In case of anyone still asking,CAPITAL WHITERUN EXPANSION has an old bug where it crash by itself when opening the minimap.
Just grab the fixes https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/136689 - Capital Whiterun Expansion Lite - Map CTD Fix (also shld work for big one too) https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/63355 - Rob's Bug Fixes - Capital Whiterun Expansion
I posted the nexus links above,i tested your mod with capital whiterun and didnt crash at all,but if i disabled rob fixes + minimap ctd ,i would crash despite having this mod or not
I know for sure that mod can cause by itself some nasty crashes because i used to play with it in the past and i deleted half of my mods till i found out that it was actually capital whiterun alone. The fixes from above should fix a good amount of possible crashes. There are also older reddit threads with this problem that might help in case this fixes didnt helped.
But personally i never crashed again in whiterun with CapitalWExp after those ones
Sorry to bother but just need to verify: This would only show up in crash logs because it'd always be used by the game right? Same as occlusion.esp from dyndolod? Just looking at solving these crashes haha
It could show if you placed it at the bottom of the load order, it should be at the very top (possibly even before USSEP and the like)
Other than that it should not show, even if you have a crash related to it (occlusion conflicts are notoriously hard to find the cause because they don't typically appear in the log). Just to be clear, it shouldn't cause any crash, it may do that only when paired with some mods (Capital Whiterun being a notorious offender, MAYBE eFPS but I haven't had any report about it). Typically a crash due to occlusion occurs when opening the map, just in case
Okay that could explain it. I literally only just saw the ussep and master occlusion load order after typing that comment.
But it's just that I've had it for so long and it's caused no issues. Still though I use synthesis and am learning loot so things working properly always means they can now work properly enough to crash haha
This mod changes very little to the world, it only adds a single giant occlusion plane per cell, that covers the whole cell, very far below the ground. It's a safety net, basically, so that anything below that never gets rendered by the game. If there are crashes, it may be due to you reaching a theoretical maximum amount of occlusion in a cell (this is just conjecture, as we have no way of proving it, but it seems likely), or having occlusion planes that intersect one another (which shouldn't be possible at -25000 Z position below the ground)
Dyndolod occlusion is different as I understand it, it does not interfere normally!
Occlusion crashes are repeatable 100% of the time if you have one, doing the same thing you were will crash everytime! :) So the crashes must not be occlusion related! If you have a crash log I can have a look and tell you if it's occlusion or not
I think my crash logs are npc related. I had made a post on nexus forums and one of the people who replied mentioned how master occlusion was referenced hundreds of times
I told him that it's just referenced because it should always be used since it's netting over everything but still wanted to confirm! I will link you the thread
Thanks for the info, that's definitely something I hypothesised, as there is sometimes no reason for placed occlusion to cause crashing (nothing intersecting or anything, even just a single plane up in the air... weird stuff) This is an area that I wish was fully explored, as it would definitely help people experiencing occlusion-related crashes!
That is true, it's indeed easy to identify a crash is occlusion related, but debugging why is a nightmare...
And eFPS, while it can give some FPS back, does indeed walk the fine line between just enough and too many occlusion panes! It's a nightmare to patch for, because as you said, any extra occlusion could potentially cause crashes...
The solution to all of this could be occlusion baked in the meshes themselves (I think I recall reading that it is possible, too!) but that's also a gargantuan task...
They don't do the same at all! eFPS adds occlusion everywhere else (buildings, walls etc), mine adds a horizontal field at -25000, to ensure anything below that is never rendered. This would ensure that when some mods don't disable things properly, and just move things way below the ground, you don't render that stuff.
Just an extra question around this, how did the folks over at Synthesis assist with this development?
Also there's Rob's Bug Fixes - Our xEdit Scripts which has its own Synthesis Patcher, and I'm just wondering, would your mod be better than this? And would it be a good idea to remove the z floor syntehsis pather in place of your mod?
Update JUST read the comment in the other thread in relation to this, my apologies. They both work together like beans & cheese :'3
As for synthesis folks... well I used synthesis to create this mod ^^ made a patcher on my end (unreleased) to create and place occlusion panes wherever there are objects in cells, basically.
I tested with 2 main ESM plugins and still have CTDs in Whiterun.
I using Capital Whiterun Expansion and Whiterun has walls Redone and Whiterun Metropolis too. Can they touching some necessary navmeshes and broke the game? I did not have CTDs in Whiterun's interiors with huge modding, btw. Only after 5-10 mins at exterior's streets it happens.
Nope. If you are using the second plugin and still crash inside whiterun, it's unrelated to this mod (there is no occlusion at all in whiterun with that version... none at all, thus can't cause crashes)
This actually seems to have improved FPS in Solitude, using Enhanced Solitude and a couple of other Solitude Mods. Less so outside at the docks, but definitively in Solitude proper. Thanks!!
I have isolated this mod as culprit for a reproducable CTD in Falkreuth:
With BOS MO enabled: 1. Load savegame in Falkreuth Inn 2. Step outside the Inn 3. Try to open the worldmap - CTD!
Reproduced 8 times in a row. Crashlogger reports an occlusion-checking func at the top of the callstack. Every single time.
Disable BOS MO. No other changes: 1. Load savegame in Falkreuth Inn 2. Step outside the Inn. 3. Try to open the worldmap: No crash. Map displays.
Reproduced 3 times in a row.
No, i don't care if this possibly is a conflict with some other mod. All i need to know for my personal purposes is, if a mod is troublesome. Any mod that causes CTDs in combination with another mod, i simply don't install. So this post is not a support request: I have already decided to drop this mod from my LO, and am simply reporting the incident, in case other users have the same problem.
And yes, BOS MO was placed before USSEP as recommended.
Damn how hostile and rude, dude, not my problem if you have mod conflicts and don't know how to resolve them other than removing stuff and flaming at the author.
Clearly you have some messed up occlusion in falkreath, regardless of this mod. Also, adding or removing mods mid playthrough is bad, everyone knows that.
Just want to add my two cents after seeing such rudeness from a few people here..
I use this in a 2100+ plugin modlist, including Open Cities and different overhauls for each city, town, and village. Zero CTD related to this mod, or outside of Skyrim just being Skyrim. Thank you, J3w3ls for creating this mod!
Did you even bother to start a new game and test it? Did you bother to check if there were record conflicts with any other batches or dynamic ones such as Wyre Bash and Synthesis such as the Z-Floor Patcher which would obviously conflict with this mod.
No it does not conflict with Z floor patcher: it moves anything that's below -30000 up to -30000. This mod adds a field at -25000 (which is above -30000)
Did you even read that there is a version SPECIFICALLY for capital whiterun? One that DOESN'T ADD ANY occlusion to whiterun city? Aka if it crashes, it can't be this mod. Provided of course you installed the right one. Which clearly you didn't.
213 comments
Just grab the fixes
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/136689 - Capital Whiterun Expansion Lite - Map CTD Fix (also shld work for big one too)
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/63355 - Rob's Bug Fixes - Capital Whiterun Expansion
and should fix most issues
I know for sure that mod can cause by itself some nasty crashes because i used to play with it in the past and i deleted half of my mods till i found out that it was actually capital whiterun alone. The fixes from above should fix a good amount of possible crashes. There are also older reddit threads with this problem that might help in case this fixes didnt helped.
But personally i never crashed again in whiterun with CapitalWExp after those ones
Btw thanks for the mod helped me with some fps
Other than that it should not show, even if you have a crash related to it (occlusion conflicts are notoriously hard to find the cause because they don't typically appear in the log).
Just to be clear, it shouldn't cause any crash, it may do that only when paired with some mods (Capital Whiterun being a notorious offender, MAYBE eFPS but I haven't had any report about it). Typically a crash due to occlusion occurs when opening the map, just in case
But it's just that I've had it for so long and it's caused no issues. Still though I use synthesis and am learning loot so things working properly always means they can now work properly enough to crash haha
If there are crashes, it may be due to you reaching a theoretical maximum amount of occlusion in a cell (this is just conjecture, as we have no way of proving it, but it seems likely), or having occlusion planes that intersect one another (which shouldn't be possible at -25000 Z position below the ground)
I felt certain it wasn't your mod and still am actually, just wanted to ask.
May not matter anyway since I struggled to replicate both of my crashes.
Occlusion crashes are repeatable 100% of the time if you have one, doing the same thing you were will crash everytime! :) So the crashes must not be occlusion related! If you have a crash log I can have a look and tell you if it's occlusion or not
I told him that it's just referenced because it should always be used since it's netting over everything but still wanted to confirm! I will link you the thread
It is definitely not caused by my mod, which just appears because it is one of the mods modifying the cell containing said draugr ;)
This is an area that I wish was fully explored, as it would definitely help people experiencing occlusion-related crashes!
And eFPS, while it can give some FPS back, does indeed walk the fine line between just enough and too many occlusion panes! It's a nightmare to patch for, because as you said, any extra occlusion could potentially cause crashes...
The solution to all of this could be occlusion baked in the meshes themselves (I think I recall reading that it is possible, too!) but that's also a gargantuan task...
eFPS adds occlusion everywhere else (buildings, walls etc), mine adds a horizontal field at -25000, to ensure anything below that is never rendered.
This would ensure that when some mods don't disable things properly, and just move things way below the ground, you don't render that stuff.
Also there's Rob's Bug Fixes - Our xEdit Scripts which has its own Synthesis Patcher, and I'm just wondering, would your mod be better than this? And would it be a good idea to remove the z floor syntehsis pather in place of your mod?
Update JUST read the comment in the other thread in relation to this, my apologies. They both work together like beans & cheese :'3
Ty for the mod.
As for synthesis folks... well I used synthesis to create this mod ^^ made a patcher on my end (unreleased) to create and place occlusion panes wherever there are objects in cells, basically.
I tested with 2 main ESM plugins and still have CTDs in Whiterun.
I using Capital Whiterun Expansion and Whiterun has walls Redone and Whiterun Metropolis too. Can they touching some necessary navmeshes and broke the game? I did not have CTDs in Whiterun's interiors with huge modding, btw. Only after 5-10 mins at exterior's streets it happens.
I need only 1 main file? Master Occlusion.esm or Master Occlusin for CWE.esm, right?
Thanks!!
With BOS MO enabled:
1. Load savegame in Falkreuth Inn
2. Step outside the Inn
3. Try to open the worldmap - CTD!
Reproduced 8 times in a row. Crashlogger reports an occlusion-checking func at the top of the callstack. Every single time.
Disable BOS MO. No other changes:
1. Load savegame in Falkreuth Inn
2. Step outside the Inn.
3. Try to open the worldmap: No crash. Map displays.
Reproduced 3 times in a row.
No, i don't care if this possibly is a conflict with some other mod. All i need to know for my personal purposes is, if a mod is troublesome. Any mod that causes CTDs in combination with another mod, i simply don't install. So this post is not a support request: I have already decided to drop this mod from my LO, and am simply reporting the incident, in case other users have the same problem.
And yes, BOS MO was placed before USSEP as recommended.
Clearly you have some messed up occlusion in falkreath, regardless of this mod. Also, adding or removing mods mid playthrough is bad, everyone knows that.
and here I´m modding skyrim to relax and escape from everyday life, but I see that it is not the same for everyone, thanks for the mod man.
I use this in a 2100+ plugin modlist, including Open Cities and different overhauls for each city, town, and village. Zero CTD related to this mod, or outside of Skyrim just being Skyrim. Thank you, J3w3ls for creating this mod!
Does it conflict? Oh, it explains why I had some issues now on my previous LO and I have no issues on my new LO with this mod whatsoever.