Okay. After the changes the guns are in-line with the other ranged weapons. First time, since ive started playing this mod, i do not feel like a cheating piece of xxx over it.
Ive also noticed the revolving guns actually hitting stuff. Theyre okay, especially when placed on top of a building and facing a locked gate... i probably still wouldnt use them in the field, but at least the defensive part of them is useful.
So... lets have a little bit of criticism up in this b&@*$:
-pipe rifle is fine - its more or less a toothpick, with slightly higher damage output per shot, which you would expect from a gun.
-boomstick - i guess its a one shotter somewhere between the toothpick and a ranger? Or ranger and oldworld mk1/2? Its alright.
-caravan gun, survival rifle and repeater - im on the fence when it comes to these three. For three reasons: 1, The total damage of all of these is around 100-120 on a unarmored target, even if those shots land all over the target, rather than a single spot. 2. You actually fire a single round with these, even if its in a burst. Highly ammo efficient. 3. Damage dealt, regardless of "physical" damage, hurts the blood pool. This can "Health Loss KO" anyone, given a few hits... and theres a lot of hits coming in with these three.
-holy musket - i have nothing to say about it, since ive never actually used it, but its a low level gun with a bonus vs other races. I have no complaints.
-assassins pipe - nothing special, to be honest. Long reload time combined with average damage. It doesnt stick out, apart from the blood loss factor.
-modern rifle - and here we come to some major issues with this mod. This rifle, at master level, deals more damage than the eagles cross at master level, and does it quicker, due to shorter reload speed.
-ancient rifle - im just going to drop this in: me, and two more of my gunners have snuck up on No-Face. We all, in sync, opened fire at him from range where i knew we wouldnt miss. Before he went down, he one shotted one of my squaddies and took off my main guys leg. Master level ancient rifle deals 140-217 (or so) damage. Are you kidding me?!
-combat rifle - it deals about 100 damage per bullet, spread across the whole target, combined with blood loss, leading to quick "Blood loss KO's" - similar level of bullshit to the ancient rifle, with similar concerns, as with the caravan gun, repeater and survival rifle.
-revolving rifle - its a cute toy... thats about it. The damage output and rate of fire on this thing doesnt matter, when you cant hit the broad side of a barn. Whats the point? I guess it doesnt take power to operate and can be set up in the field, so its got that going for it. Needs better accuracy.
-the semo-auto ancient rifle - ive never used it, but i imagine its the same as ancient rifle with quicker reload. F no to that thing! Even if it is unique! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thats the state of things. How can it be balanced and improved?
First off - remove some guns. Theres no need for this many guns doing more or less the same thing (yes, yes, i know oldworld mk1 and mk2 are basically the same too). Keep the repeater and boomstick, perhaps, but the caravan gun and survival rifle is superfluous, as is the assassins pipe.
Second - reduce the damage output of the top tier guns significantly. Even below eagle cross levels. The historical reason for guns pushing out armor use was their ability to penetrate it. Crossbows dealt far more damage than early guns, but late crossbows had issues penetrating armor, while guns did not.
Instead of giving guns ridiculous damage output - give each of them armor penetration of 50-60%. This way, the damage will be kept, while they will have their niche in the grand scheme of things. As it stands now, guns kill horribly fast, and it all comes down to who has the better shooters. Why choose inferior crossbows, when modern rifles both take their place and surpass them in overall performance?
Hope the dev doesnt take this post personally. Im just trying to be helpful.
For the armor penetration sadly the game handles it differently than using percentages. Armor has a flat value of harpoon resistance that gets subtracted when a projectile hits that armor. Armor pen could be done with damage bonuses to races like bonus damage vs robots but not that many enemies wear high harpoon resistance armor so a flat bonus against all humans wouldn't work. The other way to do armor pen is to just go ham with the damage to outmatch the harpoon resistance. Or make the enemy bleed to death with bleed multipliers.
With the "armor pen" I will get them to do more damage against robots and a slightly less against other targets where applicable or go more in favor for damage against animals and less vs robots for stuff like the boom stick. As for damage, for some the damage will be modified to be more in line with the vanilla crossbows, special case for the multi shot guns would be to just gut the bleed damage.
As for removal of guns that is not a good option considering the age of the mod and that some users might like to use a gun that would be removed. At this point it would be better to make a version with a reduced number of guns than remove them.
Huh... so all that can be done is via the harpoon damage resistance? Well, that puts a damper on things.
Still, a crossbow hit on a unarmored target should do (far) more damage than a dinky bullet. These guns dont use fragmenting ammunition, so the damage shouldnt be higher than that of crossbows. Instead, crossbows have low reload speeds, which a lever/bolt operated gun should overtake easily.
I honestly wouldnt give any of the guns higher damage than that of the eagles cross. Modern rifle should probably sit at around 70-80 at masters grade. Ancient rifle perhaps in line with the eagles cross... maybe a bit higher (with some bonuses vs races?). The concern of burst fire guns remains, though.
Its a touchy subject, given the limitations...
EDIT: will give the update a try. Curious what changes youve made.
One or more mods are missing or in incorrect order.[It`s only this mod in list] Continue anyway? Yes/no >>Yes... Launch game/loaing
___________________________________ | Mod error(s)(ignored files) | |Filed to load the following mod(s):| | Working gans | | [Ok] | ----------------------------------------------------
Manualy installed Kenshi mods need to have the same file name as the .mod file in them. Like in the image here. If the error is still there maybe reinstall the mod? I'm confused as to what causes this.
Greetings. Sorry for my Broken ingrish(Fod....i reely dont know what is it). Unfortunetly reinstalling mod/game does`nt fix the problem. But[ t) ]......when i`m download "Working_guns-825-14-1616494801" version fom another(probable pirate) site, everything is working well.
Could add some balance on prices, double them and remove bullet stack and add more price, make guns deadly and `high-tech`, otherwise the idea is great but the Modern rifle pretty much outclass any weapon in the game and only really tune down on heavy armored enemies with toughness, still if you hit a gap they go down in one shot, as im in favor of immersion kenshi balance is all arround similar to fallout `gota be gamey to have balance`.
It functions without problems, run the mod by itself and the game is fine. What I have in the works or is incomplete are only placed in the gun test start and don't affect anything else. Maybe its a possible conflict with another mod that changes npcs or adds new towns. As far as I know thats the only thing that could cause such a thing.
Air rifles in real life can be pumped with a standard off the shelf bicycle tire pump and can be about equal to a .22LR round. In case anyone care to add something to this mod. Would be interesting to have a gun like this as such guns can be fit with arrows too.
Pressure air rifles would make more sense logically anyway, than combustible chemical based guns. Mainly because the logic of combustible firearms in this world seems out of place. Where as the pressure based guns are possible, logical and dont require a chemical reaction. Which also requires a logic to where the chemical agents source from.
The larger the rifle, the more shots the rifle could have before requiring a repump. The pumps could be a new item as would be the ammo. Metal pellets like a slug or a round ball and arrows/bolts(all depending on pressure and gun size)
30 comments
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JumpDo I just dump the whole file into the mods folder, or do I have to send certain files elsewhere within the game?
Ive also noticed the revolving guns actually hitting stuff. Theyre okay, especially when placed on top of a building and facing a locked gate... i probably still wouldnt use them in the field, but at least the defensive part of them is useful.
Good mod!
-pipe rifle is fine - its more or less a toothpick, with slightly higher damage output per shot, which you would expect from a gun.
-boomstick - i guess its a one shotter somewhere between the toothpick and a ranger? Or ranger and oldworld mk1/2? Its alright.
-caravan gun, survival rifle and repeater - im on the fence when it comes to these three. For three reasons:
1, The total damage of all of these is around 100-120 on a unarmored target, even if those shots land all over the target, rather than a single spot.
2. You actually fire a single round with these, even if its in a burst. Highly ammo efficient.
3. Damage dealt, regardless of "physical" damage, hurts the blood pool. This can "Health Loss KO" anyone, given a few hits... and theres a lot of hits coming in with these three.
-holy musket - i have nothing to say about it, since ive never actually used it, but its a low level gun with a bonus vs other races. I have no complaints.
-assassins pipe - nothing special, to be honest. Long reload time combined with average damage. It doesnt stick out, apart from the blood loss factor.
-modern rifle - and here we come to some major issues with this mod. This rifle, at master level, deals more damage than the eagles cross at master level, and does it quicker, due to shorter reload speed.
-ancient rifle - im just going to drop this in: me, and two more of my gunners have snuck up on No-Face. We all, in sync, opened fire at him from range where i knew we wouldnt miss. Before he went down, he one shotted one of my squaddies and took off my main guys leg. Master level ancient rifle deals 140-217 (or so) damage. Are you kidding me?!
-combat rifle - it deals about 100 damage per bullet, spread across the whole target, combined with blood loss, leading to quick "Blood loss KO's" - similar level of bullshit to the ancient rifle, with similar concerns, as with the caravan gun, repeater and survival rifle.
-revolving rifle - its a cute toy... thats about it. The damage output and rate of fire on this thing doesnt matter, when you cant hit the broad side of a barn. Whats the point? I guess it doesnt take power to operate and can be set up in the field, so its got that going for it. Needs better accuracy.
-the semo-auto ancient rifle - ive never used it, but i imagine its the same as ancient rifle with quicker reload. F no to that thing! Even if it is unique!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats the state of things. How can it be balanced and improved?
First off - remove some guns. Theres no need for this many guns doing more or less the same thing (yes, yes, i know oldworld mk1 and mk2 are basically the same too). Keep the repeater and boomstick, perhaps, but the caravan gun and survival rifle is superfluous, as is the assassins pipe.
Second - reduce the damage output of the top tier guns significantly. Even below eagle cross levels. The historical reason for guns pushing out armor use was their ability to penetrate it. Crossbows dealt far more damage than early guns, but late crossbows had issues penetrating armor, while guns did not.
Instead of giving guns ridiculous damage output - give each of them armor penetration of 50-60%. This way, the damage will be kept, while they will have their niche in the grand scheme of things. As it stands now, guns kill horribly fast, and it all comes down to who has the better shooters. Why choose inferior crossbows, when modern rifles both take their place and surpass them in overall performance?
Hope the dev doesnt take this post personally. Im just trying to be helpful.
For the armor penetration sadly the game handles it differently than using percentages. Armor has a flat value of harpoon resistance that gets subtracted when a projectile hits that armor. Armor pen could be done with damage bonuses to races like bonus damage vs robots but not that many enemies wear high harpoon resistance armor so a flat bonus against all humans wouldn't work. The other way to do armor pen is to just go ham with the damage to outmatch the harpoon resistance. Or make the enemy bleed to death with bleed multipliers.
With the "armor pen" I will get them to do more damage against robots and a slightly less against other targets where applicable or go more in favor for damage against animals and less vs robots for stuff like the boom stick. As for damage, for some the damage will be modified to be more in line with the vanilla crossbows, special case for the multi shot guns would be to just gut the bleed damage.
As for removal of guns that is not a good option considering the age of the mod and that some users might like to use a gun that would be removed. At this point it would be better to make a version with a reduced number of guns than remove them.
Still, a crossbow hit on a unarmored target should do (far) more damage than a dinky bullet. These guns dont use fragmenting ammunition, so the damage shouldnt be higher than that of crossbows. Instead, crossbows have low reload speeds, which a lever/bolt operated gun should overtake easily.
I honestly wouldnt give any of the guns higher damage than that of the eagles cross. Modern rifle should probably sit at around 70-80 at masters grade. Ancient rifle perhaps in line with the eagles cross... maybe a bit higher (with some bonuses vs races?). The concern of burst fire guns remains, though.
Its a touchy subject, given the limitations...
EDIT: will give the update a try. Curious what changes youve made.
Continue anyway?
Yes/no
>>Yes...
Launch game/loaing
___________________________________
| Mod error(s)(ignored files) |
|Filed to load the following mod(s):|
| Working gans |
| [Ok] |
----------------------------------------------------
Unfortunetly reinstalling mod/game does`nt fix the problem. But[ t) ]......when i`m download "Working_guns-825-14-1616494801" version fom another(probable pirate) site, everything is working well.
Pressure air rifles would make more sense logically anyway, than combustible chemical based guns. Mainly because the logic of combustible firearms in this world seems out of place. Where as the pressure based guns are possible, logical and dont require a chemical reaction. Which also requires a logic to where the chemical agents source from.
The larger the rifle, the more shots the rifle could have before requiring a repump. The pumps could be a new item as would be the ammo. Metal pellets like a slug or a round ball and arrows/bolts(all depending on pressure and gun size)
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1
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Jump