I've seen your speedruns and you are an exceptional lance player so I really appreciate a reasonable and fair lance rebalance from someone with your experience and knowledge. Being someone who just plays lance as my like 4th backup weapon, would you be able to explain why this rebalance seems to focus so much on elemental damage specifically? I was always under the impression lance players went for raw damage. Thanks again for the mod!
Sorry for the late reply, haven't been checking this page much recently.
The reason Lance players go for raw damage is because our element modifier was nerfed in Iceborne, from 1.0 in base game to 0.7. Restoring it to 1.0 made Kjarr Lances much better, giving our meta more variety while still keeping raw Lance viable.
This is no longer really the case, since the Fatalis Lance has so much raw that it completely takes over the meta in every matchup. Kjarr Lances might have some fringe use cases with this mod, but the Fatalis Lance will be the go to, modded or not.
Sir, can you make a mod that reduces the distance of being pushed back when you guard an attack? or a mod that blocks an unblockable moves(even with guard up skill)?
Sorry for the late reply, haven't been checking this page much recently. I can make a knockback reducing mod, but I'm not going to. Dealing with knockback appropriately is the main challenge of playing Lance!
This is something you can do yourself easily if you want to try your hand at modding, it is a relatively simple edit.
These values do seem to reflect what was proposed in the description. Very nice to see someone who can actually balance something without making ridiculous changes to the MV. I do have one question: Why was the guard thrust MV nerfed ? Isn't that the one move that makes the lance such a unique weapon ? defense being the best offense ? I do think that keeping it to it's original value would be quite nice since it would encourage the "parry" playstyle instead of the evade lance from older games.
I think you may be mistaking Guard Thrust for the counter. Counter uses MVs from Mid/High Thrust. Guard thrust is the little poke you can do while guarding by pressing triangle/Y on a controller.
I chose to nerf Guard Thrust to disincentivize the "slowly walk towards monster with shield raised" playstyle. Lance has strong, reactive guard options with counter and guard dash, and in my opinion, players should need to use them to use the weapon effectively. Guard Thrust is basically never used by the best Lance players, because there are simply better ways to turn defense into offense with Lance.
Have you tested how the weapon feels if you "bake" the guard block thresholds to the weapon itself so it has more decoration slots ? The stamina consumption isn't an issue nor is the chip damage, just the amount of decoration it takes to actually make the weapon function well, leaving little space to damaging decos.
It's an interesting idea, and definitely something to consider, but the issue is increasing the innate guard knockback thresholds for Lance makes the Guard skill too strong. Say for example, you gave Lance an innate Guard 3, and then a player builds Guard 5 on top. You've effectively given +50 knockback thresholds, which would completely trivialize a huge number of the game's monsters. As far as I know, there's no easy way to make the Guard skill less effective for specific weapons, so forcing players to build the Guard skill remains.
would built in guard up feel better ? only useful for few monsters and free a size 2 deco, seem legit as lance is supposedly the 1st defensive weap' in game (hello 4 shield hbg not taking even half hp when blocking AT namielle's nova)
As of iceborne, lance does technically have guard up by default. If you activate power guard and allow it to be on for 1-2 seconds you will gain guard up for the remainder of the time you spend in that power guard.
cool work man, this is some pretty good balancing...
heres some suggestions, altho i dont know if you can even do that with modding
theres two things that bother me on lance even tho i love the weapon.
- you dont have a big attack to use if a monster is down you sjut poke it like always or if you more advanced you dash attack finisher spam the monster. if the weapon is about consistency, why not make the dash attack a good, dmging move? so you just dash at the mosnter when hes down. and possibly increase its stamina usage, so if someone decides to do a demolition derby build it atleast would need marathon runner and stamina surge on it, (also is even possible to make the turn around in the dash spend stamina?) and i feel like the mv on the power guard thrust could be bigger too, since it requires you to get into power guard and has a low recovery too. i leaves you more open that a triple poke combo, but does better dmg to compensate.
- (i dont even know if this is possible) but can you give weapons innate skills? always felt pretty weird that you would need to build the "weapon that is the best at blocking" so it doesnt suck at blocking XD even the bloody cb that has way more dmg get free guard 2 lol
ah, thought about another one, that iam pretty much sure its impossible to do via modding. you know how you can block safi's lazer and protect other hunters that are behind you? what if you could do that for any attack, but the allies had to be like, right behind you and crouched? :v that would be cool i think.
Unfortunately most of what you're asking for is beyond my capability as a modder. This was a very simple mod directly editing game files without adding anything new of my own - as soon as you start looking to add new moves or mechanics, the complexity goes way up.
Innate skills is definitely possible, but I don't think it's necessary. If I were to do it, I wouldn't give Lance any more than innate Guard 1, and for such a small change, I don't think it's really worth modding it in.
mmh i can't agree with the innate guard for lance, maybe with this mod it becomes a bit unnencessary, but it totally makes sense that best defensive weapon should have 2 levels of innate guard... using this mod since the release, love your work, would love it even more with the 2 points innate guard ;)
I've been using this for a few days now. I've tried both Alatreon, Safi and some guidinglands tempered fights. I've got to say, I really to enjoy it, but I'm ending up waaayyy ahead of everyone else on my teams in terms of DPS. It feels a bit cheesy. I agree this change is necessary and that the Lance is underpowered, but I feel like this might be a little too much for me to use consciously.
If I could respectfully request that you make a "medium" version where the values are split between the current release and the vanilla values? I would personally appreciate it. Again, I'm not criticizing your balance or claiming this is some broken mod. It just feels a little past the line for me.
Mod author probably won't do a medium version, so here's how you can edit yourself in less than 30 minutes: Download MHW Editor, here: https://www.nexusmods.com/monsterhunterworld/mods/2068?tab=files
- Extract the zip file and open MHW-Editor.exe - Click on the tab "open", and search for the files of this mod, select wp06.col - You will see a list of moves, all named just like the description of this mod. - In the column "Linked move". Click on the button "Open". - Edit the values to your liking for each move. - After you're done hit save and you're done, just install the mod like you'd do normally.
If you don't know how much motion values affect damage, check this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77ZsO3X-nrE Current changes from this mod can mean +10/20 more damage each attack even though it only increased 3-5 from most attacks for example, so be careful when changing them.
Yeah I'm not too interested in making a medium version of this mod unfortunately. This mod is already pretty conservative as far as mods that alter motion values go. The changes mostly just put Lance on equal footing with the other weapons - if you're doing more damage than the people you play with, there's a good chance you're a pretty good Lance player. Unmodded, Lance has the lowest damage of every weapon in the game, even when you consider the extra uptime Lance has. It's nearly always the slowest speedrun weapon.
If you'd like to tweak the numbers, like Jakelino said it is not too challenging to do it yourself. If you have any questions feel free to ask me!
Oh my god I accidentally used this online with friends, downloaded many months ago, and now was wondering why I could tenderize with one clutch... They didn't seem to mind, and personally? This is an awesome and welcome change, + the damage is really good. I tried Evade Lancing and it was awesome.
39 comments
-
1
-
2
JumpThe reason Lance players go for raw damage is because our element modifier was nerfed in Iceborne, from 1.0 in base game to 0.7. Restoring it to 1.0 made Kjarr Lances much better, giving our meta more variety while still keeping raw Lance viable.
This is no longer really the case, since the Fatalis Lance has so much raw that it completely takes over the meta in every matchup. Kjarr Lances might have some fringe use cases with this mod, but the Fatalis Lance will be the go to, modded or not.
This is something you can do yourself easily if you want to try your hand at modding, it is a relatively simple edit.
I do have one question: Why was the guard thrust MV nerfed ?
Isn't that the one move that makes the lance such a unique weapon ? defense being the best offense ? I do think that keeping it to it's original value would be quite nice since it would encourage the "parry" playstyle instead of the evade lance from older games.
I chose to nerf Guard Thrust to disincentivize the "slowly walk towards monster with shield raised" playstyle. Lance has strong, reactive guard options with counter and guard dash, and in my opinion, players should need to use them to use the weapon effectively. Guard Thrust is basically never used by the best Lance players, because there are simply better ways to turn defense into offense with Lance.
The stamina consumption isn't an issue nor is the chip damage, just the amount of decoration it takes to actually make the weapon function well, leaving little space to damaging decos.
(hello 4 shield hbg not taking even half hp when blocking AT namielle's nova)
heres some suggestions, altho i dont know if you can even do that with modding
theres two things that bother me on lance even tho i love the weapon.
- you dont have a big attack to use if a monster is down you sjut poke it like always or if you more advanced you dash attack finisher spam the monster.
if the weapon is about consistency, why not make the dash attack a good, dmging move? so you just dash at the mosnter when hes down. and possibly increase its stamina usage, so if someone decides to do a demolition derby build it atleast would need marathon runner and stamina surge on it, (also is even possible to make the turn around in the dash spend stamina?) and i feel like the mv on the power guard thrust could be bigger too, since it requires you to get into power guard and has a low recovery too. i leaves you more open that a triple poke combo, but does better dmg to compensate.
- (i dont even know if this is possible) but can you give weapons innate skills? always felt pretty weird that you would need to build the "weapon that is the best at blocking" so it doesnt suck at blocking XD even the bloody cb that has way more dmg get free guard 2 lol
ah, thought about another one, that iam pretty much sure its impossible to do via modding. you know how you can block safi's lazer and protect other hunters that are behind you? what if you could do that for any attack, but the allies had to be like, right behind you and crouched? :v that would be cool i think.
Innate skills is definitely possible, but I don't think it's necessary. If I were to do it, I wouldn't give Lance any more than innate Guard 1, and for such a small change, I don't think it's really worth modding it in.
using this mod since the release, love your work, would love it even more with the 2 points innate guard ;)
If I could respectfully request that you make a "medium" version where the values are split between the current release and the vanilla values? I would personally appreciate it. Again, I'm not criticizing your balance or claiming this is some broken mod. It just feels a little past the line for me.
Thanks for giving the lance some love.
Download MHW Editor, here: https://www.nexusmods.com/monsterhunterworld/mods/2068?tab=files
- Extract the zip file and open MHW-Editor.exe
- Click on the tab "open", and search for the files of this mod, select wp06.col
- You will see a list of moves, all named just like the description of this mod.
- In the column "Linked move". Click on the button "Open".
- Edit the values to your liking for each move.
- After you're done hit save and you're done, just install the mod like you'd do normally.
If you don't know how much motion values affect damage, check this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77ZsO3X-nrE
Current changes from this mod can mean +10/20 more damage each attack even though it only increased 3-5 from most attacks for example, so be careful when changing them.
If you'd like to tweak the numbers, like Jakelino said it is not too challenging to do it yourself. If you have any questions feel free to ask me!
They didn't seem to mind, and personally? This is an awesome and welcome change, + the damage is really good. I tried Evade Lancing and it was awesome.
-
1
-
2
Jump