I'm currently trying to heal myself with the Inflict Wounds spell through Shadowheart. But I'm not getting healed by it, nor am I taking damage from it, with my undead as Oathbreaker.
The problem is that healing spells don't work on undead, except for healing potions. So now I can't heal my tank at all except with potions.
I had downloaded the mod to play as undead and at the same time expand the spectrum in the game through other mechanisms. So now I wanted to play a returned paladin as an oathbreaker and as an undead, but let myself be healed by these spells instead of the real healing spells.
As I said, it doesn't work.
Maybe something can be done?
And would it be feasible for the healing on player characters and party members who are undead to be slightly better through the corresponding spells of your mod, or to increase with the levels? Player characters have slightly more HP than the summoned undead creatures.
Perhaps an optional file would be useful for this.
Hi! My question is, will this work on Astarion? After all, it is not written anywhere that he is undead, but in Act 3 the curse that affects everyone who is not undead (in the Scavenger quest) does not work on him.
The game considers Astarion undead when it suits it. We can't paralyze Kasador, because he's undead. But we can paralyze Astarion, because he's a high elf, but he's also undead. I hope you understood my point. So I want to know if this mod will consider Astarion and his spawn to be undead? .-.
You are correct, the game only considers Astarion as Undead in Act 3 under specific circumstances. And even then, it's only for very very specific things, because he can be healed by normal healing spells throughout the whole game and doesn't get the resistance/immunity to necrotic damage.
I didn't make ANY changes to that or anything related to Astarion, so: NO, Astarion won't immediatly count as Undead for the purpose of being healed by the necrotic damage of these spells. You need to use a way of turning characters undead (explained in the mod details). In the future I may add a way to, but I'll first have to figure out how I would want it.
Funny to see this mod come up after my Necromancy Heals Undead mod. Reminds me when three different modders worked on Dragonborn Breath Weapon mods at the same time independent of each other without knowing they were all doing the same thing (I was one of them and we had a good laugh).
That aside, while this affects more spells, I'm worried about the amount of hit points restored may be too low, I balanced mine after the UA8 healing changes mod which made healing spells actually worth the action point. I think that gives a good balanced result in my opinion. I would use this mod if the HP regain amount wasn't so low.
Had no idea someone else had jumped on this, thats cool! My reasoning for the heal amounts: most undead you face will never have huge health pools, especially if you're only using the base game. So having huge heals would make no difference. Plus, these spells can all be upcasted (some higher heals require increased spell level mod). Also, remember NPC's WILL use these. I don't think it would be fun facing an Undead NPC that can heal to full health every turn lol.
I played with it through several highly modded, added difficulty, endgame battles and I found it to be very balanced. Sure, some of my squishier undead died eventually, but that's bound to happen, and at the end of the day, it's what they're made for. They had better sustain, so they're weren't immediatly nuked (looking at that Raphael bossfight lol) and they still felt not too op.
There's tastes for everything, and if someone thinks it should heal more, they're okay to voice that. I'll even consider adding a version that heals more, but the mod was just published lol
Just try not to seem like you're shitting on someone else's work please, we can all have different opinions and express them without measuring each other's work against each other. :)
Harm will heal, on average, 49hp. Most of the time, that's nearly half of a character's health, a little bit less if you're going for 20 CON or further. In my reasoning, thats extremely good of a heal already. A same level healing spell will heal more, as it should. But it won't be usable as an offensive spell. Harm can be used both ways, so it shouldn't be healing as much. Plus, I added upcasting support for it, and from levels 7-9 it adds an extra defensive layer with added temporary hp. Please try it before committing to the idea that the healing isn't enough :)
Hey, sorry if I gave that impression, it totally wasn't my intention (I even added an anecdote of a similar situation of me and other modders laughing about it)!
I was just voicing my opinion about the healing amount on undead of SOME SPELLS (not all) by pointing to the UA8 Healing Changes that were officially approved and added to DnD 2024 as part of my argument to increase them. Your Inflict Wounds cure 1d8 instead of 2d8 (2d8 being the amount of Cure Wounds after the Healing Changes) so it feels weak, because most people already agreed that healing spells were weak before the UA8 Healing Changes for the opportunity cost and action economy. The fact that you can use these spells offensively doesn't change that when most of the time you can only choose ONE of the two functions, healing OR damaging and you are still spending a FULL action point.
Circle of the Death for example does let you do BOTH things at the same time (damage AND heal) and that's where I agree with you that that spell's healing amount should be toned down comparatively.
Regarding specifically Harm, your Harm heals 12d4 which is an average of 30 Hit Points (12 times 2.5 = 30, 2.5 is the average result of a d4 dice), not 49. Using a level 6 spell slot and an action to heal 30 points and doing NO DAMAGE (because you can only do one of the two) doesn't feel worth it in my opinion because of the opportunity cost (and you only added Temporary HP to the Upcast of Harm, not to the base level of it). The reason healing amounts were buffed in UA8 Healing Changes is because sitations like this: at level 11 where you get a Spell Slot level 6, most enemy characters can do more than 30 Points of damage in one turn to a target, so healing was never enough relative to the damage curve at the same level (furthering the problem of DnD known as ''yo-yo healing'' where you are constantly going up and down at 1 HP because you can't outheal damage).
I also play with difficulty mods, but some balance things can be evaluated just with math (the one I showed above), I don't need to make a whole playthrough for my argument of the healing amount being too little, more so because I already played with similar mods and I have already played the game several times through.
Anyway, this is just my feedback of what I would like to see on this mod because I would like to play with it, because I thought feedback was welcomed. At the end of day, it's your mod and your vision. Please ignore my comment if you feel like my suggestion is unnecessary (which would be totally understandable!).
Well, again, even after playing with modded difficulty/enemy tweaks, I found the healing to be enough personally. I don't plan on healing my undead to full health all the time anyways. So it's like I said, everyone has tastes. And honestly, I'm glad there's more people looking into this type of thing, helps the community have more options to choose from. Just one small corretion tho: I just checked, and my version of Harm does indeed do 14d6 ~ 49dmg on average. I think the 12d6 value is the default one if I remember correctly? And the temporary hp not being available to level 6 was on purpose, I find it too rewarding. Again, different tastes and it's okay! Also, we could have a whole debate about Harm specifically, because tbh, the spell itself is already lackluster for a 6th level spell, Larian missed the mark on that one
Hello. Yes, Harm is already a problematic spell in the base-game, I was hoping Larian would buff it or something too. But I'm happy mods like these exist to help these spells stand out more.
Regarding the 12d4, that was the healing amount of your Harm on the first version you uploaded, but it seems now you increased it to 14d6 which is indeed 49 on your latest update. That amount feels a lot better. And yes, my feedback was only an observation but I totally agree it's good to have different options, modularity and choice is always great for mod users.
Great mod either way, I'll probably start using it on my next playthrough given how complete it is on covering so many spells!
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https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/5895?tab=posts&BH=0
Apparently your mod does not work with it.
I'm currently trying to heal myself with the Inflict Wounds spell through Shadowheart. But I'm not getting healed by it, nor am I taking damage from it, with my undead as Oathbreaker.
The problem is that healing spells don't work on undead, except for healing potions. So now I can't heal my tank at all except with potions.
I had downloaded the mod to play as undead and at the same time expand the spectrum in the game through other mechanisms. So now I wanted to play a returned paladin as an oathbreaker and as an undead, but let myself be healed by these spells instead of the real healing spells.
As I said, it doesn't work.
Maybe something can be done?
And would it be feasible for the healing on player characters and party members who are undead to be slightly better through the corresponding spells of your mod, or to increase with the levels? Player characters have slightly more HP than the summoned undead creatures.
Perhaps an optional file would be useful for this.
Thanks for your efforts.
I didn't make ANY changes to that or anything related to Astarion, so: NO, Astarion won't immediatly count as Undead for the purpose of being healed by the necrotic damage of these spells. You need to use a way of turning characters undead (explained in the mod details).
In the future I may add a way to, but I'll first have to figure out how I would want it.
That aside, while this affects more spells, I'm worried about the amount of hit points restored may be too low, I balanced mine after the UA8 healing changes mod which made healing spells actually worth the action point. I think that gives a good balanced result in my opinion. I would use this mod if the HP regain amount wasn't so low.
the same level healing spell as Harm, Heals 70hp , but Harm does not that
My reasoning for the heal amounts: most undead you face will never have huge health pools, especially if you're only using the base game.
So having huge heals would make no difference. Plus, these spells can all be upcasted (some higher heals require increased spell level mod).
Also, remember NPC's WILL use these. I don't think it would be fun facing an Undead NPC that can heal to full health every turn lol.
I played with it through several highly modded, added difficulty, endgame battles and I found it to be very balanced. Sure, some of my squishier undead died eventually, but that's bound to happen, and at the end of the day, it's what they're made for. They had better sustain, so they're weren't immediatly nuked (looking at that Raphael bossfight lol) and they still felt not too op.
There's tastes for everything, and if someone thinks it should heal more, they're okay to voice that. I'll even consider adding a version that heals more, but the mod was just published lol
Just try not to seem like you're shitting on someone else's work please, we can all have different opinions and express them without measuring each other's work against each other. :)
Plus, I added upcasting support for it, and from levels 7-9 it adds an extra defensive layer with added temporary hp.
Please try it before committing to the idea that the healing isn't enough :)
I was just voicing my opinion about the healing amount on undead of SOME SPELLS (not all) by pointing to the UA8 Healing Changes that were officially approved and added to DnD 2024 as part of my argument to increase them. Your Inflict Wounds cure 1d8 instead of 2d8 (2d8 being the amount of Cure Wounds after the Healing Changes) so it feels weak, because most people already agreed that healing spells were weak before the UA8 Healing Changes for the opportunity cost and action economy. The fact that you can use these spells offensively doesn't change that when most of the time you can only choose ONE of the two functions, healing OR damaging and you are still spending a FULL action point.
Circle of the Death for example does let you do BOTH things at the same time (damage AND heal) and that's where I agree with you that that spell's healing amount should be toned down comparatively.
Regarding specifically Harm, your Harm heals 12d4 which is an average of 30 Hit Points (12 times 2.5 = 30, 2.5 is the average result of a d4 dice), not 49. Using a level 6 spell slot and an action to heal 30 points and doing NO DAMAGE (because you can only do one of the two) doesn't feel worth it in my opinion because of the opportunity cost (and you only added Temporary HP to the Upcast of Harm, not to the base level of it). The reason healing amounts were buffed in UA8 Healing Changes is because sitations like this: at level 11 where you get a Spell Slot level 6, most enemy characters can do more than 30 Points of damage in one turn to a target, so healing was never enough relative to the damage curve at the same level (furthering the problem of DnD known as ''yo-yo healing'' where you are constantly going up and down at 1 HP because you can't outheal damage).
I also play with difficulty mods, but some balance things can be evaluated just with math (the one I showed above), I don't need to make a whole playthrough for my argument of the healing amount being too little, more so because I already played with similar mods and I have already played the game several times through.
Anyway, this is just my feedback of what I would like to see on this mod because I would like to play with it, because I thought feedback was welcomed. At the end of day, it's your mod and your vision. Please ignore my comment if you feel like my suggestion is unnecessary (which would be totally understandable!).
Just one small corretion tho: I just checked, and my version of Harm does indeed do 14d6 ~ 49dmg on average. I think the 12d6 value is the default one if I remember correctly? And the temporary hp not being available to level 6 was on purpose, I find it too rewarding. Again, different tastes and it's okay!
Also, we could have a whole debate about Harm specifically, because tbh, the spell itself is already lackluster for a 6th level spell, Larian missed the mark on that one
Regarding the 12d4, that was the healing amount of your Harm on the first version you uploaded, but it seems now you increased it to 14d6 which is indeed 49 on your latest update. That amount feels a lot better. And yes, my feedback was only an observation but I totally agree it's good to have different options, modularity and choice is always great for mod users.
Great mod either way, I'll probably start using it on my next playthrough given how complete it is on covering so many spells!