Your mod is great, good balance (I'm not very far in the game, so I can only judge the start phase). I also like that it does not add item stuff and that rocks keep blunt damage.
Maybe accuracy of bows could be reduced a bit further? I don't mind strong bows piercing armor from short distance but the main problem of video game archery is "full damage at max distance". Here coupled with still very accurate shooting of low tier bandits from beyond eyes reach it can be annoying.
Do you know what the "thrust speed" of the projectiles is for? There is also "missile speed", so the question is, what speed is used for damage calculation?
Thanks! I think the damage do scale with missile speed/distance though. Probably not as big as the damage stat itself in close distance. I do notice however that range weapon deal much higher damage shooting at closer target than one that need a long curving arc to hit. So in a sense missile speed determine the effective range of range weapon and getting hit from long distance deal significantly less damage for bow with lower missile speed which is usually the case for low tier bow that bandits are using.
I have never tried testing what thrust speed affected for ammo since most of them have 0 stats for it, for range weapon however from what I observed comparing bow and crossbow. I think thrust speed is how fast you can ready/aim with that weapon while Speed rating determine how fast the weapon reload. So if an ammo have positive thrust speed stat it might make the weapon ready/aim fast and if it have positive speed rating it might make the reload faster. thrust_speed="76" speed_rating="86"
also the version 1.0.1 of this mod have less accuracy with otherwise pretty much identical stats to 1.0.2 so if you want less accuracy try using 1.0.1
Interesting. Maybe I will fiddle around a bit with the stats. I think bows reload too fast, in reality it's possible with weak bows and a lot of training to shoot very fast, but that's not valid for war bows under battlefield conditions.
Yesterday I had a funny experience. I cleared a bandit hideout and had terrible casualties, nearly all my party, low level (highest was level 3 troops) but twice as numerous as the bandits, got annihilated. After that, when in town for trade, I saw that bows had pierce damage and the rest of their machinegun stats shown again. For some strange and unknown reasons your module was not loaded, leading to a very miserable game experience. Luckily closing and restarting changed that.
Hi, I have a question about tournament arrows-bolts and the normal ones. As far as I can see they have similar stats and damage now. Right? I'm using your mod together with Armor does something FYI.
PS I 'd also like to ask about throwable axes which have Invalid damage. Is that a base game actual bug or just a text issue? Should we use them? https://imgur.com/yLogB1U
Yes for tournament its using similar stats as most other ammos. Though I personally no longer use Armor does something and instead using Custom damage due to how easy to configure the overall effectiveness of armour and also you can now customize how penetrative each type of attack against armour. I think its base game bug with throwing axe damage text though they still report as dealing cut damage when you throw them.
I see, so there's no actual difference between them and the normal arrows and bolts, got it. Custom damage sounds very interesting indeed. I'll definitely give it a shot if the configuration process isn't a big hassle. I tried to fix the issue myself cause I can read simplified code, but as it seems the axes are missing something in their code's structure. The other throwables are showing up correctly though. If they still report dealing cut damage then it's ok, probably a text issue or something. Do you know any way of fixing it or are you planning to do it at some point if they don't fix it?
How to check if a weapon deals a certain type of damage during battles btw?
This custom damage mod looks pretty good, what values are you using?
I'm trying to use the default values except ArmorThresholdFactorP set to 0.4 and ArmorThresholdFactorC set to 0.6. I don't want full realism where cutting damage is useless like in certain warband mods. Was also thinking about setting ArmorAbsorbFactor> to 4.0 because blunt damage seems very oppressive right now and i think there are no other ways to migate it?
I am not sure but personally I use a non test value of <BluntFactorBlunt>0.85</BluntFactorBlunt> not sure if another 15% gonna also be blunt or just being count as no damage haha. I also use the detect material option with value below
sorta make leather better against blunt, mail less effective against pierce and plate less effective against blunt (if the factor for blunt work anyway) I found the absorbe value of 1.6 - 1.7 already make those heavy armour guy very tanky. So I would advise against 4.0 ...... between I also use "Skills Actually Matter" so most of the combat skill give more damage per skill point(without this mod highly skill unit doesn't really do a lot more damage compare to lower skilled one though I toned down the bonus damage and attack speed from this mod down as its too much with default mod setting) and I still found it very hard to damage those tier 6 heavy armour troop unless I got a full momentum and swing in.
I guess i will try reducing the blunt factor if it even works.
Just getting kinda frustrated by looters in early game and militia with hammers in sieges. Siege ladders are a death trap if the enemy garrison is bigger than 75 guys since they can swarm all 4 ladders, siege towers are a buggy mess and using 4 trebuchets to devastate all enemy defenses and walls takes a very long time.
I use Troop Collision and siege tower and castle stairs fix mod to improve infantry combat which it does for field battles but sieges are very frustrating right now.
Hi it's me again, I assume the mod dont need an update even though taleworlds adjusted range weapon prices because this mod will overwrite those? Thanks
Looks like the best ranged mod except it so very needlessly changes market values... I suggest you to make it modular or disable market changes so it's just a range refine mod.
The reason I need to fix the value is because with no fixed value the game will calculate their value from their stats... This mod reduce the stats of most bow and increase damage of ammos very dramatically.
The result will be that best bows will end up less than 1k in price while arrows will become 200k. This problem happen with "Ranged Weapons Rebalanced" mod before and the author had to take the mod down due to all the weird item prices.
My suggestion is editing this mod xml file for the value that you think that are more appropriated for now...
I would like to apologize that my reply made you feel very bad. I absolutely have no intention to slight or insult you in anyway. Your point was also very valid about keeping the vanilla price as option to keep this simply as range balancing mod. Though the price fix is very important for this mod to keep the game in playable state due to the auto-pricing system Taleworlds use.
In any case thanks again for the feedbacks I hope every one enjoy the game and the mod!
I'm not sure if it's because of this mod, but siege engines take a lot more damage from arrows now. My siege towers don't even make it to the walls because of arrows raining down on em (Not even catapults). Has anyone by chance found the .xml file to increase object HP?
EDIT: Welp, it's not siegeengines.xml in Mount & Blade II Bannerlord\Modules\Native\ModuleData. I tried tripling the Max HP line for them there but no effect.
I think it is definitely affected by this mod since most of the projectile now do cut damage and Cut damage deal a lot of damage to those siege towers, doors basically any destructible object. Damn it Legolas...
I think the best solution is to make siege engine have much higher HP like what you tried but its pretty weird that with triple Max HP line not working may be its old xml that they left there. I'll do some test and and see if its possible to do anything about this thanks. Also doing this even if its working will probably make them harder to destroy by defensive siege weapons so I am not entirely sure how balance this will be.
*You are right, I edited the hitpoint of siege tower in siegeengines.xml so they have 100 times less HP. Doesn't seem to be working probably no longer linked to game siege engine stats.
*I did some test in custom battle siege and archers seem to almost destroy the siege tower if they really focus fire on it. Like 20% hp left when they hit the wall, not sure if this is a blessing or curse lol. Though in some case they aim more toward the troop and rarely shoot at the tower.
Does this mod work with the Enhanced Battle test mod - Im trying to test the changes you made, but every troop is still doing piercing damage and so am I in custom battles.
Not sure if it work with Enhanced Battle test but if the unit in the test use equipment from base game it should also be affected by this mod. Also some arrow like bodkin and pierce arrow remain as piercing
Also I include custom battle in the dependency and IncludedGameTypes but I am not sure Enhanced Battle Test count as custom battle or not..
Sorry for the late reply. Yes you can remove/add this mod midgame due to this mod only change the stats of existing items while adding no new items so it should be safe doing both.
Hi. Would you happen to know a way for an arrow to fly straight? I've tried tweaking the missile speed so now my arrow is flying straight, but aim is way below where I actually aimed.
In Native/ModuleData folder there is a file call managed_core_parameters.xml there are lines of code that might help you achieve what you said
<managed_core_parameter id="AirFrictionArrow" value="0.003"/> This one probably change arrow friction so value closer to 0 will mean it fire more straight.
There is another line that might compensate the aim for range weapon <managed_core_parameter id="RangedAddedElevationForCrosshair" value="-0.035"/> may be by adjusting this to 0 (default is -0.035) or above might help with the aim.
I like your balance changes! I played a few hours with Range Refine and I can only recommend it. The only thing I am a bit sceptical about is the accuracy nerf, especially on low levels that felt a bit too heavy for me.
Will link on my modpage regardless and hope more people will try Range Refine.
Thanks for the feedback and I might consider reducing the accuracy nerf. The reason they were being nerf so much is because many low level units and bandits were using those lower tier bow. At lower level those forest bandits were absolutely nightmare to new player and low level troops.... the reduction to accuracy was intended to reduce their effectively at long - medium range area.
Problem is that a lot of Archer Militia (the special garrison units) also use the Hunting Bow and with an accuracy of 75 they've become absolute trash at what they should do.
Made an update to the mod increase accuracy for most weapons especially lower tier one. Now that 75 accuracy become 82 (vanilla is 85) so they won't be as useless anymore.
Won't the fixed low prices of items cause them not to appear in the shops anymore? I read that the value of items is taken into account when towns produce equipment and add them to the market, so making them cheaper could cause them to disappear.
I want to use this mod on top of Armour does Something because I still think crossbows should be good vs armour, but the above worries me a bit.
54 comments
Maybe accuracy of bows could be reduced a bit further? I don't mind strong bows piercing armor from short distance but the main problem of video game archery is "full damage at max distance". Here coupled with still very accurate shooting of low tier bandits from beyond eyes reach it can be annoying.
Do you know what the "thrust speed" of the projectiles is for? There is also "missile speed", so the question is, what speed is used for damage calculation?
I have never tried testing what thrust speed affected for ammo since most of them have 0 stats for it, for range weapon however from what I observed comparing bow and crossbow. I think thrust speed is how fast you can ready/aim with that weapon while Speed rating determine how fast the weapon reload. So if an ammo have positive thrust speed stat it might make the weapon ready/aim fast and if it have positive speed rating it might make the reload faster.
thrust_speed="76"
speed_rating="86"
also the version 1.0.1 of this mod have less accuracy with otherwise pretty much identical stats to 1.0.2 so if you want less accuracy try using 1.0.1
Yesterday I had a funny experience. I cleared a bandit hideout and had terrible casualties, nearly all my party, low level (highest was level 3 troops) but twice as numerous as the bandits, got annihilated. After that, when in town for trade, I saw that bows had pierce damage and the rest of their machinegun stats shown again. For some strange and unknown reasons your module was not loaded, leading to a very miserable game experience. Luckily closing and restarting changed that.
Hi,
I have a question about tournament arrows-bolts and the normal ones. As far as I can see they have similar stats and damage now. Right?
I'm using your mod together with Armor does something FYI.
PS
I 'd also like to ask about throwable axes which have Invalid damage. Is that a base game actual bug or just a text issue? Should we use them?
https://imgur.com/yLogB1U
Cheers!
I think its base game bug with throwing axe damage text though they still report as dealing cut damage when you throw them.
Custom damage sounds very interesting indeed. I'll definitely give it a shot if the configuration process isn't a big hassle.
I tried to fix the issue myself cause I can read simplified code, but as it seems the axes are missing something in their code's structure. The other throwables are showing up correctly though. If they still report dealing cut damage then it's ok, probably a text issue or something. Do you know any way of fixing it or are you planning to do it at some point if they don't fix it?
How to check if a weapon deals a certain type of damage during battles btw?
Cheers.
Thanks for the info etc
I'm trying to use the default values except ArmorThresholdFactorP set to 0.4 and ArmorThresholdFactorC set to 0.6. I don't want full realism where cutting damage is useless like in certain warband mods.
Was also thinking about setting ArmorAbsorbFactor> to 4.0 because blunt damage seems very oppressive right now and i think there are no other ways to migate it?
<materials>
<cloth>
<BluntFactorCut>0.2</BluntFactorCut>
<BluntFactorPierce>0.1</BluntFactorPierce>
<BluntFactorBlunt>0.85</BluntFactorBlunt>
<ArmorAbsorbFactor>1.60</ArmorAbsorbFactor>
<ArmorThresholdFactorPierce>0.35</ArmorThresholdFactorPierce>
<ArmorThresholdFactorCut>0.52</ArmorThresholdFactorCut>
</cloth>
<leather>
<BluntFactorCut>0.2</BluntFactorCut>
<BluntFactorPierce>0.1</BluntFactorPierce>
<BluntFactorBlunt>0.7</BluntFactorBlunt>
<ArmorAbsorbFactor>1.60</ArmorAbsorbFactor>
<ArmorThresholdFactorPierce>0.45</ArmorThresholdFactorPierce>
<ArmorThresholdFactorCut>0.6</ArmorThresholdFactorCut>
</leather>
<chainmail>
<BluntFactorCut>0.2</BluntFactorCut>
<BluntFactorPierce>0.2</BluntFactorPierce>
<BluntFactorBlunt>0.85</BluntFactorBlunt>
<ArmorAbsorbFactor>1.60</ArmorAbsorbFactor>
<ArmorThresholdFactorPierce>0.3</ArmorThresholdFactorPierce>
<ArmorThresholdFactorCut>0.65</ArmorThresholdFactorCut>
</chainmail>
<plate>
<BluntFactorCut>0.2</BluntFactorCut>
<BluntFactorPierce>0.1</BluntFactorPierce>
<BluntFactorBlunt>1.0</BluntFactorBlunt>
<ArmorAbsorbFactor>1.70</ArmorAbsorbFactor>
<ArmorThresholdFactorPierce>0.5</ArmorThresholdFactorPierce>
<ArmorThresholdFactorCut>0.75</ArmorThresholdFactorCut>
</plate>
</materials>
sorta make leather better against blunt, mail less effective against pierce and plate less effective against blunt (if the factor for blunt work anyway) I found the absorbe value of 1.6 - 1.7 already make those heavy armour guy very tanky. So I would advise against 4.0 ...... between I also use "Skills Actually Matter" so most of the combat skill give more damage per skill point(without this mod highly skill unit doesn't really do a lot more damage compare to lower skilled one though I toned down the bonus damage and attack speed from this mod down as its too much with default mod setting) and I still found it very hard to damage those tier 6 heavy armour troop unless I got a full momentum and swing in.
Just getting kinda frustrated by looters in early game and militia with hammers in sieges. Siege ladders are a death trap if the enemy garrison is bigger than 75 guys since they can swarm all 4 ladders, siege towers are a buggy mess and using 4 trebuchets to devastate all enemy defenses and walls takes a very long time.
I use Troop Collision and siege tower and castle stairs fix mod to improve infantry combat which it does for field battles but sieges are very frustrating right now.
The result will be that best bows will end up less than 1k in price while arrows will become 200k.
This problem happen with "Ranged Weapons Rebalanced" mod before and the author had to take the mod down due to all the weird item prices.
My suggestion is editing this mod xml file for the value that you think that are more appropriated for now...
Your point was also very valid about keeping the vanilla price as option to keep this simply as range balancing mod. Though the price fix is very important for this mod to keep the game in playable state due to the auto-pricing system Taleworlds use.
In any case thanks again for the feedbacks I hope every one enjoy the game and the mod!
EDIT: Welp, it's not siegeengines.xml in Mount & Blade II Bannerlord\Modules\Native\ModuleData. I tried tripling the Max HP line for them there but no effect.
I think the best solution is to make siege engine have much higher HP like what you tried but its pretty weird that with triple Max HP line not working may be its old xml that they left there. I'll do some test and and see if its possible to do anything about this thanks. Also doing this even if its working will probably make them harder to destroy by defensive siege weapons so I am not entirely sure how balance this will be.
*You are right, I edited the hitpoint of siege tower in siegeengines.xml so they have 100 times less HP. Doesn't seem to be working probably no longer linked to game siege engine stats.
*I did some test in custom battle siege and archers seem to almost destroy the siege tower if they really focus fire on it. Like 20% hp left when they hit the wall, not sure if this is a blessing or curse lol. Though in some case they aim more toward the troop and rarely shoot at the tower.
Also I include custom battle in the dependency and IncludedGameTypes but I am not sure Enhanced Battle Test count as custom battle or not..
<managed_core_parameter id="AirFrictionArrow" value="0.003"/>
This one probably change arrow friction so value closer to 0 will mean it fire more straight.
There is another line that might compensate the aim for range weapon
<managed_core_parameter id="RangedAddedElevationForCrosshair" value="-0.035"/>
may be by adjusting this to 0 (default is -0.035) or above might help with the aim.
However... tried tweaking both of them in last 4 hours with no success... will try more... :'(
Will link on my modpage regardless and hope more people will try Range Refine.
I want to use this mod on top of Armour does Something because I still think crossbows should be good vs armour, but the above worries me a bit.
Also I change some of the culture for crossbow from neutral culture to Empire or Vladian so it should only appear near those two factions