Realish Weapons & Armor modifies: - Armor: RWA is incompatible with any mod that changes armor defense values. - Weapons: RWA is incompatible with any mod that changes weapon damage values. - Head Damage: RWA is incompatible with any mod that changes NPC body part damage values. - Face Protection: RWA is incompatible with any mod that changes face protection values.
- This mod is save game compatible and safe to remove or re-add at any time. It does not add or remove any item from the game, it only forces the game to read its changes to values rather than the base game's.
- This overhaul only scales default game items. It does not scale any item added by a mod. If there is a mod you like that introduces new items to the game, it will not modified by this overhaul. If you want modded items to be consistent with this overhaul, you'll need to ask the mod author to make a version that has item values scaling with this mod, or some approximation thereof. All weapon and armor scaling details have been listed in the mod Description or Articles.
Projectile rules are based on how RWA scales armor differently than default KCD2. RWA scales armor based on real-world functionality, thus, all armors are effective at absorbing or deflecting Slash damage, but less so Stab, and even less so Smash. These new rules will incentivize the use of different projectiles for different situations, rather than using one projectile type as catch-all.
- Smash/Stab ratio for Plate in RWA is roughly 2/3, compared to 1/4 in KCD2. - Damage scaling for Smash/Stab/Slash: -15/0/+15
Slash: 'Broadhead' will always scale higher (+15), doing more damage to unarmored targets but significantly less to armored targets. - Wounding arrows/bolts. - Black Arrows.
Stab: 'Needle Bodkin' will be the median damage (0), and not specialized against any target. - Long-range arrows. - Sharpshooter bolts. - Fine Bolts. - Non-specialized arrows/bolts.
Smash: 'Bodkin' will always scale lower (-15), doing less damage to unarmored targets but significantly more to armored targets. - Piercing arrows/bolts.
Hybrid: will scale multiple damage types. - Hunting arrows/bolts, very effective vs unarmored, ineffective vs armored. - Ball ammunition, very effective vs unarmored, light or medium armor, and moderately effective vs Plate.
Outlier: - Scattershot deals massive Slash damage, effective vs unarmored and light armor.
I've reworked a few perks related to my mods, but to overhaul all perks, dunno. I'd have to rewrite a lot of stuff, and there's the localization issues. I'll think about it.
oh yes plz!!!! great mod series by the way, the best in fact... anyway totally get it if a realishperks is too much but damn that would really compliment your body of work mi lord!
I would suggest changing only a few perks which normally makes Henry "a god in human body", not all of them. And yes translating all of perks would be hell for me as I'm not english native. xD
Hi Actalo, I would like to thanks for great mod. One question, why shield defense values are so small (50-60-75) ? Now its harder to block with shield that with sword, so its rather counter intuitive.
To my knowledge: - There seems to be very little information on whether a shield replaces or adds to defense rating. I've only found user assertions but nothing definitive. - Higher defense rating extends the window for Perfect Block and Master Strike, so parrying and riposte. I don't think shields should factor into to these two combat aspects. - Defense rating has no effect on Normal Block.
If I'm shown definitive proof that shields replace a weapon's defense, then I might buff shield defense a bit, but not much, since again, defense is NOT for Normal Block.
Hi! I’ve discussed the Billhook damage anomaly (mentioned in the Realish Warhorse post) with some KCD2 streamers recently. We suspect that if a weapon has 0 native damage in a certain type, it might not have a collision box assigned for that damage type at all. On top of that, the way armor reduces damage in this game can make low damage types almost completely ineffective. So, for example, if a weapon like the Raven’s Beak has been given multiple damage types to compensate weaken in Blunt damage, the added types might not actually do anything in practice—effectively just nerfing the weapon. Take the Billhook as an example: if it has 97 Slash, 0 Stab, and 49 Blunt, it seems to deal either 97 Slash or 49 Blunt, depending on which part of the weapon hits the enemy. It doesn’t do something like (97 Slash – Slash armor) + (49 Blunt – Blunt armor), and it never deals Stab damage at all—presumably because it lacks a collision box for it. Does that sound accurate to you? And did you take this behavior into account when designing the mod?
- There is something 'off' with the Billhook. It doesn't seem to be doing its assigned damage, at least, in the numbers seen in tool-tip or designated in game files. I don't have specifics since I haven't tested it extensively.
- Whether or not a weapon is capable of dealing damage not assigned to it by default... well, it's easy to confirm or disprove. Most, if not all, maces have not been assigned Slash damage. Make a mod giving them only slash damage and hit an enemy.
- Do weapons deal both Slash and Smash at the same time? Yes. On the cut attack. Can they deal Smash or Slash on the thrust? No, but one exception are a subclass of maces (subclass 1) that deal Smash on thrust. There's already another thread about this.
- In this Posts tab, there's already a massive thread of comments discussing split damage, I ain't going to respond and start another.
Really interesting and great mod (great mods I should say, because I'm also using some of your other mods). The fights are so much more interesting now. I still have some issues regarding some rules about combat (vanilla behaviour I suspect), like I had a few occurences of the enemy doing an insane amount of damage with just one masterstrike with a duelling longsword while I was wearing some of the best armour and with almost half my stamina. But anyway, strange quirks aside it's a really great experience.
I could have one complaint though, even if I rarely use ranged weapons for actual combat, I feel like not being able to at least incapacitate people not wearing quality armor with the rampart crossbow is a bit much. Because even if I know that I won't kill my target, I hate seeing it immediately run towards me and start bashing me while I'm still switching weapons. But oh well, can't have it all.
Master-strikes do more damage than normal attacks, and taking shots to the face from a sword will hurt, I recommend wearing a visor.
Get the perks "Crippling Shot" 1 & 2 and use Realish Wounds. KCD2 locked realistic bolt/arrow reactions behind perks and injuries.
As far as Crossbow damage, the Reinforced Windlass Crossbow does 450+ damage on a high level Henry with the best Bolts, whereas the best Longsword, Radzig's, does around 110+ damage. That's not including all the Perk bonuses that go into ranged weapons. I'm not sure exactly how much more powerful you'd like me to make Crossbows, but realistically, 4x the power of a two-handed Longsword thrust seems enough.
I have another question if I may, because I'm curious about how some combat mechanics work and you may know yourself.
Improved piercing arrows do 50/50 mixed damage, whereas improved long range arrows do 100 piercing damage. I noticed that plate armour tend to have somewhat around a third more armour against piercing than blunt, does it means than the piercing arrow type do in fine have a lower efficiency against heavily armoured enemies ? Or is there some hidden effect to arrows, like bypassing some armour value ?
I choose arrows but I have the same interrogation about axes and other mixed damage weapons. Dividing weapon damage against two armor values, as long as none of them is zero, should be less efficient, no ? Which is fair for axes, but the "piercing" arrow thing I don't get.
Thank you and sorry for taking your time like that.
I'm updating and testing mods on Nexus right now, so it's easy to answer questions. The damage is not divided, it's not a percent or fraction - it's more like a damage coefficient, multiplied, then added together for an overall total. So if you have a 200 power bow and use a 50/50 Arrow, the total will be the same as a 100 Arrow, just different types of damage. And to your point on armor types, if you add up the defense values of armor, especially with my mods, it goes like this:
Slash damage - least effective against armor, as most armors have, on average, generally higher Slash defense. Stab damage- moderately effective against armor, as most armors have, on average, moderate Stab defense. Smash damage - most effective against armor, as most armors have, on average, lower Stab defense.
There may be ways to add effects to damage types, like Slash increases chance for bleed, or Smash increases chance for injury, etc, but I'm not there yet.
Let's say I'm doing 100 raw damage with my bow regardless of the arrow type, as long as the arrow have a 100, 50/50 or 75/25 damage coefficient, it still means that I should do either 100 piercing, 50 piecing and 50 blunt or 75 piercing and 25 blunt, no ?
In really crude theory, my understanding is that 100 piercing damage against a 20 piercing and 10 blunt armour means 80 damage bypassing the armour and 50 piercing damage and 50 blunt damage against a 20 piercing and 10 blunt armour means 70 damage bypassing the armour.
I may be completely off, and as english is not my native language I may have just missed your point.
Alright, so it should mean that outside of niche cases piercing arrow types are weaker than long range arrow types but in some situations a bit more versatile, like axes.
Thank you for your patience I just needed to satisfy my curiosity.
Haha, and here I thought I got it. But really, I don't want to bother you, if I don't properly understand this it's not the end of the world we could just drop the matter entirely.
But if not, here is my previous example :
Let's say a bow that does 100 damage is used against an armour part that has 20 piercing and 10 blunt armor.
Total damage that goes through armorTotal damage that goes through armor
80 | 030 | 40 (=70)
It's the same type of result with most of the armor and damage values is it not ? The one that concentrate on one type of damage will always end up on top, unless :
- one of the armour type is 0, in that case the two arrows perform the same. - the armour completely negates the two types of damage. (armour of 100+|50+), in that case the two arrows also perform the same. - the piercing damage of the long range arrow type is negated but the blunt damage of the piercing type is not. Which in this example would mean an armour value of 100 piercing and <50 blunt. But in game the blunt defense is almost always around 50-70% of the piercing defense so it shouldn't happen often.
Yes, you were right before, but it seemed as if you drew the wrong conclusion about each damage type's overall efficacy. My point was that they're all equal in numerical value. There's no weighted advantage between different damage types.
Well I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude, but that's a little silly? Shouldn't the enhanced Piercing Arrow be better against an armored target than a Longe-range arrow? But because it's a 50/50 arrow while longe range is 100/0, the piercing one does less armor.
Dunno what you mean by 50/50. Projectiles were based around KCD2 default defense-type ratios, which were roughly 1/4 Smash to Stab ratio for most Plate armor.
Say the arrow is 50 Stab with 50 Smash, and say the bow power is 1.5 multiplier. 75 Stab 75 Smash
this whole conversation reminds me of Dark Souls split damage types, where it's the same. Essentially, split damage weapon types (say, 'Normal' + 'Lightning') were always considered inferior in the community because damage is blocked twice, once for each damage type.
There are 2 solutions; either 1) you carefully balance each scenario so that they do not become underpowered - i.e. split damage weapons will always have more total damage, or 2) you stick with 1 damage type.
As not every enemy is individually carefully balanced in KCD2, 2) is the better option. You could just buff the piercing damage of piercing arrows further, but this would make it better than anything else against unarmored opponents as well, which is not true to real life. And on the other hand, for hunting, you are dealing with 0 armor enemies with a lot of health that you want to take down in 1 shot, but you don't want hunting arrows to become armored knight slayers either.
So I agree with Actalo's reasoning in the Articles section: - pure blunt damage for armor piercing weapons, as armor is weakest vs. blunt in gameplay terms. Relatively low total damage so that unarmored opponents can survive piercing arrows (arrows fly through with only a small puncture). - Big total damage for hunting arrows, but split across the 3 damage types, which fares poorly vs. armor. - Pierce (and slash) for the regular arrows, which is a middle ground between lethal vs. unarmored humans, non-lethal vs. armored humans and vs. animals with a big health pool.
EDIT: only now did I read the description on the Test branch >.< So, does 2.44 include the reworked projectile values listed above? What's the difference with the 3.1 test branch, the particular damage scaling? (-10 blunt, 0 stab, +10 slash)? How does the damage scaling work, is it a separate scaling from the reworked projectile values? Or is it just an explanation for how the values were chosen? Does the scaling work only for projectiles or for all weapons in the test branch?
2.44 removed split damages, but didn't take into account defense value differences between Stab, Slash, and Smash, in armor. The Test Branch aims to remedy this and 'fix' ranged combat in RWA.
There's 10 damage difference between each. I'm hoping there's a big enough difference in overall damage (scaled up from weapon power and stats), that it makes sense to use Enhanced Wounding Bolts (Slash) on face-shots or unarmored opponents, Sharpshooter Bolts (Stab) on light or medium armor, and Enhanced Piercing Bolts (Smash) on Plate or heavy armor.
Edit:
The only combined-damage or hybrids left are Lead Ball and Hunting: - Lead Ball will deliver massive combined damage to unarmored or light armored, but some Stab damage mitigated by medium armored, and most Stab damage mitigated by heavily armored. The result being insta-kill for all unarmored or light armored, most medium armored, and some heavily armored. - Hunting, as you said, should have combined high damage to kill game but otherwise ineffective against armor, due to its low individual damage in type.
Keep in mind, too, that I scale damage designed to accompany injuries and bleeding mods (specifically mine or one other). Granted, most people who use this mod, don't wanna use injury or bleed mods, but I can't help that.
I wonder if changes in armor weight from Realistic Weight mod are compatible with Armor values from this mod, rn I use Lite version which doesnt change armor for now.
From above mod: "Realistic armor changes all armors and clothes in game so it should not be compatible with anything that changes specific armor values like prices and defense stats."
Shoudn't isn't same as "isn't" so there is slight hope. xD
I've had limited success getting his mod to work with mine. Normally I use his mod for weights, nutrition values, visibility, charisma, and delete all other fields that would conflict with my mods. Then I rename all his files so my mod loads after his, alphabetically.
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Jump- Armor: RWA is incompatible with any mod that changes armor defense values.
- Weapons: RWA is incompatible with any mod that changes weapon damage values.
- Head Damage: RWA is incompatible with any mod that changes NPC body part damage values.
- Face Protection: RWA is incompatible with any mod that changes face protection values.
- This mod is save game compatible and safe to remove or re-add at any time. It does not add or remove any item from the game, it only forces the game to read its changes to values rather than the base game's.
- This overhaul only scales default game items. It does not scale any item added by a mod. If there is a mod you like that introduces new items to the game, it will not modified by this overhaul. If you want modded items to be consistent with this overhaul, you'll need to ask the mod author to make a version that has item values scaling with this mod, or some approximation thereof. All weapon and armor scaling details have been listed in the mod Description or Articles.
Projectile rules are based on how RWA scales armor differently than default KCD2. RWA scales armor based on real-world functionality, thus, all armors are effective at absorbing or deflecting Slash damage, but less so Stab, and even less so Smash. These new rules will incentivize the use of different projectiles for different situations, rather than using one projectile type as catch-all.
- Smash/Stab ratio for Plate in RWA is roughly 2/3, compared to 1/4 in KCD2.
- Damage scaling for Smash/Stab/Slash: -15/0/+15
Slash: 'Broadhead' will always scale higher (+15), doing more damage to unarmored targets but significantly less to armored targets.
- Wounding arrows/bolts.
- Black Arrows.
Stab: 'Needle Bodkin' will be the median damage (0), and not specialized against any target.
- Long-range arrows.
- Sharpshooter bolts.
- Fine Bolts.
- Non-specialized arrows/bolts.
Smash: 'Bodkin' will always scale lower (-15), doing less damage to unarmored targets but significantly more to armored targets.
- Piercing arrows/bolts.
Hybrid: will scale multiple damage types.
- Hunting arrows/bolts, very effective vs unarmored, ineffective vs armored.
- Ball ammunition, very effective vs unarmored, light or medium armor, and moderately effective vs Plate.
Outlier:
- Scattershot deals massive Slash damage, effective vs unarmored and light armor.
One question, why shield defense values are so small (50-60-75) ?
Now its harder to block with shield that with sword, so its rather counter intuitive.
- There seems to be very little information on whether a shield replaces or adds to defense rating. I've only found user assertions but nothing definitive.
- Higher defense rating extends the window for Perfect Block and Master Strike, so parrying and riposte. I don't think shields should factor into to these two combat aspects.
- Defense rating has no effect on Normal Block.
If I'm shown definitive proof that shields replace a weapon's defense, then I might buff shield defense a bit, but not much, since again, defense is NOT for Normal Block.
So, for example, if a weapon like the Raven’s Beak has been given multiple damage types to compensate weaken in Blunt damage, the added types might not actually do anything in practice—effectively just nerfing the weapon.
Take the Billhook as an example: if it has 97 Slash, 0 Stab, and 49 Blunt, it seems to deal either 97 Slash or 49 Blunt, depending on which part of the weapon hits the enemy. It doesn’t do something like (97 Slash – Slash armor) + (49 Blunt – Blunt armor), and it never deals Stab damage at all—presumably because it lacks a collision box for it.
Does that sound accurate to you? And did you take this behavior into account when designing the mod?
- Whether or not a weapon is capable of dealing damage not assigned to it by default... well, it's easy to confirm or disprove. Most, if not all, maces have not been assigned Slash damage. Make a mod giving them only slash damage and hit an enemy.
- Do weapons deal both Slash and Smash at the same time? Yes. On the cut attack. Can they deal Smash or Slash on the thrust? No, but one exception are a subclass of maces (subclass 1) that deal Smash on thrust. There's already another thread about this.
- In this Posts tab, there's already a massive thread of comments discussing split damage, I ain't going to respond and start another.
The fights are so much more interesting now. I still have some issues regarding some rules about combat (vanilla behaviour I suspect), like I had a few occurences of the enemy doing an insane amount of damage with just one masterstrike with a duelling longsword while I was wearing some of the best armour and with almost half my stamina. But anyway, strange quirks aside it's a really great experience.
I could have one complaint though, even if I rarely use ranged weapons for actual combat, I feel like not being able to at least incapacitate people not wearing quality armor with the rampart crossbow is a bit much. Because even if I know that I won't kill my target, I hate seeing it immediately run towards me and start bashing me while I'm still switching weapons. But oh well, can't have it all.
Get the perks "Crippling Shot" 1 & 2 and use Realish Wounds. KCD2 locked realistic bolt/arrow reactions behind perks and injuries.
As far as Crossbow damage, the Reinforced Windlass Crossbow does 450+ damage on a high level Henry with the best Bolts, whereas the best Longsword, Radzig's, does around 110+ damage. That's not including all the Perk bonuses that go into ranged weapons. I'm not sure exactly how much more powerful you'd like me to make Crossbows, but realistically, 4x the power of a two-handed Longsword thrust seems enough.
Improved piercing arrows do 50/50 mixed damage, whereas improved long range arrows do 100 piercing damage. I noticed that plate armour tend to have somewhat around a third more armour against piercing than blunt, does it means than the piercing arrow type do in fine have a lower efficiency against heavily armoured enemies ? Or is there some hidden effect to arrows, like bypassing some armour value ?
I choose arrows but I have the same interrogation about axes and other mixed damage weapons. Dividing weapon damage against two armor values, as long as none of them is zero, should be less efficient, no ? Which is fair for axes, but the "piercing" arrow thing I don't get.
Thank you and sorry for taking your time like that.
Slash damage - least effective against armor, as most armors have, on average, generally higher Slash defense.
Stab damage- moderately effective against armor, as most armors have, on average, moderate Stab defense.
Smash damage - most effective against armor, as most armors have, on average, lower Stab defense.
There may be ways to add effects to damage types, like Slash increases chance for bleed, or Smash increases chance for injury, etc, but I'm not there yet.
In really crude theory, my understanding is that 100 piercing damage against a 20 piercing and 10 blunt armour means 80 damage bypassing the armour and 50 piercing damage and 50 blunt damage against a 20 piercing and 10 blunt armour means 70 damage bypassing the armour.
I may be completely off, and as english is not my native language I may have just missed your point.
Thank you for your patience I just needed to satisfy my curiosity.
All damage types reduce Stamina and Health equally, unless stopped by corresponding defense type to match damage type.
But if not, here is my previous example :
Let's say a bow that does 100 damage is used against an armour part that has 20 piercing and 10 blunt armor.
Long range arrow typePiercing arrow type
Piercing damage | Blunt damagePiercing damage | Blunt damage
100 | 050 | 50
Piercing armour | Blunt armourPiercing armour | Blunt armour
20 | 1020 | 10
Total damage that goes through armorTotal damage that goes through armor
80 | 030 | 40 (=70)
- one of the armour type is 0, in that case the two arrows perform the same.
- the armour completely negates the two types of damage. (armour of 100+|50+), in that case the two arrows also perform the same.
- the piercing damage of the long range arrow type is negated but the blunt damage of the piercing type is not. Which in this example would mean an armour value of 100 piercing and <50 blunt. But in game the blunt defense is almost always around 50-70% of the piercing defense so it shouldn't happen often.
Say the arrow is 50 Stab with 50 Smash, and say the bow power is 1.5 multiplier.
75 Stab
75 Smash
Milanese Cuirass (default T4):
DefenseStab=156
75 Stab= 0
DefenseSmash=39
75 Smash = 36
Let's say it's 100 Stab arrow.
150 Stab.
Milanese Cuirass (default T4):
DefenseStab=156
150 Stab= 0
DefenseSmash=39
0 Smash = 0
Point is moot, I changed how they work. Lite version will stay the same.
Essentially, split damage weapon types (say, 'Normal' + 'Lightning') were always considered inferior in the community because damage is blocked twice, once for each damage type.
There are 2 solutions; either 1) you carefully balance each scenario so that they do not become underpowered - i.e. split damage weapons will always have more total damage, or 2) you stick with 1 damage type.
As not every enemy is individually carefully balanced in KCD2, 2) is the better option. You could just buff the piercing damage of piercing arrows further, but this would make it better than anything else against unarmored opponents as well, which is not true to real life.
And on the other hand, for hunting, you are dealing with 0 armor enemies with a lot of health that you want to take down in 1 shot, but you don't want hunting arrows to become armored knight slayers either.
So I agree with Actalo's reasoning in the Articles section:
- pure blunt damage for armor piercing weapons, as armor is weakest vs. blunt in gameplay terms. Relatively low total damage so that unarmored opponents can survive piercing arrows (arrows fly through with only a small puncture).
- Big total damage for hunting arrows, but split across the 3 damage types, which fares poorly vs. armor.
- Pierce (and slash) for the regular arrows, which is a middle ground between lethal vs. unarmored humans, non-lethal vs. armored humans and vs. animals with a big health pool.
EDIT: only now did I read the description on the Test branch >.<
So, does 2.44 include the reworked projectile values listed above?
What's the difference with the 3.1 test branch, the particular damage scaling? (-10 blunt, 0 stab, +10 slash)?
How does the damage scaling work, is it a separate scaling from the reworked projectile values? Or is it just an explanation for how the values were chosen?
Does the scaling work only for projectiles or for all weapons in the test branch?
- Damage scaling for Smash/Stab/Slash: -10/0/+10
AttackStab="0" AttackSlash="0" AttackSmash="80" Id="c82f1a8d-3617-42b7-98a9-36e96ff71294" Name="bolt_enh_piercing" />
AttackStab="90" AttackSlash="0" AttackSmash="0" Id="081fc4a1-25e9-4492-8dc8-2d9d6668c07a" Name="bolt_enh_precise" />
AttackStab="0" AttackSlash="100" AttackSmash="0" Id="e6652736-4cb4-42e9-b012-050064405f37" Name="bolt_enh_cutting" />
There's 10 damage difference between each. I'm hoping there's a big enough difference in overall damage (scaled up from weapon power and stats), that it makes sense to use Enhanced Wounding Bolts (Slash) on face-shots or unarmored opponents, Sharpshooter Bolts (Stab) on light or medium armor, and Enhanced Piercing Bolts (Smash) on Plate or heavy armor.
Edit:
The only combined-damage or hybrids left are Lead Ball and Hunting:
- Lead Ball will deliver massive combined damage to unarmored or light armored, but some Stab damage mitigated by medium armored, and most Stab damage mitigated by heavily armored. The result being insta-kill for all unarmored or light armored, most medium armored, and some heavily armored.
- Hunting, as you said, should have combined high damage to kill game but otherwise ineffective against armor, due to its low individual damage in type.
Keep in mind, too, that I scale damage designed to accompany injuries and bleeding mods (specifically mine or one other). Granted, most people who use this mod, don't wanna use injury or bleed mods, but I can't help that.
From above mod: "Realistic armor changes all armors and clothes in game so it should not be compatible with anything that changes specific armor values like prices and defense stats."
Shoudn't isn't same as "isn't" so there is slight hope. xD
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