To DarknessSquall and anyone else who's knowledgeable about modding: could you tell me, please, how to make this mod compatible with the latest version of K1 Community Patch? The mod works only in a vanilla game, but if I try to use it with Community Patch, all I can see during the modded cutscene (after Carth runs away) is a black screen with dialogue options at the bottom:
I don't use the K1 Community Patch so I couldn't tell you how it does what it does. What I can tell you is that my mod only edits a single file: unk41_mission.dlg. One thing you can try (disclaimer: this might not work) would be to install the K1 Community Patch first, and then manually install my mod afterwards, overwriting the file when prompted.
If that still results in the black screen issue or other bugs, then I would've guessed it means the K1 Community patch relies on its own edited version of unk41_mission.dlg to function. (In that case, the only way to make my mod compatible with it would would be to open up the modded version of unk41_mission.dlg used by the K1 Community Patch, then manually splice my mod into it by duplicating my work.)
But, oddly, I just took a look at K1 Community Patch's .zip and it didn't seem like it changes that file...so I've got no clue what the problem is. Maybe the K1 Community Patch uses some other way to enable mods that's in conflict with the vanilla modding method...?
This was the first and only mod I made for KOTOR so unfortunately, compatibility with the vanilla game is the extent of what I can offer. You could try reaching out to the crews on DeadlyStream or the developers of the K1 Community Patch and see if they could help. Or, you could try installing just the K1 Community Patch, and then send me a copy of unk41_mission.dlg from your modded installation (if the file even exists). Then I could take a look at it and see if I can figure anything out, but I can't guarantee that I'd be successful.
Good luck and may the (dark side of the) force be with you.
Unfortunately, Community Patch 10.0 doesn't put any unk41_mission.dlg into Override. Installing this mod after Community Patch doesn't help either, there's still a black screen during the conversation with Mission. The patch may also be editing the "unk_m41" module (DarthParametric does many edits to game cutscenes, so something must be interfering with this mod).
*** Update *** I fixed it! The issue was caused by unk_m41aa.mod (from "modules" folder) that had been added by Community Patch. After I deleted it, the cutscene played normally without a black screen, with correct animations.
Nice job fixing it, Arbeiter2009! You know, now that you mention it, I have a feeling that unk41_mission.dlg is actually part of, or packed into, unk_m41aa.mod...I'll go dig up my old files and see if it jogs my memory...
Yup, unk_m41aa.mod is a "module" file, which is how the developers packed and organized many of the game files together. I used a utility called "kotor tool" to crack it open; I originally extracted the unk41_mission.dlg from inside unk_m41aa.mod.
The modders at DeadlyStream tried to warn me that using my manual override method instead of the TSLPatcher automatic installer was likely to cause incompatibilities with other mods. I tried, but I couldn't get TSLPatcher's built in compatibility features to work with my mod...it kept throwing errors at me or breaking my mod.
So I shrugged and rationalized to myself that any other mods which edited that one .dlg (dialogue) file should be incompatible with my mod by design. I thought it wouldn't make sense for two mods editing the same thing to coexist. I realize now that the real incompatibility they were warning me about comes from large scale mods, like the K1 Community Patch, that override the entire unk_m41aa module.
Thanks for your comment and your work troubleshooting...I'll update the incompatibility warnings in mod description in the next few days and credit you for the discovery.
Thanks for the mod. Killing the treacherous Jedi is understandable, but having to kill the kid and not keeping and then corrupting it never got my mind.
But about Zaalbar: you wrote he is turning on you when realizing you want to kill Mission, but I definitely remember ordering him to kill Mission and he just did in cold blood and stayed in my group.
[SPOILERS] . . . It's true that you can get Zaalbar to kill Mission, and at first he seems to stay in your party ... but at some point, he realizes what's happened, and will turn against you, forcing you to kill him.
very nice. do you plan on adding similar options for jolee and juhani? kinda sucks to see them go it's probably what keeps the dark side as a bad choice. the dark side ending is in my eyes more recognizing the republic as run by imbeciles and destroying the star forge as an idiot's choice since it isn't a dark side generator itself, rather it's a force multiplier(pun intended) that gives power to the force user to use how he sees fit, for good or evil. they saw revan as evil but realistically he was trying to restructure the republic so that it could face the sith army that was coming, the one that almost destroyed the galaxy in k2 firstly and the one that revan eventually left to face on his own, the true sith.
the way I see it there was a grey jedi choice that was missed out on of neither be consumed by the dark side nor stay a republic and council lapdog, keep the star forge intact, use it respectfully and to protect man rather than rule him, and be beholden to neither the republic nor the council. the jedi council was a generator for the dark side, that's why so many of their best jedi become sith across thousands of years from exar kun to revan to anakin. blind faith doesn't sustain them, and that's a good thing. that's why someone like qui gon jinn was what you could call a true jedi, a grey jedi, because he strove to understand both sides of the force and to seek a true balance with them. balance in the force is something the jedi talk about and yet they represent an extreme of the force, so the sith is their natural counterpart that must exist as long as the jedi order exists in their dogma. kreia had the same idea and why she hated both the force and the jedi as well as the sith, she saw the pattern and wanted to destroy it but the only way was to create an order of grey jedi, which is why she wanted to teach the exile in a way where he made his own decisions and was able to overcome her and everything she threw at you including her old apprentices as a representation, manifestation, of an extreme of the force, with the council being the other extreme and overcoming both as well as being able to not just be a blind servant of the force.
even if you light side ending you can see shortly after in k2 the rot that's taking over the republic. even after the end of the game there's nothing that the republic can do to stay afloat, that is until the empire and their sith come in and give them the struggle that forces them to do so. that's always the lesson at the end of the day is the sith will always come to both the jedi and the empire will always come to the republic looking for a fight, because both the jedi and the republic simply can't stand on its own legs, entropy always sets in, the jedi always become corrupted whether they go dark side or stay with light side dogma like that vrook or whatever his name was, who may as well be a sith himself given his attitude alone. the republic always has things like nar shadaa and the exchange and czerka corruption from within with no one willing to do anything about it. it's born to die and the grey jedi fueling the star forge very well may have been the solution of solutions.
So I felt like sparing Mission and Zaalbar was believable from a narrative perspective, based on the existing dialogue. A kid smuggler that you saved and a Wookie that owes you a life debt.
But I don't have any plans to spare the Jedi Jolee or Juhani, or the Republic loyalist Carth - losing them is one of the harsh consequences of falling to the dark side. Vader doesn't get to keep Obi-Wan or Padme in his party. The best I can suggest is for the player to imagine that they're just knocked unconscious when you beat them, and not actually dead.
For them to stay alive or be retained as a party member - well, for Jolee, I don't see that as fitting his character. I looked into possibilities for Juhani, since I figured she fell to the Dark Side once, maybe she could again. Problem with that is, her entire character arc is one of redemption. It would be out of character for her to switch sides suddenly. It would have to be a slow-burn, "sway Juhani to the dark side" arc that takes place throughout the game. Someone else has been working on that mod for many years - maybe it will be released one day. I lack the time and experience to build such a mod myself.
Darkness Squall -> Actually, if you think of it(DS) like an innate part of herself that she's resisted through her jedi training, and consider her being in an enviourment that prized the jedi code above all else for most of her adult life, then you can suddenly see why after journey away from the conclave, that she'd suddenly find herself being in the first true situation, where she was in a place to truly question and decide on whether she belives in the jedi code or not. Traveling with a Jedi from the same conclave, along with seeing Bastilla (who's the poster girl of the conclave jedi's), both turn to the dark side, must have also impacted her a lot. The PC, is her life long adored hero, who already directly influenced a core part of her character in the game when she was a child. Bastilla, is the poster girl of the jedi conclave, and the supposed near epitome of the jedi code. A person that's both never had to fight the same level of DS characteristics as Juhani has had to deal with, but who was also venerated near above all else as being the exemplification of the jedi code. When you then also account for how being in a relatively closed enviourment prizing the jedi code above all else, and how Juhani's innate character has always had to fight herself to adhere to the jedi core, and all the things that she sees in her journey in the context of the two people I mentioned of impact above, then the story suddenly changes to one of self discovery in my eyes, rather than one of redemption.
To comment on the redemption arc argument, I view that as her struggle to overcome her true nature. She's been "forced" to let go of her true nature, because of all of the above, and the situation that she's been in during it. However when traveling with a DS Revan, her childhood hero, and being away from the streamlined focus on the jedi code being above all, as she was in the conclave, I think she gets a chance to question her own beliefs yet again, and then truly decide who she actually is, in the abscence of all the restrictions imposed upon her, and in the presence of the people she adores the most. This of course also includes poster girl of the conclave Bastilla, who's also turned to DS.
Instead of viewing Juhani's arc as a redemption arc, it feels a lot more to me like an arc of introspection.
Who is Juhani genuinly at her core? Why did she follow the Jedi code, despite it clearly conflicting with her true nature? Does she genuinly believe in the jedi code, despite her innate nature being in direct perpetual conflict with it? Does travling with, and seeing the most idolized people of her life let go of the jedi code chains, and become DS, truly not affect her in the context of everything written, to the point where it would make complete sense for her to join her companions in DS, and finally be true to herself?
I'd argue that because of all of the above, it's not a sudden change if she switches to the dark side, but instead the culmination of her journey to discover who she truly is.
Interesting mod. I've never really liked the Dark Side path in this game because most of the stuff you do is rather juvenile, but killing party members is probably the worst aspect. I guess it's selfish to want your cake and eat it too, but this is really nice. Great job.
Thanks. Yeah, for a full dark side playthrough, we see [SPOILER ALERT] . . . Bastila fall to the Dark Side, and we lose Carth, Jolee, and Juhani as party members, being forced to kill the latter two. That makes sense, considering their moral compass. But Zaalbar has sworn a life debt to you, and Mission is just a kid. I felt that being forced to kill them off turns an already dark ending into a juvenile massacre, pun intended...
True it is very memorable. This mod doesn't remove the ability to kill her, it just adds additional options in case the player wants to be dark but doesn't want to kill her.
To install the mod, place these files: unk41_mission.dlg, nm10ackand01052_.lip, nm20aagrif05041_.lip, and nm40aamiss08014_.lip, in your Override folder. The Override folder is located in your Knights of the Old Republic installation directory.
Steam users can access their installation directory by following these steps: 1 - right click the game in their Steam library 2 - hover over "Manage" 3 - click "Browse Local files".
I know that another mod exists called "Save Mission" by Churk aka jc2, which ultimately has all the same functions as my mod. I created this mod from scratch, using "Save Mission" as inspiration, so it has all different dialogue for the player and NPCs. The outcome is the same, but the events unfold differently. I feel that these differences, as well as the absence of a few bugs that are present in Save Mission v1.5a, mean that these mods both have merit. You may enjoy Churk's "Save Mission" much more than this mod, so I'd suggest trying both out and keeping the one you like better (you can't install them both at the same time).
17 comments
https://www.imagebam.com/view/MERQ6E4
If that still results in the black screen issue or other bugs, then I would've guessed it means the K1 Community patch relies on its own edited version of unk41_mission.dlg to function. (In that case, the only way to make my mod compatible with it would would be to open up the modded version of unk41_mission.dlg used by the K1 Community Patch, then manually splice my mod into it by duplicating my work.)
But, oddly, I just took a look at K1 Community Patch's .zip and it didn't seem like it changes that file...so I've got no clue what the problem is. Maybe the K1 Community Patch uses some other way to enable mods that's in conflict with the vanilla modding method...?
This was the first and only mod I made for KOTOR so unfortunately, compatibility with the vanilla game is the extent of what I can offer. You could try reaching out to the crews on DeadlyStream or the developers of the K1 Community Patch and see if they could help. Or, you could try installing just the K1 Community Patch, and then send me a copy of unk41_mission.dlg from your modded installation (if the file even exists). Then I could take a look at it and see if I can figure anything out, but I can't guarantee that I'd be successful.
Good luck and may the (dark side of the) force be with you.
*** Update *** I fixed it! The issue was caused by unk_m41aa.mod (from "modules" folder) that had been added by Community Patch. After I deleted it, the cutscene played normally without a black screen, with correct animations.
Yup, unk_m41aa.mod is a "module" file, which is how the developers packed and organized many of the game files together. I used a utility called "kotor tool" to crack it open; I originally extracted the unk41_mission.dlg from inside unk_m41aa.mod.
The modders at DeadlyStream tried to warn me that using my manual override method instead of the TSLPatcher automatic installer was likely to cause incompatibilities with other mods. I tried, but I couldn't get TSLPatcher's built in compatibility features to work with my mod...it kept throwing errors at me or breaking my mod.
So I shrugged and rationalized to myself that any other mods which edited that one .dlg (dialogue) file should be incompatible with my mod by design. I thought it wouldn't make sense for two mods editing the same thing to coexist. I realize now that the real incompatibility they were warning me about comes from large scale mods, like the K1 Community Patch, that override the entire unk_m41aa module.
Thanks for your comment and your work troubleshooting...I'll update the incompatibility warnings in mod description in the next few days and credit you for the discovery.
Killing the treacherous Jedi is understandable, but having to kill the kid and not keeping and then corrupting it never got my mind.
But about Zaalbar: you wrote he is turning on you when realizing you want to kill Mission, but I definitely remember ordering him to kill Mission and he just did in cold blood and stayed in my group.
.
.
.
It's true that you can get Zaalbar to kill Mission, and at first he seems to stay in your party ... but at some point, he realizes what's happened, and will turn against you, forcing you to kill him.
the way I see it there was a grey jedi choice that was missed out on of neither be consumed by the dark side nor stay a republic and council lapdog, keep the star forge intact, use it respectfully and to protect man rather than rule him, and be beholden to neither the republic nor the council. the jedi council was a generator for the dark side, that's why so many of their best jedi become sith across thousands of years from exar kun to revan to anakin. blind faith doesn't sustain them, and that's a good thing. that's why someone like qui gon jinn was what you could call a true jedi, a grey jedi, because he strove to understand both sides of the force and to seek a true balance with them. balance in the force is something the jedi talk about and yet they represent an extreme of the force, so the sith is their natural counterpart that must exist as long as the jedi order exists in their dogma. kreia had the same idea and why she hated both the force and the jedi as well as the sith, she saw the pattern and wanted to destroy it but the only way was to create an order of grey jedi, which is why she wanted to teach the exile in a way where he made his own decisions and was able to overcome her and everything she threw at you including her old apprentices as a representation, manifestation, of an extreme of the force, with the council being the other extreme and overcoming both as well as being able to not just be a blind servant of the force.
even if you light side ending you can see shortly after in k2 the rot that's taking over the republic. even after the end of the game there's nothing that the republic can do to stay afloat, that is until the empire and their sith come in and give them the struggle that forces them to do so. that's always the lesson at the end of the day is the sith will always come to both the jedi and the empire will always come to the republic looking for a fight, because both the jedi and the republic simply can't stand on its own legs, entropy always sets in, the jedi always become corrupted whether they go dark side or stay with light side dogma like that vrook or whatever his name was, who may as well be a sith himself given his attitude alone. the republic always has things like nar shadaa and the exchange and czerka corruption from within with no one willing to do anything about it. it's born to die and the grey jedi fueling the star forge very well may have been the solution of solutions.
But I don't have any plans to spare the Jedi Jolee or Juhani, or the Republic loyalist Carth - losing them is one of the harsh consequences of falling to the dark side. Vader doesn't get to keep Obi-Wan or Padme in his party. The best I can suggest is for the player to imagine that they're just knocked unconscious when you beat them, and not actually dead.
For them to stay alive or be retained as a party member - well, for Jolee, I don't see that as fitting his character. I looked into possibilities for Juhani, since I figured she fell to the Dark Side once, maybe she could again. Problem with that is, her entire character arc is one of redemption. It would be out of character for her to switch sides suddenly. It would have to be a slow-burn, "sway Juhani to the dark side" arc that takes place throughout the game. Someone else has been working on that mod for many years - maybe it will be released one day. I lack the time and experience to build such a mod myself.
Traveling with a Jedi from the same conclave, along with seeing Bastilla (who's the poster girl of the conclave jedi's), both turn to the dark side, must have also impacted her a lot. The PC, is her life long adored hero, who already directly influenced a core part of her character in the game when she was a child. Bastilla, is the poster girl of the jedi conclave, and the supposed near epitome of the jedi code. A person that's both never had to fight the same level of DS characteristics as Juhani has had to deal with, but who was also venerated near above all else as being the exemplification of the jedi code.
When you then also account for how being in a relatively closed enviourment prizing the jedi code above all else, and how Juhani's innate character has always had to fight herself to adhere to the jedi core, and all the things that she sees in her journey in the context of the two people I mentioned of impact above, then the story suddenly changes to one of self discovery in my eyes, rather than one of redemption.
To comment on the redemption arc argument, I view that as her struggle to overcome her true nature. She's been "forced" to let go of her true nature, because of all of the above, and the situation that she's been in during it. However when traveling with a DS Revan, her childhood hero, and being away from the streamlined focus on the jedi code being above all, as she was in the conclave, I think she gets a chance to question her own beliefs yet again, and then truly decide who she actually is, in the abscence of all the restrictions imposed upon her, and in the presence of the people she adores the most. This of course also includes poster girl of the conclave Bastilla, who's also turned to DS.
Instead of viewing Juhani's arc as a redemption arc, it feels a lot more to me like an arc of introspection.
Who is Juhani genuinly at her core? Why did she follow the Jedi code, despite it clearly conflicting with her true nature? Does she genuinly believe in the jedi code, despite her innate nature being in direct perpetual conflict with it? Does travling with, and seeing the most idolized people of her life let go of the jedi code chains, and become DS, truly not affect her in the context of everything written, to the point where it would make complete sense for her to join her companions in DS, and finally be true to herself?
I'd argue that because of all of the above, it's not a sudden change if she switches to the dark side, but instead the culmination of her journey to discover who she truly is.
Edit: Also thanks a lot for your mod <3
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Bastila fall to the Dark Side, and we lose Carth, Jolee, and Juhani as party members, being forced to kill the latter two. That makes sense, considering their moral compass. But Zaalbar has sworn a life debt to you, and Mission is just a kid. I felt that being forced to kill them off turns an already dark ending into a juvenile massacre, pun intended...
your Knights of the Old Republic installation directory.
Steam users can access their installation directory by following these steps:
1 - right click the game in their Steam library
2 - hover over "Manage"
3 - click "Browse Local files".