- Combing through survivial/skill requirements - For the interest of simplicity and compatibility anything beyond a recipe change and a value change will be separated into another mod.
Here's a small update and some fixes I promised before summer hits, in the VRE 1.2 Southwest Spices update.
36 recipes added are here, as well as bug fixes and some categorization fixes. Future updates will likely reorient the survival/skill crafting requirements. I don't have any plans for major recipe overhauls other than random ideas.
My main goal will be releasing the mods I've already had made but haven't published, however. The support has been noted and greatly appreciated! All recommendations have been considered or added so feel free to add more
I think I found the culprit... Changing the "Function Parameter" of "1" to "0" in the GECK (for all the recipes) fixes this, removing the perk from my character also prevents the recipes from appearing in the workbench which is the expected behavior, instead of it just never showing up even with the perk. Not really sure if this is a proper fix but it seems fine ATM.
In case anyone else sees this issue and wants to fix it, it's very easy to do in FNVEdit. Just go down the recipes in the mod one at a time, looking for recipes that have conditions. Expand the condition field with the little plus sign. In that expanded area, find the Integer field and set it to 0.
Once you've gone through all the recipes, exit FNVEdit, making sure to click ok when it asks you to save the mod file. Et voila, you're done.
It's awesome to have more recipe options but the list is getting long. All of the recipes should be categorized by type/function like antivenoms, healing/bitter drink stuff ect should be in the aid category and all the Turpentine and flour stuff in the misc category to help unbloat the list when scrolling by category.
Also I know you already had this discussion with @MaqueTonight about the "eat your shoes" mentality. As I hunter I have to shake my head at getting much out of hides for food, if your knifework is good there is very little usable fat/sinew still attached and guys have starved to death on more than that due to lack of nutrients. Could you make a separate file without those? It's your mod though and I respect that.
I was thinking for example you could make each raw meat from all creature types be a simple jerky, no additional ingredient required cause thats where I seem to end up in a pinch. Hey I got this gecko steak and no damn buffalo gourd seed or other such ingredients(wine) you dont come by often enough in Famine/JUS. Which I understand your hide jerky does it just makes me cringe abit. Your bloatfly breakdown is a great example you have 3 bloatfly meat is just a standard food item, then there is sweet (add nuka cola or other soda) and some other recipe.
As I hunter I have to shake my head at getting much out of hides for food, if your knifework is good there is very little usable fat/sinew still attached and guys have starved to death on more than that due to lack of nutrients.
The hides was more about being justifiable enough to create another meat mechanic rather than engaging any sort of realism.
Part of this comes from how unrealistic the tanning "mechanic" is in the first place. There's no reasonable amount of time or effort invested, you just click and get the hide in your inventory. From this mindset, I view animal skins, for example, coyote hide, not literally being a tanned coyote hide when you pick it up, but rather just being an assortment of animal parts that can be refined into more useful items which is represented as fur hide. For example, Nightstalker tails to coyote steaks isn't to imply a tail is a steak worth of meat, it's meant to imply that when you kill a nightstalker, there is enough meat to harvest food as well as the tail. From a roleplay perspective, you aren't killing a coyote, and then skinning and gutting it there, you're killing a coyote, bringing the corpse to the campfire, and then separating it into fresh meat, meat for jerky, the hide, etc. This doesn't work as well if you find a coyote hide separately from a corpse, obviously, for the same reason my mod has the logical problem of being able to make certain edible items out of salvaged pre-war ruins.
To be honest I'm a little conflicted because while from a gameplay perspective, the problem is simply that animals don't drop enough meat, ergo I make their other items edible... but from a roleplay perspective I actually TOTALLY agree with you. My ideal set up would be more similar to Skyrim's Hunterborn - an entire bighorner being represented as one steak is simply ridiculous. Killing five more to then not even get any meat drops is immersion-shattering. I would prefer it to be something like, requires a knife and several in game hours and a survival check, but you receive 5-10 or even more steaks, hides depending on your skill, miscellaneous ingredients, etc This is all a bit of me thinking out loud to say
Making a version without hide jerky for immersion is something I can totally do, I'll either get it done when I have time to work again or I'll lump it in as an optional patch for the next update. Regardless of my opinions user modularity is extremely important to me and I want people to be able to play how they want.
The consideration for the recipes being cluttered has been heard and is part of what I plan on dealing with in the next update.
A mod that makes hunting not even necessarily realistic but at all mired in real logic is something i've wanted a long time for FNV. I've had plans to potentially use Wasteland Kitchen as a framework for this.
This is far beyond the scope of VRE, but ideally I'd have a foraging mechanic to find food without meat and eating animals would be dramatically harder and dramatically more rewarding. And additionally, on the topic of nutrients, this is actually another problem I wish to solve - I LOVED Imp's More Complex Needs, which includes a vitamin/nutrition mechanic, but the years have simply worn away its compatibility with modern setups. In my ideal world, eating jerky and, you know, your shoes, with my mod, would raise your "Fullness" value while not moving your calories or nutrition values up at all, solely for truly dramatic or roleplay heavy moments like DUST or the Sierra Madre or Lonesome Road, different eggs would be meaningfully different, and it isn't possible to die of starvation over a group of four corpses, REGARDLESS of how badly RNG screws you, because even with my mod as it is you can kill four lakelurks, four 300 pound giant masses of fish and egg and get 0 (zero) food from it.
Anyway the input is greatly valued and I'll release the patch for "No Hides Into Jerky Edition" when I can
With the explanation you gave it actually makes sense now why you chose to do that. Video games are always a balance between realism and convenience/playability. Especially as you say the animals don't drop enough meat which is one of the things the FAMINE mod does. I like the mod as it tries to make the wasteland a little more scarce for finding sweet loot but goofy for trying to get meat off a bighorner.
I totally like how your thinking about the hunterborn style " I would prefer it to be something like, requires a knife and several in game hours and a survival check, but you receive 5-10 or even more steaks, hides depending on your skill, miscellaneous ingredients, etc This is all a bit of me thinking out loud to say". This sounds like a great idea, It sounds like you already plan to do what most people are going to suggest.
Awesome that you may have plans for more complex needs/hunting. Would you stuff be compatible with JPSawyers and famine? So far the recipes mod is working flawlessly. It would be great if your time ever permitted for a foraging mod. One of the things that always bugged me was that Sunny teaches you to make healing powder and then there isnt really that many plants around. If I want the I have to survive out in the desert and not fast travel back to safety every time I get in trouble I wish they had populated the map with more usable plants and such. I know its a wasteland and I stand by what I said about FAMINE being useful in the sense its nice to not find huge amounts of caps and ammo everywhere like the area has already been at least partially picked over by scavers. There I go ranting now lol.
" In my ideal world, eating jerky and, you know, your shoes, with my mod, would raise your "Fullness" value while not moving your calories or nutrition values up at all, solely for truly dramatic or roleplay heavy moments like DUST or the Sierra Madre or Lonesome Road, different eggs would be meaningfully different, and it isn't possible to die of starvation over a group of four corpses, REGARDLESS of how badly RNG screws you, because even with my mod as it is you can kill four lakelurks, four 300 pound giant masses of fish and egg and get 0 (zero) food from it."
Man I get you especially about any decent sized animal that drops nothing lol.
Also what is the soap from brahmin meat for? I didnt understand what the soap recipes are for, could be me being blind as a bat.
Thanks for taking the time to give a detailed reply, its great to hear your thought process.
Would you stuff be compatible with JPSawyers and famine
I use famine in my own playthrough and plan on adapting Jsawyer's mod into my modlist over the next year or so, so yes. Compatibility in this regard is important to me.
Also what is the soap from brahmin meat for?
Abraxo is an ingredient for dynamite, but honestly it's one of the earlier recipes I envisioned when the mod was less concrete and I just left it in for a fight club reference. But in the next update I'll be using abraxo for certain medicinal recipes.
The foraging mod is actually something that's been at the forefront of my mind for a while, but I'm more limited by my own skills and creativity in that regard than anything else. My current conception is probably, you press a button, roll a survival check that takes an in-game hour, and get an edible item for it. We'll see if my amateur scripting can handle that.
Honestly one of the best, must-have mods on the Nexus for how much it definitely seems like it ought to have been in the game at launch. It's just sort of a glaring oversight, so it's nice to have a mod finally that seems to cover all the bases of balance, versatility-of-items, and "new" content. You've done a great job and really ought to be proud. Thanks for makin' my game a hell of a lot more enjoyable; cheers <3
These recipes look very nicely balanced for my load order, and I also really like the names the new recipes have as well as this having basically no compatibility issues with things like S6S's mods. A funny question though related to one of the recipes, how does wonder glue turn a long fuse dynamite into a normal one? My guess is that you glue to fuse the fuse to itself so it has the same length of burn as a normal stick of dynamite but I don't know. You could use scissors instead of wonderglue, but it honestly doesn't matter and it's nice that you can convert the types of dynamite back n forth with no loss. In any case good job with this mod!
I actually went through a discussion like this in my head, originally I wanted to make it reliant on scissors that get returned, simultaneously scissors are rare but if they get returned there's no real cost and it wouldn't make sense for them to be a consumable, a sharp rock or a knife would be adequate for cutting a fuse. A couple of recipes have problems like this, where one ingredient is adequately represented by more than one thing, but an excess of recipes would be clutter - I don't like the idea that you need scissors from a random pre-war ruin instead of a hunting knife, but I also don't like the idea of having six different recipes for dynamite, one for scissors, one for a bowie knife, one for a combat knife, one for a stiletto... etc.
I think the specific logic I used was that the player would be taking the cap off the dynamite, pushing the fuse through to make it shorter and then gluing it back into place, and vice versa to make it longer. So I made both wonderglue for simplicity.
I'd like to be able to use alternatives to Vodka for crafting things like Fiery Purgatives and other recipes that need it (Atomic Cocktail, etc.) Vodka is most likely used because of it's strength, so things like Beer and Wine shouldn't be usable, but things like Whiskey, Absinthe, and Moonshine would be valid substitutes due to their fairly high alcohol content.
IMO turning leather belts into rat meat should be removed. These are belts that have been sitting as belts for 200+ years, there's no way you're getting meat out of that.
"Eat your shoes" is too integral to the concept of the mod for me to remove entirely. Thinking it over, the recipe as it stands is probably too easy for its rough-and-tumble nature, but my problem is there's no properly Terrible-But-Edible consumable to approximate something that provides no nutrition but makes you feel marginally more full that would only be eaten in an absolute survival situation. Belts are specific enough and useful enough that I don't think players will be hoarding them to get -1 STR meat instead of crafting with them. Originally, I wanted to add a special consumable you could get by breaking down leather dusters, that gave you a minor amount of food at a lasting debuff, like -100 FOD but -4 STR. It came out too complicated for my taste.
I will probably increase the requirement significantly to like 6 or even 10 belts after reviewing their crafting requirements again, but I don't think there are actually that many belts throughout the game that aren't already in food-laden areas. I might also just change it from belts to Rawhide Hats, my original problem with this was how many cowboy hats there are in the game.
Okay, with that in mind, and remembering the Charlie Chaplin video, and also remembering an incident in which Werner Herzog ate his shoe, I wish to modify my statement. If anything, just to help with immersion, you could rename the derived product to something else, even if it has to have the mesh and texture of a meat product. Just my two cents on that.
The input is valued and I'll see if I can do anything along those lines. I had plans to release the idea as its own mod originally, I might bundle it together with the Wasteland Kitchen patch to do what you describe.
To add a little context, I'm mostly playing Fallout: Dust right now and find this mod a great addition to it. Having to manage my resources is one thing, but your mod helps make it so that I have to think about what kinds of trade-offs to make. I could use what little purified water I have to make bitter drink, but that means I can't freely drink that water either. Which is chef's kiss.
Suggestion: Make a new food-type for cooked belts. Call it a deep-fried belt, lol. Same stats as rat meat. Everyone wins and we get a joke out of it too!
I'm glad to hear you're enjoying it! My DUST playthrough was very impactful to my view of survivalism, so a lot of recipes are built upon my experiences there. Enabling player choices is the core of my modding philosophy.
Additionally, In the future I might include a recipe pack for dust that includes Thorazine, etc.
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Check out my "partnered" mod, Hank Williams Flour Hour Radio!
Planned Updates
- Combing through survivial/skill requirements
- For the interest of simplicity and compatibility anything beyond a recipe change and a value change will be separated into another mod.
36 recipes added are here, as well as bug fixes and some categorization fixes. Future updates will likely reorient the survival/skill crafting requirements. I don't have any plans for major recipe overhauls other than random ideas.
My main goal will be releasing the mods I've already had made but haven't published, however. The support has been noted and greatly appreciated! All recommendations have been considered or added so feel free to add more
EDIT: I'm making use of all the mods in the Viva New Vegas modding guide if that helps.
Just go down the recipes in the mod one at a time, looking for recipes that have conditions.
Expand the condition field with the little plus sign.
In that expanded area, find the Integer field and set it to 0.
Once you've gone through all the recipes, exit FNVEdit, making sure to click ok when it asks you to save the mod file.
Et voila, you're done.
Couple suggestions:
It's awesome to have more recipe options but the list is getting long. All of the recipes should be categorized by type/function like antivenoms, healing/bitter drink stuff ect should be in the aid category and all the Turpentine and flour stuff in the misc category to help unbloat the list when scrolling by category.
Also I know you already had this discussion with @MaqueTonight about the "eat your shoes" mentality. As I hunter I have to shake my head at getting much out of hides for food, if your knifework is good there is very little usable fat/sinew still attached and guys have starved to death on more than that due to lack of nutrients. Could you make a separate file without those? It's your mod though and I respect that.
I was thinking for example you could make each raw meat from all creature types be a simple jerky, no additional ingredient required cause thats where I seem to end up in a pinch. Hey I got this gecko steak and no damn buffalo gourd seed or other such ingredients(wine) you dont come by often enough in Famine/JUS. Which I understand your hide jerky does it just makes me cringe abit. Your bloatfly breakdown is a great example you have 3 bloatfly meat is just a standard food item, then there is sweet (add nuka cola or other soda) and some other recipe.
Just my thoughts your doing great work
The hides was more about being justifiable enough to create another meat mechanic rather than engaging any sort of realism.
Part of this comes from how unrealistic the tanning "mechanic" is in the first place. There's no reasonable amount of time or effort invested, you just click and get the hide in your inventory. From this mindset, I view animal skins, for example, coyote hide, not literally being a tanned coyote hide when you pick it up, but rather just being an assortment of animal parts that can be refined into more useful items which is represented as fur hide. For example, Nightstalker tails to coyote steaks isn't to imply a tail is a steak worth of meat, it's meant to imply that when you kill a nightstalker, there is enough meat to harvest food as well as the tail. From a roleplay perspective, you aren't killing a coyote, and then skinning and gutting it there, you're killing a coyote, bringing the corpse to the campfire, and then separating it into fresh meat, meat for jerky, the hide, etc. This doesn't work as well if you find a coyote hide separately from a corpse, obviously, for the same reason my mod has the logical problem of being able to make certain edible items out of salvaged pre-war ruins.
To be honest I'm a little conflicted because while from a gameplay perspective, the problem is simply that animals don't drop enough meat, ergo I make their other items edible... but from a roleplay perspective I actually TOTALLY agree with you. My ideal set up would be more similar to Skyrim's Hunterborn - an entire bighorner being represented as one steak is simply ridiculous. Killing five more to then not even get any meat drops is immersion-shattering. I would prefer it to be something like, requires a knife and several in game hours and a survival check, but you receive 5-10 or even more steaks, hides depending on your skill, miscellaneous ingredients, etc This is all a bit of me thinking out loud to say
This is far beyond the scope of VRE, but ideally I'd have a foraging mechanic to find food without meat and eating animals would be dramatically harder and dramatically more rewarding. And additionally, on the topic of nutrients, this is actually another problem I wish to solve - I LOVED Imp's More Complex Needs, which includes a vitamin/nutrition mechanic, but the years have simply worn away its compatibility with modern setups. In my ideal world, eating jerky and, you know, your shoes, with my mod, would raise your "Fullness" value while not moving your calories or nutrition values up at all, solely for truly dramatic or roleplay heavy moments like DUST or the Sierra Madre or Lonesome Road, different eggs would be meaningfully different, and it isn't possible to die of starvation over a group of four corpses, REGARDLESS of how badly RNG screws you, because even with my mod as it is you can kill four lakelurks, four 300 pound giant masses of fish and egg and get 0 (zero) food from it.
Anyway the input is greatly valued and I'll release the patch for "No Hides Into Jerky Edition" when I can
I totally like how your thinking about the hunterborn style " I would prefer it to be something like, requires a knife and several in game hours and a survival check, but you receive 5-10 or even more steaks, hides depending on your skill, miscellaneous ingredients, etc This is all a bit of me thinking out loud to say". This sounds like a great idea, It sounds like you already plan to do what most people are going to suggest.
Awesome that you may have plans for more complex needs/hunting. Would you stuff be compatible with JPSawyers and famine? So far the recipes mod is working flawlessly. It would be great if your time ever permitted for a foraging mod. One of the things that always bugged me was that Sunny teaches you to make healing powder and then there isnt really that many plants around. If I want the I have to survive out in the desert and not fast travel back to safety every time I get in trouble I wish they had populated the map with more usable plants and such. I know its a wasteland and I stand by what I said about FAMINE being useful in the sense its nice to not find huge amounts of caps and ammo everywhere like the area has already been at least partially picked over by scavers. There I go ranting now lol.
" In my ideal world, eating jerky and, you know, your shoes, with my mod, would raise your "Fullness" value while not moving your calories or nutrition values up at all, solely for truly dramatic or roleplay heavy moments like DUST or the Sierra Madre or Lonesome Road, different eggs would be meaningfully different, and it isn't possible to die of starvation over a group of four corpses, REGARDLESS of how badly RNG screws you, because even with my mod as it is you can kill four lakelurks, four 300 pound giant masses of fish and egg and get 0 (zero) food from it."
Man I get you especially about any decent sized animal that drops nothing lol.
Also what is the soap from brahmin meat for? I didnt understand what the soap recipes are for, could be me being blind as a bat.
Thanks for taking the time to give a detailed reply, its great to hear your thought process.
I use famine in my own playthrough and plan on adapting Jsawyer's mod into my modlist over the next year or so, so yes. Compatibility in this regard is important to me.
Abraxo is an ingredient for dynamite, but honestly it's one of the earlier recipes I envisioned when the mod was less concrete and I just left it in for a fight club reference. But in the next update I'll be using abraxo for certain medicinal recipes.
The foraging mod is actually something that's been at the forefront of my mind for a while, but I'm more limited by my own skills and creativity in that regard than anything else. My current conception is probably, you press a button, roll a survival check that takes an in-game hour, and get an edible item for it. We'll see if my amateur scripting can handle that.
Well I imagine it takes a lot of time to script stuff thats out of my wheelhouse.
Look forward to seeing what you make next.
I think the specific logic I used was that the player would be taking the cap off the dynamite, pushing the fuse through to make it shorter and then gluing it back into place, and vice versa to make it longer. So I made both wonderglue for simplicity.
I will probably increase the requirement significantly to like 6 or even 10 belts after reviewing their crafting requirements again, but I don't think there are actually that many belts throughout the game that aren't already in food-laden areas. I might also just change it from belts to Rawhide Hats, my original problem with this was how many cowboy hats there are in the game.
Thanks for the feedback
Additionally, In the future I might include a recipe pack for dust that includes Thorazine, etc.