version. There'll be 2 files, with two slightly different stories.
The next guy will convince you that Cambions and Bears are technically okay too...
No way
My goal here is not in sleeping / not sleeping with drows or etc, my goal is to restore the consistency of her character. If there are enough dialog lines to show her state of mind and consistency of the character/story, I will try to do that.
As a summary, if Tav cheats on her, she breaks up with them.
As long as it is a player initiative and there is true agreement from both sides, fine. Not like in an unmodified game where a bear comes out of nowhere saying he wants to join the swim or whole Sharess' Caress situation and that's famous disapproval if you refuse (unless they removed it)
I mainly wanted to know if it's safe/possible to install this mod mid-playthrough. Or at least while still in act one.
I believe the main thing with installing this mod mid-playthrough is doing it before the Nightsong decision in act 2. Doing so after will lock you out of a couple of repeatable actions that the mod provides, at least for a little bit. I remember installing it post Nightsong and I couldn't hug Shadowheart because I missed the initial hug that the mod adds right after you leave the Shadowfell, so I went back to a save before that point.
I think the biggest thing the mod does in act 1 is not give as much approval for rescuing Shadowheart on the Nautilus, so you don't miss out on neutral/sassy lines as she can become friendly pretty much instantly with the regular approval gains. If you ever want to experience more neutral Shadowheart lines or that of other companions though, there are console commands that you can use in the script extender to change it up and see what they're like. I've been having a lot of fun changing up approval before a big moment to see the companions' different kinds of responses to things at different approval levels, after which I'll load the save up with their normal approval gained during the playthrough. :)
Don't remember exactly where I got it from, but this spreadsheet is pretty comprehensive with console commands: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vHhEllQy_PnXSseGQXvr-2VylawwjhoJpcd7m37lTpQ/edit?gid=90606752#gid=90606752
^I do recommend this as well, also make sure to take lots of long rests even before you reach the Grove! She has like 3-4 long rest events which you'll never get if you progress the story "too fast"...:(which is something maybe @iamy0urdad could look into changing perhaps? although it's probably not something that can be done easily...)
To be fair, Shadowheart has the dirtiest mind / comments in the game by far, there are whole compilations of them, haha. But she's probably just trying to be edgy, not her true nature.
At the start her edgy/sassy stuff definitely seems a bit off from her true nature yeah, she barely has any memories or sense of self and seems to be trying to play the role of what she thinks a Sharran should be. Same with explaining the Sharran doctrine so defiantly, looking back all the extra attitude seems more about trying to convince herself than trying to convince you. One thing that does stay consistent is that she has a great sense of humor throughout. A lot of situations with other companions where a dialogue choice seemed that it could be taken as too rude potentially, they've definitely had moments where they took it the wrong way and seemed hurt. Shadowheart, though? Most dialogue options that sound potentially rude/sarcastic/risky towards her, she'll just be amused and sass you right back, taking it in her stride and seemingly confident that you don't mean anything bad by it.
Oh also, some insightful "secret" lines you can get with Shadowheart from the start is if you continually keep selecting/clicking her. Any companion will first have their standard lines they cycle through when you select them, but if you keep doing it they'll have a set of unique lines they go through. Kinda like how every unit in Warcraft/Starcraft have their own unique lines if you keep clicking on them, if you've ever played those.
Now, most characters will just have quippy lines or some 4th wall breaking lines, but Shadowheart will actually give some insightful inner thoughts on her mindset and wishes. I find it really nice, because those little lines for herself are in a way foreshadowing her character growth and they're also giving you hints on what she approves of. You can listen to them here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj40E6wqpXM&t=32s
I didn't know that, thank you! But also hate you and you ruined my day, that's so freakin' sad! T.T "If I succeed maybe I'll be allowed a pet" damn that hits hard...
@Shar1148, you did know about Nibbles, didn't you? If you talk to Nocturne, she tells a story about Shadowheart's pet rat. Viconia forced her to kill him. Also, in the grove, if you select Shadowheart and try to kick the squirrel and miss 2x, the wound flares and hits her. And if you play her as an origin, there's a small cutscene that explains what she feels that moment, suddenly her heart is filled with sorrow.
I could see Shadowheart potentially being up for fun with some courtesans with her partner as a one off thing
You know what, I agree with that.
I listened to that scene again, and I don't think it makes sense on her Selunite path. While I agree with you, Shadowheart may be open to this kind of stuff, given the content of the scene (most likely it was written for her Sharran path, because it make total sense in that case), and the fact that on her Selunite path her life was upended few days ago, I think there is no way she'd agree to that. Another place, another time, after spending more time with Tav/Durge, perhaps after kids, but not right there right "now".
Its really weird. In Act 3, she talks about breaking people. However, in Act 1, if you play as Shadowheart Origin, and well, torture Liam; then break his thumbs. Her wound flares up. I found that out, and I was like;
More than likely. I got my Durge biting off toes because for some ungodly reason I keep getting continue for that scene. And Shadowheart breaking thumbs. We are dream team and an amazing romantic couple. What can I say. Lmao
@iamy0urdad I strongly disagree with KnightSentinel9977 here. I don't think you should add a path to have Selunite Shadowheart sleep with the Drow twins. Please do not do this. I simply don't think Selunite Shadowheart would want to share at all, even if it was a casual one time thing. She would not be open to something like that. You were right the first time that it only makes sense for the Sharran path. Please don't second guess yourself on that. Selunite Shadowheart clearly wants a committed, exclusive relationship which is consistent with her Act I and II characterization. Her saying she "would always want more of you than you'd have to spare" would absolutely apply to sex in particular. Her intimacy with Tav/Durge is something special between them, not with anyone else. With this in mind, to go from that to introducing any third or fourth parties into the bedroom I think would only weaken the relationship by cheapening their intimacy into something they can just bring others, including virtual strangers, into on a whim. But that's not even my strongest reason.
Honestly for me the whole thing with Sharess's Caress and the Drow twins was the primary reason I installed the mod. Halsin yes, Mizora yes, but the whole thing with the Drow Twins is what I was most disturbed by. I don't think Selunite Shadowheart should be nor even would she be okay with the fact that you and her would be sleeping with a literal brother and sister at the same time and I despise how casually the game treats it when it's clearly incest/incest adjacent. The fact that she is down for it in the vanilla game is unforgivably messed up and imo cruelly disrespectful to her character. I can see why Sharran Shadowheart would not care about that, but not Selunite Shadowheart, especially when she's trying to save her own blood family. Would she swing with her own parents, her own blood relatives, if they offered? Hell no! She'd be mortified! With this in mind, I would think that the idea of sleeping with two people who are blood related at the same time would gross her out and frankly it annoys me that it doesn't gross most of the characters out. The only two characters who comment on the incest negatively are Karlach and the cat at Sharess's Caress and that's it, which is just insane to me. So having Selunite Shadowheart be down with that, to me feels like blatant character assassination. Your mod fixed that, I am very grateful you did so, and I would hate to see you backtrack, even if it was just a separate version of this mod.
I also believe a foursome with the drow twins would just be too close to what she likely experienced while at the cloister when Viconia groomed her and her fellow initiates to "get to know each other". You know, the thing she brings up when you cheat on her with Mizora in the vanilla game. Too close to her trauma.
You did a great thing here and you fixed something that desperately needed fixing, because Larian wouldn't because her writer prioritized horny fan service over respecting the character he created. Please don't backtrack on it.
Its really weird. In Act 3, she talks about breaking people. However, in Act 1, if you play as Shadowheart Origin, and well, torture Liam; then break his thumbs. Her wound flares up. I found that out, and I was like;
"Is breaking his thumbs bad? Or what?"
I think I found out why the wound flares up when torturing Liam. In act 3, there's a torture rack in the cloister. Shadowheart recalls: "I... I think I was taught to break peoples' thumbs here. I swear I can remember the snap of bone, the screams..." "I think I remember... breaking thumbs? Yes, the Mother Superior showed me."
The wound flares every time she tries to access her memory that was taken from her. Even if that memory is about breaking thumbs.
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There was a cyclone a few hundreds miles and a mountain range away from where I live, yet it knocked out all the power. I don't have normal access to neither internet nor my PC (where I have all my stuff). So, I cannot look into issues reported here. I hope it all will get sorted out in a week.
SPOILER WARNING: some Q&As are full of spoilers.
All that I wrote above applies to Selunite Shadowheart only. Read below for Sharran Shadowheart.
a) it can't be "true love"
b) it has to be framed as service to Shar
c) there is no attachment, partners are not bound by the relationship.
The c) comes in a very subtle way, Shadowheart says: "But you're clever, willing, and flexible... you needn't feel left wanting." What does this line mean? She admits that she can't give what Tav really wants. She cannot be their lifetime partner, as Shar always comes first. When she tells Tav, you need not feel left wanting, the only possible interpretation, she tells Tav to be flexible and willing, and to look elsewhere, to compensate for what she can't give. She promises to give all that she can, but she understands, this won't be enough. Shadowheart understands, she will anger Shar if she demonstrates a bond between her and Tav. As she said in act 1 banter, shor-term amusements are much less hassle. With this perspective, Sharran Shadowheart can't and won't stop Tav from climbing the bear, or hanging out with the cambion. This has nothing to do with the religion itself; it rather has to do with Shar's personality, as all gods of Toril do have personalities.
First, if Selunite Shadowheart goes in there alone, meaning Tav stays out of it, she always saves her parents. There's a special cutscene for that. This is a part of the "companions always do the right thing when they are left alone" thing that one can see if you try the same with Astarion and his ascension, or Gale with some shadow magic stuff in Moonrise towers. There are videos on YT.
Second, the "shared future" discussion in camp. She directly tells you about everything she wants. She basically describes her version of a happy ending, which is exactly the "retirement to a cottage with her parents" ending. She tells that she wants to save parents, retire to a farm, grow flowers and be surrounded by animals. She doesn't want to travel the sword coast in an attempt to forget her parents (of whom she remembers only how she tortured them) and somehow re-start her life.
Third, keywords. If you save the nymph in Sharess Caress, she will grant you a free session of a guided self-reflection of sorts. Almost every origin character has a keyword that represents their best outcome (weirdly though, except Lae'zel). Again, there are videos on YT. Shadowheart's word - "whole". When her father asks her to kill them, he says "we'll be at peace". At peace is another keyword. So, if you save her parents, she will tell you that she is now whole: she got her family back and found a true love (if you're romancing her). Therefore, saving parents is her best outcome. Another keyword, "at peace", pops up only if you force her into killing her parents.
Fourth, if parents are saved, she is much happier, even if Shar inflicts pain on her from time to time. There's mention in the epilogue that those events become less frequent over time, as if Shar lost her interest (oh really? Who would've though that a goddess known for complete disregard of her followers would lose interest in tormenting a former one). She keeps talking about her garden, about her pets, she tells you jokes that her father told her, and she also tells that she's happy because she lives with Tav on a farm. If parents are killed, she goes back to that many times, and every time her words are full of subtle regret. Not to mention clear signs of suffering because of that loss, the very thing that drives people to Shar. This makes me think that the ending where parents are killed is open-ended, and she may potentially go back to Shar.
Fifth, there's a trope that this wound somehow binds her soul to Shar. This is a baseless claim. Cosmology of Forgotten Realms are quite clear on that, gods claim souls of mortals based on whom they worshipped. Meaning, it doesn't matter how many curses one has, if they worship Selune, Selune has a claim on their soul. Therefore, this wound is just that, a source of physical pain and nothing more than that. Therefore, getting rid of it is basically a question of exchanging physical pain to actual loss and subsequent mental suffering. To me, the only reason to make the choice of killing her parents is if you role-play a narcissist that has zero compassion.
And finally, Shar path is the worst. There's a book, "Unclaimed". She tells a story about a woman that dedicated her life to Shar only to be abandoned by her. Shar abandoned her soul in the city of judgement, and never claimed her to "her embrace" (that sharrans speak about all the time). Then, there's a skeleton of a dark justiciar somewhere in Reithwin with a diary. This diary tells a story about losing everything after they stepped on the DJ path. Then there's epilogue. Sharran Shadowheart doesn't even try to hide her regret about how things ended, if the player romanced her and she broke with them to serve Shar. Her words are full of hints that she is still pretty much in love with Tav. She says, "It would have pained me to have you close, but not be able to dedicate myself to you in every waking moment".
I updated the github repo with the most recent mod source code.
https://github.com/0x1amy0urdad/bg3modding_public/
What I did include besides the code, is all voice lines of all companions (and also Arnell's lines). So, if you think you can do better than me and find a better line for Shadowheart to say in Bhaal temple, you're very welcome to try (yes, I do mean that, I do want a better line)! Just remember, the line should be said in a suitable tone, and usually it is impossible to lip-sync something in the middle, so it should be something at the start of the line, while the tail can be cut. I will start putting there some readmes and guides on how to do things soon-ish.
You can find the lines here in this ZIP:
https://github.com/0x1amy0urdad/bg3modding_public/blob/main/example/voice_lines.zip
The format is:
{
"filename": "TUT_UpperDeck_PAD_FoundInfernalMetal.lsf",
"h8c8f06cbg6f5fg4eb3g8f69gec0426541da6#2": "Strange metal. Might be valuable.",
},
Each JSON block has a source file name which is an LSF file that contains a dialog resource. The key is the line handle concatenated with the symbol '#' and then with the line version from the loca file. You can use the handle to look up and extract the actual wem file in game's resources using ShinyHobo's BG3 modding multitool (google knows where to get it). You can use https://vgmstream.org/ to convert wems into wavs.
This is a public repo, so you should be able to download it without needing an account or anything. Please lmk if you have problems downloading it. I signed out of my account and I am able to download, FWIW.
P.S. Needless to say, Astarion didn't get the most lines. Contrary to the widespread belief, Shadowheart did, at least judging by file sizes and line count.
Do you mean the "Checking in on me..."? It definitely works. Most likely, you have a mod conflict...
So, I wondering if it's like that because of this mod or some other mod, or Larian simply didn't do it properly.:(
There's also one where she just straight up yells "You can't die - not like this!" (v3ed74f063c6042dc83f6f034cb47c679_h595af932g549cg4870g904fg280d9a91a579.wem) or "I thought we were going to save each other" (v3ed74f063c6042dc83f6f034cb47c679_h0df638b8gc8d5g4524gbf48g1c2d5498ca54.wem) which could be used as a sort of initial reaction to Durge's death, right before Withers shows up to resurrect them.
I do think the new scene is an improvement. I guess if you're looking for feedback, maybe some music would be better? It is...a little quiet. Idk, just spitballing ideas here. Thanks for this!
I think I will try to do something with the "couldn't bear to lose you" line. Thanks again!
But yeah idk how the lip sync thing works, you definitely know more about the technical aspects than I do. I thought you could just cut part of the line but I guess it's tied to the actual speaking animation. BG3 spaghetti code and all that. I can't think of any other line that would fit, but I'm not sure if "Keep safe out there" conveys the right...gravity of the sentiment? But this is just a personal nitpick so feel free to ignore.
I swear once you figure out how to do the lip sync thing you'll be able to do some amazing things!
After sleeping on the "I couldn't bear to lose you. Not after everything", I think I have few ideas to try...
Thanks for considering! I'll see if I can find any better lines.
In the game I just finished I also used Eralyne's Appearance Edit Enhanced to change Shadowheart's sloppy big goth shade to a light lid line when she changes her hair color, which felt fitting - in case any reader wants to steal the idea.
Re minor things to discuss, I am open to feedback. You can either post it here, or perhaps just send me a direct message.
a) She is with someone
b) Dame Aylin told her that her father is a lycanthrope (a lythari?) at the end of act 2
c) She may be a lycanthrope too (I still want to try and make it for real; Halsin mentions that wolves mate for life, while bears roam free; Shadowheart being a lycanthrope i.e. a wolf, you see where it goes)
Hence, Wyll has the full right to be a child minder for their werewolf cubs :)
P.S. this is my headcanon, of course
I mainly wanted to know if it's safe/possible to install this mod mid-playthrough. Or at least while still in act one.
You know what, I agree with that. However, it shouldn't be as blunt as in the original game. And there should be no option to throw her out at the last moment (or, if that happens, she breaks up with Tav). I am thinking about adding a conversation about that. A rough script that I have in mind: after parents are saved, and approval is high enough (like 80+), Tav can talk to her in camp and bring this up (in their relationship dialog), and after some persuasion (a DC 15-ish skill check), if she agrees, only then they can go back to Sharess' and have fun. No druids, of course.
The reason why it is done the way it is now, I didn't know much about stuff back then, this was one of my first edits. I literally wasn't able to do anything more elaborate than plain denial. And frankly speaking, this plain denial is still much better than the blunt dialog in the original game...
(Also if I could get an answer on if it is safe to install mid-playthrough I would really appreciate it ♥)
My bad, missed that. Yes, it is 100% safe, as long as you don't save while in a dialog that is overwritten by the mod. You will need script extender for it to function properly.
Even if I do that, that'll be an alternative mod version. There'll be 2 files, with two slightly different stories.
No way
My goal here is not in sleeping / not sleeping with drows or etc, my goal is to restore the consistency of her character. If there are enough dialog lines to show her state of mind and consistency of the character/story, I will try to do that.
As a summary, if Tav cheats on her, she breaks up with them.
I believe the main thing with installing this mod mid-playthrough is doing it before the Nightsong decision in act 2. Doing so after will lock you out of a couple of repeatable actions that the mod provides, at least for a little bit. I remember installing it post Nightsong and I couldn't hug Shadowheart because I missed the initial hug that the mod adds right after you leave the Shadowfell, so I went back to a save before that point.
I think the biggest thing the mod does in act 1 is not give as much approval for rescuing Shadowheart on the Nautilus, so you don't miss out on neutral/sassy lines as she can become friendly pretty much instantly with the regular approval gains. If you ever want to experience more neutral Shadowheart lines or that of other companions though, there are console commands that you can use in the script extender to change it up and see what they're like. I've been having a lot of fun changing up approval before a big moment to see the companions' different kinds of responses to things at different approval levels, after which I'll load the save up with their normal approval gained during the playthrough. :)
Don't remember exactly where I got it from, but this spreadsheet is pretty comprehensive with console commands: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vHhEllQy_PnXSseGQXvr-2VylawwjhoJpcd7m37lTpQ/edit?gid=90606752#gid=90606752
Oh also, some insightful "secret" lines you can get with Shadowheart from the start is if you continually keep selecting/clicking her. Any companion will first have their standard lines they cycle through when you select them, but if you keep doing it they'll have a set of unique lines they go through. Kinda like how every unit in Warcraft/Starcraft have their own unique lines if you keep clicking on them, if you've ever played those.
Now, most characters will just have quippy lines or some 4th wall breaking lines, but Shadowheart will actually give some insightful inner thoughts on her mindset and wishes. I find it really nice, because those little lines for herself are in a way foreshadowing her character growth and they're also giving you hints on what she approves of. You can listen to them here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj40E6wqpXM&t=32s
I listened to that scene again, and I don't think it makes sense on her Selunite path. While I agree with you, Shadowheart may be open to this kind of stuff, given the content of the scene (most likely it was written for her Sharran path, because it make total sense in that case), and the fact that on her Selunite path her life was upended few days ago, I think there is no way she'd agree to that. Another place, another time, after spending more time with Tav/Durge, perhaps after kids, but not right there right "now".
"Is breaking his thumbs bad? Or what?"
She would say, either not enough, or too much... She tortured him sloppily.
Honestly for me the whole thing with Sharess's Caress and the Drow twins was the primary reason I installed the mod. Halsin yes, Mizora yes, but the whole thing with the Drow Twins is what I was most disturbed by. I don't think Selunite Shadowheart should be nor even would she be okay with the fact that you and her would be sleeping with a literal brother and sister at the same time and I despise how casually the game treats it when it's clearly incest/incest adjacent. The fact that she is down for it in the vanilla game is unforgivably messed up and imo cruelly disrespectful to her character. I can see why Sharran Shadowheart would not care about that, but not Selunite Shadowheart, especially when she's trying to save her own blood family. Would she swing with her own parents, her own blood relatives, if they offered? Hell no! She'd be mortified! With this in mind, I would think that the idea of sleeping with two people who are blood related at the same time would gross her out and frankly it annoys me that it doesn't gross most of the characters out. The only two characters who comment on the incest negatively are Karlach and the cat at Sharess's Caress and that's it, which is just insane to me. So having Selunite Shadowheart be down with that, to me feels like blatant character assassination. Your mod fixed that, I am very grateful you did so, and I would hate to see you backtrack, even if it was just a separate version of this mod.
I also believe a foursome with the drow twins would just be too close to what she likely experienced while at the cloister when Viconia groomed her and her fellow initiates to "get to know each other". You know, the thing she brings up when you cheat on her with Mizora in the vanilla game. Too close to her trauma.
You did a great thing here and you fixed something that desperately needed fixing, because Larian wouldn't because her writer prioritized horny fan service over respecting the character he created. Please don't backtrack on it.
I won't add that, I already explained why. Let's consider this closed. I will add another entry to the Q&A.
I think I found out why the wound flares up when torturing Liam. In act 3, there's a torture rack in the cloister. Shadowheart recalls:
"I... I think I was taught to break peoples' thumbs here. I swear I can remember the snap of bone, the screams..."
"I think I remember... breaking thumbs? Yes, the Mother Superior showed me."
The wound flares every time she tries to access her memory that was taken from her. Even if that memory is about breaking thumbs.