would be great if this mod could be made completely compatible with Dark Path of The Necromancer you know for that extra effect and actually make that mod make you feel like a true necromancer more
Hello! Thank you for all your mods and hard work, keep it up!
I enconter an issue with this mod and the Toggle conjuration mod. All 'daedric' conjurations can still be toggled but the necromancy ones have their duration set back to default. As you now don't want your zombies to follow you in town indefinitly, it is not that bad but it is still an unwanted result imo.
I've tried both Toggle conjuration and Eternal Undead (removed/hidden from Nexus) today. If loaded as below conjuration times are extended as expected, but only the Mage's Guild reacts to undead summons. NecromancyBounty.esp NecromancyBounty_BountyAddon.esp NecromancyVendorTweak.esp aEternalUndead.esp OR LongerConjuration.esp
If loading aEternalUndead.esp OR LongerConjuration.esp before NecromancyBounty.esp everything works as intended on the bounties, but no extended summon durations.
In lore summoning the dead/undead is not considered necromancy. It's "summoning" a creature from a plane of oblivion Only resurrecting a corpse directly is considered necromancy. So basically none of the conjuration spells are necromancy other than the reanimate spell lorewise.Still a very cool mod though
I have my lore dump copy and paste message for this :)
Summoning Undead is Necromancy in-lore. And summoning undead from Oblivion is still necromancy as well. Furthermore, in Skyrim, Summoning undead was stated to fall under the Mages Guild ban.
Phinis: If you require assistance with summoning techniques, please let me know. If you would, please also contain your summons to the College grounds. The locals do not need to be agitated further by Atronachs roaming their town. The summoning of undead is even less advisable outside of the College. Player: Summoning undead isn't frowned upon?" Phinis : By Sheor, no. Those archaic policies died out with the Mages Guild, and were never enforced here. Necromancy, as any other type of magic, is a tool to be used. Of course, non-mages may not see it that way, so we don't go around flaunting it." Source
If that isn't enough evidence for you, I complied more sources below: There is no definitive source on what the summons actually are soul-wise. Most people make the claim that we are either summoning Daedra or Souls from the Soul Carin that inhabit zombies and skeletons, but in-lore that is still counted as Necromancy.
Now, it is true, of course, that conjuration is a common tool of sorcery, and we sorcerers often resort to summoning aid from Oblivion when a problem is best solved by judicious application of vicious brute force. It is also true that summoning Daedric spirits to possess and animate corpses, or calling up the souls of the dead for information or other services—in short, necromancy—is a subset of the art of conjuration, albeit inherently distasteful and degrading.
Even souls summoned from the Soul Carin were once living and still possess autonomy. See the convo with a Wraith from the Soul Carin below.
Cheated! Betrayed! Deceived! You promised! But you lied! Forever! You have taken my life, and given me NOTHING! Eternal happiness? Life everlasting? No! Eternal nightmare! Death everlasting! Nothing now. Nothing forever more. Where is this land of joy and plenty you promised? No days, no nights. Tired without rest. Weary without hope. Time without end. And this is the paradise you promised?
When we summon an undead from the Soul Carin we are controlling a dead person's soul. That is the definition of necromancy.
Necromancy, as you likely know, is the manipulation of souls, soul energies, or corpses of the dead.
Source: Unhallowed Legions
Lastly, summons like Skeletons aren't just Daedra that look like skeletons, they are fully undead. In-game, they both are treated as undead (Turn Undead works on them) and are referred to as undead by NPCs in-game through texts:
They (necromancers) are never apart from undead protectors, either summoned or reanimated.
Just saw another author has been inspired by this mod to create Daedra Are Actually Bad - their solution to add consequences without it being illegal was to add infamy if you summon Daedra near "good" npcs. Would this be something that could work here as an alternative to the bounty system? Because you're right, although Necromancy is banned by the Mages Guild, it's not illegal, and yet it is very much still frowned upon by the general populace.
This is great, except all the early game and low level conjuration enemies are undead. Need some alternatives to level conjuring. Any solutions on that front? I'll track this mod for now, see where it goes :3
There are actually more non-undead summons than undead summons at near every skill level in oblivion. Furthermore, a plugin is offered under the optional files to switch the starting spell to summon scamp. Don't think much more thant that is needed tbh.
Great mod! One question: I notice that, when you raise your bounty with necromancy, the guards don't immediately attempt to arrest you (until the bounty hits 500, of course). Would it be possible for the mod to trigger the arrest sequence automatically?
That was by design, but of course that could changed.
On your end, if you're not that experienced with the Construction Kit, the easiest way to do it would be through Game Settings Loader. Create a new ini with the lines below (or just add them to a existing one): [GameSettings] iCrimeGoldAttackMin = 100Then guards will confront you after you summon any undead.
Oh, apologies -- I meant to ask, is there a way to trigger the arrest sequence without lowering iCrimeGoldAttackMin across the board? As a comparison, guards will immediately attempt to arrest you if you steal an object in front of them, even if the value of that object doesn't hit the global arrest threshold.
I just want to clarify that the suggested Game Settings Loader "fix" does not do this properly.
Lowering that setting lowers the threshold for you to essentially become Wanted, meaning that guards will attempt arrest you even if they were not the one who witnessed it (ie you get away and go to another city).
What needs to happen for this to work like any other crime in the game, is that the guard who witnesses it will essentially alert themselves, triggering an arrest. That way, if you escape, you retain a bounty but will not be Wanted by guards in general. In that case, after you get away, since you wont be past the Wanted threshold, they should only arrest you on speaking to them, not on sight.
With the current suggestion, you would get arrested on sight by any guard anywhere you go, even after escaping the first guard. And by default, without the suggested fix, they don't even attempt an arrest until you commit further crimes, giving you a bit of a "ghost" bounty in the meantime. Neither of those are correct behavior.
It would be cool to have something similar for summoning daedra, it always bothered me that we can summon daedroths and flame atronach's during the oblivion crisis and nobody bats an eye.
There is less of a precedent for that in the lore, but I do agree it's weird that no reacts. Rather than being expelled/getting a bounty I think it would make more sense to have summoning a Daedra affect either nearby NPCs disposition towards you or mess with your Fame/Infamy. Maybe that's something I'll tackle in the future. (Though, feel free to take that Idea and run with it you like it)
That being said, if all you're interested in doing is adding the effects from my mod to daedra spells, that would be easy to do in xEdit if you wanted to do it yourself. This mod just adds a new magic effect with a script attached to it to all summon undead spells in the game.
To extend its functionality, just copy over the new effect to the Daedra summon spells in a new esp. If you choose to make it, as long as your file still requires mine as a dependency, feel free to upload it to nexus and earn 100% of the DP :)
I always thought it followed along the lines of Demonology in World of Warcraft. The summon spell is used to create a temporary contract with said Daedra it's why it has a limited duration. Also Daedric princes are not always friendly towards eachother, and I might be wrong but the Oblivion Crisis centers solely around Mehrunes Dagon.
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JumpI enconter an issue with this mod and the Toggle conjuration mod. All 'daedric' conjurations can still be toggled but the necromancy ones have their duration set back to default.
As you now don't want your zombies to follow you in town indefinitly, it is not that bad but it is still an unwanted result imo.
If loaded as below conjuration times are extended as expected, but only the Mage's Guild reacts to undead summons.
NecromancyBounty.esp
NecromancyBounty_BountyAddon.esp
NecromancyVendorTweak.esp
aEternalUndead.esp OR LongerConjuration.esp
If loading aEternalUndead.esp OR LongerConjuration.esp before NecromancyBounty.esp everything works as intended on the bounties, but no extended summon durations.
if u dont use that its fine
Summoning Undead is Necromancy in-lore. And summoning undead from Oblivion is still necromancy as well.
Furthermore, in Skyrim, Summoning undead was stated to fall under the Mages Guild ban.
There is no definitive source on what the summons actually are soul-wise. Most people make the claim that we are either summoning Daedra or Souls from the Soul Carin that inhabit zombies and skeletons, but in-lore that is still counted as Necromancy.
Even souls summoned from the Soul Carin were once living and still possess autonomy. See the convo with a Wraith from the Soul Carin below.
Lastly, summons like Skeletons aren't just Daedra that look like skeletons, they are fully undead. In-game, they both are treated as undead (Turn Undead works on them) and are referred to as undead by NPCs in-game through texts:
On your end, if you're not that experienced with the Construction Kit, the easiest way to do it would be through Game Settings Loader. Create a new ini with the lines below (or just add them to a existing one):
[GameSettings]Then guards will confront you after you summon any undead.iCrimeGoldAttackMin = 100
Lowering that setting lowers the threshold for you to essentially become Wanted, meaning that guards will attempt arrest you even if they were not the one who witnessed it (ie you get away and go to another city).
What needs to happen for this to work like any other crime in the game, is that the guard who witnesses it will essentially alert themselves, triggering an arrest. That way, if you escape, you retain a bounty but will not be Wanted by guards in general. In that case, after you get away, since you wont be past the Wanted threshold, they should only arrest you on speaking to them, not on sight.
With the current suggestion, you would get arrested on sight by any guard anywhere you go, even after escaping the first guard. And by default, without the suggested fix, they don't even attempt an arrest until you commit further crimes, giving you a bit of a "ghost" bounty in the meantime. Neither of those are correct behavior.
That being said, if all you're interested in doing is adding the effects from my mod to daedra spells, that would be easy to do in xEdit if you wanted to do it yourself. This mod just adds a new magic effect with a script attached to it to all summon undead spells in the game.
To extend its functionality, just copy over the new effect to the Daedra summon spells in a new esp. If you choose to make it, as long as your file still requires mine as a dependency, feel free to upload it to nexus and earn 100% of the DP :)
Also Daedric princes are not always friendly towards eachother, and I might be wrong but the Oblivion Crisis centers solely around Mehrunes Dagon.
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Jump