Due to time constraints and the sheer number of mods to keep track of, I may not be able to reply to all posts. The Enairim community can probably help you out faster!
Necromancy perks really need a mass overhaul. They don't mesh with the primary objective to necromancy spells by being incredibly short windows for any effect on spells meant to last absurdly long to permanent duration. I've also avoided the skeleton army route since the bones are just weight clutter and having to eventually spend a perk just to get a power to avoid getting body blocked to Oblivion seems silly.
Necromancy seems oddly designed when compared to the rest of the reworked magic trees that all seem to greatly understand their class feel and goals while providing ways to empower them or spec into unique focuses.
different paths in skill trees supporting different playstyles e.g. the various weapon paths, frost destruction path seems to be clearly aligned to support melee builds, etc, and synergy with other trees/paths. Replayability has skyrocketed since I found this mod.
stat scaling perks which keep abilities relevant at higher levels/difficulties e.g. melee power attack stamina scaling, speech shout scaling
"practical/combat" options in non-combat trees which make you actually want to consider spending points in
Dislike:
2h weapon perks aren't good enough to put them on par with 1h weapons - 1h already has better dps and with Valravn enemies constantly bash me out of 2h power attacks while 1h is apparently too fast for them, so 2h is still a slower and weaker experience (plus 1h indirectly benefits from several other trees due to having a variable left hand). The heavy armor tree has a perk for stagger resist chance but I feel like reliable stagger resist should be given to the 2h tree (e.g. stagger resistance during power attacks)
conjuration tree needs improvements; skeleton army is clunky (why need a separate perk power to turn them off?) and I'm not a fan of the expiry/upkeep. Some necromancy perks only last for some time after the corpse is raised instead of lasting forever with the corpse, which contradicts the philosophy that raised dead last longer compared to atronachs and also since it takes a while for the raise animation to play you also get less mileage in a fight out of that limited effect; you'd want to bring them to the next fight but the perk effect will be gone. Bound weapons and atronachs could scale better (not sure why the atronach levels after the upgrade perk are still fire<frost<storm instead of all being the same). Summons in general just feel like meat shields but it would be cool if there was a path for dedicated summoner dps.
I don't like having to choose between what kinds of equipment I can make in smithing, especially since I can't look at what those equipment pieces take and provide. I'd really like a configuration option to not have to choose and just get both.
My point about not being able to make a wise decision because you can't preview the armors still stands. But I see now that you can use a second perk point to get the other.
I don't have anything that I dislike about this mod. With that being said, the bone collector perk clashes with the undead fx mod. I wish there was a fix for this. Other than this I love this perk overhaul mod it's fantastic, by no means perfect but it's awesome! Some people say that The Dark Arts mod is what messes with undead fx but I removed the dark arts and still get the same bug. I guarantee that it's something to do with the bone collector perk. Please fix! This mod is awesome and I choose this mod over undead fx but I would love to play with both.
Overflowing cup seems to be constantly activated even when i reset perks i wouldnt mind it but it seems to kill my hud with it repeatedly activating and deactivating.
skeleton army is clunky (why need a separate perk power to turn them off?)
How would you turn them off otherwise?
and I'm not a fan of the expiry/upkeep.
If you never have to replace your skeletons, firstly they won't scale with you and therefore become useless, and secondly the whole feature becomes irrelevant after 20 minutes and you just make some skeletons once and forget about it.
Some necromancy perks only last for some time after the corpse is raised instead of lasting forever with the corpse, which contradicts the philosophy that raised dead last longer compared to atronachs and also since it takes a while for the raise animation to play you also get less mileage in a fight out of that limited effect; you'd want to bring them to the next fight but the perk effect will be gone.
This has been requested many times but Skyrim has a bug where minion buffs fall off when you go through a load screen.
Yes, that means the vanilla Dark Souls perk as well as most "permanent" reanimation perks in every other perk mod are actually broken and just as limited as the Ordinator ones, they just don't say so. There are very few exceptions and they use trickery to avoid the bug, but you can only do that with a small subset of possible effects.
Bound weapons and atronachs could scale better (not sure why the atronach levels after the upgrade perk are still fire<frost<storm instead of all being the same). Summons in general just feel like meat shields but it would be cool if there was a path for dedicated summoner dps.
If bound weapons do the same damage as crafted weapons, then smithing and enchanting are useless because bound weapons are much easier to get. They have to do less damage for balance, and that means they will never be competitive on damage. So instead they have other effects, such as reducing magic resistance and inflicting damage over time.
This has proven to be something people do not readily understand. They see a lower number in the text box and conclude bound weapons are useless. Actually, reducing magic resistance will benefit atronach damage, so this is the option you wanted for a dps summoner: use a bound weapon and hit them with it.
Also, minion level scaling is not the job of a perk overhaul, but a magic overhaul such as Odin, which it does.
I really love how the lightning spells work in your mod, especially seeing enemies jitter across the ground when they get electrocuted.
The two handed skill tree super fast swing perk is awesome when you can swing that f*#@ing zweihander 5x as fast.
I think that conjuration could use some more love, the conjure bone altar definitely made things more convenient but at a level 60 requirement its kinda eehhhh "do I really want to power level conjuration to get it", maybe a magic spell or power that just uses up the bones in your inventory could be used to summon a skeleton? I like the idea and the bound weapons are really great at where they're at.
May I suggest making use of Dynamic Activation Key to improve the UI a bit? Many of Ordinator's perks involve adding an option when activating something, which involves a game-pausing pop-up menu. DAK could help reduce those pop-up menus, making the gameplay experience "smoother".
At the moment, I dislike that there's not much incentive to not just wear heavy armor as a mage.
Including an optional file that adds penalties to magicka (e.g. regen, cost, whatever) if wearing light or heavy armor (with heavy having the highest penalty) would be pretty cool.
Or if including penalties isn't your preference, maybe consider adding perks to the light armor tree that increase magicka regen/damage/whatever if wearing only light armor or unarmored clothes (with unarmored clothes having the higher benefits).
May I suggest making use of Dynamic Activation Key to improve the UI a bit? Many of Ordinator's perks involve adding an option when activating something, which involves a game-pausing pop-up menu. DAK could help reduce those pop-up menus, making the gameplay experience "smoother".
Using SKSE means abandoning console players and makes every game update a risk. I can't count on Dynamic Activation Key getting updated for new game versions in perpetuity, so tying this mod to it seems like a liability.
At the moment, I dislike that there's not much incentive to not just wear heavy armor as a mage.
Or if including penalties isn't your preference, maybe consider adding perks to the light armor tree that increase magicka regen/damage/whatever if wearing only light armor or unarmored clothes (with unarmored clothes having the higher benefits).
Making mages wear light armor instead of heavy armor is not an improvement.
If Robe of the Magi, Geomancer and Energy Shield plus flesh spells are not good enough to encourage robes for DPS casters, then nothing is going to be good enough, specifically magicka regen, which already comes on robes in spades.
But these perks are not specifically in the light armor tree because robes are not light armor. Is it possible that you only looked in the light armor tree for robe perks?
Doombringer and Spelldancer being separated from their parent perks seems like an unnecessary perk tax for spellswords/armor mages.
It is funny to see two exact opposite requests in this thread, one saying there's no reason for mages not to wear heavy armor, the other saying heavy armor is not mage friendly enough.
Overall, I think Ordinator is well balanced mod - it nerfs some things from vanilla for ability to make super powerful, but specialized builds. Only improvements I would say would be "objective" improvements would be making "Born to Fight" from Heavy Armor make heavy armor weightless like the Light Armor skill perk equivalent, since Light Armor already grants speed buff(s) and Heavy Armor requires huge skill and perk investment to become really good; secondly, I think "Sorcerer's Robe" from Vokrii is objectively better than "Robe of the Magi"; thirdly I think Ordinator has a lot of once per day perks, and I don't think they are "fun".
Subjectively, as somebody who has played a lot of both Ordinator and Vokrii, I found that while playing Ordinator I miss some perks from Vokrii more than I miss some Ordinator perks while playing Vokrii. For example, I really like Vokrii's telekinesis perks and Destruction cloak perks. Vokrii also has something like "Sun's Judgement", but that one is double edged sword. And as I said before, Ordinator allows for highly specialized builds, but I feel like I need to take extra perk per level for making more fun hybrid builds, or that I like Vokrii's one perk mastery system more than Ordinator's two perks. That being said, I think magic scales better in Ordinator, I think some trees like Smithing and Alchemy (not to mention Conjuration and Illusion) are better done than Vokrii's and Ordinator's massive perk trees are best for actual roleplaying and making unique characters.
Sorry I meant why is there a separate perk at level 40 to gain the ability to temporarily disable them, instead of being a feature of the base perk, as it's a whole 20 levels away for something that is purely a useful (and arguably mandatory) QoL function rather than anything that would help in combat.
If you never have to replace your skeletons, firstly they won't scale with you and therefore become useless, and secondly the whole feature becomes irrelevant after 20 minutes and you just make some skeletons once and forget about it.
Personally I feel that the experience of upgrading your skeletons only for them to expire out of your control and you then have to start all over again is unsatisfying. The feature wouldn't become irrelevant if they were made permanent if the skeletons could actually be killed - last I checked, they can get knocked out in combat but resurrect afterwards. So I guess something like permanent skeletons which you could beef up and lose if they were killed makes more sense to me (and introduce a gameplay factor of needing to heal/support your most invested skeletons). We already have conventional summons which can be used as meat shields as long as you have magicka, so why not have special skeletons you care about? Also an option to destroy one/all to refund bones could alleviate the issue of needing to remake them to keep the scaling up (or they would just eventually get killed off anyway once they fall too far behind). Admittedly, some enemies could wipe out your skeletons easily/unfairly if this was the case, and the current immortal skeletons would be less punishing...but maybe being able to upgrade their magic resist could solve it.
This has been requested many times but Skyrim has a bug where minion buffs fall off when you go through a load screen.
Since that's the case, would it be feasible to instead change the perks to instead grant a spell/power to the player to apply the buff on demand? Or perhaps even make them into self-buff spells/powers/passives (not sure if permanent passives would cause lag) aura/cloak that would apply the perk effects to nearby reanimated undead, so that they would be kept up through load screens (would definitely need some rebalancing though, like maybe making the shock one apply the speed buff for like 1-2 seconds, so you could keep it up constantly throughout a fight and throughout a whole dungeon but it would require active management). Otherwise, if there's no feasible way to let you carry the effects into subsequent fights without constantly replacing your undead (which might not be preferable if you have to trade a strong unit for a weak one just because it would gain the perk effect) then my personal preference would be to just replace them with different perks that aren't beholden to such restrictions since I personally find them to be very limited in use, and especially since they are perks and not just niche spells you can pick up at a vendor, though of course I can only speak for myself and not anyone who might enjoy them.
If bound weapons do the same damage as crafted weapons, then smithing and enchanting are useless because bound weapons are much easier to get. They have to do less damage for balance, and that means they will never be competitive on damage. So instead they have other effects, such as reducing magic resistance and inflicting damage over time.
I don't think they should do the same base damage because as you said they come with other effects and smithing/enchanting are higher effort and therefore should produce better results, but I do think the current upper limit to their strength is too low. Perhaps I'm just biased because my first thought for bound weapons would be to use them as a primary weapon for a melee spellsword type character, so my mind goes towards improvements in the form of additional scaling based on skill level like some other magic trees or maybe magicka stat to be the reverse of the stamina scaling present in the 1h/2h trees, considering they are functionally a damage-dealing ability. I use Zim's Immersive Artifacts and I actually prefer using the artifact weapons over enchanting my own even though they wouldn't be as strong as minmaxed enchantments because they have some novel and useful effects, and at the same time they can be smithed to scale into late game - I suppose my perspective is also influenced by this and I would wish for something similar for Ordinator bound weapons, for them to have unique/fun effects that I would forgo crafted weapons for and can still be used on harder difficulties. For example, just giving them something like an absorb magicka effect would be my idea of a useful effect that supports certain magic builds/playstyles and isn't something that turns them into heavy hitting god weapons. Currently the low levels perks don't feel as impactful as some other magic trees at the same level (the level 40 perk is just aimed at battling uncommon daedra and reanimated undead, and auto soul trap at level 30 which could just be built into mystic weapons and have another perk in its place, feel lackluster compared to destruction at those levels for example) only to finally get some more impactful perks at 50/60+.
The feature wouldn't become irrelevant if they were made permanent if the skeletons could actually be killed - last I checked, they can get knocked out in combat but resurrect afterwards.
I feel like losing them because they do something stupid would feel a lot worse than losing them because the time runs out?
Since that's the case, would it be feasible to instead change the perks to instead grant a spell/power to the player to apply the buff on demand?
That's what the minion buff conc spells in Odin are for and people mostly complain about having to cast them. (Which is the whole point: you can't make pure minion builds viable if you can just add equally strong minions to every other build with no commitment beyond perk points. Minion builds have to have access to minion buffs that other builds don't.)
Or perhaps even make them into self-buff spells/powers/passives (not sure if permanent passives would cause lag) aura/cloak that would apply the perk effects to nearby reanimated undead
Cloaks that apply long term buffs have the same problem as passives in that the effect breaks on transition but the cloak doesn't immediately refresh it. The cloak has to tick rapidly to make sure the effect comes back quickly, and it seems each tick briefly removes the effect before reapplying it (much like how weapon hit perks will remove their effect before the hit lands and reapply it afterwards, so weapon hit perks that buff your damage like Denting/Crushing Blows need an awkward workaround). I don't know how long this gap is, but it seems to be more than one frame. So if you have like a damage increasing effect on your cloak, there's some number of attacks that occur between those events and don't get the damage buff.
The Vokrii solution does use a cloak, but it uses a cloak to apply a cloak because that's what that particular perk does: it gives minions a vampiric cloak. It syncs up so that the vampiric cloak turns off and on in between its own ticks and its own effect has a 1 second duration, so the gaps don't matter. If you want to apply anything other than a cloak, you'll have to deal with the strobing.
The other Vokrii perk
The other thing is that people today are obsessed with avoiding hidden cloaks (or "cloaked spells" or whatever else they think the term is) because putting OnHit() scripts on NPCs is bad practice and somehow this message got distorted into cloaks being bad practice because you can use cloaks to put OnHit() scripts on NPCs.
So now a mod having a cloak in it is a deal breaker for low information users regardless of what the cloak actually is for (see: Valravn).
Perks like Serenade being restricted to the opposite sex only kinda sucks for gay peeps and is restrictive for roleplaying. Would be nice to see it as a perk choice where you could choose opposite sex or same sex when you take the perk, and maybe even a second perk level to take both.
I think the Necromancer side of the Conjuration tree needs some additions. The tree is mostly for reanimating of the dead, but since the daedra side excludes summoned undead, all of them get ignored. With all your spell mods, Anniversary, and Dawnguard there are tons of cool summoned undead that are simple less usefull than a fully buffed non-undead summon. Removing the non-undead requirement from the daedra side and this dividing it into a pure summon side and pure reanimation side or adding a similar path as the daedra path to the reanimation path would be really nice.
Another thing would be the Autocannon. I really like the idea, especially for a melee built as a ranged option, but it is really hard to use. An extra could be something like a shoulder cannon. A late perk could change the Cannon from being stationary to floating near the player with the ability toggling the cannons instead of placing them. Another option could be to give the cannon auto aim, with potentially reduced damage / disabled aoe damge. This way they could give support fire without harming friendlies, but would do less damage as a downside.
Bedsides this just minor things. I personally like to play with custom races or use the less represented races which makes the kinship perk (speech) useless. could be changed to use the same sex instead of same race or be placed in a parallel path like Business relation. This way it would be equally useful for every race or at least it would be an optional perk that doesnt waste a perkpoint for this that only want the salesman perk.
I think for flavor purposes it would be cool if I could hide my skeletons I feel really weird walking into a city and having tons of skeletons following I also think it would be interesting if there was just more interactions with skeletons in general maybe you could reshape skeletons as you please a skeleton that was once a warrior could be turned into a mage or you could turn fire mages into frost mages when facing a Atronarch , I also think that the earthquake drum Is pretty useless maybe I need to broaden my horizons but the amount of damage it does isn't all that special and not only that it requires you to get really close to an opponent while also standing completely still so in my load order its a death sentence I think an increase in range and damage would be cool, that way I could potentially use the drum to support summons while not being right next to my enemies
Hello! I like mostly everything as you can do so many things thanks to Ordinator The only thing that bothers me is when you Legendary Alchemy, you have no access to the Last Perk ''That which does not kill you'' anymore That could've been such a good thing as an RP Alchemist and/or being able to get more extra perk points by achieving to get to 100 again Would make mods like Dragon Souls for Perk Points in my opinion obsolete :3
I think for flavor purposes it would be cool if I could hide my skeletons
This was a power in older versions but the game loses track of actors that aren't loaded and it resulted in you losing those skeletons at random.
The only thing that bothers me is when you Legendary Alchemy, you have no access to the Last Perk ''That which does not kill you'' anymore That could've been such a good thing as an RP Alchemist and/or being able to get more extra perk points by achieving to get to 100 again
Endlessly looping for infinite perk points and alchemy magnitude doesn't seem very balanced. I could make the bonus temporary, but then the perk points would have to go away.
Would make mods like Dragon Souls for Perk Points in my opinion obsolete :3
There's a pickpocket perk for that.
I think the Necromancer side of the Conjuration tree needs some additions. The tree is mostly for reanimating of the dead, but since the daedra side excludes summoned undead, all of them get ignored. With all your spell mods, Anniversary, and Dawnguard there are tons of cool summoned undead that are simple less usefull than a fully buffed non-undead summon.
Agreed - Ordinator is from 2015 and back then the Creation Club undead creation didn't exist yet (and neither did the spells from Apocalypse they allegedly copied to design their effects), so there were a lot fewer to go around. The bad news is that I'm pretty sure they also didn't keyword them properly so detecting them is going to be a problem.
Removing the non-undead requirement from the daedra side
Understood, but then Elemental Potency becomes a problem. I'll need to think about this.
Perks like Serenade being restricted to the opposite sex only kinda sucks for gay peeps and is restrictive for roleplaying.
Agreed, and anything to avoid getting dragged into the culture war is good.
The Advanced Smithing perk need a second investment that allow the other type, currently can only be chosen between workbench and grindstone and cannot be changed after.
I just wanted to cease the moment and thank you for the incredible mod. On many many regards it has brought way more fun to the perk system for many years. For that, thank you and I'm grateful.
A simple side note regarding the update you're considering. I have nothing to add except that Necromancy, especially the Bone Collector path requires some rework. Others have said it many times, and if I were you I would roll my eyes saying "This again?" :) So basically, there is nothing you don't already know. There needs to be a way to somehow bring back "bury/exhume" functionality, at least. Regardless, I am sure however you decide to solve this is gonna great.
I'm using the Thief Skills Rebalance (which I love, thanks), but the Lockpicking perks pretty much wipe out the nerfs - the first one doubles how easy Novice locks are to pick, and I have to take it to get anything else in the tree. So... could you alter this for the TSR patch? Or, (maybe in addition) lower the lockpick values in TSR a little further - I think they're still too easy.
Oh, and Sneak. I didn't look at that one, but it might need it too.
I Have one big question about timed/perfect blocks, can someone find the answer to me? Ordinator timed block is ALMOST Perfect, Stuns the target, has a time penalty if you don't hit, and only ads 30% more damage block instead of negate 100% damage of the atack, and that is for me make it soo good, other timed block mods you can just span timed blocks and complety negate 100% damage by a lvl 150 enemy with a lvl 1 caracther and just block all their atacks ultil they die, the problem with ordinator timed block is the 1 f*#@ing second time to time block, making almost impossible to miss, and very exploitable since you have other mods that adds damage buffs when you perfect block a enemy, its possible to make a punish sistem like ordinator for valhala? Or is possible to edit ordinator timed block to be like 0.3 seconds? or like, make a patch to make valhalla or other timed block mods benefit for the other buffs for timed block for ordinator? I tried to edit ordinator timed block in sseedit but you can't put any number lower than 1 or decimal number at all, I Think Ordinator timed block perk have incridible potencial to make skyrim combat more skill based with that change
Unarmed Robe Monk / Flesh spell type builds are a little rough to initiate early game due to Light Armour being tied to unarmed combat, could you please make the Mastery Perk itself give Light Armor experience per punch and only let Iron Fist increase the damage dealt?
The summon tree is ... Strange. At low lvl they are one shotted by everything, so hard to make an early game around them (yeah, Skyrim problem, not Ordinator ^^)
The skeletons (and altars) is a way around this (finally tried them once ^^). The fact they are immortals is a HUGE progress, the first ones are still weak so it's not OP (and the "Make way power" is the solution to a "one-man-army" build stuck behind hitbox). It's a huge perk Investment, which is OK for a focused character, and we got solutions for it if you just want everything (patchs here or other mods, even only Shards of Skyrim). But the 13 bones part is a bit much. If you want to build 5-6 skeleton + buff them ... And keep a minimum "reserve" at hand, it's a huge part of the inventory (vanilla size) of a mage character.
The others summons are hard to use in comparaison ... The "too weak" part, again. Maybe different versions of the low lvl spells with more summons ? (Like, 1 wolf with skill lvl lower than 25-30, 2 wolf with skill around 35 / 45, and 3 wolf after 50 ?) Hard to balance with the max number of summons probably ... But it would make them less useless, without stats tweaks. A bit like what you tried to do with the summon Skeever perks ?
And you tried to "separate" the skeleton part from the others, but then the undead, which would be good additions for a necromancer build too, require to take a 2nd TONS of perks (many not useful ones) before access. Hard to balance with already a 3rd perk branch for Summons weapons, but maybe the undead branch should be more "middle ground" between the other summons and the skeletons ? So that a player could add some if he want, without being required to take every one of them. Or even fuse them (undead and skeleton branch), and make it possible for player to choose if we want to use zombie meshes, or skeleton ? Or give them different builds / use, so that we choose which one we want.
An alternative to the altar / 13 bones would be to add a power to transform the vanilla undead (so no rework needed there) as permanant summons (skeletal ones, or variant undead / draugr). This way the weight would be less annoying as it would become a "one time" goal, and not daily consumables that you need to keep around all the time. That way they could be upgraded too ? With perks and/or better materials.
The taming perk (speech skill) is great to use (keep the apparence of the animal tamed, which mods like Instincts do not), but ... "A bit" OP ^^' Even without the buffs. Tame one strong pet, and sit down looking at him wrecking the world. Here, the "only 1 perk point" requirement (2 with buff) could not be enough. The idea is a core for any tamer build (please, never remove), but few more perks could add a bit of missing balance, for type, size or lvl of animal tamable, or diverse buffs. Like the forge tree, instead of 1 specific buff "for all" (and so nothing for any modded animals without the right keywords), make the player able to choose the buffs used for the pet.
An exemple could be: - Reducing the lvl of the first perk for taming the first animal (With a requirement ? Taming item ? Need to be half HP ? So we need to work a bit for a strong pet), then 20 lvl later a perk were player need to choose between two bonus (atk or armor/hp), then 20 lvl later another choice (between atk speed or move speed ?), then 20 lvl later ... And maybe even a 2 pets perk lvl 80 or 90 ? °°
If the player can't get the 2 bonuses (which would cost 2 perks points to do) we will get animals feeling a bit more focused on than "Press E once and forget". It will not be that costly perk point wise if we can only take 1 buff each time, but it's a STRONG tool anyway, so ... Kinda justified even if it cost more points, isn't it ?
Or one buff perk with 3-4-5 lvl, and every buffs in it. The player can take only one each time they take this perk, so they could at most only be able to take some of the buff from all the varieties available, and give priority to the one they like the most
(Optional requirement to move those perks out of the speech tree, or to enable the player to get speech exp from those interactions ? after fighting or as time/days pass)
Not sure if this is something else on my end but I think ashes to ashes in the restoration tree affects undead followers as well. Serana keeps getting her health tanked after combat ends and turning hostile, and I think it might be this perk? idk I'll see after I legendary the skill if it stops. Other than that I love the mod, it's a staple of my load order.
Only thing I somewhat dislike is the axe perks Bleed like a lamb/Bleed like a dog only working on living enemies. Sucks that axes are the only weapon that get a perk that's useless against half the enemies in the game while hammer and sword perks are always useful.
Would love to see the vanilla necromage in the restoration tree be added back in some way. (i think thats what it was called.) Also does your dual casting fix the vanilla problem of it being not worth by it costing more than 2x and not doing 2x the damage etc.?
I was fiddling around the creation kit for personal use, as i personally think that shock spell perks are generally weaker and could use a buff, and noticed that arc burn duration is actually 2 seconds, not 4.
Sadly this is the first time i tried to modify something to this degree, it's not that easy.
In my opinion i would change nova perk to also have a 20 sec effect on shock damage and i would change arc too 5 damage gets pretty irrelevant at higher level, it could be instead a portion of the damage dealt by the shock spell. In order to bring shock spells closer to the others.
Fire is especially the strongest element, no contest. Even if the theoretical output is similar the activation method of fire spells is more versatile than the other 2. And in my experience fire has just better damage modifiers.
I wouldn't even know where to begin. I enjoy the over haul so much. What i do notice is there seems to be a whole lot of powers in the perk trees. Something that I'm generally not into since you're only allowed 1 equipped at a time. It's just annoying to switch between them even though they are interesting. So glad that experimenter for alchemy is much lower on the tree. I think it ate a few perks in vanilla and was pretty high up.
Kind of wish there was a separate unarmed skill tree. Or maybe if Heavy Armor had an unarmed splinter that focuses on staggered attacks. For ex. a power punch with heavy armor that works similar to unrelenting force (but perhaps doesn't launch enemies so far lol). Maybe have a "concussion" debuff that reduces enemy melee attack speed or causes casters to misfire a spell.
it's a nice mod and the only thing i dislike is having to choose between one thing or another (for example choosing only one upgrade between the workbench or the grindstone), i know that the whole point of this mod is to have a more especific play style through the game but it would be nice adding another file to let you choose all of those options using more perk points (sorry if i mispelled something, english isn't my first language)
Like: Perks that create build-defining distinctions all on their own, giving unique identities to the tools at your disposal: Lab Skeever, Witchmaster, Vancian Magic, Intuitive Magic, Snipe, Lion's Arrow, Timed Block, Apocalypse Proof...I was going to list a couple from every skill tree, but I think you get the idea.
Dislikes: Dislike is a strong word, but since I play with Realistic Damage, the directional power attack perks are rarely worth the trouble and I haven't taken them in years.
Commentary on the ongoing conversation: Necromancy: Losing skeletons at random is less annoying than the problems that come from not having the ability to temporarily hide/dismiss them. Speaking from experience, since I use a mod that adds bury/exhume back. Simply note that this can happen on the perk and call it a feature, not a bug.
Conjuration Generally: Might be able to work around summon buffs dropping off by making them reapply on activating a summoned creature, similar to some of your other effects.
Overall, this mod is in a super great spot in my opinion. However, and this is a very minor thing, I would kinda like to see the bound weapons soul stealing thing either be a branch off of the line or be later in the line. Quite annoying when all your grand soul gems are filled with trash souls. haha
Im having the same issue with Overflowing Cup it seems that spamming a healing spell that has a duration(aka constantly healing for like 5 seconds) cause the perk to keep resetting and causing massive fps lost especially with Sky ui on(also true HUD) the top right u can see its buff icon constantly resetting itself. Even after the healing is done the resetting stays for quite awhile (especially if I was spamming my heal on a hard fight). Had to go to an earlier save since removing the perk doesnt stop the resetting
I play in VR with the VR patch mod, that switch melee damage or bow draw time (since those are made by the player) by attack buff or itical chance.
I like : Roleplay possibilties, as investing on a few specific trees in mandatory and create more diverse fun builds. The gameplay mechanic added. 1H Rogue parry, 2H Sideways that hit all target, Stimulant speed bonus, reflexes, free ward, you shall not pass, beartrap... Those add new way to be beter at the game and are much better that flat damage boost.
I dislike : Some vokri perk would be so good here, espacialy to enhance the alchemy tree, Slow Metabolism and vokri's stimulant are way better. EDIT : I found a mod tweak that change alchemy a bit more to my test :D https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/29079?tab=description
I genuinely love this mod, my only real dislike is the miracle perk, because its a one off its basically never used. Something like restricting the use to a single body type like amulets, & just removing the extra % bonus imo would be good. Alternatively extend the script to allow an option to destroy it, requiring some unique item & ritual, allowing you to create another. I know this has been ongoing discussion forever but I still feel its an issue. Only other thing that bugs me is the gem dust pop up every time you visit an enchanter as many times you dont wish to use it or just wish to disenchant, maybe turning gem dust into a lesser power? The only other thing which is more targeted as something that is generally difficult to implement, would be some conjuration perk that removes friendly damage to undead/summons, mainly spell attacks without making your summons immune to magic, or highly resistent. As a seperate idea an Alteration perk either adding an additional or giving you a choice of a second seperate unique effect for each standing stone would be cool. Conjuration maybe a power that adds a summonable merchant with 5000gold. Something also missing from the spell mods is a summonable pickaxe/woodaxe so maybe they could be merged into a perk. Melee trees are great, but the improvements would be based on adding more combat abilities. Maybe something like Two hand, once per 10 minutes holding a power attack causes you to enter a whirlwind flurry attack 3 times as fast hitting everything around you in x radius.
I'm enjoying mostly the alteration gold effects (would like to turn people into gold all the time thought) and the unlimited potential of Dragon's Hoard in pickpocketing (I'm also using a mod for 100% pickpocket chance cap, that could be available by default in your mod).
As for the dislike :
I do agree with other fellow players that the skeletons in the necromancy skill line is not satisfying. The amount of energy you have to spend for something that is not permanent is not so fun for me, but maybe its just not my style idk.
The pets you can tame in the speech skill line do not feel so good for some reason. They teleport at wrong places and they get attacked randomly in towns or big battles by neutral NPCs. Also I should not be able to tell that the animal that now follows me is a fake (I tamed a wolf for example and its name and size changed). The skill itself would be more useful if the pets tamed would die easier in combat so that you could use it again instead of one time.
I never use the dwarven stuff in the forge. For some reason I kinda feel like they're like the skeletons but I'll have to check to be sure.
I don't know if it is intended or not, but whilst wielding a bow or crossbow, the x2 spell bonus from Vancian Magic doesn't apply, but with other two handed weapons, it does. Kind of a moot point because if you're using a bow, you can't cast - but in the case of loin's arrow or using ocato's recital -> ironflesh/muffle/etc. it's a pain. Otherwise, love the mod - been using one way or another for years.
With 2-handers might be an oversight; I assume the intention is to avoid giving you the vancian bonus when you aren't casting because it's an attempt to abuse the mechanic. Vancian is supposed to have an upside but also downside of limited casts.
If that's the case I've been enjoying the abuse for two-handers for a long time, lol. Using thundercrack from apocalypse's magic and spellscribe is easy +80 shock damage on power attack, nice on low weapon levels (as I have a habit of neglecting weapon skills for alch/ench/smith.) I thought it was intended to make up for people that focus on making things, leaving them extra wiggle room in combat in case they didn't have 80-90 in a prefered weapon skill. I understand what you're getting at, it's def an exploit and probably not meant to function like that. (Forget everything I said, don't fix it, lol!)
I really like the idea of the vancian magic system. I'm not sure how it would be expanded on, but I feel like it's handled really well with the spell slot system.
One thing I don't like:
I feel like skeletons can become way too overpowered to a certain extent and possibly scaling the power back a smidge on them could help balance them out a bit.
This is something I'm not sure about, but I noticed in Vokrii, the necromancy raise undead tree has synergy bonuses with both summoned and risen undead creatures. I never noticed if the bonuses to undead in Ordinator scale with summoned undead, but if it doesn't, adding bonuses for summoned undead creatures to scale with ordinator perks would be a nice QOL update to conjuration tree.
If you could make bound weapons more powerful, it'll be a really nice addition... I really like the bound bow, but even having all the perks related to it, and even archery perks, the bow just remains being weak in the late game. I hope you can give this a serious consideration, because bound weapons are always weak... either talking vanilla wise, or mod wise. x(
I love pretty much everything except the Two Handed skills that allow a power attack to hit all targets in front of the player. While not a bad idea in itself, it also lends itself to potentially friendly firing and accidentally killing any friendly NPCs such as followers, soldiers, quest companions, or other enemies. This also happens, and in my opinion this is the most important, during killmoves. Killmoves are one of my favorite ways to kill an NPC but then when I do it with these perks activated, then other enemies within a crowd of the one I'm currently kill-moving also just kind of drop dead behind them because this perk also activates on killmoves. This has happened a few times where I'm fighting in a Civil War questline, killmove a Stormcloak soldier, but a bunch of Imperial soldiers on my side happened to also be in the general front vicinity and also just drop dead in front of the soldier I'm killing, which I didn't want. Also happens in crowded bandit camps, cities where guards are fighting you, etc. Removing the perk with the console didn't really seem to help either, people are still dropping dead behind the enemy I'm killmoving. It's just kind of immersion breaking when I'm doing this to an enemy and the rest of them just die around me.
Im having the same issue with Overflowing Cup it seems that spamming a healing spell that has a duration(aka constantly healing for like 5 seconds) cause the perk to keep resetting and causing massive fps lost especially with Sky ui on(also true HUD) the top right u can see its buff icon constantly resetting itself. Even after the healing is done the resetting stays for quite awhile (especially if I was spamming my heal on a hard fight). Had to go to an earlier save since removing the perk doesnt stop the resetting
Your issue is script overload, not the perk. The perk has the same script load as vanilla Avoid Death.
This is something I'm not sure about, but I noticed in Vokrii, the necromancy raise undead tree has synergy bonuses with both summoned and risen undead creatures. I never noticed if the bonuses to undead in Ordinator scale with summoned undead, but if it doesn't, adding bonuses for summoned undead creatures to scale with ordinator perks would be a nice QOL update to conjuration tree.
The problem is that it is much easier to summon something than to reanimate it, so those perks would be much more powerful for summoned creatures than for reanimated ones...
Maybe I should just lift the entire summon tree from Vokrii.
Unarmed Robe Monk / Flesh spell type builds are a little rough to initiate early game due to Light Armour being tied to unarmed combat, could you please make the Mastery Perk itself give Light Armor experience per punch and only let Iron Fist increase the damage dealt?
The summon tree is ... Strange. At low lvl they are one shotted by everything, so hard to make an early game around them (yeah, Skyrim problem, not Ordinator ^^)
Summons are almost impossible to balance because they scale with difficulty just like enemies. I made an attempt in Ordinator, but the difficulty scaling is unfixable.
Pal, many people said skeleton tree branch are sucks(especially if balance are changing by other mods) How to change it, i know: go to more quality but low nambes of you skeletons, and make them more sinergy by conjuration tree Change category for skeleton from animal companion to permanent undead NPC Changing creating skeletons, on Altar we have cargo where we dropping down all bones(and some other staff), each bone have their place on altar, if altar have each of different bones we will see full skeleton on altar, and than we can make ritual Bone collector - you can make ritual for crieate skeleton, when you make it speng all you mana on it, where every 15 mana you spended your skeleton have 1 level Skeletons can have sword, axe or blunt weapons if we can add https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/517 we will change base skeletons Ork will have 25 more HP and 20 armour (need Orc skull) Argonian and Khajiit will have 10% faster (need cat or lizard skull and tail spinal) Elf will more poverfull as mage 10% (need elf skull) Skeleton nimble - requirements: conjuration 30, Bone collector - you can make skeleton with bow, spear or two daggers, if you choose nimble variant - skeleton will have only 50% of base Armour but faster on 20%, every 20 mana you spended your nimble skeleton have 1 level Dead tide perk - requirements: conjuration 30, Bone collector - adding nambers of it like every 30/20 conjuration for 1 skeleton Bone Adept - requirements: conjuration 40, Dead tide - every 15 levels of skeleton they will change to improoved version (skeleton-minion, skeleton-champion and so on), you can choose version on altar. Each version of skeletons are better than before: Minion will have baseHP 25+10*level and one iron weapon, Warrior will have baseHP 50+10*level, 50 armour and two hand steel weapon, Champion will have baseHP 75+10*level, 100 armour, shield and silvered weapon, Master will have baseHP 100+10*level, 150 armour, shield and silvered weapon or two hand silvered weapon. Barrow lord - requirements: conjuration 40, Dead tide - not changed but remove it from passing branch to blind brunch by side Reap and sow - requirements: conjuration 40, Dead tide - remove it from passing branch to blind brunch by side, removing increasing existing time for skeletons Skeleton mage - requirements: conjuration 50, Bone Adept - remove it from passing branch to brunch by side - you can make mages, and if they will high level they will use more powerful magic, and sometimes casting from two hands, they will need to spend alot more mana for level - 25 mana for 1 level Necrome secrets - requirements: conjuration 60, Bone Adept - you can spend more bones or/and metall parts(maybe leather strips too) to improove creating skeleton (+75 base armour, +100HP) Bone Expert - requirements: conjuration 60, Bone Adept - lower mana price for every skeleton level by 5 Conjure altar - removing from branch(why not conjure home or town?) Fire Ritual - removing from branch(this was s#*! crutch) Skeleton priest - requirements: conjuration 70, Skeleton mages - you now can create support skeleton with healing spells and alteration spells like invisible, and it will have necrotic aura who buffing damage on 20% and 150 armour of nearby friendly undead(you can have only one skeleton priest at time) it will need to spend alot more mana for level - 25 mana for 1 level Bone Master - requirements: conjuration 80, Bone Expert - you created skeletons take less 25% damage Cairn Skeletons - requirements: conjuration 80, Bone Expert - you can create Cairn variants of skeletons who more powerfull(they will have 20% more damage if normal, they will have 20% chance to criticall hit and 10% faster, if nimble, and they will have more power +20% and can cast from two hands ) Bone lord - requirements: conjuration 80, Necrome secrets - https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/76082 if add this, we can create one Bone lord who powerfull mage. You need to spend black soul gem and 4 hands for creating it. BaseHP 200+10*level, 100 armour Puppet Master - requirements: conjuration 90, Bone Master - Your created Skeletons deal 25% more attack damage and their spells are 25% more powerful when you are channeling spell. King of Bones - requirements: conjuration 100, Bone Master - Assume Control of a Skeleton while becoming invulnerable. The Skeleton does quadruple damage and takes half damage. Unless commanded to remain passive, it automatically attacks foes in range. Lasts up to 45 seconds. Command work - requirements: conjuration 100, Bone Master - If you have at least one of each tipe Skeletons(Warrior, Nimble and Caster) they will deal more damage, 10% for each skeleton nearby
I've been enjoying this mod for more years than I can remember. It's like Skyrim is the expansion for Ordinator at this point. It's all likeable, in my humble opinion. The thief archetype skills are among the best to ever grace any game. So many options for jolly skullduggery.
In defense of conjuration, it is a very close 2nd place favorite for me. Lookin' at you Bone Collector. Gives the whole necro-summoner thing entirely unique mechanics. For a good while I was perplexed by the non-cloth "Lead the Tempest" on a conceptual level. Then I had the death knight epiphany. Never looked back. I miss the "Bury/Exhume" option, but "Make Way..." does have its advantages.
Speaking of summoner/necromancy themes: I'd love to see a bridge from Crown of the False King to Master of the Mind. Subtle, yet prudent, if I may say.
Also~ I'm quite partial to those skills that get their own progression. "Wandering Warrior" being one, "Soul Raider" being another. Must be that extra layer that makes 'em interesting to me. Could do with more of that type of thing.
I'm not a fan of Hand to Hand being in Light Armor. If it can be its own perk tree, it should be in one-handed imo.
Not only does it feel restrictive for unarmored or heavy armor brawlers, but light armor brawlers being able to improve both their offensive and defensive tree at the same time feels wrong.
I know the Vancian Magic perk is liked by many, but I'm not exactly a fan of it. It makes all Magicka related enchantments useless, and it allows melee builds to cast ANY spell they should have no business being able to cast.
I really like the spirit tutor, ferocious strength, skull rattler, iron fist, and furious strength, i like how they base on the character's attributes making the skills scale alongside you as you continue to level up and increase your attributes, hoped that these kind of perks appear more in the other skill trees
Hand to Hand perks needs its own Perk Tree for sure especially for people who use other armors or non at all having it tied to Light Armor makes it rather annoying for monk users.
Perks that take a percentage of NPC remaining health (Breach the Wall Perk) should be removed its not fun using an Iron Great Sword and nuking 40% of a dragons health in one power attack that probably one of my major complaints. Everything else seems rather fine to me cause I modded my game to make enemies be rather busted.
I think the undead legion you command as a conjurer should be toggled, like they should automatically sumoon when youre in combat and disappear afterwards
If possible make the dwemer autocannon targeting autonomous with "remote control" perk rather than slaving its targting parallel to the player's crosshair
I have a VERY hard time to get anything worthwhile from it as it require you to stand right behind to get it to land any shots, cant hit a dragon or an ice atronach if I move away from it just a few meters
It also make it impossible to aim if an enemy goes behind it as it require you to look the opposite way for it to do a 180° turn, then keep "aiming" while turning your back to the enemy
If its doable then a rebalance (nerf) of its damage is warranted
Ability to deactivate some perks perhaps too (like an on/off power ?)
I dont like perks that adds a permanent drawback like the one that nullify your magicka regen but drain it from live entities near you to regen any
Or alchemy one that reduce your stats without a potion active but grants you double the difference if you do to name those i've seen
Ive been enjoying my Thief playthrough with Ordinator so far but there is one thing im dissapointed in and that is the lackluster options for poison gameplay. I think the mod could be expanded with a few perks in either the alchemy or stealth tree that make poisons more powerful (in addition to the existing perks).
That includes perks that would simply increase the potency of damage poisons, or durations. My creativity is limited atm but there is surely a lot to make poisons more interesting and useful. Give me a reason to not just make Health Damage and Paralyze poisons ':)
For example i am missing perks that make pickpocketing poisons into an enemys inventory viable. Poisons i make deal at most 1/10 of the enemies HP. So a perk that would drastically increase a poisons damage if its in the enemys pocket wouldve been cool for that playstyle. And i think being able to pickpocket poisons into the enemy shouldnt be locked behind a perk point, or at least be very low in the tree.
The Amplify Lethality is a perk where i would have thought, from the name alone, is a perk that makes poisons more useful, but what it does is giving you a lame power. Yes, sorry, but reducing ONE targets poison resistance once PER DAY doesnt seem that powerful considering how high up in the tree that perk is. It seems even worse when you compare it with perks that have no cooldown, like Laughing Ghost, which feels a bit too strong imo, even for being a level 100 perk.
Another playstyle with poisons i wanted to try was with Frenzy poisions, but there is no perk that make these better. Inducing frenzy via poison is just useless when it lasts at most 10 seconds and has a low level restriction for targets. These limitations are what im dissatisfied with the most.
Now, i have limited modding knowledge, so i dont know in what form my hopes for expansion are beyond the mods scope of perk changes. Like, i could imagine that there is some obscure reason for Frenzy poisions to scale the way they do, and that this mod doesnt want to touch that scaling system or whatever.
Maybe making poisons better would something for an entirely new mod anyways: Cyanide - Poisons of Skyrim ^^'
Edit: Forgot to add that i tried the Bear Traps too and they behave kinda wonky from my expirience. As in, they sometimes teleport to a completely different location than from where you droped it (happened multiple times where i droped one, wondered where it went, and further in the dungeon walked into it myself, killing me xD ). And a lot of times they dont damage the enemy that triggers them and it seemed to happen more often with the bigger traps... and im sorry, i know from a mod authors perspective that my description is pretty useless in sussing out potential bugs ^^'
Anyways, those were my thoughts for now. Thanks for making the mod. It gives me the motivition to try multiple runs with a variety of interesting builds in the future :D
How there is no: ''When entering combat, automatically activates the most effective magical armor spell you know'' in Alteration tree? is the most important quality of life Alteration Perks we can get in my opinion.
Edit: ''Ocato's Spell Trigger: Stores the (beneficial self-targeted) spell in the left hand. Replicates it when entering combat within 30 minutes'' from Odin's spells could do the work i think, did't get the point yet to get the spell
The fact that I can't wear a dragon mask without breaking my heavy armor build is a little frustrating and my girlfriend doesn't like that the unbreakable lockpicks perk was removed altogether. I don't mind much cos picks are so abundant but I'd like to know what your reasoning was?
Huge fan of this mod and have found workarounds for points both of these, specifically, because I want to play with it though!
Recommendation for a "Vancian Magic" improvement. Allow for "intuitive magic" spells to not count towards the spell slots (could even be renamed to "Cantrip")
Like the turret addition in the smithing tree, dislike that vancian magic makes any magicka influencing effects redundant.
I feel like with some tweaks vancian magic could qualify as enchantment tree skills. Make spell depletion result in a debuff that removes all base magicka but keep any that come from effects and enchantments (and maybe other penalties like making casting more expensive). This way magicka enchantments still have use. A new perk that allows you to replenish spells using soul gems when you cannot sleep.
Thanks for asking. We desperately need a hotfix for Home Mythal and Dimension Door. Where everytime you use Dimension Door you create a stack on the Home Mythal that eventually lags and freezes the game. Most people have no clue about this but you seem to have known about it for a long time. The ethical thing here is to remove Dimension Door or fix this immediately as it's one of the most appealing perks and will break many peoples save games after they've reached a very high level, since it's an endgame Alteration ability.
Not really a gripe more a fun idea, I think having one more perk in the two handed tree probably level 80-100 that allows you do dual wield two handed weapons. Think of the carnage.
Not too common for me to comment but I'll just throw my hat in the ring. Voice of Rage and Ruin is probably one of my favourite perks. Although I feel a slight quality of life improvement could be to make it work similar to Spellscribe, where you can set the power you wish to have Voice of Rage and Ruin activate. I feel it would really flesh out the usability of the power and expand the already insane amount of build potential even further.
Such as having a Knowledge is Power... Power activate randomly on a swing without needing to swap to, say, Unrelenting Force for the useful ragdoll abilities. Or Dragonrend when fighting dragons. Could also alleviate a little bit of the situation where you have a passive, out-of-combat power selected (Pray, Spellscribe, Contingency) and not realizing until it attempts to proc.
I feel a majority of people are just gonna end up tying one power to Voice of Rage and Ruin when they use it anyway. But I can understand why having the ability to switch on the fly is good too. Just my thoughts on the subject. Maybe an option to have it as either a power or it's original functionality via a small patch or something, I dunno.
Can't wait to see what you bring to the future of this great mod.
Edit: Also wanted to suggest a small change to the unarmed branch of the Light Armor tree. Have Breaking Waves also trigger all crits on a Heavy Armor perk. I totally understand the direction for making it Light Armor-focused. But having an option for those who wanna break face and tank hits would be interesting. Whilst they aren't mutually exclusive, obviously, it does make Wardancer feel a bit necessary when running an unarmed Light Armor build just because of the larger damage increase. Maybe have the effect trigger under Rallying Standard or Defiance (might be a bit OP though?).
Just another suggestion and I can see a case being made for Light Armor = More damage for unarmed because you're giving up defense and relying on skillful dodges to make full use of the build rather than just face tanking and punching. But just thought I'd add it in there because you never know.
I haven't gotten too far yet, but just the idea, I dislike Miracle being a one-off as well. Unless it already works this way- intentionally or otherwise- I'd suggest just letting the player loop legendary enchanting for it, getting just from 15 to like 50 is a lot of work already, and 100's even more. If a player's willing to put the work in, I say let 'em have it.
Two-handed weapons have a perk that reduces stamina consumption by 20 points, but this caused my attacks to consume no stamina at all and it became too easy to play at the very beginning of the game. It is better to change this value to a relative percentage. For example, reduce consumption by 20-30 percent.
Hand to Hand perks should probably be placed in the one handed tree this way you can use it with out having to sacrifice a perk just for light armor. Good for roleplaying reasons especially if your using other armors instead of light armor
The only problem i have had with this mod is the scorched earth and outburst perks, being a vampre i have very low health in the daytime meaning the outburst perk activates off cooldown, if im in a crowded area this causes alot of issues as you can imagine
the scorched earth perk has only given me a problem in the galdur amulet quest when fighting the three brothers at the end, they had turned into piles of ash so couldn't do what they needed to do to progress the quest to the next stage and it softlocked.
other than that, enjoyed the diversity vs vanilla, thanks for a great mod!
You could do an ordinator version for Constellations - Additional Players Skill. It features hand-to-hand combat, enchantment and acrobatics, but it doesn't have the depth of your skill trees. Would be amazing.
It's always reactivating, even when your health and everything else are full.
It's currently very annoying.
I'm speaking about level 50 Restoration | Overflowing Cup - Receiving a healing spell or effect when you are already at full Health overheals you, fortifying Health by 1 point per level of Restoration for 20 seconds.
I'm running into a problem with the Enchanting perk "Gem Dust". When activating the enchanting table the dialogue box pops up as intended however, when choosing "no" it cancels the enchanting session making it so I'm either forced to destroy a gem or not able to enchant at all. Is there a way around this or a fix?
I would assume it already has been looked into but I'll ask regardless. Since necromancy is by far the worst off of the overhauls, would it not be possible to make perks that provide the summoner with auras that grant undead new effects in the same way the illusion tree gets for allies and enemies? Even if you still can't make permanent or as conceptually interesting effects surely an aura would be better by allowing for longer lasting augments on minions so there is actual value to get out of perk points put into necromancy.
70 - Neverworld - Those affected by a Calm spell or effect within the radius of Imposing Presence are enraptured by a lotus dream from which they may refuse to return to reality. When the Calm is broken due to an attack, they may become Calmed again for 30 seconds.
Small nerf for balance purpose would be nice, calm refresh on target have very big chance
Wouldn't mind a patch to optionally remove the ash pile effect from conflagration. It's neat (and makes more sense than when it was attached to lightning) but they can get old after a while and can also cause problems, like ash piles that generate on top of each other or fail to generate properly (up in the air with their transparent bottoms or in the terrain) preventing looting. It wouldn't be a problem except unlike with lightning where i can just avoid magnetism by taking the alternative perk, the alternative to conflagration causes explosions when using fire spells in combat which can be an even bigger problem in other ways. Tried to disable it myself with xedit on a few occasion but could never figure out how.
Overall the mod is fantastic, the one problem i have is for the purposes of certain perks like you shall not pass. In particular the ability is really cool, but being capped at 50 damage while AOE is rather bad on higher difficulties, its fine on adept but if you want to play on master and legendary the health pool of enemies kind of just outpaces abilities that dont properly scale like this. My idea/suggestion would be to have it incorperate legendary skills into scaling abilities like this, where any ability that references your skill references it including the number of times its been made legendary, so a skill at 100 that is also legendary would be referenced for the purpose of this ability as 200. IDK how possible that is with the way the game is programmed and i also dont know how broken it would be, i dont think it would but maybe theres something im not considering.
as a fan of conjuration and skeletons, it seems to me that if the ability to hide skeletons for 20 seconds were changed to on/off and when turned back on, they would appear next to you, it would solve a lot of problems. and the ability to order them to follow, fight, and stand, I never got to use because you can't order them to wait outside the city or in the corner of the city or somewhere else, because if you move too far, they will still teleport to you, which makes this whole interaction window useless, and this problem, like many others, will be solved by changing this ability.
Party Starter - want toggle power to enable/disable bomb when out of invisibility, like the idea, but detrimental in situation that required stealth without killing
Hissing fist - toggle power for it too, but lock your choice of element once picked, sneaking disabled it yes, but being able to toggle it in my opinion feel much better
Bear trap - it seemingly affect every single bear trap in the game, stumbled upon this years ago in my playthrough, out at Whiterun region there's a camp with some enemy, was trying out bear trap build, the bear trap laid by enemy at that camp seemingly got buffed by bear trap perk damage. If my assumption is wrong, my bad, but if that's the case, I would like to have bear trap perk only affect specific bear trap build by the player, with different look compared to other bear trap. Dying by the hand of enemy's trap is fine, but not when those trap are somehow being amplified by player's perk choice. It discouraged new player from trying out bear trap
Cloak and dagger - if in your opinion it doesn't imbalance the gameplay difficulty, I would like for it to not have power attack as requirement in exchange for lower damage buff, if you think power attack requirement is necessary, I'll respect that design choice, the synergy with shadow warrior is good, but in combat speed is more important than damage, and shadow warrior only proc while in combat with enemy, it's easier to aim with regular attack with Valravn's weapon reach change than with power attack
Heavy armor perk tree - haven't tried out heavy armor because I'm a chicken in fight, but at a glance it seemingly encourage reckless and stupid behavior in combat, as it should be, but I want to know if Valravn's change are taken into consideration for heavy armor perk since Valravn encourage more tactical playstyle, especially against multiple enemy, I could think of blocking with heavy armor having no issue with this, but dual wielding with heavy armor, not so sure about that one
Unbreakable lockpick at level 100 lockpicking skill - the mod named "Broken Picks" alleviate a lot of the lockpicking gameplay issue with lockpicking, and I think unbreakable lockpick perk for it is the ultimate buff for a level 100 lockpicker, I like the seen this before perk, but if it's possible I would like to have unbreakable lockpick perk added back as additional perk (fun fact - ash spawn are considered automation by Skyrim, not sure if you know this, but I was shocked that the game even considered ash spawn as automation when I tried to activate it for some reason)
Trained rabbit - a suggestion to expand it's perk branch by having rabbit lowering NPC ability to detect sneaking target as distraction, and more from there
Throne of Nirn - add back as toggle power, a lot of the unpopular gimmicky perk aren't detrimental purely on it's quirk, but by the lack of ability to enable/disable it, I know perk can be removed via console, but it pull people out of immersion, the clutter of powers are inevitable in Skyrim even in base game, and if too many power is a concern for players, they could choose to not pick it, but a choice to toggle some perk would be fantastic.
Vancian magic - I wanted to try Vancian magic but haven't gotten around it due to my obsession with spell research(it make acquiring spell much more challenging, thus make it harder to level any magic skill in general), would try it after I got my spell progress going, I think no change are needed for Vancian magic by looking at perk description(except intuitive magic and Vancian magic synergy), but I want to know it's interaction with vampire lord, do they show spell slot count left in vampire lord, or notify the lack of spell slot count after it reach 0?
Intuitive magic - making spell affected by intuitive magic not consume spell slot count would be nice
Amplified Lethality in alchemy - making it a passive like Alkahest would be nice, even a mere 5% poison resistance reduction on poisoned target would be good, can even remove the power from the clutter too in this way
Speak with animal - If making speak with animal not dying to enemy is such a necessity(I doubt it), it would be better to make it protected instead of essential instead and remove speak with animal power, so you can either activate the animal to free it like how activate it would make it companion, or kill it ourselves
Dwarven autocannon - I try to use it once, but the skill requirement for it are deceptively low, if I remember correctly after I took it and went to try smithing it, it require dwarven part that can only be found in dwarven area if I recalled correctly, which is highly unlikely for a starting character to ever be able to dwell into one of those, or locate it for the matter, especially for new player going through their first playthrough with Ordinator blind, if dwarven autocannon are truly meant to be late game, increasing skill requirement would help a lot like needing 50 instead of 20, if it's meant to be early game, recipe for dwarven scrap and part are probably necessary.
Light foot - it doesn't affect bear trap, I tried after I got hit by my own bear trap in an attempt to bypass it, I tried to look into vanilla game mechanic info for light foot, but I got conflicting info about it's application regarding bear trap. Anyway, if it's possible, an expand of light foot perk branch to include bear trap would be nice, and/or make it work like the mod named "Lightfoot Sneaking SE"
Smokescreen - Does it affect undead? I tried it once and undead still can track me in smoke, I suspect it might be a conflict with the mod "RAID" but I only used that smoke once on undead
Overall I think the design of this perk overhaul are fantastic for roleplaying, and a lot of those flaws in a perk tree are easily covered by other perk tree, like light armor fist perk, by picking two perk from the light armor tree, I can easily use fist with either no armor or heavy armor and still be able to progress as a boxer, or one handed rogue parry playstyle with block weapon bash perk tree giving practical reason for a one hand rogue no shield build.
I especially like conjuration skeleton army because It make me feel like a novice necromancer trying to research and master necromancy, the early inconvinience of it are precisely why it feel so good to progress necromancy as it get easier to utilize and control it, feel so good with the progression of it, though it's weird that I can harvest bone of human, but not their flesh and heart. I don't think conjuration need any change, and the same sentiment go for the rest of the perk tree, well other than those perk mentioned above, a lot of the unpopular gimmicky feature would be more popular if it can be toggle, like party starter. The serenade are pretty weird, even the vanilla Skyrim opposite sex speech buff are weird since Skyrim make same sex marriage possible, therefore implying all marriage candidate are bisexual, and possible other npc, how does the game know who to buff based on that is beyond me, but I'm fine with the current setting since the current setting make the most sense.
This is the only perk overhaul I used, and likely will ever use, best one for roleplay, which is why I play Skyrim in the first place
By the way, do autocannon have on/off switch? I didn't see it in the description, I think it's necessary to add the switch if it doesn't have a switch
Unarmed combat is inflexible due to where the perks are. Its a fun playstyle but a singular playstyle in a single skill tree. I'm going to list off perks and offer replacements and/or additions that give unarmed more of a presence in Ordinator.
Current: 20 Light Armor - Iron Fist (3) - Increases unarmed damage by 5/15/25% of your current Stamina, and you gain Light Armor experience when using unarmed attacks in combat. Requires two free hands. Possible: 20 Two-handed - Brawler - Increases unarmed damage by 10% of your current Health, and you gain Two-Handed experience when using unarmed attacks in combat. Requires two free hands. 20 One-Handed - Lone Fist - Increases unarmed damage by 10% of your current Stamina, and you gain One-Handed experience when using unarmed attacks in combat. 20 Alteration - Mage's Fist - Increases unarmed damage by 10% of your current Magicka, and you gain Alteration experience when using unarmed attacks in combat. Requires the use of a concentration spell 20 Enchanting - Enchanted Fingers - Increases unarmed damage by 10% of your current Magicka, and you gain Enchanting experience when using unarmed attacks in combat. Requires a staff. 20 Smithing - Dwemer's Grip - Increases unarmed damage by 10% of your current Health, and you gain Smithing experience when using unarmed attacks in combat. Requires a Dwarven Autocannon to be deployed.
Current: 40 Light Armor - Sweeping Wind - Unarmed power attacks do 25% more damage. Additionally, if your movement speed is increased, they do 2% damage per 1% movement speed. Requires two free hands. Possible: 40 Two-Handed - Boxing - Unarmed power attacks do 25% more damage. Additionally, if your movement speed is increased, they do 2% damage per 1% movement speed. Requires two free hands.
Current: 50 Light Armor - Rushing Tide - Unarmed attacks grant 10% increased Stamina regeneration and 5% movement speed for 8 seconds. This effect stacks. Requires two free hands. Possible: 40 One-Handed - Lone Wolf - Unarmed attacks grant 10% increased Stamina regeneration and 5% movement speed for 8 seconds. This effect stacks.
Current: 70 Light Armor - Hissing Dragon - You may choose a damage type (fire, frost, shock, poison, disease or sun). Unarmed attacks unleash a shockwave that deals the chosen damage type to all targets in front of you. Requires two free hands. Does not activate while sneaking. Possible: 40 Alteration - Runic Palm - You may choose a damage type (fire, frost, shock, poison, disease or sun). Unarmed attacks unleash a shockwave that deals the chosen damage type to all targets in front of you. Requires the use of a concentration spell. Does not activate while sneaking.
Current: 90 Light Armor - Breaking Waves - Unarmed attacks have 15% chance of a critical strike that deals critical damage equal to 40% of your current Stamina. If you are affected by Wardancer, every hit is a critical strike. Requires two free hands. Possible: 60 One-Handed - Five Finger Wolf Pack - Unarmed attacks have 15% chance of a critical strike that deals critical damage equal to 40% of your current Stamina. Gain 1% extra critical strike chance per 1% increased movement speed.
When the next update for Ordinator drops I hope there will be some additions or changes to unarmed combat. Even if no unarmed changes are planned, whatever you got lined up will probably still be blast to play. Thanks for the mod.
I tend to mix armor types together, Heavy and Light or Light and Clothes/Heavy and Clothes, I guess an off shoot for either heavy or light armor skills, or both, that lets you get certian bonuses from both trees whilst having "At least 2 bits of Light/heavy armor" on
"Protect your god" makes my allies do 10k+ damage, instead of 2,5 times. The other Illusionbuffs for allies seem to do what they say. Does anyone has similar problems?
My sabercat (fury/speak to animals) oneshotted alduin. :(
Help please, the Necromanticon perk doesn't work in the recovery branch (decomposition spells, death cloud, etc.). Or I just can't find them. They are not available at the Collette seller, nor in the magic section...But the mod is very good
Not bad, but i never liked vanilla timescale so i always use timescale 4, default is 20. So 5 times slower. Many skills have hours cooldown, even 60. Thats kinda pretty bad.
Some skills, especially on high level are extremely lame to be honest. Like pickpocket 100 to purchase a perk point? That should be like like level 30.
Is there a way to disable the knock down effect from perks like "The Pendulum" from the two-handed perk tree? The perk is OP.
Also for the perk "Out of the Inferno" under the Heavy Armor perk tree. The perk doesn't seem to show up in active effects tab. Is it supposed to be like that?
Found a compatibility issue with Sentinel - An Equipment Overhaul mod. Sentinel adds several new gear pieces that you can smith right from the start. The issue comes when you put a single perk point into the smithing tree. Suddenly all of the gear that the mod added disappears from the smithing window and you are unable to smith the equipment from then on since there are no "unlocking perks" in the tree for these new types of gear.
13495 comments
Due to time constraints and the sheer number of mods to keep track of, I may not be able to reply to all posts. The Enairim community can probably help you out faster!
Discuss this mod on /r/EnaiRim or the Enairim Discord
This in the context of a potential update.
Vastly prefer Vokrii's version of Lion's Arrow due to both better balance and the arcane archer build coming online earlier.
Other than that, I like the rest.
Necromancy seems oddly designed when compared to the rest of the reworked magic trees that all seem to greatly understand their class feel and goals while providing ways to empower them or spec into unique focuses.
Dislike:
I don't like having to choose between what kinds of equipment I can make in smithing, especially since I can't look at what those equipment pieces take and provide.
My point about not being able to make a wise decision because you can't preview the armors still stands. But I see now that you can use a second perk point to get the other.I'd really like a configuration option to not have to choose and just get both.
How would you turn them off otherwise?
If you never have to replace your skeletons, firstly they won't scale with you and therefore become useless, and secondly the whole feature becomes irrelevant after 20 minutes and you just make some skeletons once and forget about it.
This has been requested many times but Skyrim has a bug where minion buffs fall off when you go through a load screen.
Yes, that means the vanilla Dark Souls perk as well as most "permanent" reanimation perks in every other perk mod are actually broken and just as limited as the Ordinator ones, they just don't say so. There are very few exceptions and they use trickery to avoid the bug, but you can only do that with a small subset of possible effects.
If bound weapons do the same damage as crafted weapons, then smithing and enchanting are useless because bound weapons are much easier to get. They have to do less damage for balance, and that means they will never be competitive on damage. So instead they have other effects, such as reducing magic resistance and inflicting damage over time.
This has proven to be something people do not readily understand. They see a lower number in the text box and conclude bound weapons are useless. Actually, reducing magic resistance will benefit atronach damage, so this is the option you wanted for a dps summoner: use a bound weapon and hit them with it.
Also, minion level scaling is not the job of a perk overhaul, but a magic overhaul such as Odin, which it does.
Which is it?
I really love how the lightning spells work in your mod, especially seeing enemies jitter across the ground when they get electrocuted.
The two handed skill tree super fast swing perk is awesome when you can swing that f*#@ing zweihander 5x as fast.
I think that conjuration could use some more love, the conjure bone altar definitely made things more convenient but at a level 60 requirement its kinda eehhhh "do I really want to power level conjuration to get it", maybe a magic spell or power that just uses up the bones in your inventory could be used to summon a skeleton? I like the idea and the bound weapons are really great at where they're at.
Including an optional file that adds penalties to magicka (e.g. regen, cost, whatever) if wearing light or heavy armor (with heavy having the highest penalty) would be pretty cool.
Or if including penalties isn't your preference, maybe consider adding perks to the light armor tree that increase magicka regen/damage/whatever if wearing only light armor or unarmored clothes (with unarmored clothes having the higher benefits).
Would be amazing if you did this for Vokrii too!
Using SKSE means abandoning console players and makes every game update a risk. I can't count on Dynamic Activation Key getting updated for new game versions in perpetuity, so tying this mod to it seems like a liability.
Making mages wear light armor instead of heavy armor is not an improvement.
If Robe of the Magi, Geomancer and Energy Shield plus flesh spells are not good enough to encourage robes for DPS casters, then nothing is going to be good enough, specifically magicka regen, which already comes on robes in spades.
But these perks are not specifically in the light armor tree because robes are not light armor. Is it possible that you only looked in the light armor tree for robe perks?
It is funny to see two exact opposite requests in this thread, one saying there's no reason for mages not to wear heavy armor, the other saying heavy armor is not mage friendly enough.
Subjectively, as somebody who has played a lot of both Ordinator and Vokrii, I found that while playing Ordinator I miss some perks from Vokrii more than I miss some Ordinator perks while playing Vokrii. For example, I really like Vokrii's telekinesis perks and Destruction cloak perks. Vokrii also has something like "Sun's Judgement", but that one is double edged sword. And as I said before, Ordinator allows for highly specialized builds, but I feel like I need to take extra perk per level for making more fun hybrid builds, or that I like Vokrii's one perk mastery system more than Ordinator's two perks. That being said, I think magic scales better in Ordinator, I think some trees like Smithing and Alchemy (not to mention Conjuration and Illusion) are better done than Vokrii's and Ordinator's massive perk trees are best for actual roleplaying and making unique characters.
I feel like losing them because they do something stupid would feel a lot worse than losing them because the time runs out?
That's what the minion buff conc spells in Odin are for and people mostly complain about having to cast them. (Which is the whole point: you can't make pure minion builds viable if you can just add equally strong minions to every other build with no commitment beyond perk points. Minion builds have to have access to minion buffs that other builds don't.)
Cloaks that apply long term buffs have the same problem as passives in that the effect breaks on transition but the cloak doesn't immediately refresh it. The cloak has to tick rapidly to make sure the effect comes back quickly, and it seems each tick briefly removes the effect before reapplying it (much like how weapon hit perks will remove their effect before the hit lands and reapply it afterwards, so weapon hit perks that buff your damage like Denting/Crushing Blows need an awkward workaround). I don't know how long this gap is, but it seems to be more than one frame. So if you have like a damage increasing effect on your cloak, there's some number of attacks that occur between those events and don't get the damage buff.
The Vokrii solution does use a cloak, but it uses a cloak to apply a cloak because that's what that particular perk does: it gives minions a vampiric cloak. It syncs up so that the vampiric cloak turns off and on in between its own ticks and its own effect has a 1 second duration, so the gaps don't matter. If you want to apply anything other than a cloak, you'll have to deal with the strobing.
The other Vokrii perk
The other thing is that people today are obsessed with avoiding hidden cloaks (or "cloaked spells" or whatever else they think the term is) because putting OnHit() scripts on NPCs is bad practice and somehow this message got distorted into cloaks being bad practice because you can use cloaks to put OnHit() scripts on NPCs.
So now a mod having a cloak in it is a deal breaker for low information users regardless of what the cloak actually is for (see: Valravn).
Another thing would be the Autocannon. I really like the idea, especially for a melee built as a ranged option, but it is really hard to use. An extra could be something like a shoulder cannon. A late perk could change the Cannon from being stationary to floating near the player with the ability toggling the cannons instead of placing them. Another option could be to give the cannon auto aim, with potentially reduced damage / disabled aoe damge. This way they could give support fire without harming friendlies, but would do less damage as a downside.
Bedsides this just minor things. I personally like to play with custom races or use the less represented races which makes the kinship perk (speech) useless. could be changed to use the same sex instead of same race or be placed in a parallel path like Business relation. This way it would be equally useful for every race or at least it would be an optional perk that doesnt waste a perkpoint for this that only want the salesman perk.
The only thing that bothers me is when you Legendary Alchemy, you have no access to the Last Perk ''That which does not kill you'' anymore
That could've been such a good thing as an RP Alchemist and/or being able to get more extra perk points by achieving to get to 100 again
Would make mods like Dragon Souls for Perk Points in my opinion obsolete :3
This was a power in older versions but the game loses track of actors that aren't loaded and it resulted in you losing those skeletons at random.
Endlessly looping for infinite perk points and alchemy magnitude doesn't seem very balanced. I could make the bonus temporary, but then the perk points would have to go away.
There's a pickpocket perk for that.
Agreed - Ordinator is from 2015 and back then the Creation Club undead creation didn't exist yet (and neither did the spells from Apocalypse they allegedly copied to design their effects), so there were a lot fewer to go around. The bad news is that I'm pretty sure they also didn't keyword them properly so detecting them is going to be a problem.
Understood, but then Elemental Potency becomes a problem. I'll need to think about this.
Agreed, and anything to avoid getting dragged into the culture war is good.
A simple side note regarding the update you're considering.
I have nothing to add except that Necromancy, especially the Bone Collector path requires some rework. Others have said it many times, and if I were you I would roll my eyes saying "This again?" :)
So basically, there is nothing you don't already know. There needs to be a way to somehow bring back "bury/exhume" functionality, at least.
Regardless, I am sure however you decide to solve this is gonna great.
Oh, and Sneak. I didn't look at that one, but it might need it too.
for Heavy armor, rallying standard does not always have to bring out banner every time withdraw the weapon
For sneak also, please make tripwire power as a passive where you can set it up anytime.
Overall it is good, only these I brought up need to be fixed. Thank you.
The skeletons (and altars) is a way around this (finally tried them once ^^). The fact they are immortals is a HUGE progress, the first ones are still weak so it's not OP (and the "Make way power" is the solution to a "one-man-army" build stuck behind hitbox). It's a huge perk Investment, which is OK for a focused character, and we got solutions for it if you just want everything (patchs here or other mods, even only Shards of Skyrim). But the 13 bones part is a bit much. If you want to build 5-6 skeleton + buff them ... And keep a minimum "reserve" at hand, it's a huge part of the inventory (vanilla size) of a mage character.
The others summons are hard to use in comparaison ... The "too weak" part, again. Maybe different versions of the low lvl spells with more summons ? (Like, 1 wolf with skill lvl lower than 25-30, 2 wolf with skill around 35 / 45, and 3 wolf after 50 ?) Hard to balance with the max number of summons probably ... But it would make them less useless, without stats tweaks. A bit like what you tried to do with the summon Skeever perks ?
And you tried to "separate" the skeleton part from the others, but then the undead, which would be good additions for a necromancer build too, require to take a 2nd TONS of perks (many not useful ones) before access. Hard to balance with already a 3rd perk branch for Summons weapons, but maybe the undead branch should be more "middle ground" between the other summons and the skeletons ? So that a player could add some if he want, without being required to take every one of them. Or even fuse them (undead and skeleton branch), and make it possible for player to choose if we want to use zombie meshes, or skeleton ? Or give them different builds / use, so that we choose which one we want.
An alternative to the altar / 13 bones would be to add a power to transform the vanilla undead (so no rework needed there) as permanant summons (skeletal ones, or variant undead / draugr). This way the weight would be less annoying as it would become a "one time" goal, and not daily consumables that you need to keep around all the time. That way they could be upgraded too ? With perks and/or better materials.
The taming perk (speech skill) is great to use (keep the apparence of the animal tamed, which mods like Instincts do not), but ... "A bit" OP ^^' Even without the buffs. Tame one strong pet, and sit down looking at him wrecking the world. Here, the "only 1 perk point" requirement (2 with buff) could not be enough. The idea is a core for any tamer build (please, never remove), but few more perks could add a bit of missing balance, for type, size or lvl of animal tamable, or diverse buffs. Like the forge tree, instead of 1 specific buff "for all" (and so nothing for any modded animals without the right keywords), make the player able to choose the buffs used for the pet.
An exemple could be:
- Reducing the lvl of the first perk for taming the first animal (With a requirement ? Taming item ? Need to be half HP ? So we need to work a bit for a strong pet), then 20 lvl later a perk were player need to choose between two bonus (atk or armor/hp), then 20 lvl later another choice (between atk speed or move speed ?), then 20 lvl later ... And maybe even a 2 pets perk lvl 80 or 90 ? °°
If the player can't get the 2 bonuses (which would cost 2 perks points to do) we will get animals feeling a bit more focused on than "Press E once and forget". It will not be that costly perk point wise if we can only take 1 buff each time, but it's a STRONG tool anyway, so ... Kinda justified even if it cost more points, isn't it ?
Or one buff perk with 3-4-5 lvl, and every buffs in it. The player can take only one each time they take this perk, so they could at most only be able to take some of the buff from all the varieties available, and give priority to the one they like the most
(Optional requirement to move those perks out of the speech tree, or to enable the player to get speech exp from those interactions ? after fighting or as time/days pass)
Sadly this is the first time i tried to modify something to this degree, it's not that easy.
In my opinion i would change nova perk to also have a 20 sec effect on shock damage and i would change arc too 5 damage gets pretty irrelevant at higher level, it could be instead a portion of the damage dealt by the shock spell. In order to bring shock spells closer to the others.
Fire is especially the strongest element, no contest. Even if the theoretical output is similar the activation method of fire spells is more versatile than the other 2. And in my experience fire has just better damage modifiers.
Kind of wish there was a separate unarmed skill tree. Or maybe if Heavy Armor had an unarmed splinter that focuses on staggered attacks. For ex. a power punch with heavy armor that works similar to unrelenting force (but perhaps doesn't launch enemies so far lol). Maybe have a "concussion" debuff that reduces enemy melee attack speed or causes casters to misfire a spell.
Dislikes: Dislike is a strong word, but since I play with Realistic Damage, the directional power attack perks are rarely worth the trouble and I haven't taken them in years.
Commentary on the ongoing conversation:
Necromancy: Losing skeletons at random is less annoying than the problems that come from not having the ability to temporarily hide/dismiss them. Speaking from experience, since I use a mod that adds bury/exhume back. Simply note that this can happen on the perk and call it a feature, not a bug.
Conjuration Generally: Might be able to work around summon buffs dropping off by making them reapply on activating a summoned creature, similar to some of your other effects.
It is more annoying for me because it results in angry bug reports.
I like :
Roleplay possibilties, as investing on a few specific trees in mandatory and create more diverse fun builds.
The gameplay mechanic added. 1H Rogue parry, 2H Sideways that hit all target, Stimulant speed bonus, reflexes, free ward, you shall not pass, beartrap... Those add new way to be beter at the game and are much better that flat damage boost.
I dislike :
Some vokri perk would be so good here, espacialy to enhance the alchemy tree, Slow Metabolism and vokri's stimulant are way better.
EDIT : I found a mod tweak that change alchemy a bit more to my test :D
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/29079?tab=description
What sort of changes would you like to see?
Something like restricting the use to a single body type like amulets, & just removing the extra % bonus imo would be good. Alternatively extend the script to allow an option to destroy it, requiring some unique item & ritual, allowing you to create another.
I know this has been ongoing discussion forever but I still feel its an issue. Only other thing that bugs me is the gem dust pop up every time you visit an enchanter as many times you dont wish to use it or just wish to disenchant, maybe turning gem dust into a lesser power?
The only other thing which is more targeted as something that is generally difficult to implement, would be some conjuration perk that removes friendly damage to undead/summons, mainly spell attacks without making your summons immune to magic, or highly resistent.
As a seperate idea an Alteration perk either adding an additional or giving you a choice of a second seperate unique effect for each standing stone would be cool.
Conjuration maybe a power that adds a summonable merchant with 5000gold. Something also missing from the spell mods is a summonable pickaxe/woodaxe so maybe they could be merged into a perk.
Melee trees are great, but the improvements would be based on adding more combat abilities. Maybe something like Two hand, once per 10 minutes holding a power attack causes you to enter a whirlwind flurry attack 3 times as fast hitting everything around you in x radius.
As for the dislike :
Otherwise, love the mod - been using one way or another for years.
I really like the idea of the vancian magic system. I'm not sure how it would be expanded on, but I feel like it's handled really well with the spell slot system.
One thing I don't like:
I feel like skeletons can become way too overpowered to a certain extent and possibly scaling the power back a smidge on them could help balance them out a bit.
This is something I'm not sure about, but I noticed in Vokrii, the necromancy raise undead tree has synergy bonuses with both summoned and risen undead creatures. I never noticed if the bonuses to undead in Ordinator scale with summoned undead, but if it doesn't, adding bonuses for summoned undead creatures to scale with ordinator perks would be a nice QOL update to conjuration tree.
If you could make bound weapons more powerful, it'll be a really nice addition... I really like the bound bow, but even having all the perks related to it, and even archery perks, the bow just remains being weak in the late game. I hope you can give this a serious consideration, because bound weapons are always weak... either talking vanilla wise, or mod wise. x(
Your issue is script overload, not the perk. The perk has the same script load as vanilla Avoid Death.
If you can mix and match and get perks from both, then the correct play is to mix and match and get perks from both. This is unbalanceable.
The problem is that it is much easier to summon something than to reanimate it, so those perks would be much more powerful for summoned creatures than for reanimated ones...
Maybe I should just lift the entire summon tree from Vokrii.
Sure thing :)
Summons are almost impossible to balance because they scale with difficulty just like enemies. I made an attempt in Ordinator, but the difficulty scaling is unfixable.
How to change it, i know:
go to more quality but low nambes of you skeletons, and make them more sinergy by conjuration tree
Change category for skeleton from animal companion to permanent undead NPC
Changing creating skeletons, on Altar we have cargo where we dropping down all bones(and some other staff), each bone have their place on altar, if altar have each of different bones we will see full skeleton on altar, and than we can make ritual
Bone collector - you can make ritual for crieate skeleton, when you make it speng all you mana on it, where every 15 mana you spended your skeleton have 1 level
Skeletons can have sword, axe or blunt weapons
if we can add https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/517 we will change base skeletons
Ork will have 25 more HP and 20 armour (need Orc skull)
Argonian and Khajiit will have 10% faster (need cat or lizard skull and tail spinal)
Elf will more poverfull as mage 10% (need elf skull)
Skeleton nimble - requirements: conjuration 30, Bone collector - you can make skeleton with bow, spear or two daggers,
if you choose nimble variant - skeleton will have only 50% of base Armour but faster on 20%, every 20 mana you spended your nimble skeleton have 1 level
Dead tide perk - requirements: conjuration 30, Bone collector - adding nambers of it like every 30/20 conjuration for 1 skeleton
Bone Adept - requirements: conjuration 40, Dead tide - every 15 levels of skeleton they will change to improoved version (skeleton-minion, skeleton-champion and so on), you can choose version on altar. Each version of skeletons are better than before:
Minion will have baseHP 25+10*level and one iron weapon,
Warrior will have baseHP 50+10*level, 50 armour and two hand steel weapon,
Champion will have baseHP 75+10*level, 100 armour, shield and silvered weapon,
Master will have baseHP 100+10*level, 150 armour, shield and silvered weapon or two hand silvered weapon.
Barrow lord - requirements: conjuration 40, Dead tide - not changed but remove it from passing branch to blind brunch by side
Reap and sow - requirements: conjuration 40, Dead tide - remove it from passing branch to blind brunch by side, removing increasing existing time for skeletons
Skeleton mage - requirements: conjuration 50, Bone Adept - remove it from passing branch to brunch by side - you can make mages, and if they will high level they will use more powerful magic, and sometimes casting from two hands, they will need to spend alot more mana for level - 25 mana for 1 level
Necrome secrets - requirements: conjuration 60, Bone Adept - you can spend more bones or/and metall parts(maybe leather strips too) to improove creating skeleton (+75 base armour, +100HP)
Bone Expert - requirements: conjuration 60, Bone Adept - lower mana price for every skeleton level by 5
Conjure altar - removing from branch(why not conjure home or town?)
Fire Ritual - removing from branch(this was s#*! crutch)
Skeleton priest - requirements: conjuration 70, Skeleton mages - you now can create support skeleton with healing spells and alteration spells like invisible, and it will have necrotic aura who buffing damage on 20% and 150 armour of nearby friendly undead(you can have only one skeleton priest at time) it will need to spend alot more mana for level - 25 mana for 1 level
Bone Master - requirements: conjuration 80, Bone Expert - you created skeletons take less 25% damage
Cairn Skeletons - requirements: conjuration 80, Bone Expert - you can create Cairn variants of skeletons who more powerfull(they will have 20% more damage if normal, they will have 20% chance to criticall hit and 10% faster, if nimble, and they will have more power +20% and can cast from two hands )
Bone lord - requirements: conjuration 80, Necrome secrets - https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/76082 if add this, we can create one Bone lord who powerfull mage. You need to spend black soul gem and 4 hands for creating it. BaseHP 200+10*level, 100 armour
Puppet Master - requirements: conjuration 90, Bone Master - Your created Skeletons deal 25% more attack damage and their spells are 25% more powerful when you are channeling spell.
King of Bones - requirements: conjuration 100, Bone Master - Assume Control of a Skeleton while becoming invulnerable. The Skeleton does quadruple damage and takes half damage. Unless commanded to remain passive, it automatically attacks foes in range. Lasts up to 45 seconds.
Command work - requirements: conjuration 100, Bone Master - If you have at least one of each tipe Skeletons(Warrior, Nimble and Caster) they will deal more damage, 10% for each skeleton nearby
In defense of conjuration, it is a very close 2nd place favorite for me. Lookin' at you Bone Collector. Gives the whole necro-summoner thing entirely unique mechanics. For a good while I was perplexed by the non-cloth "Lead the Tempest" on a conceptual level. Then I had the death knight epiphany. Never looked back. I miss the "Bury/Exhume" option, but "Make Way..." does have its advantages.
Speaking of summoner/necromancy themes: I'd love to see a bridge from Crown of the False King to Master of the Mind. Subtle, yet prudent, if I may say.
Also~ I'm quite partial to those skills that get their own progression. "Wandering Warrior" being one, "Soul Raider" being another. Must be that extra layer that makes 'em interesting to me. Could do with more of that type of thing.
Anyhoo... an update of any sort sounds great.
Not only does it feel restrictive for unarmored or heavy armor brawlers, but light armor brawlers being able to improve both their offensive and defensive tree at the same time feels wrong.
I know the Vancian Magic perk is liked by many, but I'm not exactly a fan of it. It makes all Magicka related enchantments useless, and it allows melee builds to cast ANY spell they should have no business being able to cast.
Perks that take a percentage of NPC remaining health (Breach the Wall Perk) should be removed its not fun using an Iron Great Sword and nuking 40% of a dragons health in one power attack that probably one of my major complaints. Everything else seems rather fine to me cause I modded my game to make enemies be rather busted.
I have a VERY hard time to get anything worthwhile from it as it require you to stand right behind to get it to land any shots, cant hit a dragon or an ice atronach if I move away from it just a few meters
It also make it impossible to aim if an enemy goes behind it as it require you to look the opposite way for it to do a 180° turn, then keep "aiming" while turning your back to the enemy
If its doable then a rebalance (nerf) of its damage is warranted
Ability to deactivate some perks perhaps too (like an on/off power ?)
I dont like perks that adds a permanent drawback like the one that nullify your magicka regen but drain it from live entities near you to regen any
Or alchemy one that reduce your stats without a potion active but grants you double the difference if you do to name those i've seen
poison gameplay.
I think the mod could be expanded with a few perks in either the alchemy or stealth tree that make poisons more powerful
(in addition to the existing perks).
That includes perks that would simply increase the potency of damage poisons, or durations. My
creativity is limited atm but there is surely a lot to make poisons more
interesting and useful. Give me a reason to not just make Health Damage
and Paralyze poisons ':)
For example i am missing perks that make pickpocketing poisons into an enemys inventory viable. Poisons i
make deal at most 1/10 of the enemies HP. So a perk that would
drastically increase a poisons damage if its in the enemys pocket
wouldve been cool for that playstyle. And i think being able to
pickpocket poisons into the enemy shouldnt be locked behind a perk
point, or at least be very low in the tree.
The Amplify Lethality is a perk where i would have thought, from the name alone, is a perk
that makes poisons more useful, but what it does is giving you a lame
power. Yes, sorry, but reducing ONE targets poison resistance once PER
DAY doesnt seem that powerful considering how high up in the tree that
perk is. It seems even worse when you compare it with perks that have no
cooldown, like Laughing Ghost, which feels a bit too strong imo, even
for being a level 100 perk.
Another playstyle with poisons i wanted to try was with Frenzy poisions, but there is no perk that make
these better. Inducing frenzy via poison is just useless when it lasts
at most 10 seconds and has a low level restriction for targets. These
limitations are what im dissatisfied with the most.
Now, i have limited modding knowledge, so i dont know in what form my hopes for
expansion are beyond the mods scope of perk changes. Like, i could
imagine that there is some obscure reason for Frenzy poisions to scale
the way they do, and that this mod doesnt want to touch that scaling
system or whatever.
Maybe making poisons better would something for an entirely new mod anyways: Cyanide - Poisons of Skyrim ^^'
Edit: Forgot to add that i tried the Bear Traps too and they behave kinda wonky from my expirience. As in, they sometimes teleport to a completely different location than from where you droped it (happened multiple times where i droped one, wondered where it went, and further in the dungeon walked into it myself, killing me xD ). And a lot of times they dont damage the enemy that triggers them and it seemed to happen more often with the bigger traps... and im sorry, i know from a mod authors perspective that my description is pretty useless in sussing out potential bugs ^^'
Anyways, those were my thoughts for now. Thanks for making the mod. It gives me
the motivition to try multiple runs with a variety of interesting builds
in the future :D
Edit: ''Ocato's Spell Trigger: Stores the (beneficial self-targeted) spell in the left hand. Replicates it when entering combat within 30 minutes''
from Odin's spells could do the work i think, did't get the point yet to get the spell
Huge fan of this mod and have found workarounds for points both of these, specifically, because I want to play with it though!
Allow for "intuitive magic" spells to not count towards the spell slots (could even be renamed to "Cantrip")
I feel like with some tweaks vancian magic could qualify as enchantment tree skills. Make spell depletion result in a debuff that removes all base magicka but keep any that come from effects and enchantments (and maybe other penalties like making casting more expensive). This way magicka enchantments still have use. A new perk that allows you to replenish spells using soul gems when you cannot sleep.
If you use Circle of Strength + Atronach stone, you have infinite mana due to absorption ticks.
Such as having a Knowledge is Power... Power activate randomly on a swing without needing to swap to, say, Unrelenting Force for the useful ragdoll abilities. Or Dragonrend when fighting dragons. Could also alleviate a little bit of the situation where you have a passive, out-of-combat power selected (Pray, Spellscribe, Contingency) and not realizing until it attempts to proc.
I feel a majority of people are just gonna end up tying one power to Voice of Rage and Ruin when they use it anyway. But I can understand why having the ability to switch on the fly is good too. Just my thoughts on the subject. Maybe an option to have it as either a power or it's original functionality via a small patch or something, I dunno.
Can't wait to see what you bring to the future of this great mod.
Edit: Also wanted to suggest a small change to the unarmed branch of the Light Armor tree. Have Breaking Waves also trigger all crits on a Heavy Armor perk. I totally understand the direction for making it Light Armor-focused. But having an option for those who wanna break face and tank hits would be interesting. Whilst they aren't mutually exclusive, obviously, it does make Wardancer feel a bit necessary when running an unarmed Light Armor build just because of the larger damage increase. Maybe have the effect trigger under Rallying Standard or Defiance (might be a bit OP though?).
Just another suggestion and I can see a case being made for Light Armor = More damage for unarmed because you're giving up defense and relying on skillful dodges to make full use of the build rather than just face tanking and punching. But just thought I'd add it in there because you never know.
the scorched earth perk has only given me a problem in the galdur amulet quest when fighting the three brothers at the end, they had turned into piles of ash so couldn't do what they needed to do to progress the quest to the next stage and it softlocked.
other than that, enjoyed the diversity vs vanilla, thanks for a great mod!
It's currently very annoying.
I'm speaking about level 50 Restoration | Overflowing Cup - Receiving a healing spell or effect when you are already at full Health overheals you, fortifying Health by 1 point per level of Restoration for
20 seconds.
When activating the enchanting table the dialogue box pops up as intended however, when choosing "no" it cancels the enchanting session making it so I'm either forced to destroy a gem or not able to enchant at all. Is there a way around this or a fix?
Small nerf for balance purpose would be nice, calm refresh on target have very big chance
Hissing fist - toggle power for it too, but lock your choice of element once picked, sneaking disabled it yes, but being able to toggle it in my opinion feel much better
Bear trap - it seemingly affect every single bear trap in the game, stumbled upon this years ago in my playthrough, out at Whiterun region there's a camp with some enemy, was trying out bear trap build, the bear trap laid by enemy at that camp seemingly got buffed by bear trap perk damage. If my assumption is wrong, my bad, but if that's the case, I would like to have bear trap perk only affect specific bear trap build by the player, with different look compared to other bear trap. Dying by the hand of enemy's trap is fine, but not when those trap are somehow being amplified by player's perk choice. It discouraged new player from trying out bear trap
Cloak and dagger - if in your opinion it doesn't imbalance the gameplay difficulty, I would like for it to not have power attack as requirement in exchange for lower damage buff, if you think power attack requirement is necessary, I'll respect that design choice, the synergy with shadow warrior is good, but in combat speed is more important than damage, and shadow warrior only proc while in combat with enemy, it's easier to aim with regular attack with Valravn's weapon reach change than with power attack
Heavy armor perk tree - haven't tried out heavy armor because I'm a chicken in fight, but at a glance it seemingly encourage reckless and stupid behavior in combat, as it should be, but I want to know if Valravn's change are taken into consideration for heavy armor perk since Valravn encourage more tactical playstyle, especially against multiple enemy, I could think of blocking with heavy armor having no issue with this, but dual wielding with heavy armor, not so sure about that one
Unbreakable lockpick at level 100 lockpicking skill - the mod named "Broken Picks" alleviate a lot of the lockpicking gameplay issue with lockpicking, and I think unbreakable lockpick perk for it is the ultimate buff for a level 100 lockpicker, I like the seen this before perk, but if it's possible I would like to have unbreakable lockpick perk added back as additional perk (fun fact - ash spawn are considered automation by Skyrim, not sure if you know this, but I was shocked that the game even considered ash spawn as automation when I tried to activate it for some reason)
Trained rabbit - a suggestion to expand it's perk branch by having rabbit lowering NPC ability to detect sneaking target as distraction, and more from there
Throne of Nirn - add back as toggle power, a lot of the unpopular gimmicky perk aren't detrimental purely on it's quirk, but by the lack of ability to enable/disable it, I know perk can be removed via console, but it pull people out of immersion, the clutter of powers are inevitable in Skyrim even in base game, and if too many power is a concern for players, they could choose to not pick it, but a choice to toggle some perk would be fantastic.
Vancian magic - I wanted to try Vancian magic but haven't gotten around it due to my obsession with spell research(it make acquiring spell much more challenging, thus make it harder to level any magic skill in general), would try it after I got my spell progress going, I think no change are needed for Vancian magic by looking at perk description(except intuitive magic and Vancian magic synergy), but I want to know it's interaction with vampire lord, do they show spell slot count left in vampire lord, or notify the lack of spell slot count after it reach 0?
Intuitive magic - making spell affected by intuitive magic not consume spell slot count would be nice
Amplified Lethality in alchemy - making it a passive like Alkahest would be nice, even a mere 5% poison resistance reduction on poisoned target would be good, can even remove the power from the clutter too in this way
Speak with animal - If making speak with animal not dying to enemy is such a necessity(I doubt it), it would be better to make it protected instead of essential instead and remove speak with animal power, so you can either activate the animal to free it like how activate it would make it companion, or kill it ourselves
Dwarven autocannon - I try to use it once, but the skill requirement for it are deceptively low, if I remember correctly after I took it and went to try smithing it, it require dwarven part that can only be found in dwarven area if I recalled correctly, which is highly unlikely for a starting character to ever be able to dwell into one of those, or locate it for the matter, especially for new player going through their first playthrough with Ordinator blind, if dwarven autocannon are truly meant to be late game, increasing skill requirement would help a lot like needing 50 instead of 20, if it's meant to be early game, recipe for dwarven scrap and part are probably necessary.
Light foot - it doesn't affect bear trap, I tried after I got hit by my own bear trap in an attempt to bypass it, I tried to look into vanilla game mechanic info for light foot, but I got conflicting info about it's application regarding bear trap. Anyway, if it's possible, an expand of light foot perk branch to include bear trap would be nice, and/or make it work like the mod named "Lightfoot Sneaking SE"
Smokescreen - Does it affect undead? I tried it once and undead still can track me in smoke, I suspect it might be a conflict with the mod "RAID" but I only used that smoke once on undead
Overall I think the design of this perk overhaul are fantastic for roleplaying, and a lot of those flaws in a perk tree are easily covered by other perk tree, like light armor fist perk, by picking two perk from the light armor tree, I can easily use fist with either no armor or heavy armor and still be able to progress as a boxer, or one handed rogue parry playstyle with block weapon bash perk tree giving practical reason for a one hand rogue no shield build.
I especially like conjuration skeleton army because It make me feel like a novice necromancer trying to research and master necromancy, the early inconvinience of it are precisely why it feel so good to progress necromancy as it get easier to utilize and control it, feel so good with the progression of it, though it's weird that I can harvest bone of human, but not their flesh and heart. I don't think conjuration need any change, and the same sentiment go for the rest of the perk tree, well other than those perk mentioned above, a lot of the unpopular gimmicky feature would be more popular if it can be toggle, like party starter. The serenade are pretty weird, even the vanilla Skyrim opposite sex speech buff are weird since Skyrim make same sex marriage possible, therefore implying all marriage candidate are bisexual, and possible other npc, how does the game know who to buff based on that is beyond me, but I'm fine with the current setting since the current setting make the most sense.
This is the only perk overhaul I used, and likely will ever use, best one for roleplay, which is why I play Skyrim in the first place
By the way, do autocannon have on/off switch? I didn't see it in the description, I think it's necessary to add the switch if it doesn't have a switch
I'm going to list off perks and offer replacements and/or additions that give unarmed more of a presence in Ordinator.
Current:
20 Light Armor - Iron Fist (3) - Increases unarmed damage by 5/15/25% of your current Stamina, and you
gain Light Armor experience when using unarmed attacks in combat.
Requires two free hands.
Possible:
20 Two-handed - Brawler - Increases unarmed damage by 10% of your current Health, and you
gain Two-Handed experience when using unarmed attacks in combat.
Requires two free hands.
20 One-Handed - Lone Fist - Increases unarmed damage by 10% of your current Stamina, and you
gain One-Handed experience when using unarmed attacks in combat.
20 Alteration - Mage's Fist - Increases unarmed damage by 10% of your current Magicka, and you
gain Alteration experience when using unarmed attacks in combat.
Requires the use of a concentration spell
20 Enchanting - Enchanted Fingers - Increases unarmed damage by 10% of your current Magicka, and you
gain Enchanting experience when using unarmed attacks in combat.
Requires a staff.
20 Smithing - Dwemer's Grip - Increases unarmed damage by 10% of your current Health, and you
gain Smithing experience when using unarmed attacks in combat.
Requires a Dwarven Autocannon to be deployed.
Current:
40 Light Armor - Sweeping Wind - Unarmed power attacks do 25% more damage. Additionally, if your
movement speed is increased, they do 2% damage per 1% movement speed.
Requires two free hands.
Possible:
40 Two-Handed - Boxing - Unarmed power attacks do 25% more damage. Additionally, if your
movement speed is increased, they do 2% damage per 1% movement speed.
Requires two free hands.
Current:
50 Light Armor - Rushing Tide - Unarmed attacks grant 10% increased Stamina regeneration and 5%
movement speed for 8 seconds. This effect stacks. Requires two free
hands.
Possible:
40 One-Handed - Lone Wolf - Unarmed attacks grant 10% increased Stamina regeneration and 5%
movement speed for 8 seconds. This effect stacks.
Current:
70 Light Armor - Hissing Dragon - You may choose a damage type (fire, frost, shock, poison, disease or
sun). Unarmed attacks unleash a shockwave that deals the chosen damage
type to all targets in front of you. Requires two free hands. Does not
activate while sneaking.
Possible:
40 Alteration - Runic Palm - You may choose a damage type (fire, frost, shock, poison, disease or
sun). Unarmed attacks unleash a shockwave that deals the chosen damage
type to all targets in front of you. Requires the use of a concentration spell. Does not
activate while sneaking.
Current:
90 Light Armor - Breaking Waves - Unarmed attacks have 15% chance of a critical strike that deals
critical damage equal to 40% of your current Stamina. If you are
affected by Wardancer, every hit is a critical strike. Requires two free
hands.
Possible:
60 One-Handed - Five Finger Wolf Pack - Unarmed attacks have 15% chance of a critical strike that deals
critical damage equal to 40% of your current Stamina. Gain 1% extra critical strike chance per 1% increased movement speed.
When the next update for Ordinator drops I hope there will be some additions or changes to unarmed combat.
Even if no unarmed changes are planned, whatever you got lined up will probably still be blast to play.
Thanks for the mod.
I guess an off shoot for either heavy or light armor skills, or both, that lets you get certian bonuses from both trees whilst having "At least 2 bits of Light/heavy armor" on
My sabercat (fury/speak to animals) oneshotted alduin. :(
Many skills have hours cooldown, even 60.
Thats kinda pretty bad.
Some skills, especially on high level are extremely lame to be honest. Like pickpocket 100 to purchase a perk point? That should be like like level 30.
Also for the perk "Out of the Inferno" under the Heavy Armor perk tree. The perk doesn't seem to show up in active effects tab. Is it supposed to be like that?