There is none needed. Because the light version has only one file and this file wasnt updated. I changed the version number there now as well - for better understanding.
Still unclear haha. Can I have an example on a non attributed crime? Currently that reads like 'if no one SEES you commit the crime you won't get blamed for it.'
Currently you get blamed (rightly so) for being in the area of a crime or if people notice their items missing but didn't see you take them.
PS: Thank you in advance for your work, I don't think I've played an unmodded game in 15 years and it's all thanks to folk like yourself.
Yeah, the system is kind of weird, you notice this while playing. I yet have to understand it better. Like people said in the other mod thread, its weird why you should get blamed for something when you are across town or out of area. This "auto" blaming is hard getting used to, i dunno. Thats why the 50% reduction. All these strings start with auto_ its an automated system, even if you did stealing, etc. properly. Non attributed crimes shouldnt effect the example you mentioned. Its more like how long or well guards or people persue these things or until their "meter" is reached up to a point where the trigger happens. Kind of hard to explain.
I may have to think about a better explanation later. :D
But for now: Importance - how "fast" npcs react and persue the/ir goal. Expiration - how long they gonna remember and look after you Jail - how likely you gonna end there (perk/buff/ checks afterwards)
angriness level raises for each npc individually, certain value reached, action happens. This is an automated system, even if you succeed, hence the 50% less. But if you disable it enterily, then there is nothing...left....right? :/
1) if I get caught trespassing, leave, then sneak back in, steal something, and leave without getting caught - will I still get blamed for that crime later?
and 2) If I get caught trespassing in someone's house, leave, and go to a DIFFERENT house, steal something without getting caught, and leave, would I then still potentially get caught later?
Well that was unnecessarily rude, lol. I understand everything fine EXCEPT the attribution system, which is explicitly what I'm asking about.
People notice Henry, especially if he's acting suspicious, or loitering where he doesn't belong. If things go missing, they'll assume he did it. From the explanation, it seems like the attribution system is separate from this? In that you can be blamed for crimes that no one has any way of knowing you committed, and I'm trying to understand how THAT works.
Is it based on crimes previously committed in that area? Is it entirely random? Is it based on a series of equations derived from values based on NPC's having seen you, been suspicious of you, or previously caught you? I have no idea.
Either that, or I'm misunderstanding the explanation and the attribution system IS the same system I described wherein people connect Henry to crimes based on his suspicious behavior preceding or following the crime.
I can see it is a bit confusing for everyone. May I suggest ChatGDP with "Reasoning" enabled and put what you have in your mind and let it rephrase and explain it then take the parts you think are related and clear to understand and then make your own explanation.
Ok, so the mod has two files. angriness_enum.xml - this file determines the initial mood of each npc about you. crime.xml - this file determines whether things are seen as a crime, are persued, etc.
In crime.xml non Attributed Crimes are disabled. They are not persued. angriness_enum.xml disbales "the brain" for npcs to think about it could be you. But the more i think about it, again, after all this discussion (and also my initial first thought!! :D) that this shouldnt be entirely disabled...and should be left where it was at the first version of the mod.
So, im gonna revert to this, and then it will be again,....they "can" think it was you, but they dont know, and if you've done it often enough there is a threshold, then they know it was you, cos thats how the system works, AND THEN, its not unattributed anymore. But im gonna reduce it more now, so they have this thought, but yeah....no evidence. :P
I think this is for the best and i hope this brings a little light into the darkness. ;)
And plesea, everyone behave. Thanks.
Edit: Ive also found the reputation file and how it works and maybe im gonna do something with this, too. There you can also set who is effected by reputation loss, and how the game system works, what the game advertises, "they talk with each other so rumors spread" is mainly set there, with a basic value where "all" people are effected by it, there are other values you could use like npcs or faction based, etc.
And 95% of those entries in reputation (change) are reputation_change_target_id="15" and id 15 is all, so everyone.
The "illusion" here is, that when you travel to a new or village you visited already, there has to be some time gone by and thats how "the rumors spread over time" about your actions. Thats the illusion. And of course in reality it doesnt matter if you didnt see that person one day or a week - they know already. :)
But yeah, thats how you design games, so in the end, im ok with it.
this is one of those AWESOME mods with awesome ideas to work with, im glad there is a very smart person working on it as well. GJ op.
in the first game i used to sneak up on people and grab them from behind and choke them unconscious and then steal stuff xD but they somehow still got angry with me... idk how they saw me ... (maybe i smelled? .. but i bathed often...)
"Jail" does nothing, that is a KCD1 relic. We no longer use jail as a punishment.
"Importance" controls the weight of each crime for when you enter arrest dialogue only. It determines what crime will the guard talk about as the most serious. And you are probably breaking it and making the dialogue sound wierd.
Fines and expirations are probablyok to change like this.
Confiscation is if the guard will search your inventory for stolen items after resolving the crime with you. So you are now adding this check to situations when you have hit the guard during arrest. Which might not be what you were trying to do?
I feel deeply uncomfortable, even disgusted, by the crime system in this game. First of all, I want to roleplay as a chivalrous knight—no stealing, no senseless killing. However, the game's Schrödinger’s "crime" system constantly breaks this immersion.
Looting corpses is considered a crime (In reality, looting the dead for spoils was completely normal in the Middle Ages. From the Crusaders to famous mercenary groups, a significant portion of their wages and rewards came from the tacit approval—if not outright encouragement—of taking enemy loot. This had nothing to do with religious beliefs.)
Absurd theft mechanics
(a) Using a lockpick to open a chest in a bandit camp is a crime, but using a key looted from a bandit to open the same chest is not. So, according to Warhorse's logic, lockpicking = crime? Then merchants selling lockpicks are openly selling criminal tools?
(b) In the starting area, after being attacked, you can knock out the bandits without engaging in combat. However, looting them is considered theft? WTF?
(c) A bandit murders a civilian. I kill the bandit, but looting him—acquiring my rightful spoils—still counts as theft? (Let’s not even get into whether items looted by the bandit from the victim should be considered stolen goods. Even if I deliberately avoid holding "E" to loot everything at once and manually check each item to ensure there are no stolen goods, the game still labels my loot as stolen. This is absolutely disgusting.)
(d) The civilian designation is absurd. Why are enemies who actively ambush and attack me on the battlefield—clearly displaying hostile intent—classified as civilians?
Does this mod address these issues by making the definition of crime truly reasonable and logical? Or does it simply make the handling of crimes more reasonable without fixing the flawed logic behind them?
I was once looting a poachers camp in the Trosky region that the huntsman told me to get rid of, and looting their stash was considered as a crime to the game. I hope Warhorse focuses on this system on later patches, because as it is, we need mods like this to severely nerf it, unfortunately.
As far as I know, the game currently mistakenly adds the amount stolen by bandits to the player's crime stats just for me passing by a robbery scene. Do you plan to fix this?
Bro, sorry if this has already been mentioned, but is this mod going to try tackling the asinine "civilian" tags many enemies have and the associated murders/crimes? What I mean is: Sigismund soldiers from the Godwyn prologue, random bandits such as the horse thieves you track down for the hunter, and many other enemies/events will give you civilian murders even if they are clearly enemies fighting you. There's also the shitty events where if the bandits kill/loot their intended target and you were around the area (or just saw the event and failed to stop it) you'll get a stolen item tally or worse a murder. I understand that there's the whole "some villager saw a new guy and so now he gets blamed for every crime" system and as annoying as it is it even makes sense, but this is worse. You literally cannot in the current build of the game be an honorable henry, cause even if you don't steal jack or murder anyone who isn't directly trying to murder you, the game and its stupid ass stats screen will still blame you for it.
No, i guess this is going deeper and you would have to mod the code directly (lua). There does not seem to be "self-defence" when you get attacked and its considered a "crime".
Lol, yup. Goddamnit, I was afraid you were gonna say that :( This looks like something that we'll never get an official fix for and only maybe MAYBE be able to fix ourselves when the official modding tools come out. Honestly, kinda mad that more people aren't raising a fuss about it, it's straight up broken. Ah, well, thanks anyway :)
I think this is very important. Hopefully somebody makes a mod for this. I noticed it immediately at the prologue, when two thugs show up at the old lady's house, and they were being very aggressive and obiously bandits. So I knocked one out with stealth (non-lethal) and immediately got a reputation tutorial show up, like I had committed a crime unprovoked, while the other thug ran away like a civilian would. Extreme flaws like this are what makes the entire save system in the game untrustworthy. Thankfully it had auto-saved just before that event, but that is not always the case and then you have to repeat half an hour of progress because of a game design oversight.
I like sneaking around on KCD and stealing stuff, and I think KCD 2 made it much more difficult to do that but in a kind of unreasonable way. Thanks for the mod.
So with this mod active, i am able to just walk around at night, breaking in everywhere, and the trespassing symbol does not pop up when i am in someone's house/shop at night, i clearly broke in but people walking around dont care unless they see me lockpicking a chest or door, this is making robbing super easy at night, no one wakes up, no one does anything even if they see me in their house at night? the detected rabbit and trespassing icon does not pop up either. is robbing with this mod active suppose to be this easy? or am i experiencing a bug?
EDIT: i just got a crime marker on that village in the morning lol, so it does matter if they see you but the rabbit thing does not alert you that you been spotted?
I'm curious about how the "No trespass" version of the mod works. Is it supposed to make it so that people won't say you're trespassing anymore? Because in my testing, the trespass symbol still shows up, and if people see me, they'd still try to chase me away.
Yes, the ui symbol still shows the icon and they still "chase" you, but like you can see the changes at the bottom, its not a crime anymore and nothing should happen. There is still a very, very small amout of "angriness" towards you from that NPC if you doing so.
Hey there. After extensive testing, it seems as if simply changing the tag to "not a crime" doesn't stop them from reporting my ass for trespassing. I tested it at my local trade shop, and the guy called the guard and had me arrested
idk what i did i wasn't seen at all and i robbed the weaponsmith and when i went back to my inn and slept i was stopped outside in the morning for robbing the store
121 comments
I changed the version number there now as well - for better understanding.
Currently you get blamed (rightly so) for being in the area of a crime or if people notice their items missing but didn't see you take them.
PS: Thank you in advance for your work, I don't think I've played an unmodded game in 15 years and it's all thanks to folk like yourself.
Like people said in the other mod thread, its weird why you should get blamed for something when you are across town or out of area.
This "auto" blaming is hard getting used to, i dunno. Thats why the 50% reduction. All these strings start with auto_ its an automated system, even if you did stealing, etc. properly.
Non attributed crimes shouldnt effect the example you mentioned. Its more like how long or well guards or people persue these things or until their "meter" is reached up to a point where the trigger happens. Kind of hard to explain.
But for now:
Importance - how "fast" npcs react and persue the/ir goal.
Expiration - how long they gonna remember and look after you
Jail - how likely you gonna end there
(perk/buff/ checks afterwards)
angriness level raises for each npc individually, certain value reached, action happens. This is an automated system, even if you succeed, hence the 50% less. But if you disable it enterily, then there is nothing...left....right? :/
1) if I get caught trespassing, leave, then sneak back in, steal something, and leave without getting caught - will I still get blamed for that crime later?
and 2) If I get caught trespassing in someone's house, leave, and go to a DIFFERENT house, steal something without getting caught, and leave, would I then still potentially get caught later?
People notice Henry, especially if he's acting suspicious, or loitering where he doesn't belong. If things go missing, they'll assume he did it. From the explanation, it seems like the attribution system is separate from this? In that you can be blamed for crimes that no one has any way of knowing you committed, and I'm trying to understand how THAT works.
Is it based on crimes previously committed in that area? Is it entirely random? Is it based on a series of equations derived from values based on NPC's having seen you, been suspicious of you, or previously caught you? I have no idea.
Either that, or I'm misunderstanding the explanation and the attribution system IS the same system I described wherein people connect Henry to crimes based on his suspicious behavior preceding or following the crime.
angriness_enum.xml - this file determines the initial mood of each npc about you.
crime.xml - this file determines whether things are seen as a crime, are persued, etc.
In crime.xml non Attributed Crimes are disabled. They are not persued.
angriness_enum.xml disbales "the brain" for npcs to think about it could be you. But the more i think about it, again, after all this discussion (and also my initial first thought!! :D) that this shouldnt be entirely disabled...and should be left where it was at the first version of the mod.
So, im gonna revert to this, and then it will be again,....they "can" think it was you, but they dont know, and if you've done it often enough there is a threshold, then they know it was you, cos thats how the system works, AND THEN, its not unattributed anymore. But im gonna reduce it more now, so they have this thought, but yeah....no evidence. :P
I think this is for the best and i hope this brings a little light into the darkness. ;)
And plesea, everyone behave. Thanks.
Edit: Ive also found the reputation file and how it works and maybe im gonna do something with this, too. There you can also set who is effected by reputation loss, and how the game system works, what the game advertises, "they talk with each other so rumors spread" is mainly set there, with a basic value where "all" people are effected by it, there are other values you could use like npcs or faction based, etc.
And 95% of those entries in reputation (change) are reputation_change_target_id="15" and id 15 is all, so everyone.
The "illusion" here is, that when you travel to a new or village you visited already, there has to be some time gone by and thats how "the rumors spread over time" about your actions. Thats the illusion. And of course in reality it doesnt matter if you didnt see that person one day or a week - they know already. :)
But yeah, thats how you design games, so in the end, im ok with it.
in the first game i used to sneak up on people and grab them from behind and choke them unconscious and then steal stuff xD
but they somehow still got angry with me... idk how they saw me ... (maybe i smelled? .. but i bathed often...)
"Importance" controls the weight of each crime for when you enter arrest dialogue only. It determines what crime will the guard talk about as the most serious. And you are probably breaking it and making the dialogue sound wierd.
Fines and expirations are probablyok to change like this.
Confiscation is if the guard will search your inventory for stolen items after resolving the crime with you. So you are now adding this check to situations when you have hit the guard during arrest. Which might not be what you were trying to do?
Source: I am the designer :]]
- Looting corpses is considered a crime (In reality, looting the dead for spoils was completely normal in the Middle Ages. From the Crusaders to famous mercenary groups, a significant portion of their wages and rewards came from the tacit approval—if not outright encouragement—of taking enemy loot. This had nothing to do with religious beliefs.)
- Absurd theft mechanics
- (a) Using a lockpick to open a chest in a bandit camp is a crime, but using a key looted from a bandit to open the same chest is not. So, according to Warhorse's logic, lockpicking = crime? Then merchants selling lockpicks are openly selling criminal tools?
- (b) In the starting area, after being attacked, you can knock out the bandits without engaging in combat. However, looting them is considered theft? WTF?
- (c) A bandit murders a civilian. I kill the bandit, but looting him—acquiring my rightful spoils—still counts as theft? (Let’s not even get into whether items looted by the bandit from the victim should be considered stolen goods. Even if I deliberately avoid holding "E" to loot everything at once and manually check each item to ensure there are no stolen goods, the game still labels my loot as stolen. This is absolutely disgusting.)
- (d) The civilian designation is absurd. Why are enemies who actively ambush and attack me on the battlefield—clearly displaying hostile intent—classified as civilians?
Does this mod address these issues by making the definition of crime truly reasonable and logical? Or does it simply make the handling of crimes more reasonable without fixing the flawed logic behind them?EDIT: i just got a crime marker on that village in the morning lol, so it does matter if they see you but the rabbit thing does not alert you that you been spotted?
Because in my testing, the trespass symbol still shows up, and if people see me, they'd still try to chase me away.
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