The discussions have been interesting surrounding what I believed to be a open-and-shut case, so thank you all for participating. As a firm believer of choice, I have uploaded a 2nd variant that has resistance instead of Immunity to Necrotic. (If another variant is decided upon, I saw a bit of discussion of zombie vs skeleton, then I may upload another if desired)
Fixed the initial resistant upload (folder structure got messed up somehow. :\)
I love your Mod (As i'm uncondicialy a Fan of the V3.5 of D&D and many thing don't happy me in V5) you could not know as i am gratefully to you to have do it. For the option and Discution i don't want to bother you cause i m here late. Just if Skeleton are resit to all execpt Crush and Zombie to All except Slash for me i have nothing to add. Else if you could (Resit it's Half Dmg in my head) put a version of this Real fact i'll be very gratefull.
But the REAL REASON why i write this post is to know if it's me that have a problem (with other mod or load order) whit this mod and the last patch V8. Cause since i don't work at all i toke a CrashToDSK (I have take a look in log) as the game try to load it.
I haope someone could help me.
Again Great great Work and many thank for this mod Best regard, ExA
why is the death knight different? in the pictures it is a full armor with a helmet but when i play it just a tall skeleton wearing clothes. why are they different?
I also want to know. It really looks really cool like this, much better than that standard knight we found on the way to act 2 (through the mountains).
Heyy, wondering if you (or anyone) would be interested in making a file that silences summons? especially undead summons. The constant groaning and creaking is super annoying to me and its preventing me from enjoying summons. Same with scratche's barks and my god is scratche's sniff so broken an d annoying.
id do only half resistance for necrotic to zombies in particular. as their flesh falls of (which is what necrotic means, right?) it can be a disadvantage to them. sure, they would just become skeletons eventually. as for skeletons, yeah it makes total sense for them to be completely immune to necrotic. nothing left to lose. zombies though... they have some... raggedy bits? right?
@syrops Arguable (let's do a small nerd discussion :D ): I have no knowledge of the necrotic damage -or- the lore of how a zombie decomposes in the Toril/Faerun universe for that matter, but from a surface view, yes, i agree with your logic.
BUT, let's do a quick search and see what we can dig up....
1) on the forgotten realms wiki: didnt find any info aboutundead; nor aboutzombies in particular (you can click the underlined words if you want to read more because they're hyperlinks and some actually hold nice and interesting info) 2) on the baldur's gate wiki: same thing for theundead category; or the zombie race; or the zombie page.
!! -> Finally some palpable info: in the UNDEADsection, there is a very nice list of what can damage/ail them, but necrotic damage is not mentioned. So maybe that's something new introduced in BG3 or i dunno.
On the other hand, zombies are revived through REANIMATION MAGIC (this is said lore-wise in the links i provided), so even though it may seem logical for them to be weak to necrotic damage, they have reached the zombie status by MAGIC and not by an infection/biological cause. So if you ask me, now afte all this research, they only decompose in time as their magic fades/loses power. Soooo, OP may yet still be in the right with this mod.
@unknowngamer32 Thanks for the upload, i love the idea! Downloaded and endorsed!
Predfan Yey, love those. Just addin for the nerdy thread, since I'm all up for those kinds of diggins.
I'm guessing the list you linked is referring to BG1 or something, it doesn't contain necrotic because it, indeed, didn't exist back than, and was introduced in 4e. Even in 3.5 books, necrotic damaged was treated as "death" effects, which may be what it is referred to in that list as "slay effect"
So, in 4e book it reads: Undead are not living creatures; spells and effects that specifically target living creatures do not work against them. Most undead have resistance to necrotic damage”, already making it clear not all undead were always resistant to necrotic, rather most of them. Which leads to conclude even less were completely immune.
In 5e the only thing that's 100% common to all undead is that they can never be either immune or resistant to radiant damage. All other resistances/immunities will vary depending on each monster. As per 5e MM, analyzing four kinda "different" generic undead sheets:
-the Vampire sheet: damage resistances: necrotic, bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical weapons. Doesn't have any immunities. Doesn't show any vulnerabilities.
- the Mummy sheet: damage Resistances: bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical weapons. Immune to necrotic and poison. Vulnerable to fire.
-the Shadow sheet: damage Resistances: acid, cold, fire, lightning, thunder; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical weapons. Immune to necrotic and poison. Vulnerable to radiant.
-and finally, the Skeleton sheet: Damage resistances: none. Immune to poison. Vulnerable to bludgeoning.
So, again, 5e says only some types of undead are immune to necrotic, not even skeletons are, which kind of goes against what you were both agreeing on (lol).
Then there is radiant damage, which isn't even on the table yet. Went through all Monster Manual searching for any and everything related to it. Conclusion is, only types of monsters that are vulnerable to radiant damage are shadow related creatures. Apart from that, it only affects all undead types of regeneration and prevents them to benefit from "Undead Fortitude" check. On the other hand, every celestial/divine creatures are resistant to radiant.
But yeah, not requesting or suggesting anything, just dropping some info that might help in some way.
The more I read about 5e, the more half-baked it feels too.
Fire elementals are immune to fire damage, but water elementals aren't immune to ice damage (since water damage doesn't exist)--despite all their attacks being ice attacks! And as @foka2720 said, "every celestial/divine creatures are resistant to radiant", but for some reason, the undead isn't resistant to necrotic?! 5e/bg3 feels more and more incomplete. I would imagine that to fight the undead, one would want to bring radiant damage (since it's basically holy magic), and not bring Necrotic (since it's basically undeath magic), which is my basis for wanting to change it up to make sense. The part about vampires was hilarious to me. They have SunlightHypersensitivity, but not vulnerable radiant damage?! What ever happened to using Holy water on the nightfreaks!? /sigh I'm gonna be honest, I only recently took a more in-depth interest into the dnd stats, and so I'm not very well versed, but this just feels...weird. explains why my brother and friends liked to play homebrew versions of 3.5e.
Yeah, it also caught me by surprise Vampires are no longer vulnerable to radiant, even tho they take lots of damage just by standing out in the sun.
Don't have any 3.5 books to check, but if i'm not mistaken, back then all undead used to be completely immune to any kinds of mind-altering effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, or anything that affects and depends on constitution really, since their constitution was treated as "null".
Some Undead actually heal from Negative Energy (which was later changed to being called "Necrotic"). Several Liches like Larloch are known to have contingency spells that teleport them to a room full of Negative Energy (Necrotic) to regenerate in case of a near death event.
Edit: Wow, i just realized that BG3 doesn't even have any Liches in it, asides from Vlaakith. Not unless Ansur is a Dracolich rather than just a Skeletal Dragon.
@foka2720 Thanks for joining the convo and offering the info. I'm still getting the grasp of this "5e" thing and now i think i got it (it's some sort of global "consensus" update of the DND rules as i continued to google in these last hours). When i did my first research from my previous comment i had no idea where i was looking, i was just googling for "faerun zombies" or something like that and when i read that the homepage was named "BALDURSGATE.FANDOM[...]" i thought i would be THE place of lore/info and got my data from there.
And as a side note - i also think that vampires should be vulnerable to radiant.
@DaedrosV Thank you for your input, i learned something new and interesting! Also - maybe we'll get lich dlc :3
@ both i tried adapting my search words to include "5e rules" and, for example, the first result i got was https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Zombie#content. Here it clearly states that its ONLY immune to poison, necrotic is not even mentioned. 1 - So where do you guys get your correct 5e data? Can you drop me a link please? 2 - Also - doensn't Baldur's Gate series have a unique set of rules and is just loosely based on the 5e ??? Or is it completely rooted in the DND 5e set of rules?
Predfan When I need those kinds of info, I always go for the original books, not to compare or try and make it so BG3 should adapt, but rather for understanding what it's primarily being based on. I couldn't say about the whole BG series videogames. But I suppose the previous ones are probably based on AD&D rules, which is what the Baldur's Gate: Adventurer's Guide book is based on. BG 2 was released in 2000, the same year AD&D book got a major revision update and even changed name to only D&D 3.0 edition. As for BG3, my understanding is that it's heavily based on 5e, with some adaptations to make it fit a videogame by their interpretation, but still being fully guided by 5e rules where possible. Here's a list of all important changes they made: Baldur's Gate 3: Biggest Rules Changes From Dungeons and Dragons Fifth Edition
There's this website 5e Tools which contains pretty much everything related to 5e info. The bestiary is amazing for this kind of analysis. We can sort all monsters according to type and have a quick overview of all them at once. Also, check your inbox for additional data you may be interested :)
So if BG3 is independent in their rules/mechanics then we can rant all we want... maybe that was their vision from the get go. I am still using this mod tho, that's why mods exist in the first place, for us to taylor the experience for our personal comfort and to better enjoy a game because it fits better in our mentality/perception.
And thank you for the 5e tools link, very useful, i bookmarked it for when i'll further need to check DnD rules.
I also got your message, thank you for that too.
I gave you all kudos on this conversation cause it felt like a nice and professional gentlemans council <3 (no homo).
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Jump(If another variant is decided upon, I saw a bit of discussion of zombie vs skeleton, then I may upload another if desired)
Fixed the initial resistant upload (folder structure got messed up somehow. :\)
I love your Mod (As i'm uncondicialy a Fan of the V3.5 of D&D and many thing don't happy me in V5) you could not know as i am gratefully to you to have do it. For the option and Discution i don't want to bother you cause i m here late. Just if Skeleton are resit to all execpt Crush and Zombie to All except Slash for me i have nothing to add. Else if you could (Resit it's Half Dmg in my head) put a version of this Real fact i'll be very gratefull.
But the REAL REASON why i write this post is to know if it's me that have a problem (with other mod or load order) whit this mod and the last patch V8. Cause since i don't work at all i toke a CrashToDSK (I have take a look in log) as the game try to load it.
I haope someone could help me.
Again Great great Work and many thank for this mod
Best regard, ExA
Arguable (let's do a small nerd discussion :D ):
I have no knowledge of the necrotic damage -or- the lore of how a zombie decomposes in the Toril/Faerun universe for that matter, but from a surface view, yes, i agree with your logic.
BUT, let's do a quick search and see what we can dig up....
1) on the forgotten realms wiki: didnt find any info about undead; nor aboutzombies in particular (you can click the underlined words if you want to read more because they're hyperlinks and some actually hold nice and interesting info)
2) on the baldur's gate wiki: same thing for the undead category; or the zombie race; or the zombie page.
!! -> Finally some palpable info: in the UNDEAD section, there is a very nice list of what can damage/ail them, but necrotic damage is not mentioned. So maybe that's something new introduced in BG3 or i dunno.
On the other hand, zombies are revived through REANIMATION MAGIC (this is said lore-wise in the links i provided), so even though it may seem logical for them to be weak to necrotic damage, they have reached the zombie status by MAGIC and not by an infection/biological cause. So if you ask me, now afte all this research, they only decompose in time as their magic fades/loses power. Soooo, OP may yet still be in the right with this mod.
@unknowngamer32
Thanks for the upload, i love the idea! Downloaded and endorsed!
Just addin for the nerdy thread, since I'm all up for those kinds of diggins.
I'm guessing the list you linked is referring to BG1 or something, it doesn't contain necrotic because it, indeed, didn't exist back than, and was introduced in 4e. Even in 3.5 books, necrotic damaged was treated as "death" effects, which may be what it is referred to in that list as "slay effect"
So, in 4e book it reads: Undead are not living creatures; spells and effects that specifically target living creatures do not work against them. Most undead have resistance to necrotic damage”, already making it clear not all undead were always resistant to necrotic, rather most of them. Which leads to conclude even less were completely immune.
In 5e the only thing that's 100% common to all undead is that they can never be either immune or resistant to radiant damage. All other resistances/immunities will vary depending on each monster. As per 5e MM, analyzing four kinda "different" generic undead sheets:
-the Vampire sheet: damage resistances: necrotic, bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical weapons. Doesn't have any immunities. Doesn't show any vulnerabilities.
- the Mummy sheet: damage Resistances: bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical weapons. Immune to necrotic and poison. Vulnerable to fire.
-the Shadow sheet: damage Resistances: acid, cold, fire, lightning, thunder; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical weapons. Immune to necrotic and poison. Vulnerable to radiant.
-and finally, the Skeleton sheet: Damage resistances: none. Immune to poison. Vulnerable to bludgeoning.
So, again, 5e says only some types of undead are immune to necrotic, not even skeletons are, which kind of goes against what you were both agreeing on (lol).
Then there is radiant damage, which isn't even on the table yet. Went through all Monster Manual searching for any and everything related to it. Conclusion is, only types of monsters that are vulnerable to radiant damage are shadow related creatures. Apart from that, it only affects all undead types of regeneration and prevents them to benefit from "Undead Fortitude" check. On the other hand, every celestial/divine creatures are resistant to radiant.
But yeah, not requesting or suggesting anything, just dropping some info that might help in some way.
Fire elementals are immune to fire damage, but water elementals aren't immune to ice damage (since water damage doesn't exist)--despite all their attacks being ice attacks! And as @foka2720 said, "every celestial/divine creatures are resistant to radiant", but for some reason, the undead isn't resistant to necrotic?!
5e/bg3 feels more and more incomplete. I would imagine that to fight the undead, one would want to bring radiant damage (since it's basically holy magic), and not bring Necrotic (since it's basically undeath magic), which is my basis for wanting to change it up to make sense. The part about vampires was hilarious to me. They have SunlightHypersensitivity, but not vulnerable radiant damage?! What ever happened to using Holy water on the nightfreaks!? /sigh
I'm gonna be honest, I only recently took a more in-depth interest into the dnd stats, and so I'm not very well versed, but this just feels...weird. explains why my brother and friends liked to play homebrew versions of 3.5e.
Don't have any 3.5 books to check, but if i'm not mistaken, back then all undead used to be completely immune to any kinds of mind-altering effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, or anything that affects and depends on constitution really, since their constitution was treated as "null".
Edit: Wow, i just realized that BG3 doesn't even have any Liches in it, asides from Vlaakith. Not unless Ansur is a Dracolich rather than just a Skeletal Dragon.
Thanks for joining the convo and offering the info. I'm still getting the grasp of this "5e" thing and now i think i got it (it's some sort of global "consensus" update of the DND rules as i continued to google in these last hours). When i did my first research from my previous comment i had no idea where i was looking, i was just googling for "faerun zombies" or something like that and when i read that the homepage was named "BALDURSGATE.FANDOM[...]" i thought i would be THE place of lore/info and got my data from there.
And as a side note - i also think that vampires should be vulnerable to radiant.
@DaedrosV
Thank you for your input, i learned something new and interesting!
Also - maybe we'll get lich dlc :3
@ both
i tried adapting my search words to include "5e rules" and, for example, the first result i got was https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Zombie#content. Here it clearly states that its ONLY immune to poison, necrotic is not even mentioned.
1 - So where do you guys get your correct 5e data? Can you drop me a link please?
2 - Also - doensn't Baldur's Gate series have a unique set of rules and is just loosely based on the 5e ??? Or is it completely rooted in the DND 5e set of rules?
When I need those kinds of info, I always go for the original books, not to compare or try and make it so BG3 should adapt, but rather for understanding what it's primarily being based on.
I couldn't say about the whole BG series videogames. But I suppose the previous ones are probably based on AD&D rules, which is what the Baldur's Gate: Adventurer's Guide book is based on. BG 2 was released in 2000, the same year AD&D book got a major revision update and even changed name to only D&D 3.0 edition.
As for BG3, my understanding is that it's heavily based on 5e, with some adaptations to make it fit a videogame by their interpretation, but still being fully guided by 5e rules where possible.
Here's a list of all important changes they made: Baldur's Gate 3: Biggest Rules Changes From Dungeons and Dragons Fifth Edition
There's this website 5e Tools which contains pretty much everything related to 5e info. The bestiary is amazing for this kind of analysis. We can sort all monsters according to type and have a quick overview of all them at once.
Also, check your inbox for additional data you may be interested :)
So if BG3 is independent in their rules/mechanics then we can rant all we want... maybe that was their vision from the get go. I am still using this mod tho, that's why mods exist in the first place, for us to taylor the experience for our personal comfort and to better enjoy a game because it fits better in our mentality/perception.
And thank you for the 5e tools link, very useful, i bookmarked it for when i'll further need to check DnD rules.
I also got your message, thank you for that too.
I gave you all kudos on this conversation cause it felt like a nice and professional gentlemans council <3 (no homo).
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