Does this conflict with The Winter Forge? Because that adds an enchantment skill, and I'm not able to access Hidden Rogue from Daveth, nor do stealth and lockpicking show up on the skill list for my mage.
Is this compatible with RtF? I promise, PROMISE I looked at every single page and the articles for RtF trying to find a reference to changes like these or lack of compatibility. I did, however, see the Locksmith's Tools and thought that might be a conflict? If I didn't see something obvious, my bad. I just noticed you didn't list this mod as something you use in your recommended mods or the responses you've made to people under the RtF posts and wondered. Thanks for all your hard work on this and your other mods!
first I was just browsing and looked pass through this. after some time.. I thought, I might need that one mod, I passed it while ago, something about lockpicking, what was it. I tried keywords like rogue, lockpick, coercion, .... cant find it. No result.
Thanks for this mod friend, I think its kind of a breakthrough that you liberate the rouge from lockpicking. I think many new games are like this now (eg: Pillars of Eternity), it makes sense warrior or mage can lockpick. Also giving warriors and mages extra skill points to be in line with Rogue is a plus plus, I never realised this inconsistency before.
How about rename the mod name to, for example: Rogue Skills For All (All can Lockpick and Stealth) ?
Extra: I know I saw you are on break atm. But since that you are the only one that poke into Skills, I might as well mention this. Last time I played (decade ago), by the end of the games, always ended up with full Coercion (4 points) + Combat Training (4 points) thats it. leaves very little room for other skills to explore.
If only Combat Training can be integrated into the overall game system, possibly, including all the companions. not sure if this can be done, for example: Level 1 ----- bonus one exclusive point -----> Combat Training (automatically learned) Level 3 ----- bonus one exclusive point -----> Improved Training (automatically learned) Level 6 ----- bonus one exclusive point -----> Expert Combat Training (automatically learned) Level 10 ----- bonus one exclusive point -----> Master Combat Training (automatically learned)
Only suggestion. hope you can make it though. not sure who else can or when it will be on Nexus.
Actually, I am very recently back, I just haven't updated my profile yet.
This is not a rogue/lockpicking focused mod, it just includes it, because I believe it is vital. Plus my other skill focused mod Melee Caster Class (Mage Class Reworked) also includes it, but it is not the focus of that mod either. And my Return to Ferelden (Ferelden Revision) includes hidden rogue with lockpicking item (image), and an items to learn Combat Training and Improved Training.
Plus, in my next RtF expansion I am playing with attribute exchanges for the player. I still find skills and base stats something worth modding. The problem is I don't want to make a bunch of small mods, I tend to include as collections or with mods that somewhat relate to it. But I did tag is as skills or more skills/perks, I find searching by tags is sometimes better than word searches on Nexus, IF the modder tags properly X /
Yes I read this a month ago or so, but only remember the description.. vaguely. (search by tag!, thanks fo the tip) The other day when I read more into it, yes it is a byproduct, but people like me (not stray too far from the vanilla), will like it I think. its common sometimes in creation you have that intent, but then the byproduct turns into something. There are other old mods like 'spell open lock', or 'bash open chest', also 'add 50 skill books' (too uncanny) your way of (lockpick + stealth) relocation with UI integration is just better, seamless..
So it has been taken into consideration, nice one, I will have a look on that item for Combat Training. Return to Ferelden seems very ambitious very advance, I will look more into it later. (other Mod like pet peeves' creature drops is nice)
Nice to hear that you are well. no need to rush, if you have reputation, people will wait for it. dont get burned out.
extra note: at first I questioned the stealth for mage and warrior. I suppose it's alright.. I can learn it for one skill for fun, no need to master it up to four. also Combat Tactics 'maybe' worth considering (I did not mention this because I'm worried things will become too op)
So I am playing with the idea of reworking this mod. Just not sure how to go about it yet. I am more in a planning mode with my mods atm.
I am wondering if the way I have free skills in via a scripted in object (like in RtF's Ambience and Environment file) and have then sprinkled around the map, and if you have I or II the next object of that type will give you II or III and so on. Or by story progression instead of plot triggered. basically less scripts and not interfering with vanilla scripts.
Hi, its been awhile.. last time I was not in game yet, lots of things I had forgotten. but lately in game (just out of lothering, not playing atm). well, its quite different. seems that the number of the skill tomes given might suffice actually. I see.. If you intend to execute it, yes, your method with scripted items will do fine. also, I think you already have some fans, you know, they also might have something to say, probably better (I'm still very early in game, so I might get things wrong again like before)
btw, sorry if this is out of topic. Sten does not have a specialization, would be nice if there is one for him. a well integrated one (with the lore, etc). there are very few people doing skills/abilities. other than you, the most recent is symonius, but he's probably on hiatus, or finished playing the game. its not easy I think, might better work with someone, or else, get a lot of input from various opinions (fellow modders and/or comments)
btw, sorry if this is out of topic. Sten does not have a specialization, would be nice if there is one for him. a well integrated one (with the lore, etc)
I actually added this recently in another mod's update:
Return to Ferelden (Ferelden Revision)
Version AppEq-v2.1 or newer (Appearances and Equipment)
Added missing Knight-Commander's Helm DA2 replacement and Sten starts off with Champion specialization to match other Qunari.
Hi, I see. a lot of things in that mod, last time I just picked the two items you referred to me. I did not check the rest. by specialization, I mean Wynne (spirit healer), leliana (bard), zevran (...), ... (templar), etc. sten ( ? )
hi Hollow, can i request another version which also raise CUN stat to 16? Sometimes i respec my warden but i cant relearn the skill because my CUN stat is less than 16, especially mage and warrior.
Maybe something like check if CUN less than 16 then raise it, or just add 5 CUN stat after first time talked to Jory and Daveth.
I am currently not modding at the moment and when I am I have a few other projects in progress. I have no plans at this time for making another version of this mod.
hello man, sorry asking this one year late, my first time using this mod. I'm kinda stupid and dont understand the difference between normal and hidden rogue version, so i'll just ask which version should i use if i want my mc to be able to detect traps and unlocking chest without bringing leliana/zev?
Because i tried both version, start a new warrior/mage character, none of them has lockpick skill like in your screenshot.
Warrior/mage getting hidden rogue relies on the plot trigger in Ostagar. Talk to Jory then Daveth.
If you find and talk to Jory then* Daveth, you will be awarded Stealing I and II.
*For some reason the Script only initiates it if you talk to them in that order. But this means if you have a rogue (or any class playthrough) that you want to bypass these skills just find/speak in reverse order or not at all and they will not be awarded.
Hidden Rogue Talent for any Class, Daveth also awards "Hidden Rogue" and "Dark Passage"
It is exactly why I made this mod, free skills to free up skill points for the move. In a game play through I have more than enough for what I need (I even have Awakening skills/abilities in my game so my companions are skilling into that about mid game).
Also, rogues get more skill points than the other classes, so it leaves rogues to get more from their talent points.
Edit: Zevran and Liliana both are skilled in poison-making, so you do not have to skill a 3rd into max poison-making.
thx for all the replies, it's really helping. After reading the description once again, i gotta ask, is there really no way to code just Deft Hand without the hidden rogue hack?
Not really, it is a hardwired rogue only thing. You'd have to get a custom made skill like Lock Bash or Open Lock Spells, because no one was able to un-hardwire lockpick from rogues.
I am currently taking a break from modding, I am super burnt out from my latest project. Trying to recoup so I can finish my big project before winter.
Hidden Rogue unlocks the rogue skills, including Lethality. Which switches strength for cunning. Should I then spec my dual wield warrior more as a rogue to take advantage of that?
Is there any way to give non-Rogues trap detecting? I really love playing a mage but the Origins AI is sooooo bad, trying to use Zev or Leli to find traps tends to go.....poorly. Poor Alistair spends most fights with one foot stuck. I don't know why Alistair finds traps the most, he just does. -_-; I guess I'm unclear whether the way yous add Lockpicking in this mod is like some other mods that just let you open locks, or the whole skill which includes detecting/disarming traps.
For those who have the Class and Specialization Pack, the CLA_Data_Skills.gda file will conflict with this mod, however there is a workaround:
If you edit the cla_data_weaponfocus.gda file and add the Warrior/Rogue/Mage lines verbatim from this mod's GDA, and delete this mod's cla_data_skills.gda before putting it into your override folder, the mod will add the stealth skills to the classes as intended, as well as the Warlock and Ritualist's skills list. You will need to manually edit those class's LevelsPerSkill column, however, to increase their skill point awards.
This is for the base Master Manipulation folder, not the Hidden Rogue one. I don't intend to use it, but my guess is you'll need to also edit the abi_base_weaponfocus.gda to match this mod's abi_base_skills.gda. As long as the ID's are matching, the scripts should fire as intended. I'll update this post if there's any issues.
As a side note, I upped the Rogue's skill gain to 1 level per skill point, namely because I've always felt the game didn't give enough skill points for the rogue, and with all these added skills, I felt like it'd starve them for skill points even more.
34 comments
after some time.. I thought, I might need that one mod, I passed it while ago, something about lockpicking, what was it.
I tried keywords like rogue, lockpick, coercion, .... cant find it. No result.
Thanks for this mod friend, I think its kind of a breakthrough that you liberate the rouge from lockpicking.
I think many new games are like this now (eg: Pillars of Eternity), it makes sense warrior or mage can lockpick.
Also giving warriors and mages extra skill points to be in line with Rogue is a plus plus, I never realised this inconsistency before.
How about rename the mod name to, for example: Rogue Skills For All (All can Lockpick and Stealth) ?
Extra:
I know I saw you are on break atm. But since that you are the only one that poke into Skills, I might as well mention this.
Last time I played (decade ago), by the end of the games, always ended up with full Coercion (4 points) + Combat Training (4 points)
thats it. leaves very little room for other skills to explore.
If only Combat Training can be integrated into the overall game system, possibly, including all the companions.
not sure if this can be done, for example:
Level 1 ----- bonus one exclusive point -----> Combat Training (automatically learned)
Level 3 ----- bonus one exclusive point -----> Improved Training (automatically learned)
Level 6 ----- bonus one exclusive point -----> Expert Combat Training (automatically learned)
Level 10 ----- bonus one exclusive point -----> Master Combat Training (automatically learned)
Only suggestion. hope you can make it though. not sure who else can or when it will be on Nexus.
This is not a rogue/lockpicking focused mod, it just includes it, because I believe it is vital. Plus my other skill focused mod Melee Caster Class (Mage Class Reworked) also includes it, but it is not the focus of that mod either. And my Return to Ferelden (Ferelden Revision) includes hidden rogue with lockpicking item (image), and an items to learn Combat Training and Improved Training.
Plus, in my next RtF expansion I am playing with attribute exchanges for the player. I still find skills and base stats something worth modding. The problem is I don't want to make a bunch of small mods, I tend to include as collections or with mods that somewhat relate to it. But I did tag is as skills or more skills/perks, I find searching by tags is sometimes better than word searches on Nexus, IF the modder tags properly X /
The other day when I read more into it, yes it is a byproduct, but people like me (not stray too far from the vanilla), will like it I think.
its common sometimes in creation you have that intent, but then the byproduct turns into something.
There are other old mods like 'spell open lock', or 'bash open chest', also 'add 50 skill books' (too uncanny)
your way of (lockpick + stealth) relocation with UI integration is just better, seamless..
So it has been taken into consideration, nice one, I will have a look on that item for Combat Training.
Return to Ferelden seems very ambitious very advance, I will look more into it later. (other Mod like pet peeves' creature drops is nice)
Nice to hear that you are well. no need to rush, if you have reputation, people will wait for it. dont get burned out.
extra note:
at first I questioned the stealth for mage and warrior. I suppose it's alright.. I can learn it for one skill for fun, no need to master it up to four.
also Combat Tactics 'maybe' worth considering (I did not mention this because I'm worried things will become too op)
I am wondering if the way I have free skills in via a scripted in object (like in RtF's Ambience and Environment file) and have then sprinkled around the map, and if you have I or II the next object of that type will give you II or III and so on. Or by story progression instead of plot triggered. basically less scripts and not interfering with vanilla scripts.
I see.. If you intend to execute it, yes, your method with scripted items will do fine. also, I think you already have some fans, you know, they also might have something to say, probably better (I'm still very early in game, so I might get things wrong again like before)
btw, sorry if this is out of topic. Sten does not have a specialization, would be nice if there is one for him. a well integrated one (with the lore, etc). there are very few people doing skills/abilities. other than you, the most recent is symonius, but he's probably on hiatus, or finished playing the game. its not easy I think, might better work with someone, or else, get a lot of input from various opinions (fellow modders and/or comments)
by specialization, I mean Wynne (spirit healer), leliana (bard), zevran (...), ... (templar), etc. sten ( ? )
Sometimes i respec my warden but i cant relearn the skill because my CUN stat is less than 16, especially mage and warrior.
Maybe something like check if CUN less than 16 then raise it, or just add 5 CUN stat after first time talked to Jory and Daveth.
Because i tried both version, start a new warrior/mage character, none of them has lockpick skill like in your screenshot.
Also, rogues get more skill points than the other classes, so it leaves rogues to get more from their talent points.
Edit: Zevran and Liliana both are skilled in poison-making, so you do not have to skill a 3rd into max poison-making.
After reading the description once again, i gotta ask, is there really no way to code just Deft Hand without the hidden rogue hack?
Hidden Rogue unlocks the rogue skills, including Lethality. Which switches strength for cunning. Should I then spec my dual wield warrior more as a rogue to take advantage of that?
if everyone survives the redcliffe night battle, you get either survival as a reward or combat tactics, not sure which is better
completing Desperate Haven gives 1 combat tactics
jammer's stash gives 1 trap making
If you edit the cla_data_weaponfocus.gda file and add the Warrior/Rogue/Mage lines verbatim from this mod's GDA, and delete this mod's cla_data_skills.gda before putting it into your override folder, the mod will add the stealth skills to the classes as intended, as well as the Warlock and Ritualist's skills list. You will need to manually edit those class's LevelsPerSkill column, however, to increase their skill point awards.
This is for the base Master Manipulation folder, not the Hidden Rogue one. I don't intend to use it, but my guess is you'll need to also edit the abi_base_weaponfocus.gda to match this mod's abi_base_skills.gda. As long as the ID's are matching, the scripts should fire as intended. I'll update this post if there's any issues.
As a side note, I upped the Rogue's skill gain to 1 level per skill point, namely because I've always felt the game didn't give enough skill points for the rogue, and with all these added skills, I felt like it'd starve them for skill points even more.
Thanks for the sweet mod!