Note max levels I have listed previously were incorrect. I used a reddit post for a reference, but after testing it myself, I saw that I got different results. The current list is correct.
1.0x (vanilla) -- max level 43 1.5x slower -- max level 38 2.0x slower -- max level 33 2.2x slower -- max level 31 2.5x slower -- max level 29 3.25x slower -- max level 25 4.0x slower -- max level 23 1.5x faster -- max level 55
The Difficulty Remastered mod was supposed to increase health of all enemies, however, it only increased health of NPCs, but not creature enemies. I made a fixed variation of this mod for myself, so might as well share it with others. The mod I made for myself increases the damage done by everyone by 2.0x and health of enemies by 2.5x. To make it, I used More Damage mod and then slapped fixed version of Difficulty Remastered on top of it. Note that this mod will override other mods which mess with creature data, just like those mods would override this mod if they are placed after my mod, which would make you lose creature health bonus + creature damage bonus. Download deluxe version if you have deluxe version of the game, otherwise, download standard version.
I felt that the 1,5x slower is still pretty slow. I did the math in a spreadsheet and tested with a character and noticed it requires over the double XP to level a character in the first few levels.
May i ask for another version? 1.15x slower perhaps? The values i think would give that effect would be
Unfortunately, my laptop died, so I'm no longer am able to do any modding. That said, i have included all the info you need to make your own variation in the "Description" section of my mod, so you could very easily make one yourself.
As for your testing, it seems that your results are drastically different than what I got.
I did my testing via a script, and I posted the results in the "Description" section.
For Vanilla:
To reach level 2, you need experience equivalent of increasing a skill from 1 to 29 To reach level 3, you need experience equivalent of increasing a skill from 1 to 41 To reach level 4, you need experience equivalent of increasing a skill from 1 to 49 To reach level 5, you need experience equivalent of increasing a skill from 1 to 56 To reach level 6, you need experience equivalent of increasing a skill from 1 to 62
And here are the ones from 1.5x mod:
To reach level 2, you need experience equivalent of increasing a skill from 1 to 32 To reach level 3, you need experience equivalent of increasing a skill from 1 to 45 To reach level 4, you need experience equivalent of increasing a skill from 1 to 55 To reach level 5, you need experience equivalent of increasing a skill from 1 to 63 To reach level 6, you need experience equivalent of increasing a skill from 1 to 71
The numbers I got don't seem to show that you need double the experience to achieve level ups. Are you sure you don't have any other mods interfering with your testing and could you perhaps post your own results?
The formulas i could verify leveling from 1 to 5 are the following:
Char XP earned by Skill levelup = (Player level -1) ^ 1,5 (the 1,5x mod turns this into 1,45) Char XP required to character levelup = 1940 + (60 * (Player level -1) ^ 1,75 (the 1,5x mod turns 1940 in 2200 and 60 into 70)
So, in Vanilla, - to get to level 2 one needs 2000 Char XP. I was able to do that with 29 skill level ups. - With the 1,5x mod one needs 2270 and since the SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent at 1,45 grants less char XP per level, the same 29 skill level ups grant me only 1771 Char XP. - So the mod increases the XP required by 13% but also lowers XP granted by 11% just in the first level
- Finally, to get to level 5 one needs a cumulative 9111 Char XP in Vanilla, what i was able to reach with 105 level ups that granted me 9229 cumulative XP - With the 1,5x mod one needs 10376 XP in total, but now the same 105 skill level ups only grant me 7758 XP. So 14% more XP required and 16% less granted. - The mod slowly raises the ratio of XP required but lowers the ratio of the XP granted a bit faster.
The problem is the SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent as your level progresses its going to grant less and less XP. Thats why i asked for a version that doesnt lower this parameter.
Well as I mentioned before, I'm not able to do any mods at this point due to lack of device. And honestly, I believe you are focusing a bit too much on the numbers rather than actually playing and experiencing it yourself.
When I was playing, I was using 2.2x mod and the leveling up was still feeling very fast, and from reading the comments, I don't think my experience is unique.
Which of these would feel closest to the original game, a good middle ground? Not looking to completely bulldoze the game nor put myself into hard mode. Just want levels to be more evenly spread across the game.
In the description, I marked 2.2x speed as recommended, which as you might guess, is what I recommend. I also suggested some other mods like Skill Leveling XP Curvature which impact how fast your skills level up. So these are my recommendations.
It's not really in the spirit of the original, but another mod I would suggest for you to look at is Balanced NPC Cap, which I think drastically improves the immersion, as it makes it so that the enemies won't always scale with you. For me at least, when I reach high enough level, I want to feel like my character is a badass, however, without this mod, the enemies will always keep up with you, making you feel like you don't get more powerful, as enemies are always just as difficulty to defeat.
That's true for "Simple" version of the Balanced NPC Cap mod, however, if you download "Diverse" version, both mods will have noticeable impact on the game.
Any other mods you recommend for a more vanilla playthough without the Remaster easymode feel? Removing the starting map markers sounds like a good one.
I don't really have more besides what I recommended in the description.
I have to note though, that most of the mods out there that make the game harder, also mess up the game in some other aspect. Only way to prevent that is to make modifications which target everyone, rather than just the player.
Couple quick examples of what I mean are: - if you use mods which lower player health, your restoration spells and potions will become too strong - using difficulty slider will make your followers/summons disproportionally stronger than you, as they are not affected by it. So ideally, you would leave the slider on the default "Adept" difficulty
Not sure if you looked at it, but I also included a mod as an optional file which increases the difficulty, but tries to not mess other things up.
After playing about 40 hours worth of 2.2x I must say its way too slow. Were talking entire Knights of the Nine, fighters guild and mages guild quests along with killing plenty of random mobs and delving into many Aelied dungeons and I have yet to break level 10. Why you are recommending this pace is beyond me here. Sure, there is a lot to do, but sub 10 after doing tons of meat and potatoes seems rough.
Are you using some other mods which mess with skill leveling speeds?
You can look at this mod as "what level will you reach if you max all skills to 100" kind of thing. So if you reach 100 with all the skills while using 2.2x version, you will be level 31. The fact that you are sub level 10, means you are around ~12% there on the way to reaching 100 with all your skills (because leveling isn't linear). And I think that that number is well below average for a player who completed Knights, fighters and mages guild + bunch of other quests.
As I mentioned before, my guess is that you are using some other mod which interacts with your skill leveling.
Using me as an example, I was playing with 2.2x version, while using this mod to reduce skill increasement speed, and I'm level 13 after completing ~15 dungeons, and I didn't even get to arcane university yet, even though that's the only major faction which I delved into. I'm guessing I would be well into 20s after catching up with how much game you explored.
Sorry but: "lol what?" I am using 2.2 and I still am rocketing forward. I am level 14, blade, block, resto, heavy armor have all passed 75. Alchemy is not a major skill and it like 50, just too easy to level. This mod is a vast improvement. Also, by 10 you can have a pretty fleshed out character. your "main stat" at least should be 100 by 10ish.
You should be training 5 times a level every level too. Some stuff should just naturally go up, speechcraft/mercantile, athletics and acrobat. Restoration levels fast as hell, I have a mod to lower how fast it levels and its STILL like 85.
Sorry, but if you did all that and you are only 10, that is a you issue, not this mod.
I'm having a hard time believing that you're only level 10 when having completed two major factions, a DLC, and plenty of exploring like you stated. I'm using a combination of this mods 2.2x version paired with Ascensions skill level modifiers (57% major and 43% minor) and I'm level 13, having just finished the mages guild, with ample exploring to match my ADHD, and maybe 3-4 quests done from the fighters guild. No arena, no DLC, and only progressed to Cloud Ruler Temple in main questline. Unless you are using the 100's or 200's of percent skill level requirements from a skill level mod, that's just not possible.
About the same experience as smbrooke above. The original complaint sounds over-exaggerated. I 2.2x felt still too fast so I ended up using 2x slower skills on top of the curvature mod to slow down progress even more since it's a 100% run.
Trying to understand how this mod works. From what I gathered, no distinction is made between major and minor skills when it comes to the XP they give for the level up ?
So Destruction 99 to 100 as a minor skill gives the same XP as Blades 99 to 100 as a major skill ?
It's just that destruction itself increases at a slower rate ?
Just tried out LEVEL UP PACING OVERHAUL along with ASCENSION REMASTERED and they are both working great. Enemies are now a challenge including mudcrabs ha ha and i am also still a viable threat to them instead of feeling like an ant fighting a Minotaur. Am also no longer leveling like SPEED RACER switching gears. Am half way done with the Vilverin dungeon and have yet to level up while my skills are still improving.
Thanks for all the work and research to make this most excellent mod a reality. Cheers!
XP from skill level increase e.g. 5 to 6 = 5^SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent (not 6^SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent !)
Correct, on level up skills give Player Level XP gained = SkillLevel^SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent So when the SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent property is lowered it lowers the total amount of XP that can be gained. For the basic warrior class that's 831.700 xp total when leveling all skills to 100.
XP total for level 1 = sum(XP from skill level increases) - PlayerLevelUpXPFactor (using PlayerLevelUpXPFactor was not expected here !)
XP total for level 2 and above = sum(XP from skill level increases)
XP required for level 2 = PlayerLevelUpBaseLevelXP
XP required for level e.g. 3 = PlayerLevelUpBaseLevelXP + PlayerLevelUpXPFactor * 2^PlayerLevelUpXPExponent
Do you mean skill levels or player levels?
Player level up XP = PlayerLevelUpBaseLevelXP+(PlayerLevelUpXPFactor*(PlayerLevel^1.75)) So for example at level 1: 2000 = 1940+(60*(1^1.75)) = 1940+(60*(1)) = 1940+(60) Level 2: 2142 = 1940+(60*(2^1.75)) = 1940+(60*(3.36)) = 1940+(201.81)
The game keeps track of your total xp, so if you would edit your level to level 3 with 0 xp you'd first have to get the 2000+2142 xp from level 1 and level 2 before the bar towards level 3 stars moving.
I am not sure those are the exact formulas. I tested and Player XP from skill level increase doesn't seem to be the SUM(Skill a^1,5;Skill b^1,5) where SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent is known to be 1,5 in vanilla.
Using this formula above i got 1659 xp leveling my char from level 1 to 2, with the following skills levels (Magic specialization)
Alchemy 40 - Major/Specialization Alteration 15 - Minor/Specialization Conjuration 11 - Minor/Specialization Destruction 35 - Major/Specialization Illusion 31 - Major/Specialization Mysticism 31 - Major/Specialization Restoration 13 - Minor/Specialization Security 11 - Minor Mercantile 25 - Major Acrobatics 11 - Minor Sneak 16 - Minor Speechcraft 27 - Major Light Armor 11 - Minor Marksman 5 - Minor Blade 5 - Minor Armorer 5 - Minor Athletics 9 - Minor Blunt 5 - Minor Block 5 - Minor Hand to Hand 26 - Major Heavy Armor 5 - Minor
but according to the Player level formula i should have needed 2000 xp (1940+(60*(1^1.75))
Perhaps there is another factor at play. Could it be the fact that the skill is Major/Spec/Minor? I have the impression that Resporation which is a Minor skill from my specialization has moved the Player level bar from more 10 to 11, than Security (a regular minor skill) from 10 to 11.
EDIT: I think i figure it out. Its cumulative. So in order to level a skill from A to B you need to accumulate the Skill XP from 1 to A and then from 1 to B. And then the Skill XP to go from A to B should be the cumulative XP to get to be minus the cumulative XP to get to A.
Thank you for this... only found it because someone linked it to me, I was only getting mods that make skill increases faster or slower with google. There are too many "bigger elf boobs" mods that bury all the useful mods. What we needed was what this mod does: more SKILL increases to get a level, NOT slower skill increases.... it already takes forever to level up blade/blunt/markmsan past 50 (really slow for blade abd blunt if you use a 2 hander. Original devs have an enormous 1h bias based on the unique items plus 1h damage vs 2h)
I have a couple questions regarding the max levels stated in the description;
1) Are these estimations or hard stops? I ask because I imagine that character race and class selections would have an impact on potential max levels still?
2) Are the max levels described the absolute maximum, accounting for having all skills both major and minor at 100? Or is this assuming that only major skills are leveled?
I ask because I'm curious what multiplier would be best for ensuring that I can reach or at least be near level 30 while having maxed major skills. For example, I wouldn't want to get to level 20 or 25 only to see that the only way to reach 30 is to completely max out several minor skills.
1) I made a script to test each mod variation out, and the numbers I provided are the max level the character achieved after maxing out all the skills to 100, so if I were you, I would treat it as hard caps.
2) In remastered, there is no difference between minor and major skills other than minor skills being slower to level, all the numbers I provided assume you level everything to 100.
As for your goals, I would guess that 2.0x speed would suit you, mainly because I think it's hard to not increase minor skills unintentionally in remastered, which would then contribute to you leveling up.
The minor skill increase impacting player level was one of my main motivators to make this mod, as without it, I would continue leveling up fast, even when trying my best not to gain skills. I would guess that you will be in similar spot, even though you assume that your leveling up will come predominantly from your major skills, you will get a number of levels from minor skills as well, no matter you want it or not.
For a little extra elaboration (and to add on to your last point about minor skills) I'm looking to try out a combination of mods.
First, I'm using "Skill Leveling XP Curvature Increased" to make it so that higher level skills level slower (and slow down/fix the wonky acceleration on magic skills), then adjusting the skill level mults and making minor skills especially slower.
In theory, I hope to achieve a combination there where there effectively becomes a sort of "soft cap" on minor skills. Eventually, they become slow enough as to only very occasionally level on their own and instead rely more on training to level, giving more overall control to leveling.
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Jump1.0x (vanilla) -- max level 43
1.5x slower -- max level 38
2.0x slower -- max level 33
2.2x slower -- max level 31
2.5x slower -- max level 29
3.25x slower -- max level 25
4.0x slower -- max level 23
1.5x faster -- max level 55
Download deluxe version if you have deluxe version of the game, otherwise, download standard version.
May i ask for another version? 1.15x slower perhaps? The values i think would give that effect would be
1.15x slower:
SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent=1.50000
PlayerLevelUpBaseLevelXP=2000.000000
PlayerLevelUpXPFactor=70.000000
As for your testing, it seems that your results are drastically different than what I got.
I did my testing via a script, and I posted the results in the "Description" section.
For Vanilla:
And here are the ones from 1.5x mod:
The numbers I got don't seem to show that you need double the experience to achieve level ups. Are you sure you don't have any other mods interfering with your testing and could you perhaps post your own results?
Char XP earned by Skill levelup = (Player level -1) ^ 1,5 (the 1,5x mod turns this into 1,45)
Char XP required to character levelup = 1940 + (60 * (Player level -1) ^ 1,75 (the 1,5x mod turns 1940 in 2200 and 60 into 70)
So, in Vanilla,
- to get to level 2 one needs 2000 Char XP. I was able to do that with 29 skill level ups.
- With the 1,5x mod one needs 2270 and since the SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent at 1,45 grants less char XP per level, the same 29 skill level ups grant me only 1771 Char XP.
- So the mod increases the XP required by 13% but also lowers XP granted by 11% just in the first level
- Finally, to get to level 5 one needs a cumulative 9111 Char XP in Vanilla, what i was able to reach with 105 level ups that granted me 9229 cumulative XP
- With the 1,5x mod one needs 10376 XP in total, but now the same 105 skill level ups only grant me 7758 XP. So 14% more XP required and 16% less granted.
- The mod slowly raises the ratio of XP required but lowers the ratio of the XP granted a bit faster.
The problem is the SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent as your level progresses its going to grant less and less XP. Thats why i asked for a version that doesnt lower this parameter.
When I was playing, I was using 2.2x mod and the leveling up was still feeling very fast, and from reading the comments, I don't think my experience is unique.
It's not really in the spirit of the original, but another mod I would suggest for you to look at is Balanced NPC Cap, which I think drastically improves the immersion, as it makes it so that the enemies won't always scale with you. For me at least, when I reach high enough level, I want to feel like my character is a badass, however, without this mod, the enemies will always keep up with you, making you feel like you don't get more powerful, as enemies are always just as difficulty to defeat.
I have to note though, that most of the mods out there that make the game harder, also mess up the game in some other aspect. Only way to prevent that is to make modifications which target everyone, rather than just the player.
Couple quick examples of what I mean are:
- if you use mods which lower player health, your restoration spells and potions will become too strong
- using difficulty slider will make your followers/summons disproportionally stronger than you, as they are not affected by it. So ideally, you would leave the slider on the default "Adept" difficulty
Not sure if you looked at it, but I also included a mod as an optional file which increases the difficulty, but tries to not mess other things up.
You can look at this mod as "what level will you reach if you max all skills to 100" kind of thing. So if you reach 100 with all the skills while using 2.2x version, you will be level 31. The fact that you are sub level 10, means you are around ~12% there on the way to reaching 100 with all your skills (because leveling isn't linear). And I think that that number is well below average for a player who completed Knights, fighters and mages guild + bunch of other quests.
As I mentioned before, my guess is that you are using some other mod which interacts with your skill leveling.
Using me as an example, I was playing with 2.2x version, while using this mod to reduce skill increasement speed, and I'm level 13 after completing ~15 dungeons, and I didn't even get to arcane university yet, even though that's the only major faction which I delved into. I'm guessing I would be well into 20s after catching up with how much game you explored.
You should be training 5 times a level every level too. Some stuff should just naturally go up, speechcraft/mercantile, athletics and acrobat. Restoration levels fast as hell, I have a mod to lower how fast it levels and its STILL like 85.
Sorry, but if you did all that and you are only 10, that is a you issue, not this mod.
your mod
https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivionremastered/mods/1414
and this? https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivionremastered/mods/1321
Together, I'm an OG Oblivion player so I don't want the training wheels super fast leveling of the remaster. Thanks!
From what I gathered, no distinction is made between major and minor skills when it comes to the XP they give for the level up ?
So Destruction 99 to 100 as a minor skill gives the same XP as Blades 99 to 100 as a major skill ?
It's just that destruction itself increases at a slower rate ?
Thanks for all the work and research to make this most excellent mod a reality. Cheers!
XP from skill level increase e.g. 5 to 6 = 5^SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent (not 6^SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent !)
XP total for level 1 = sum(XP from skill level increases) - PlayerLevelUpXPFactor (using PlayerLevelUpXPFactor was not expected here !)
XP total for level 2 and above = sum(XP from skill level increases)
XP required for level 2 = PlayerLevelUpBaseLevelXP
XP required for level e.g. 3 = PlayerLevelUpBaseLevelXP + PlayerLevelUpXPFactor * 2^PlayerLevelUpXPExponent
Player Level XP gained = SkillLevel^SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent
So when the SkillLevelUpGrantedXPExponent property is lowered it lowers the total amount of XP that can be gained. For the basic warrior class that's 831.700 xp total when leveling all skills to 100.Player level up XP = PlayerLevelUpBaseLevelXP+(PlayerLevelUpXPFactor*(PlayerLevel^1.75))
So for example at level 1:2000 = 1940+(60*(1^1.75)) = 1940+(60*(1)) = 1940+(60)
Level 2:2142 = 1940+(60*(2^1.75)) = 1940+(60*(3.36)) = 1940+(201.81)
The game keeps track of your total xp, so if you would edit your level to level 3 with 0 xp you'd first have to get the 2000+2142 xp from level 1 and level 2 before the bar towards level 3 stars moving.
Yes, I noticed you need to use advskill before using advlevel to see the bar moving.
Using this formula above i got 1659 xp leveling my char from level 1 to 2, with the following skills levels (Magic specialization)
Alchemy 40 - Major/Specialization
Alteration 15 - Minor/Specialization
Conjuration 11 - Minor/Specialization
Destruction 35 - Major/Specialization
Illusion 31 - Major/Specialization
Mysticism 31 - Major/Specialization
Restoration 13 - Minor/Specialization
Security 11 - Minor
Mercantile 25 - Major
Acrobatics 11 - Minor
Sneak 16 - Minor
Speechcraft 27 - Major
Light Armor 11 - Minor
Marksman 5 - Minor
Blade 5 - Minor
Armorer 5 - Minor
Athletics 9 - Minor
Blunt 5 - Minor
Block 5 - Minor
Hand to Hand 26 - Major
Heavy Armor 5 - Minor
but according to the Player level formula i should have needed 2000 xp (1940+(60*(1^1.75))
Perhaps there is another factor at play. Could it be the fact that the skill is Major/Spec/Minor? I have the impression that Resporation which is a Minor skill from my specialization has moved the Player level bar from more 10 to 11, than Security (a regular minor skill) from 10 to 11.
EDIT: I think i figure it out. Its cumulative. So in order to level a skill from A to B you need to accumulate the Skill XP from 1 to A and then from 1 to B. And then the Skill XP to go from A to B should be the cumulative XP to get to be minus the cumulative XP to get to A.
Oh reading your stickies, you might like my mod here: Oblivion Remaster Rebalance at Oblivion Remastered Nexus - Mods and community It increase damage of weapons, spells, creatures etc and increases creature health, gives creatures resists, gives npcs more blade/blunt/marksman skill etc.
1) Are these estimations or hard stops? I ask because I imagine that character race and class selections would have an impact on potential max levels still?
2) Are the max levels described the absolute maximum, accounting for having all skills both major and minor at 100? Or is this assuming that only major skills are leveled?
I ask because I'm curious what multiplier would be best for ensuring that I can reach or at least be near level 30 while having maxed major skills. For example, I wouldn't want to get to level 20 or 25 only to see that the only way to reach 30 is to completely max out several minor skills.
2) In remastered, there is no difference between minor and major skills other than minor skills being slower to level, all the numbers I provided assume you level everything to 100.
As for your goals, I would guess that 2.0x speed would suit you, mainly because I think it's hard to not increase minor skills unintentionally in remastered, which would then contribute to you leveling up.
The minor skill increase impacting player level was one of my main motivators to make this mod, as without it, I would continue leveling up fast, even when trying my best not to gain skills. I would guess that you will be in similar spot, even though you assume that your leveling up will come predominantly from your major skills, you will get a number of levels from minor skills as well, no matter you want it or not.
For a little extra elaboration (and to add on to your last point about minor skills) I'm looking to try out a combination of mods.
First, I'm using "Skill Leveling XP Curvature Increased" to make it so that higher level skills level slower (and slow down/fix the wonky acceleration on magic skills), then adjusting the skill level mults and making minor skills especially slower.
In theory, I hope to achieve a combination there where there effectively becomes a sort of "soft cap" on minor skills. Eventually, they become slow enough as to only very occasionally level on their own and instead rely more on training to level, giving more overall control to leveling.
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