OR, make us work for it by making it something we have to buy from a trainer whose prices increase exponentially (and maybe MAYBE add an option to insta 100 stack that for people who want to try and do the impossible without a full 100 playthroughs)
I do just want to add, there is a balancing issue as players become more OP they have less things to actually spend their silver on. A custom trainer (or two or three) who lowers but doesn't outright eliminate some of the debuffs would be nice diversion of cashflow. You could stick them at the end of dungeons so players have to work for it regardless.
Currently, I have no plans to remove or allow it to be removed. Let me try to explain why.
There is one major problem with this mod: Allowing players to get every skill and item very effectively removes the Challenge of Outward, which I consider to be a core piece of Outward. I will not release anything I consider to be unbalanced, and I don't want to make Outward worse by removing the Challenge. So a solution is required for me to release this mod.
My solution for this problem was to double down on the "New Game+" aspect of this mod: Increase the damage you take and decrease the damage you deal (inspired from Dark Souls) In addition, this pushes players to only use it when they've "completed" the game. The only reason it's a debuff instead of directly affecting the enemies is to avoid the issues with coop when players are at different NG+ levels
The only way I'd remove or allow the debuff to be removed would be if a better solution existed. Currently, I can't see anything as effective that I can code.
Fair enough, At first, the numbers are just right, the problem comes in with compounding stacks. As is, I'm fairly certain that stretched thin 100 is just a game that's not possible, and that doesn't make stretched thin 99 challenging. Outward's combat is a game of preparation and execution. As is, this system threatens to break that dynamic.
At a certain point, I think stretched thin outpaces the player's theoretical capabilities, This issue only comes in when you consider skill trees with little to no crossover. The archer classes don't stack damage with the mage classes, etc, and since players cant get infinitely get better and better gear, and cant/ won't want to infinitely boost the same skills, eventually they'll be doomed to be both one shot and unable to kill any monsters. It takes ~6-10 arrows to kill most single enemies as an archer build. Since players can only equip 15 arrows at a time, archer builds often rely on traps etc to get by in multi-enemy situations and have a backup melee if necessary. Now while ng+1-2 will see players using closer to 10-13 arrows per enemy, beyond that enemies will take 15+arrows, requiring players to stop and "prepare" in battle. At that point, it isnt necessarily an increased challenge as it is a different game. At the point a maxed out archer character with maxed out gear cant kill most enemies without opening their inventory to equip a fresh set of 15 arrows, that's the point archers are no longer viable.
Even if most players wont keep playing to get to that point, just knowing that they'll eventually hit that wall just feels bad. Its not an issue of increasing challenge, there's a clear (though uncertain) tipping point where the game is impossible if you aren't actively making use of some exploit. Certain playstyles are just going to be unviable.
To resolve this issue, spread thin should, at ng+2 or so, begin targeting other areas of the game rather than continually target the same spot. For example, instead of just increasing the difficulty of combat, it could increase the difficulty of survival by increasing hunger/thirst rate, likelihood of getting diseases/illnesses, reducing the number of ingredients players get from the wild and increasing the price of food/potions from most sources, increasing the weight of cooking pots/alchemy stations, increasing the weight of silver/gold, reducing the "charges" in a water skin, etc. All of those could be applied to a certain point before other areas are targeted like time management, increasing the base danger of sleeping in the wilds and the prices for renting a room. Then throw in combat difficulty again by buffing enemies instead of further nerfing the player: increase enemy movement and attack animation speed, etc.
In this way, the game is getting harder from ALL angles, not just one, and done correctly it truly increases the game's challenge. This is of course all just talk. I'm ignorant of what each of these would demand from a coding side of things, and i'm not at stretched thin 100 so maybe it IS possible with any build when you get to that point and I just don't know.
I'm certain that I've made the debuff appear stronger than it actually is. I'm going to remove the image that shows up to 100 stacks since it gives the wrong idea of how it behaves. It's behavior is to punish anyone who isn't prepared and to partially affect those that are well-prepared.
Here's an example bow build that counters the fully stacked debuff with preparation: Tsar Bow does 50 phys damage Forged Arrows +15 phys Enchanted Bow for +10% phys Discipline for +30% phys (amplified) Phys Attack Up from food +20% phys Calygrey Bone Cage sleep effect +10% phys Brawns Skill +25% phys Kirouac's Breakthrough Skill +15% phys Alchemical Experiment Skill +15% all
The Tsar Bow would then do 146 damage (50+15)*225%. With 100 stacks, it would do 81 damage (50+15)*(225%-100%) That's about -45% total damage
Not to mention that arrows can be quick slotted and fully reequipped at any point (assuming you've prepared enough extra arrows) The only part of the debuff that I believe is too powerful is the resistances because it could lead to dying to damage that was impossible to avoid. My intent is to readdress that when I have more information.
Here's my responses to your suggested changes:
Hunger/Thirst going up slightly may work, but there's a tipping point where you're unable to buy/find enough items to address hunger/thirst.
Decreasing natural drop rates makes preparation harder, which will push people away from it.
Diseases/illnesses is already impossible to happen with very minimal preparation, so this wouldn't even be a difficulty increase. And if you started to give diseases randomly, then the player will start to hate the mod for punishing them for "no reason"
Increasing prices has the potential to be effective, but then players will just stop using vendors, which people do already (I know I've not bought anything from a vendor in a very long time)
Increasing the weight of items to make the game more challenging can work once. But if it stacks up, which NG+ has to, eventually preparation is impossible.
The only one I would consider doing is Hunger/Thirst, but that would have to cap out at a certain value, like the current debuff does. Also, it would be countered by very minimal preparation: Plant Tent So I don't see it as an effective alternative.
Thanks for the well explained response, I guess there was just a big disconnect in perception vs reality. ^_^'
Well... is it possible to add enemies to group spawns as a one-off difficulty spike? Like, have most single enemies that roam about now spawn in pairs, most bandits have another member or two, dungeons have a few extra enemies, etc? Just trying to think of a means for increasing new play-through novelty. Increasing enemy attack animation speed could also be an interesting choice if possible. It'd throw off a players learned dodge/block reflex, giving a narrower response time. Probably wouldnt want to go over ~15% though...
I would change the mechanics for the stretched thin debuff a bit, personally. Here's my suggestion, if possible: Same debuff effects at current, but each NG+ adds one more additional stack, however you can spend some amount of silver, like 10000 or so, to remove one stack. Uncleared stacks carry over to subsequent NG+s. This gives you something you have to manage to keep people from just running to the trainers they want that playthrough and NG+'ing repeatedly to get all the skills.
So for example, if you cleared all the stacks each time: NG+: +1 stack, so 10000 to remove NG+2: +2 stacks, so 20000 to remove NG+3: +3 stacks, so 30000 to remove To be stack-free at NG+3, you would have had to spend 60000 total silver.
But, if you don't spend the silver to clear the stacks: NG+: +1 stack, so 1 stack total NG+2: +2 stacks, so 3 stacks total NG+3: +3 stacks, so 6 stacks total To be stack-free, you still have to spend 60000 total, but you're sitting at 6 stacks if you don't.
Starting to think this should be more like reddit so I can respond to everyone individually, but this'll do.
@happyinmyhead It's kind of possible, but requires a lot of overhauling on how characters are managed in a map. Currently, every possible character is baked into a map, so you can't spawn in a trog anywhere. You'd have to copy an existing trog, then manually save and load its current state so that it remains consistent. I'm currently trying to find ways to extract out a character and then load it into another scene. Once I've got that figured out, I'll see how I can implement it into NG+.
@DeathZxZ I have 3 concerns with your design: This would add a "tax" to each NG+ run that a Loot Hoarder could easily pay, but others couldn't. A "Rich get Richer" problem. Depending on the placement of the NPC to do this trade, a game could become ridiculously easy (if you paid off all the stacks) or become nigh-impossible (if you had the money but couldn't reach the NPC) I don't think there's an issue with players getting every skill.
To go a bit more in depth: The "Rich get Richer": If a player reaches the point where they realize that they need to farm silver, you run the risk of them "optimizing the fun away" and stop playing. Alternatively, if a player has too much silver (Loot Hoarder), then they will be able to keep 0 stacks. This would remove a large portion of the Challenge of a game all about Challenge.
NPC Placement: When NG+ is triggered and the debuffs are given, this version would be vastly more punishing. If the NPC is placed at the start, then you have Rich Players making the game a cake walk, And Poor Players being unable to pay off the "tax" and potentially being unable to complete the game, if they can't reach the NPC again. Alternatively, if the NPC is too far into the game, then players will have to struggle through sections of the game to reach the NPC. This might have a strange effect where a normal bandit is harder than some Bosses.
The only way to prevent most of these issues is to put the NPC at the "end" or only spawn him when something has been completed. That would prevent players from being able to "leave a faction" by using NG+, which I would prefer to keep. If placed properly and triggered appropriately, then the NPC shouldn't be triggered before the player has "finished" their run. BUT, then they'd be highly incentivized to go run around to farm extremely easy dungeons for money while they're not debuffed.
Potentially a Non-Issue: If players got every skill tree (excluding mods), they'd have NG+3 with zero or one set of factions skills This would be vastly weaker than a "true" NG+3 character because they'd be lacking the skills from 2-3 factions Not to mention the passives from skill trees aren't always useful, there's a limited amount of quick slots, and skill synergies are very limited.
+1 for this idea as well. Although how the stretched thin debuff works and how it fits within the balance of the game is a different discussion, I think simply having the option to disable it would be good as the mod can then appeal both to players who want a challenge or to people who just want to start over more powerful then before. At that point it's up to the player to decide.
Or you know, you could not impose your views on how a game should be played on other people and just let them play the game the way they want to play it. Like others have said, you mod your rules, but imo your reasoning is bogus.
I would love to see this as well. I would actually prefer something more akin to another commenter's suggestion wherein the player has to do something in-game to reduce the weakening effect. I know it doesn't fit with your vision of the game, but giving people options is never a bad thing. After all, if someone really wanted they could just use this mod as well as debug cheats to trivialize the Stretched Thin debuff, so forcing it on the user isn't even really that impactful.
Would it be possible to add an optional version that does the sort of Dark Souls route? I know you said it might cause issues if 2 people from different NG+ levels interact, but if 2 friends who are wanting to play back to back playthroughs together want to, a Dark Souls-like NG+ that just buffs enemies rather than nerfs the player is ideal. And as it's optional, you just need to add a warning that it would make the game non ideal for people on different NG+ levels.
Long story short a potentially really good mod is completely ruined because the creator is gatekeeping how they think the game should be played.
As I've stated in many gaming communities and many different contexts: If you want a challenge, you can handicap yourself. It is always an option. ALWAYS. On the other hand, if you want NOT to be handicapped, that is frequently NOT an option. This is a truism that extends across the entirety of gaming and all the way into real life. This mentality that difficulty has to be built in or imposed upon you from an outside source is utterly ridiculous. The number of speed-runners going through games without fighting, running about with their characters stark naked and unarmed, should make that quite clear enough. If you really want challenge then you can choose it at any time. Choosing to impose challenge on others just because you want it that way... that is completely needless. It is just a dick-move. Nothing more.
So long story short... this is just a waste. A red herring. A trap. You tricked us, creator. You built a fatal flaw into this mod that completely defeats the entire purpose of it in the first place. Well done. What a waste of everyone's time.
Regarding removing the Stretched Thin debuff - what happens if you use this mod to start a new game plus, and then just remove the mod? All the bringing forward of skills and recipes and items pretty much all happens at the point the new game is created, and thereafter it's all just in the save. Presumably without the mod, there is no "Stretched Thin" debuff any more...
Edit: Yes, it seems to work. Started a new game plus, saved, disabled the mod, reloaded, and the debuff was gone, but my character was otherwise the same.
(Note that I didn't start with any mana, but my health and stamina were where they would have been if I hadn't sacrificed anything to the leyline. Presumably that's normal for this mod - it was the same whether the mod was loaded or not.)
Edit 2: Another thing that requires the mod to be enabled is purchasing the other skill of pairs of mutually-exclusive skills from trainers. With the mod disabled, the game won't let you purchase the other skill, like in the base game. It's easy enough to enable the mod just to make those purchases though, and then disable it again.
This is what I did as well. I don't want to unlock every skill, I like one build at a time but I also like to be get everything save "class" stuff (doing all the quests for example). I prefer to do the same things, but with varied approaches (only thing that kept me playing cyberpunk lol) and I hated the "every build at once" in games like borderlands even (as in going being able to get every/most skills for any char). This work around is great for those that impose their own restrictions as needed (say those quest passives are a bit OP so you only use a basic iron weapon for the challenge), or just be OP for a bit if you just want to relax (I have two very young kids, I don't exactly get a lot of time to play so anything that could be very "tedious" isn't for me). That being said, save for PvP games, I really don't care how anyone plays their games. Be it homebrew D&D or using a console/OP mods in something Morrowind. I prefer a challenge but eh, each to their own. Mostly because it doesn't affect me at all, and if I like the game I'd want others to like it as well so there is a good shot at more games like it regardless of what they have to do to enjoy it. Or because I'm an introvert so I've never cared much about others as long as it didn't impact me negatively. Toss up tbh.
All that aside though: Thank you Kekasi (Edit: Wait, is that the creators name or is it @Saeculum?) for the mod!!! Once I found out there was no NG+, the thought of farming 4 times per build just so I can enjoy my theory crafting made me almost quit the game. Now, instead of that, I bought both DLCs. Highly underrated mod!
My dude, How does making the game the way you want it to be played making the game "Worse"? When someone across the globe mods a game to the point where you "ruin" the core aspects of the game, does that really effect you?
Sounds like youre just gate keeping for extremely petty reasons. Keep your "NG+" mod, in fact, dont make any more mods if you have this minds set. Mods break any game that they're imputed in so why would you wanna "make games worse" by creating mods that changes the game from the original?
Hello I'm writing this because I have a problem with this mod. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to use this mod or not, but I'm sure it's a good idea to use this mod. Would you have an idea or solution please?
i used this mod awhile ago before this stretched thin was added. i want to love the mod... i really do...but the stretched thin debuff is a HARD pass for me. if it were optional, i'd endorse it...
i personally don't enjoy it when cool new feature mods change balance or specific gameplay elements when it isn't either A. wanted or B. not needed to work the rest of the mod.
especially when the changes are not optional if you want to use the mod.
i just want a simple new game plus mod for starting over with the balance remaining the same.
please reconsider your stance on making the feature mandatory.
gonna have to hard agree here this mod seems like it would be fantastic but there needs to be config options for stretched thin, tweaking it's values or turning it off entirely would go a long way
Yeah The game its self doesn't build of things like levelling damage. So in normal gameplay there is no way to make up for that nerf in game. Definitely should be optional.
1. Install New game + mod. 2. Create new Character 3. Save and Quit. 4. Remove this mod file and directory from plug in folder. 5. Remove mod config saved file "NewGamePlus.NewGameExtension.xml" from Outward/BepinEx/config/sinai-dev SideLoader/SaveData/"your character code"/Custom/ 6. Run and Load created new Character. 7. The debuff disappears and you can play the game normally.
Does this mod still work as is or would I need to do a work around to get it working? Really do like the idea of getting to keep my skills in another play through.
59 comments
Let me try to explain why.
There is one major problem with this mod:
Allowing players to get every skill and item very effectively removes the Challenge of Outward, which I consider to be a core piece of Outward.
I will not release anything I consider to be unbalanced, and I don't want to make Outward worse by removing the Challenge.
So a solution is required for me to release this mod.
My solution for this problem was to double down on the "New Game+" aspect of this mod:
Increase the damage you take and decrease the damage you deal (inspired from Dark Souls)
In addition, this pushes players to only use it when they've "completed" the game.
The only reason it's a debuff instead of directly affecting the enemies is to avoid the issues with coop when players are at different NG+ levels
The only way I'd remove or allow the debuff to be removed would be if a better solution existed.
Currently, I can't see anything as effective that I can code.
At first, the numbers are just right, the problem comes in with compounding stacks. As is, I'm fairly certain that stretched thin 100 is just a game that's not possible, and that doesn't make stretched thin 99 challenging. Outward's combat is a game of preparation and execution. As is, this system threatens to break that dynamic.
At a certain point, I think stretched thin outpaces the player's theoretical capabilities,
This issue only comes in when you consider skill trees with little to no crossover. The archer classes don't stack damage with the mage classes, etc, and since players cant get infinitely get better and better gear, and cant/ won't want to infinitely boost the same skills, eventually they'll be doomed to be both one shot and unable to kill any monsters.
It takes ~6-10 arrows to kill most single enemies as an archer build. Since players can only equip 15 arrows at a time, archer builds often rely on traps etc to get by in multi-enemy situations and have a backup melee if necessary. Now while ng+1-2 will see players using closer to 10-13 arrows per enemy, beyond that enemies will take 15+arrows, requiring players to stop and "prepare" in battle. At that point, it isnt necessarily an increased challenge as it is a different game. At the point a maxed out archer character with maxed out gear cant kill most enemies without opening their inventory to equip a fresh set of 15 arrows, that's the point archers are no longer viable.
Even if most players wont keep playing to get to that point, just knowing that they'll eventually hit that wall just feels bad. Its not an issue of increasing challenge, there's a clear (though uncertain) tipping point where the game is impossible if you aren't actively making use of some exploit. Certain playstyles are just going to be unviable.
To resolve this issue, spread thin should, at ng+2 or so, begin targeting other areas of the game rather than continually target the same spot. For example, instead of just increasing the difficulty of combat, it could increase the difficulty of survival by increasing hunger/thirst rate, likelihood of getting diseases/illnesses, reducing the number of ingredients players get from the wild and increasing the price of food/potions from most sources, increasing the weight of cooking pots/alchemy stations, increasing the weight of silver/gold, reducing the "charges" in a water skin, etc.
All of those could be applied to a certain point before other areas are targeted like time management, increasing the base danger of sleeping in the wilds and the prices for renting a room.
Then throw in combat difficulty again by buffing enemies instead of further nerfing the player: increase enemy movement and attack animation speed, etc.
In this way, the game is getting harder from ALL angles, not just one, and done correctly it truly increases the game's challenge.
This is of course all just talk. I'm ignorant of what each of these would demand from a coding side of things, and i'm not at stretched thin 100 so maybe it IS possible with any build when you get to that point and I just don't know.
I'm going to remove the image that shows up to 100 stacks since it gives the wrong idea of how it behaves.
It's behavior is to punish anyone who isn't prepared and to partially affect those that are well-prepared.
Here's an example bow build that counters the fully stacked debuff with preparation:
Tsar Bow does 50 phys damage
Forged Arrows +15 phys
Enchanted Bow for +10% phys
Discipline for +30% phys (amplified)
Phys Attack Up from food +20% phys
Calygrey Bone Cage sleep effect +10% phys
Brawns Skill +25% phys
Kirouac's Breakthrough Skill +15% phys
Alchemical Experiment Skill +15% all
The Tsar Bow would then do 146 damage (50+15)*225%.
With 100 stacks, it would do 81 damage (50+15)*(225%-100%)
That's about -45% total damage
Not to mention that arrows can be quick slotted and fully reequipped at any point (assuming you've prepared enough extra arrows)
The only part of the debuff that I believe is too powerful is the resistances because it could lead to dying to damage that was impossible to avoid.
My intent is to readdress that when I have more information.
Here's my responses to your suggested changes:
The only one I would consider doing is Hunger/Thirst, but that would have to cap out at a certain value, like the current debuff does.
Also, it would be countered by very minimal preparation: Plant Tent
So I don't see it as an effective alternative.
Well... is it possible to add enemies to group spawns as a one-off difficulty spike? Like, have most single enemies that roam about now spawn in pairs, most bandits have another member or two, dungeons have a few extra enemies, etc? Just trying to think of a means for increasing new play-through novelty.
Increasing enemy attack animation speed could also be an interesting choice if possible. It'd throw off a players learned dodge/block reflex, giving a narrower response time. Probably wouldnt want to go over ~15% though...
Same debuff effects at current, but each NG+ adds one more additional stack, however you can spend some amount of silver, like 10000 or so, to remove one stack. Uncleared stacks carry over to subsequent NG+s. This gives you something you have to manage to keep people from just running to the trainers they want that playthrough and NG+'ing repeatedly to get all the skills.
So for example, if you cleared all the stacks each time:
NG+: +1 stack, so 10000 to remove
NG+2: +2 stacks, so 20000 to remove
NG+3: +3 stacks, so 30000 to remove
To be stack-free at NG+3, you would have had to spend 60000 total silver.
But, if you don't spend the silver to clear the stacks:
NG+: +1 stack, so 1 stack total
NG+2: +2 stacks, so 3 stacks total
NG+3: +3 stacks, so 6 stacks total
To be stack-free, you still have to spend 60000 total, but you're sitting at 6 stacks if you don't.
Thanks for the mod, I really enjoy it either way!
@happyinmyhead
It's kind of possible, but requires a lot of overhauling on how characters are managed in a map.
Currently, every possible character is baked into a map, so you can't spawn in a trog anywhere.
You'd have to copy an existing trog, then manually save and load its current state so that it remains consistent.
I'm currently trying to find ways to extract out a character and then load it into another scene.
Once I've got that figured out, I'll see how I can implement it into NG+.
@DeathZxZ
I have 3 concerns with your design:
This would add a "tax" to each NG+ run that a Loot Hoarder could easily pay, but others couldn't. A "Rich get Richer" problem.
Depending on the placement of the NPC to do this trade, a game could become ridiculously easy (if you paid off all the stacks) or become nigh-impossible (if you had the money but couldn't reach the NPC)
I don't think there's an issue with players getting every skill.
To go a bit more in depth:
The "Rich get Richer":
If a player reaches the point where they realize that they need to farm silver,
you run the risk of them "optimizing the fun away" and stop playing.
Alternatively, if a player has too much silver (Loot Hoarder), then they will be able to keep 0 stacks.
This would remove a large portion of the Challenge of a game all about Challenge.
NPC Placement:
When NG+ is triggered and the debuffs are given, this version would be vastly more punishing.
If the NPC is placed at the start, then you have Rich Players making the game a cake walk,
And Poor Players being unable to pay off the "tax" and potentially being unable to complete the game, if they can't reach the NPC again.
Alternatively, if the NPC is too far into the game, then players will have to struggle through sections of the game to reach the NPC.
This might have a strange effect where a normal bandit is harder than some Bosses.
The only way to prevent most of these issues is to put the NPC at the "end" or only spawn him when something has been completed.
That would prevent players from being able to "leave a faction" by using NG+, which I would prefer to keep.
If placed properly and triggered appropriately, then the NPC shouldn't be triggered before the player has "finished" their run.
BUT, then they'd be highly incentivized to go run around to farm extremely easy dungeons for money while they're not debuffed.
Potentially a Non-Issue:
If players got every skill tree (excluding mods), they'd have NG+3 with zero or one set of factions skills
This would be vastly weaker than a "true" NG+3 character because they'd be lacking the skills from 2-3 factions
Not to mention the passives from skill trees aren't always useful, there's a limited amount of quick slots, and skill synergies are very limited.
I know it doesn't fit with your vision of the game, but giving people options is never a bad thing. After all, if someone really wanted they could just use this mod as well as debug cheats to trivialize the Stretched Thin debuff, so forcing it on the user isn't even really that impactful.
As I've stated in many gaming communities and many different contexts: If you want a challenge, you can handicap yourself. It is always an option. ALWAYS. On the other hand, if you want NOT to be handicapped, that is frequently NOT an option. This is a truism that extends across the entirety of gaming and all the way into real life.
This mentality that difficulty has to be built in or imposed upon you from an outside source is utterly ridiculous. The number of speed-runners going through games without fighting, running about with their characters stark naked and unarmed, should make that quite clear enough. If you really want challenge then you can choose it at any time.
Choosing to impose challenge on others just because you want it that way... that is completely needless. It is just a dick-move. Nothing more.
So long story short... this is just a waste. A red herring. A trap.
You tricked us, creator. You built a fatal flaw into this mod that completely defeats the entire purpose of it in the first place. Well done.
What a waste of everyone's time.
Edit: Yes, it seems to work. Started a new game plus, saved, disabled the mod, reloaded, and the debuff was gone, but my character was otherwise the same.
(Note that I didn't start with any mana, but my health and stamina were where they would have been if I hadn't sacrificed anything to the leyline. Presumably that's normal for this mod - it was the same whether the mod was loaded or not.)
Edit 2: Another thing that requires the mod to be enabled is purchasing the other skill of pairs of mutually-exclusive skills from trainers. With the mod disabled, the game won't let you purchase the other skill, like in the base game. It's easy enough to enable the mod just to make those purchases though, and then disable it again.
All that aside though: Thank you Kekasi (Edit: Wait, is that the creators name or is it @Saeculum?) for the mod!!! Once I found out there was no NG+, the thought of farming 4 times per build just so I can enjoy my theory crafting made me almost quit the game. Now, instead of that, I bought both DLCs. Highly underrated mod!
When someone across the globe mods a game to the point where you "ruin" the core aspects of the game, does that really effect you?
Sounds like youre just gate keeping for extremely petty reasons. Keep your "NG+" mod, in fact, dont make any more mods if you have this minds set. Mods break any game that they're imputed in so why would you wanna "make games worse" by creating mods that changes the game from the original?
So just dont make anymore mods please.
I'm grateful for the mod author's work nevertheless the thought of farming 4 different times is absurd.
https://outward.thunderstore.io/package/potatiums/NewGamePlus/
This one is not updated or maintained.
I'm assuming it doesn't work with Definitive Edition based on previous comments?
i want to love the mod... i really do...but the stretched thin debuff is a HARD pass for me.
if it were optional, i'd endorse it...
i personally don't enjoy it when cool new feature mods change balance or specific gameplay elements when it isn't either A. wanted or B. not needed to work the rest of the mod.
especially when the changes are not optional if you want to use the mod.
i just want a simple new game plus mod for starting over with the balance remaining the same.
please reconsider your stance on making the feature mandatory.
2. Create new Character
3. Save and Quit.
4. Remove this mod file and directory from plug in folder.
5. Remove mod config saved file "NewGamePlus.NewGameExtension.xml" from Outward/BepinEx/config/sinai-dev SideLoader/SaveData/"your character code"/Custom/
6. Run and Load created new Character.
7. The debuff disappears and you can play the game normally.