This mod primarily takes effect during direct battles, bandit fighting and tournaments Village raids should not directly have an impact, but may be causing mutual relation drops when True Noble Opinion is used
Hello, I would like to know how this mod will work with Dramalord? Will they replace each other or complement each other? The mechanics are not entirely clear.
Hello! I really enjoy your "True" series of MODs, and I’ve been using them for a long time. I have some suggestions regarding True Relations.
I've noticed that when using True Relations, it's too easy for the protagonist to increase their relationship with companions in their party to 100. I believe that even with long-term comradeship, reaching a 100 relationship this easily is somewhat unrealistic.
So, I'd like to suggest the following:
Introduce some limitations, such as capping the relationship increase through battles at 20 or 40. A higher number should indicate a deeper friendship, and I believe that deep relationships cannot be formed just through battles. Of course, certain characters' values and personalities should also play a role in this.
Make relationship changes based on character personality and battle circumstances. For example, bold or honorable characters might develop stronger bonds in large-scale or against-the-odds battles, while merciful characters might resent actions like attacking caravans or civilians, leading to a decrease in relationship.
Implement a multiplier for relationship changes based on the scale of the battle. Small, ordinary skirmishes might not leave much of an impact, whereas large-scale battles could significantly strengthen bonds, making companions who fought in significant battles true comrades who have shared life-and-death experiences.
Add settings in the MCM for multipliers or caps, or even a toggle to stop relationship increases between the player and companions during battles.
These are my suggestions to make it more challenging to deepen relationships with companions, which could enhance immersion and be beneficial for compatibility with other MODs focused on developing character relationships.
1. Is being taken into consideration 2. Already is present within the mod 3. Multipliers are tricky since the system only stores integers from -100 to 100, a more precise system would need to entirely replace the vanilla one Currently the mod generally grants 0-2 points based on a variety of factors and RNG 4. Not a bad idea, had that implemented in the old XML style, would simply need to carry over to MCM
To add to what Cartoonist57 said above, from my experience in 2 campaigns with True Relations 2.0.3 (+ True Noble Opinion 2.0.1) on 1.2.11:
1. Companions: I always reach relationship 99-100 with freshly recruited wanderers within a mere season or two of them joining my party, even if all I do is fighting bandits, doing quests from village/town notables and occasionally joining tournaments (not even a merc). It seems, if there's a cap of total relationship one can get from battles, it does not work for me, at least with wanderers. I would not mind this to be muuuuch slower and, perhaps, capped indeed so one could not get relationships greater than, say, 40 from battles alone. EDIT: I just installed another mod that accidently exposed all relationship messages from battles (Dramalord), and if those messages to be believed, I gained 8-10 relationship points with companions from a single piece-of-cake battle of my 225 troops vs 40-something looters. No wonder that I become friends with everyone in the party that fast then.
2. Marriage: the relationship with your new wife/husband jumps to 100 the moment you make the barter deal with their clan leader. It looks like "oh, that guy just gave 12 sheep to my uncle to marry me, I now adore him!" I specifically checked this in my current campaign: my relationship with the husband-to-be was 33 right after the courtship persuasion routine, it became 100 when he joined my party after the ceremony. It wasn't the case with the vanilla relationship system, as far as I recall. And frankly speaking, I would prefer that vanilla way, with the relationships between spouses developing naturally over time instead, through battles, maybe having children, spending time together or something like that.
3. Children: reaching max relationships with your underage children requires no effort too. For example, the relationship with my eldest 4yo daughter currently sits at 98 (I guess it's because of her Deceitful trait, otherwise it would be 100), and her 2 younger siblings lag not far behind. I don't think my constantly war-campaigning character is such a great mother :)
4. (Minor suggestion for flavor) Friendships within party: currently companions become friends only with the player, as if they don't acknowledge the existence of other companions/clan members. I think it would be a nice flavor if they would befriend each other too. Ideally, I would not mind even random marriages sparking within the party, but I guess it's well beyond the scope of this mod and would require a lot of effort to implement.
5. (Minor suggestion) Siege relationships: as I understand, currently, if you defeat an army besieging a town/castle, either from inside or by attacking the siege camp from outside, you don't improve relationships with the party-less nobles within (governors or guests). I think they should be grateful to you for saving them from captivity, at least a bit. The same could be applied to commoner notables in towns too IF the besieger is of a different culture because you save them from pillaging then.
Same, I really enjoy this mod and there is one thing, if you fight just a few fights with bandits and raid decent hideout, your relationship gain is way too big, it is super easy to raise relationship. Would be great to have settings to tweak it.
I was not sure if I should ask this here or in the True Noble Opinion page, but I would like to know if there is some detailed information about how relation gains spread to other clan and family members. Mostly if it only affects vanilla events or it something more dynamic and can be applied to gains trought other mods events.
Just to add context, I am playing with Serve as Soldier, and my plan was to rise all clan relations to nearly max before becoming a vassal and getting a city, to make it "more immersive". Like earning the truth of all lords before joining them as noble. In vanilla, you only need to join any member of the clan you working on to get relations with that clan. With your True Noble Opinion, obviusly that changed.
I like the idea of having individual relations so you can have friends or enemies that are not only clan leaders. My goal would still be rise clan leaders relation to max before joining them as noble (since they are the one that vote), I don't want to feel I need to join the leader army only becouse in Serve as a Soldier, when you do kills in the battlefield and rank up, you gain relations with the lord you are currently serving. With your mod, that relation is granted to the individual. So what I was wondering if I will still rise relation with the clan leader while figthing on his wife/brother/son/daugther army.
True Noble opinion simply separates the relations to not everything defaults back to the clan leader regardless who you freed / helped / completed a mission for X ...
This mod however adds new chances to gain relations, primarily when clearing bandits you gain relations with nearby notables at varied rates and possibly with the owner of the settlement. Battles increase / decrease relations with other nobles if you are fighting with / against them and depending on the battle outcome (dishonorable nobles may blame you if a battle is lost for example or they lose too many troops).
There are other factors such as tournaments, but the above 2 are the major elements and impact family / companions as well.
Additionally, you should increase your relations gradually, and a relation gained with a noble gain may migrate to a smaller degree to their clan / family (simulating them speaking well of you).
I think I will give a try to both mods. Even if it makes harder my personal goal serving as soldier, I think I will enjoy both. Not more to lure my companions to get attacked so I can save them to increase my relations with them.
Love this and all the True mods. Much thanks for all of your work.
One thing that kind of bugs me is it makes being a mercenary more difficult. I fight everyone, which means everyone ultimately hates me. Is it possible to have a mercenary exemption or some such? I would want this for both gaining and losing relations. Mercs fight for pay, not for faction loyalty, so I wouldn't see them gaining friends this way either.
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Please tell me, during the war my relations with enemy lords constantly fall. It seems they get worse after raids on my villages
Is it coz of this mod or is it like that in vanilla?
Village raids should not directly have an impact, but may be causing mutual relation drops when True Noble Opinion is used
I've noticed that when using True Relations, it's too easy for the protagonist to increase their relationship with companions in their party to 100.
I believe that even with long-term comradeship, reaching a 100 relationship this easily is somewhat unrealistic.
So, I'd like to suggest the following:
- Introduce some limitations, such as capping the relationship increase through battles at 20 or 40. A higher number should indicate a deeper friendship, and I believe that deep relationships cannot be formed just through battles. Of course, certain characters' values and personalities should also play a role in this.
- Make relationship changes based on character personality and battle circumstances. For example, bold or honorable characters might develop stronger bonds in large-scale or against-the-odds battles, while merciful characters might resent actions like attacking caravans or civilians, leading to a decrease in relationship.
- Implement a multiplier for relationship changes based on the scale of the battle. Small, ordinary skirmishes might not leave much of an impact, whereas large-scale battles could significantly strengthen bonds, making companions who fought in significant battles true comrades who have shared life-and-death experiences.
- Add settings in the MCM for multipliers or caps, or even a toggle to stop relationship increases between the player and companions during battles.
These are my suggestions to make it more challenging to deepen relationships with companions, which could enhance immersion and be beneficial for compatibility with other MODs focused on developing character relationships.1. Is being taken into consideration
2. Already is present within the mod
3. Multipliers are tricky since the system only stores integers from -100 to 100, a more precise system would need to entirely replace the vanilla one
Currently the mod generally grants 0-2 points based on a variety of factors and RNG
4. Not a bad idea, had that implemented in the old XML style, would simply need to carry over to MCM
1. Companions: I always reach relationship 99-100 with freshly recruited wanderers within a mere season or two of them joining my party, even if all I do is fighting bandits, doing quests from village/town notables and occasionally joining tournaments (not even a merc). It seems, if there's a cap of total relationship one can get from battles, it does not work for me, at least with wanderers. I would not mind this to be muuuuch slower and, perhaps, capped indeed so one could not get relationships greater than, say, 40 from battles alone. EDIT: I just installed another mod that accidently exposed all relationship messages from battles (Dramalord), and if those messages to be believed, I gained 8-10 relationship points with companions from a single piece-of-cake battle of my 225 troops vs 40-something looters. No wonder that I become friends with everyone in the party that fast then.
2. Marriage: the relationship with your new wife/husband jumps to 100 the moment you make the barter deal with their clan leader. It looks like "oh, that guy just gave 12 sheep to my uncle to marry me, I now adore him!" I specifically checked this in my current campaign: my relationship with the husband-to-be was 33 right after the courtship persuasion routine, it became 100 when he joined my party after the ceremony. It wasn't the case with the vanilla relationship system, as far as I recall. And frankly speaking, I would prefer that vanilla way, with the relationships between spouses developing naturally over time instead, through battles, maybe having children, spending time together or something like that.
3. Children: reaching max relationships with your underage children requires no effort too. For example, the relationship with my eldest 4yo daughter currently sits at 98 (I guess it's because of her Deceitful trait, otherwise it would be 100), and her 2 younger siblings lag not far behind. I don't think my constantly war-campaigning character is such a great mother :)
4. (Minor suggestion for flavor) Friendships within party: currently companions become friends only with the player, as if they don't acknowledge the existence of other companions/clan members. I think it would be a nice flavor if they would befriend each other too. Ideally, I would not mind even random marriages sparking within the party, but I guess it's well beyond the scope of this mod and would require a lot of effort to implement.
5. (Minor suggestion) Siege relationships: as I understand, currently, if you defeat an army besieging a town/castle, either from inside or by attacking the siege camp from outside, you don't improve relationships with the party-less nobles within (governors or guests). I think they should be grateful to you for saving them from captivity, at least a bit. The same could be applied to commoner notables in towns too IF the besieger is of a different culture because you save them from pillaging then.
BTW, thanks for the great mods!
Just to add context, I am playing with Serve as Soldier, and my plan was to rise all clan relations to nearly max before becoming a vassal and getting a city, to make it "more immersive". Like earning the truth of all lords before joining them as noble.
In vanilla, you only need to join any member of the clan you working on to get relations with that clan. With your True Noble Opinion, obviusly that changed.
I like the idea of having individual relations so you can have friends or enemies that are not only clan leaders. My goal would still be rise clan leaders relation to max before joining them as noble (since they are the one that vote), I don't want to feel I need to join the leader army only becouse in Serve as a Soldier, when you do kills in the battlefield and rank up, you gain relations with the lord you are currently serving. With your mod, that relation is granted to the individual. So what I was wondering if I will still rise relation with the clan leader while figthing on his wife/brother/son/daugther army.
This mod however adds new chances to gain relations, primarily when clearing bandits you gain relations with nearby notables at varied rates and possibly with the owner of the settlement.
Battles increase / decrease relations with other nobles if you are fighting with / against them and depending on the battle outcome (dishonorable nobles may blame you if a battle is lost for example or they lose too many troops).
There are other factors such as tournaments, but the above 2 are the major elements and impact family / companions as well.
Additionally, you should increase your relations gradually, and a relation gained with a noble gain may migrate to a smaller degree to their clan / family (simulating them speaking well of you).
I think I will give a try to both mods. Even if it makes harder my personal goal serving as soldier, I think I will enjoy both. Not more to lure my companions to get attacked so I can save them to increase my relations with them.
Does it go well with the EagleRising mod?
One thing that kind of bugs me is it makes being a mercenary more difficult. I fight everyone, which means everyone ultimately hates me. Is it possible to have a mercenary exemption or some such? I would want this for both gaining and losing relations. Mercs fight for pay, not for faction loyalty, so I wouldn't see them gaining friends this way either.
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Jump