Thanks everyone for downloading, commenting, and endorsing.
FAQ:
Q: Female characters are not using the discreet skeleton (...meshes\actors\character\characterassets\female\skeleton.nif). A: If you are sure you have installed the file correctly and have manually verified the location, then the likely cause is that DFS is being overridden by another mod. Move the DFS plugin to the bottom of the load order! Custom race mods are not compatible with DFS, since the player/NPCs will no longer make use of the default HumanRace. Q: I cannot look at Pipboy anymore or the Pipboy view is messed up. A: Don't put a normal skeleton.nif into the 1stPerson directory. The 1stPerson skeleton is different from the normal one. To resolve the issue, remove ...meshes\actors\character\_1stPerson\CharacterAssets\female\skeleton.nif file.
Q: Does DFS support HHS, OCBP, CHW, etc.? A: With the exception of CHW (which requires the support addon, check the description for details), every other skeleton-based feature, such as HHS, 3BBB, OCBP, CBP, OCBPC, etc. work fine with DFS without needing any additional configuration (provided the skeleton itself supports HHS, 3BBB etc. obviously).
Q: Unique Player mods? A: Yes, no conflicts.
Q: What does 'biped slots flagged' mean? A: Biped slots flagged' compatibility files have two added features. First, it makes it compatible with mods like Pip-pad, Tactical Tablet, etc. This is the main feature. Second, when you mix and match outfit pieces, say a separate pant, top, and an armband, all using different outfit slots (e.g. 33, 38, 36 respectively), you will now actually be able to see the top and the armband equipped on your character in first-person view (provided of course, they have the correct 1st person models assigned).
Q: Help! I cannot download the CHW support addon. A: The support addon has been uploaded to NexusMods. Get it here. Then use the optional file in the 'Files' page to add DFS support to it. Instructions for downloading from the original Tullius board link(For Firefox, Chrome and Edge): Right-click the green image, select 'Save Link As' (not 'Save Image As'!). Once it is saved, change the file extension to '.7z' (not .zip)(the file size of the 'jpg' is approx. ~145KB). Follow the instructions above and you will be able to download it just fine, I have tested it with all three browsers. NOTE: The latest update of CHW now allows native support of additional skeletons. To use DFS with CHW, open up ClassicHolsteredWeaponsConfig.ini, scroll down to [Extra] and add the following to the AdditionalSkeleton =data\meshes\actors\character\characterassets\female\skeleton.nifso it looks like this.
I think I figured it out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but DFS only alters human female skeleton and doesn't touch others, right?
I've been trying to avoid using DFS for a few months since I have ZaZ (and all sorts of NSFW mods) and nobody in that community mentioned/tried DFS (as far as I know). Today, I've decided to give it a shot since I recently started playing the game in 3rd person and upon sneaking I can't help but notice that awful mesh. DFS allowed me to install KneeFix and keep ZaZ Extended Skeleton. Thanks so much for this light yet outstanding mod!
DFS, KneeFix and ZaZ Extended Skeleton
If anyone wants to install DFS and KneeFix whilst keeping other skeleton active (such as ZaZ Extended Skeleton) this is what I did:
1) Install ZaZ Extended Skeleton 2) Install DFS (either normal or LMCC though I went with the latter since I use LMCC) 3) Install DFS 1stPersonSkeleton with HHS Compatibility - available under 'Update Files', needed for 1st person 4) Install KneeFix - make sure to select DFS option in its installer, and then select which type/features you want 5) Move the DFS' plugin (DiscreteFemaleSkeleton.esp) to the bottom (dead last) of your plugin order (right pane in MO2)
Once you've completed the steps above, make sure the load order (left pane in MO2) looks like this: ZaZ Extended Skeleton DFS DFS 1stPersonSkeleton with HHS Compatibility KneeFix
One more thing...
On the other modding site (LL) in the 'AAF Guide' there's a 'fix' for GSS. You don't need it since it's for GSS and if you're using DFS you can just ignore the said fix.
I hope this helps!
[OLD - ignore]
Question.. I'm using ZaZ Extended Skeleton and I want to use your KneeFix since my character is female... Do I put ZaZ Skeleton files in DFS (actors/Character/CharacterAssets/female/) or do I put KneeFix skeleton there?
Asking since I did this and KneeFix is overwritting DFS (MO2) - is it supposed to be like that or I messed up?
The situation is this, I want to use AAF and 3bbb body together. However, if I used the ZEX skeleton to install the 3BBBbody and its physical presets, the female breast would lose its physical characteristics. If I use a cbbb skeleton, the male penis loses its physical properties. ZEX bones and CBBE bones are not compatible, and the only way to make them compatible is to separate the sexes. Currently the only ones that can do this are "Gender-Specific Skeletons (DEPRECATED)" or "Discrete Female skeletons (DFS)". While "DFS" is not compatible with custom race mods, "GSS" causes non-player female characters to still have their breasts hanging in the air. Supreme Creator, your faithful followers yearn for your gift. Please grant me the grace to use maya race and DFS together.
It is simple if you are a bit familiar with xEdit. To make DFS compatible with any custom race, simply open the custom race's plugin, create an override of the race record to a separate plugin, i.e. MayaRaceDFS.esp (optional, but recommended), then find ANAM - Female Skeletal Model in the record, and change its path to 'actors\Character\CharacterAssets\female\skeleton.nif' (without quotes). Save and exit, activate the new plugin in your mod manager if you created one.
And don't forget, you still need DFS and its assets to be installed.
I only use CBBE, BodyTalk, and Zex, but I keep getting a skeleton_female_facebones crash and I tried the pinned combination, but I am still getting the crash in DC. I thought by installing this mod, as well as the kneefix, I could correct the problem, but instead, I also got a skeleton.nif crash. I feel like maybe something isn't right, but I did follow the plugin order, but still get the crash. Does anyone have any thoughts?
I think the crash is related to body physics (i.e. OCBP/OCBPC, etc) rather than the skeleton. If there was anything wrong with the skeleton files, you wouldn't have been able load into your save in the first place. Also, if the load order was incorrect, the skeleton simply wouldn't work in the game.
Interesting and thank you for the prompt response. I don't use the physics mods (or 3BBB), but is there something that could be causing it aside from that? I did also try putting this mod at the bottom, but still getting the issue. -edit to add, I have been looking for a couple hours for something in google, but haven't found any fixes yet. I did find a solution to my disappearing pistol though. These seem to be the only two problems happening, but the facebones is a consistent crash and only happening with female. No issues with skeleton.nif though.
I am not sure, tbh. The main takeaway is that just because the crash log says it's skeleton-related, it doesn't mean that the crash originates from the skeleton files themselves but may rather be something that uses skeleton assets, which could be a physics plugin, broken clothing meshes, etc.
That's my guess anyway, but broken meshes are where I would look next.
I think it could have been a couple things. I took away a couple mods, one being that modified faces in DC, even though the previous game I didn't have problems, and another thing I tried is adding the physics mod. I didn't really care about physics, but thought maybe it could help. After a few hours of game time, as I experienced the crashes in the first 6 hours of a new game, I have not experienced any crashes related to that, or any crashes for that matter. I was noticing some considerable lag when I was playing to fast, such running through downtown boston and plowing through Park Station. Could have been a fluke, could have been something else, could have been the physics mod. At least I didn't get any crashes.
DFS mode is very attractive, so I'm thinking of installing it. Because I think it's necessary to distinguish between male and female skeleton to install a female-only posture mode or something. I use mod organizer, so do I install DFS here and put the female-only mode file in the directory called Discrete Female Skeleton\Meshes\Actors\Character\CharacterAces\female?
For example, Legs For Days Edition (link) also has a girly version, and if you want to use it, installing DFS additionally doesn't solve everything, but rather, you should install the girly legs for days file in Discrete Female Skeleton\Mesheshes\Actors\CharacterAces\female instead of just installing girly version and DFS independently in mod organizer, right?
Use a mod manager to install mods, but first, make sure it is set up correctly. Depending on the mod manager, you may not see any of the mod files in your actual game directory, but that's normal, just check in-game to see if mods are working. And if you do everything right, you don't have to manipulate any files manually.
Thank you bro, I noticed Skeletal Adjustements now have a option for DFS and no need to copy anything. Now I have this doubt, maybe you know about this, my load order is, I want to know if this load order is fine
F4se CBBE BodySlider OCBP all skeletal adjustments for females and bodytalk (male mods) 3BBB physics MTM 3BBB preset All bodies textures Female and Male ClothingSlides
I know this has nothing to do with your mod but In the case for building body and outfit, what body type should I use for 3bbb physics? also should I check "Build morphs" for the looks menu advanced sliders to work?
I am unsure as to what you mean by 'what body type', are you asking about the body preset? If so, you are free to use any CBBE preset you like from the list. Also, make sure to check the "Build morphs" checkbox ONLY if you actually use the Looksmenu's advanced sliders or bodygen, otherwise, depending on the number of clothing mods you have installed in your game, you will end up wasting a LOT of disk/SSD space.
yes the body preset, I was trying many and checking that option to build morphs but still I don't get physics to work. Do you know if there is something in OCBP, 3BBB physics or MTM 3B I need to edit? Also Looks menu in which load order should it be? I am placing it before CBBE and all body mods.
No, you don't need to edit anything. If your physics is not working but your character's body is also NOT stretching, that just means an issue with physics preset, i.e. a 3BBB physics preset for OCBP is not installed. All you need to do to fix it is either reinstall the 3BBB mod and override everything else OR if you use a 3rd party 3BBB physics preset, make sure to install that at the very end and then allow it again to override everything.
I ended installing vortex lol, it was easier, it might be mo2 issue, I tried in many ways even Looks menu didnt work properly but vortex did it so well, now I have to look for my old mods and use my preset for Cait with the VA voice actor face xd. Thank you bro.
SAM mode works fine, but only one skeleton of skeleton adjustment works. I think there is a problem with the tactical tablet.esp. Do you know anything?
Unfortunately, no. If you are sure something is not working with SAM as it should be and you have confirmed that you are using the correct skeleton file, check if the issue happens if you don't use DFS (make sure to reinstall the skeleton if you disable DFS). If it doesn't work even with DFS disable, you should try asking for help and report the issue on SAM's page/discord.
I have this installed because the AAF guide says it's neccessary with CBBE+3BBB+Leg/Neck Fix. I'm getting a lot of CTDs though and CLASSIC says it's a body mess issue.
To be clear, If I install the following (in order) it should be good, without any manual moving of files?
BodyTalk CBBE CBBE 3BBB TWB TWB 3BBB DSF CHW for other skeletons CHW-DSF Patch XeX Skeleton
It should still be. -Install Zex as normal and use the DFS option with installing Skeletal Adjustments. -Load order is more important than install order. Make sure DFS is a the very bottom of your load order.
CTD? That could mean you have missing files. But then again, I am no AAF user so take my advice with a grain of salt on this matter.
Sorry... by install first last I mean setup of mod position, with install last = load order bottom. ZeX , AAF, and Bodytalk documentation all say nothing at all should overwrite ZeX
THBrows and this mod have a conflict issue. if DFS overrides THBrows none of the mods eyebrow options show up in looksmenu, if THBrows overrides DFS then the eyebrows show up but im not sure DFS is working (cant tell sorry lol)
If you allow THBrows to override DFS, it means DFS will not work. You will have to choose which one is more important and then use that OR make a compatibility patch and you can use both together.
or better yet since both these mods have been out for ages the authors could idk fix their mistakes or update these mods & make the compatibility patches themselves because they are the ones who made these mods and understand them best (heresy i know). anyways uninstalled DFS and that completely broke my game. char movs 2x as fast legs/knees are all wonky. gg gg
Hey Zoomer. It took me literally TWO minutes to open FO4EDIT and make a patch for LooksMenu to make it work. Which includes THbrows and more. Instead of being disrespectful towards mod authors who DO THIS FOR FREE IN THEIR FREE TIME FOR YOUR ENJOYMENT. Maybe try not to be a dick and show some respect.
Hi, I'm using tactical tablet plus its LMCC patch, and DFS biped slot flagged + LMCC patch, but tactical tablet still pops out in 1st person, and I cannot help myself why.
If the tablet mod works, then it means that DFS/patch is working as expected. Whatever you are seeing in first-person view is not caused by it but rather by mods/items with faulty first-person meshes (these are usually hidden by default, but may get exposed due to the tablet mod's requirements). Try using the tablet mod while wearing a different outfit or nothing at all.
405 comments
FAQ:
Q: Female characters are not using the discreet skeleton (...meshes\actors\character\characterassets\female\skeleton.nif).
A: If you are sure you have installed the file correctly and have manually verified the location, then the likely cause is that DFS is being overridden by another mod. Move the DFS plugin to the bottom of the load order!
Custom race mods are not compatible with DFS, since the player/NPCs will no longer make use of the default HumanRace.
Q: I cannot look at Pipboy anymore or the Pipboy view is messed up.
A: Don't put a normal skeleton.nif into the 1stPerson directory. The 1stPerson skeleton is different from the normal one. To resolve the issue, remove ...meshes\actors\character\_1stPerson\CharacterAssets\female\skeleton.nif file.
Q: Does DFS support HHS, OCBP, CHW, etc.?
A: With the exception of CHW (which requires the support addon, check the description for details), every other skeleton-based feature, such as HHS, 3BBB, OCBP, CBP, OCBPC, etc. work fine with DFS without needing any additional configuration (provided the skeleton itself supports HHS, 3BBB etc. obviously).
Q: Unique Player mods?
A: Yes, no conflicts.
Q: What does 'biped slots flagged' mean?
A: Biped slots flagged' compatibility files have two added features. First, it makes it compatible with mods like Pip-pad, Tactical Tablet, etc. This is the main feature. Second, when you mix and match outfit pieces, say a separate pant, top, and an armband, all using different outfit slots (e.g. 33, 38, 36 respectively), you will now actually be able to see the top and the armband equipped on your character in first-person view (provided of course, they have the correct 1st person models assigned).
Q: Help! I cannot download the CHW support addon.
A: The support addon has been uploaded to NexusMods. Get it here. Then use the optional file in the 'Files' page to add DFS support to it.
Instructions for downloading from the original Tullius board link (For Firefox, Chrome and Edge): Right-click the green image, select 'Save Link As' (not 'Save Image As'!). Once it is saved, change the file extension to '.7z' (not .zip)(the file size of the 'jpg' is approx. ~145KB).
Follow the instructions above and you will be able to download it just fine, I have tested it with all three browsers.
NOTE: The latest update of CHW now allows native support of additional skeletons. To use DFS with CHW, open up ClassicHolsteredWeaponsConfig.ini, scroll down to [Extra] and add the following to the AdditionalSkeleton
=data\meshes\actors\character\characterassets\female\skeleton.nifso it looks like this.I think I figured it out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but DFS only alters human female skeleton and doesn't touch others, right?
I've been trying to avoid using DFS for a few months since I have ZaZ (and all sorts of NSFW mods) and nobody in that community mentioned/tried DFS (as far as I know). Today, I've decided to give it a shot since I recently started playing the game in 3rd person and upon sneaking I can't help but notice that awful mesh. DFS allowed me to install KneeFix and keep ZaZ Extended Skeleton. Thanks so much for this light yet outstanding mod!
DFS, KneeFix and ZaZ Extended Skeleton
If anyone wants to install DFS and KneeFix whilst keeping other skeleton active (such as ZaZ Extended Skeleton) this is what I did:
1) Install ZaZ Extended Skeleton
2) Install DFS (either normal or LMCC though I went with the latter since I use LMCC)
3) Install DFS 1stPersonSkeleton with HHS Compatibility - available under 'Update Files', needed for 1st person
4) Install KneeFix - make sure to select DFS option in its installer, and then select which type/features you want
5) Move the DFS' plugin (DiscreteFemaleSkeleton.esp) to the bottom (dead last) of your plugin order (right pane in MO2)
Once you've completed the steps above, make sure the load order (left pane in MO2) looks like this:
ZaZ Extended Skeleton
DFS
DFS 1stPersonSkeleton with HHS Compatibility
KneeFix
One more thing...
On the other modding site (LL) in the 'AAF Guide' there's a 'fix' for GSS. You don't need it since it's for GSS and if you're using DFS you can just ignore the said fix.
I hope this helps!
[OLD - ignore]
Question.. I'm using ZaZ Extended Skeleton and I want to use your KneeFix since my character is female... Do I put ZaZ Skeleton files in DFS (actors/Character/CharacterAssets/female/) or do I put KneeFix skeleton there?
Asking since I did this and KneeFix is overwritting DFS (MO2) - is it supposed to be like that or I messed up?
Thank YOU for making and sharing these mods, really looking forward to seeing what you'll create next!
However, if I used the ZEX skeleton to install the 3BBBbody and its physical presets, the female breast would lose its physical characteristics.
If I use a cbbb skeleton, the male penis loses its physical properties.
ZEX bones and CBBE bones are not compatible, and the only way to make them compatible is to separate the sexes.
Currently the only ones that can do this are "Gender-Specific Skeletons (DEPRECATED)" or "Discrete Female skeletons (DFS)".
While "DFS" is not compatible with custom race mods, "GSS" causes non-player female characters to still have their breasts hanging in the air.
Supreme Creator, your faithful followers yearn for your gift. Please grant me the grace to use maya race and DFS together.
And don't forget, you still need DFS and its assets to be installed.
Also, if the load order was incorrect, the skeleton simply wouldn't work in the game.
-edit to add, I have been looking for a couple hours for something in google, but haven't found any fixes yet. I did find a solution to my disappearing pistol though. These seem to be the only two problems happening, but the facebones is a consistent crash and only happening with female. No issues with skeleton.nif though.
The main takeaway is that just because the crash log says it's skeleton-related, it doesn't mean that the crash originates from the skeleton files themselves but may rather be something that uses skeleton assets, which could be a physics plugin, broken clothing meshes, etc.
That's my guess anyway, but broken meshes are where I would look next.
For example, Legs For Days Edition (link) also has a girly version, and if you want to use it, installing DFS additionally doesn't solve everything, but rather, you should install the girly legs for days file in Discrete Female Skeleton\Mesheshes\Actors\CharacterAces\female instead of just installing girly version and DFS independently in mod organizer, right?
Depending on the mod manager, you may not see any of the mod files in your actual game directory, but that's normal, just check in-game to see if mods are working. And if you do everything right, you don't have to manipulate any files manually.
Now I have this doubt, maybe you know about this, my load order is, I want to know if this load order is fine
F4se
CBBE
BodySlider
OCBP
all skeletal adjustments for females and bodytalk (male mods)
3BBB physics
MTM 3BBB preset
All bodies textures Female and Male
ClothingSlides
Is OCBP first or 3BBB Physics?
Always install the main 3BBB mod last, and only override it if you want to use a 3rd party 3BBB preset (like MTM's in your case).
Also, make sure to check the "Build morphs" checkbox ONLY if you actually use the Looksmenu's advanced sliders or bodygen, otherwise, depending on the number of clothing mods you have installed in your game, you will end up wasting a LOT of disk/SSD space.
All you need to do to fix it is either reinstall the 3BBB mod and override everything else OR if you use a 3rd party 3BBB physics preset, make sure to install that at the very end and then allow it again to override everything.
I think there is a problem with the tactical tablet.esp. Do you know anything?
If you are sure something is not working with SAM as it should be and you have confirmed that you are using the correct skeleton file, check if the issue happens if you don't use DFS (make sure to reinstall the skeleton if you disable DFS). If it doesn't work even with DFS disable, you should try asking for help and report the issue on SAM's page/discord.
Thank you for your answer.
I have this installed because the AAF guide says it's neccessary with CBBE+3BBB+Leg/Neck Fix. I'm getting a lot of CTDs though and CLASSIC says it's a body mess issue.
To be clear, If I install the following (in order) it should be good, without any manual moving of files?
BodyTalk
CBBE
CBBE 3BBB
TWB
TWB 3BBB
DSF
CHW for other skeletons
CHW-DSF Patch
XeX Skeleton
(the above suggests XeX should go first)
-Install Zex as normal and use the DFS option with installing Skeletal Adjustments.
-Load order is more important than install order. Make sure DFS is a the very bottom of your load order.
CTD? That could mean you have missing files. But then again, I am no AAF user so take my advice with a grain of salt on this matter.
You will have to choose which one is more important and then use that OR make a compatibility patch and you can use both together.
Try using the tablet mod while wearing a different outfit or nothing at all.