Rational opposes Passionate, and Stoic opposes Clever.
Stoic is the option that barely speaks at all, very nonchalant. Clever is the joker, smart, clever guy that cannot stop talking.
Rational is about having a dispassionate view of things, very analytical and cold-hearted. Passionate is about devotion, fiery temper, principles, etc.
That's how those things are portrayed in the game.
I've included alternative downloads if you also want to use my Player-Exclusive Skill Checks and/or No Forced Rests. These versions combines their changes with the ones from Binary Dispositions, so you only have to install one file!
So, do I need both, say, NFR and BOP mods, or just BOP and NFR file here? And if both does the load order matter (same for Reduced Reputation Gain Patch)?
Also, if NFR is included here, does it include Shrines too? If not, is it compatible with Shrine Worship No Rest?
EDIT: so decided to check myself almost immediately, they sure combine the changes, so one only needs BOP + NFR (I guess same thing with Player-Exclusive Skill Checks), and compatible with Shrine Worship No Rest (I loaded it after BOP).
While they won't override each other, using these mods together will likely make gaining Disposition points pretty unforgiving. This mod adds new values that it uses to reduce Disposition scores, while leaving the existing values for use when increase an a score unchanged. As such the amount a Disposition is reduced by is tuned with the default values in mind. The Reduced Reputation Gain mod lowers all existing values for Disposition gain.
So as an example of what will happen, every time you gain 2 points from RRG, BOD will reduce the opposed Disposition by 4.
Hi, sorry for late reply (good thing we have Kvellen XD)
I've uploaded an optional compatibility patch which should adjust the values to match RRG :D (Place it below the BOD Main download and RRG in the mod manager load order)
I know this an old mod, but it seems like the only solution for GamePass players since the Unity Console doesn't work for us. My problem is I used the regular console to add Cruel.. didn't realize the precautions of this, and played on.. No there is no way of removing Cruel from my char. However, this mod might be the solution
Mind telling me what you called the 3 ChangeStrengthGameData objects for negative effect? With the name of these I guess I can use them with regular console to fix my Cruel disposition.
yay! I found the answer myself by looking into your files. MajorNegative, AverageNegative and MinorNegative. Using this mod combined with the regular ingame console I m managed to get rid of my Cruel disposition! This is the only current way, afaik, for Windows Store/GamePass users, to reduce dispositions.
Perhaps a silly question, but is there any chance you could make a version where the dispositions counter each other, but not entirely?
For example, if a response were to increase your "benevolent" by 2, make it so it will decrease your "cruel" by only 1 (instead of by 2). That way you can gain conflicting dispositions, but they tend to temper one another. This makes a bit more sense to me then them being completely binary (or like default, where they don't counter one another at all).
Would altering the "DispositionValue"s in the "binary_dispositions" game data bundle provide this result?
Would altering the "DispositionValue"s in the "binary_dispositions" game data bundle provide this result?
Yep, exactly! Since you got the solution on your end I'll hold off uploading anything new for now, but I'll probably make it an optional download in the future.
Ah, it seems that most dialogue only moves the counters by one.
I don't suppose there is a way to introduce a coin flip to the "DispositionValue" step, that way something that increases "Benevolent" by one only has a 50% chance of decreasing "Cruel" by one? (I don't believe it will accept decimal values, so making it a matter of chance seems like the best solution. Maybe that's not possible either though).
I'd argue that it should be Stoic (treat everything seriously) vs. Clever (generally joke responses) and Rational (listen to your brain) vs. Passionate (listen to your heart). Somewhat confirmed by Darcozzis favoring Clever and disfavoring Stoic, Berath favoring Rational and disfavoring Passionate, etc.
That's a valid point and several other users have said the same thing, there is an optional download available which enables those pairs (use it together with one of the main files).
Somewhat confirmed by Darcozzis favoring Clever and disfavoring Stoic, Berath favoring Rational and disfavoring Passionate, etc.
This is true, but also note that Darcozzi favors Passionate and Berath favors Stoic, reinforcing the case for Stoic vs. Passionate.
I like the Clever vs. Stoic and Passionate vs. Rational pairs, but I want to let Passionate vs. Stoic take precedence since they are direct antitheses. I really appreciate the input nevertheless, it's great to know what everyone feels about the pairs!
Can I deactivate "Stoic vs. Clever and Rational vs. Passionate" midgame without consequences? I mean, all future checks would work as in the original mod after that?
Great mod btw! It's the way the game should have been without a doubt. Thank you for your time!
Unfortunately that one doesn't work anymore for me, but Tarlonniel walked me through customizing the Aloth, new and improved.
Now I'm just finding that the mod order won't stay put in the mod manager. It just reverts to the original order when you start the game. What will happen if I have the Aloth romance mods in the list on top of your mod?
Is Agreeable Aloth bugged? Oh no, I didn't know about that...
If Aloth Romance mods are above this mod in the load order, the romance mods will be overwritten (same with most mods that edit conversations). If you instead put the romance mods below this mod, you will get the new romance dialogue. The only downside is that the conversations that the romance mods have edited will have vanilla disposition behavior.
I believe that the Clever disposition should be opposed to Stoic, and Passionate should be opposed to Rational. The explanation, as I see it, is quite simple:
Clever is for when you don't take stuff very seriously and/or choose to face stuff in a lighthearted and candid manner. Stoic is for when you DO take stuff seriously and do not want to joke about it and say only what is necessary, akin to Batman or something.
Rational and Passionate are even easier to understand, with Passionate being synonymous to Sentimental. So, Rational means you act with your head, Passionate means you act with your heart.
But that's just my suggestion, and either way this is a great mod.
I prefer Stoic vs Passionate over Stoic vs Clever since all subclasses that favors Stoic also disfavors Passionate, but I absolutely agree with your reasoning. omgFIREBALLS on the Obsidian forums also suggested the same thing and pointed out that the overall the system would be more satisfying that way than with Clever vs. Rational (which I agree with).
I think I'll make an optional download with Stoic vs. Clever and Passionate vs. Rational, but I'd like to keep Stoic vs Passionate in the main version to accomodate for subclass dispositions.
Anyhow, massive thanks for your take on the pairings. I never felt sure about them, so I really appreciate the feedback.
IMHO They should have named Rational and Clever to; Contemplative / Decisive, or Thoughtful / Witty, or Deep-thinking / Quick-thinking, or simply Deep / Quick
Something like that ... The icons imply it, I think.
How did i not see this mod before, i already put like 25hrs into my character haha
I really like the idea behind this mod. Characters'' behavior towards the player are determined by your disposition ranks, this mod makes you think twice before selecting a response!
49 comments
Rational opposes Passionate, and Stoic opposes Clever.
Stoic is the option that barely speaks at all, very nonchalant. Clever is the joker, smart, clever guy that cannot stop talking.
Rational is about having a dispassionate view of things, very analytical and cold-hearted. Passionate is about devotion, fiery temper, principles, etc.
That's how those things are portrayed in the game.
Also, if NFR is included here, does it include Shrines too? If not, is it compatible with Shrine Worship No Rest?
EDIT: so decided to check myself almost immediately, they sure combine the changes, so one only needs BOP + NFR (I guess same thing with Player-Exclusive Skill Checks), and compatible with Shrine Worship No Rest (I loaded it after BOP).
This mod adds new values that it uses to reduce Disposition scores, while leaving the existing values for use when increase an a score unchanged. As such the amount a Disposition is reduced by is tuned with the default values in mind.
The Reduced Reputation Gain mod lowers all existing values for Disposition gain.
So as an example of what will happen, every time you gain 2 points from RRG, BOD will reduce the opposed Disposition by 4.
I've uploaded an optional compatibility patch which should adjust the values to match RRG :D
(Place it below the BOD Main download and RRG in the mod manager load order)
My problem is I used the regular console to add Cruel.. didn't realize the precautions of this, and played on..
No there is no way of removing Cruel from my char.
However, this mod might be the solution
Mind telling me what you called the 3 ChangeStrengthGameData objects for negative effect? With the name of these I guess I can use them with regular console to fix my Cruel disposition.
MajorNegative, AverageNegative and MinorNegative.
Using this mod combined with the regular ingame console I m managed to get rid of my Cruel disposition! This is the only current way, afaik, for Windows Store/GamePass users, to reduce dispositions.
For example, if a response were to increase your "benevolent" by 2, make it so it will decrease your "cruel" by only 1 (instead of by 2). That way you can gain conflicting dispositions, but they tend to temper one another. This makes a bit more sense to me then them being completely binary (or like default, where they don't counter one another at all).
Would altering the "DispositionValue"s in the "binary_dispositions" game data bundle provide this result?
Yep, exactly! Since you got the solution on your end I'll hold off uploading anything new for now, but I'll probably make it an optional download in the future.
I don't suppose there is a way to introduce a coin flip to the "DispositionValue" step, that way something that increases "Benevolent" by one only has a 50% chance of decreasing "Cruel" by one?
(I don't believe it will accept decimal values, so making it a matter of chance seems like the best solution. Maybe that's not possible either though).
It would be possible to utilize the Roll conditional to set a 50% chance for the negative value to trigger if you want to try that out.
This is true, but also note that Darcozzi favors Passionate and Berath favors Stoic, reinforcing the case for Stoic vs. Passionate.
I like the Clever vs. Stoic and Passionate vs. Rational pairs, but I want to let Passionate vs. Stoic take precedence since they are direct antitheses. I really appreciate the input nevertheless, it's great to know what everyone feels about the pairs!
I mean, all future checks would work as in the original mod after that?
Great mod btw! It's the way the game should have been without a doubt. Thank you for your time!
Now I'm just finding that the mod order won't stay put in the mod manager. It just reverts to the original order when you start the game. What will happen if I have the Aloth romance mods in the list on top of your mod?
If Aloth Romance mods are above this mod in the load order, the romance mods will be overwritten (same with most mods that edit conversations). If you instead put the romance mods below this mod, you will get the new romance dialogue. The only downside is that the conversations that the romance mods have edited will have vanilla disposition behavior.
The explanation, as I see it, is quite simple:
Clever is for when you don't take stuff very seriously and/or choose to face stuff in a lighthearted and candid manner.
Stoic is for when you DO take stuff seriously and do not want to joke about it and say only what is necessary, akin to Batman or something.
Rational and Passionate are even easier to understand, with Passionate being synonymous to Sentimental. So, Rational means you act with your head, Passionate means you act with your heart.
But that's just my suggestion, and either way this is a great mod.
I think I'll make an optional download with Stoic vs. Clever and Passionate vs. Rational, but I'd like to keep Stoic vs Passionate in the main version to accomodate for subclass dispositions.
Anyhow, massive thanks for your take on the pairings. I never felt sure about them, so I really appreciate the feedback.
Contemplative / Decisive, or
Thoughtful / Witty, or
Deep-thinking / Quick-thinking, or simply
Deep / Quick
Something like that ... The icons imply it, I think.
I really like the idea behind this mod. Characters'' behavior towards the player are determined by your disposition ranks, this mod makes you think twice before selecting a response!
EDIT: Endorsed!