Hi folks. What i need to mention is that it may take some time before the changes are baked into your save. Due to the way the engine works. No biggie, but it is nice to see the effect gradually spread through your game. Just be patient and you'll be rewarded ;-)
Hi, an issue i encountered myself is that SPID can't remove packages from a package-list. It can only add packages at certain positions. So if you use mods that also add packages, then you could comment the conflicting npcs out in the AI Overhaul_DISTR.ini file ;-)
Many modding guides recommend Mod Organizer 2. I use Vortex, and i'm actually quite happy with it. So simply keep using what you like.
If you encounter problems would you please describe according to S.T.E.P? Otherwise we would be stumbling in the dark.
Replaced v 2.2.1 by 2.3.1. This version should be fine. Ran around entire Skyrim. Checked markets and inns. Everybody behaves as they are supposed to ;-)
I really need your help. If I use AI Overhaul SPIDified and SkyPatcher, should I download the Cutting Room Floor patch, patch for RS Children, and patch from USMP.
I really want to start playing Skyrim, but I am stuck on this step of patching the AI Overhaul mod.
Hi, i don't use CRF. But if it adds new npcs then you would need an AI Overhaul patch for it. I don't use USMP either. If it adds new npcs you would need an AI Overhaul patch for it too. But i'm not sure it does add new npcs. You could check yourself. But the good news is that you won't need to patch RS Children, since our mods already takes care of them :-)
hey bro, you said that the majority AI overhaul patches will be redundant when install this mod but patches like for armors doesn't work and have to patch it manually, right? May I ask all AI overhaul patches for JK's mod will be redundant with this mod, right? Since most of my patches are for JK's
Hi. Sure, but keep in mind that our mods only applies to the same npcs as covered by AI Overhaul. But patches for AI Overhaul are supposed to be meant for these npcs. So, yes, you can be rid of those patches :-)
Hello. I'm still getting the bug with Adrianne's establishing scene (she spawns inside her house). I'm on latest version for both this mod and SPID and the WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene package isn't overwritten by any other mod.
Don't know if that's useful info, but I tried commenting out the line in DISTR file with said package and it somewhat helped. She would spawn in the right place for the scene to play out only to immediately walk away and do something else.
Well, I found a fix, if you could call it that. In DISTR file, I incremented indexes for Adrianne's packages by 1 and the establishing scene now works as intended.
I updated to v2.3.1 and sadly it still happens for me too.
When enter Whiterun for the first time, Idolaf starts a dialogue with Adrianne and she starts to walk away.
Same with Saffir and Amren too, both in Whiterun. Amren starts the dialogue and Saffir just goes away.
MrPootisBread, you changed the WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene package from 0 (DPLT - Default Package List) to 1 (SPOR - Spectator override package list) and it worked?
No, what I did is find the "Package = WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene||0x13BB9|||0" line in DISTR file and increase package index (number at the end) by 1. And then I did the same for every other package relating to Adrianne. However this breaks her weekends package from AI Overhaul and I haven't found a way to remedy that.
Also, in your case she at least spawns where she should. On my setup she would just spawn inside her store and completely miss the scene. This, combined with the lack of reports by other people leads me to believe there is some sort of mod conflict. DISTR file looks fine, there is no obvious reason for her establishing scene package to be overriden.
Hi, i'll have a look ;-) But in general: numbers determine sequence for packages, and types for formlists. The latter ranges from 0 to 4. But packages from 0 (zero) to number of packages minus 1.
Quote by PowerOfTree:
When adding a single package the indexnumber is the position in the list of packages - 1 When adding a fomlist the index number determines the type of package list Set default package list: Package = DefaultPackageListLinkedPatrol|||||0
Type can be one of the following:
# TypeNPC's Record in xEdit 0. Default Package ListDPLT - Default Package List 1. Spectator OverrideSPOR - Spectator override package list 2. Observe Corpse OverrideOCOR - Observe dead body override package list 3. Guard Warn OverrideGWOR - Guard warn override package list 4. Enter Combat OverrideECOR - Combat override package list
But we must take in consideration that changes, by the way skyrim's engine works, often aren't applied immediatately. Skyrim really doesn't like form changes. Hence the existence of tools like Save Unbaker and the like.
When you look at the code: ; AdrianneAvenicci "Adrianne Avenicci" [NPC_:00013BB9] Faction = AIOAdriannePlayerUseFaction||0x13BB9 Package = AIOFleeList||0x13BB9|||1 Package = AIOFleeCombat||0x13BB9|||4 Package = WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene||0x13BB9|||0 Package = AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11||0x13BB9|||1 Package = WhiterunAdrianneSandboxForgePackage6x11||0x13BB9|||2 Package = WhiterunAdrianneHouseSandbox||0x13BB9|||3 Package = WhiterunAdrianneSleep||0x13BB9|||4
You can see that WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene has the correct sequence number since it is the first package in the row. Therefor it should be 0. I suppose since this number was incorrect in older versions that it still lingers in your save, and that it would be a matter of time before it would be updated there. But in this case it is pretty annoying since it is the very first encounter between Adrienne and Idolaf ;-)
To be clear, I experienced this issue on a completely fresh playthrough with the latest version of your SPID file installed from the start. So I can confirm it’s at least still a problem on my end.
Thanx for testing. Honestly, i have no clue. Maybe you can check with xEdit whether there are other mods adding packages for Adrienne? Or there acts some weird script? I'll try myself by starting a new play-through ;-)
Hi, i started a couple of times over, but in my setup it works as a dream. No problems whatsoever. So i'm afraid there something in your setup taking the best of your game ;-) But nevertheless i remain curious about the cause in your case. I really don't want to say that my setup is the standard. Only that i am not able to reproduce the flaw ;-)
xEdit showed no conflict for Adrianne and her record wasn't referenced in anything that could change her AI packages. Maybe there was a conflict with some other DISTR file or maybe it's just SPID acting up idk.
I switched to plain AI Overhaul and everything works fine now. Didn't take as much time to patch as I thought it would.
Hi, good to hear you solved your problem. Sometimes we better pursue a practical solution ;-) I had comparable problems with Soltstheim for the Dunmer :-)
Hello, I tested your mod and i like your idea. I can confirm that, in my setup, the problem MRPootisBread talked about remain. If i use the SPID patch Adrianne is in the shop, if i get rid of it, she will be near Idolaf the first time i enter in Whiterun . How can we get rid of this please ? Removing her for the DISTR file?
Sure, you can simply comment her our in the AI Overhaul_distr.ini file. You probably already know, but you can comment a line out by putting ; in front of it ;-) In the original Skyrim there is another package executed at first which has been removed by AI Overhaul. But since SPID can't remove forms in general and packages in particular i simply moved that package to the ultimate end of the list. Maybe to simply thought in some cases LOL?
I restarted a couple times. Ran coc Whiterunoriginstraight from the main menu. My tests used these files.
AI Overhaul SPID (2.3.1) AI Overhaul SkyPatcher (1.2.1) non-scripted, AE Patched AI Overhaul Synthesis Patcher from AIOSkyPatcher's page. Synthesis output esp is at the very end of my load order. SPID 7.2.0-RC11 Skypatcher AE 3.7.2 Game version 1170
Adrianne and Idolaf indeed stand where they are supposed to be, given that's where they are placed in the CK editor. Idolaf has their correct scene package (WhiterunIdolafEstablishingScene). Adrianne is assigned the correct one as well (WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene). However, the moment I approached her proximity, which is when the two should begin talking, her package switched to AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11. On a previous test, they didn't even begin talking with each other, with Adrianne simply switching out of her correct initial package, walking away, and the two stuck mute.
Mallemok, if you are unable to replicate the issue, which SPID version are you using? Can you replicate the issue if you version-matched my setup?
- SPID 7.2.0 RC11 - AI Overhaul 1.8.6 SE (no CC, scripted) - SkyPatcher 3.7.0 SE - AI Overhaul SSE SkyPatcher Patch 1.2.1 (Special Edition, scripted) - Synthesis AIOverhaul Patch (and Forked AI-Overhaul-Patcher from the Skypatcher patch) - Game Version 1.5.97
I took a look at Synthesis.esp in xEdit and the sequence of the packages to both Adrianne and Idolaf are correct:
- WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene is package #0 - WhiterunIdolafEstablishingScene is package #0 (same sequence in Synthesis.esp and the DISTR.ini file)
If i run just the Synthesis patch, without the AIO SPID and SkyPatcher mods, when i enter whiterun, Idolaf starts the dialog with Adrianne and she stays in place (the package WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene stays with her) until the dialog between both finishes (and then switches normally to AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11, the #1 in Synthesis.esp and ini file, or the second package on the list)
If run both the AIO SPID and SkyPatcher mods, and Synthesis patcher after, Idolaf starts the dialog with Adrianne and she starts walking away, switching her package immediately to AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11.
Same with Saffir and Amren too (Amren starts the dialogue and Saffir just walks away before the conversation between them finishes):
- WhiterunSaffirScenePositionPackage is package #0 - WhiterunAmrenScenePositionPackage is package #0 (same sequence in Synthesis.esp and the DISTR.ini file)
Thing is, I don't have a clue why they switch to the next package even before the first one finishes.
I have Alternate Perspective, so i've tested using this cenario:
- Started a new game, created my character and waited a bit in the starter room (to finish loading all mods) - Used "coc whiterunstables" to load in a interior cell of the whiterun stables - Walked to the front gates of Whiterun and entered the city - As I approached Adrianne and Idolaf, the aforementioned problem occured
I've tried downgrade SPID to 7.1.3, SkyPatcher to 3.6.7, AI Overhaul 1.8.6 SE (non-scripted), AI Overhaul SSE SkyPatcher Patch 1.2.1 (Special Edition, non-scripted), and the same thing happens.
So, i'm just running only the Synthesis patcher for now, as the sequence switches correctly.
I'm using this setup: AI Overhaul SSE SkyPatcher Patch 1.0.0 AI Overhaul SPID 2.3.1 AI Overhaul 1.8.6 AE Scripted SPID 7.2.0 RC 11 SKSE 2.2.6 Skyrim AE v 1170 SkyPatcher - AE 3.7.0
But i had restored the original AI Overhaul esp. Since it shouldn't hurt in the first place and i don't like to tinker with other ones mods ;-) But i suspect it does make a difference in this case since AI Overhaul removes the package WhiterunAdrianneCityWalk from Adrianne's set. While my mod can only move it to the last position, since SPID can't remove packages. Could it be that it then still causes trouble?
But i see some differences with your setups, so i will conform to these where possible. But i will stick to AE 1170 if you don't mind. It costed me a day hard work to get it working properly ;-)
@mallemok please use sincerity's own esp, see if the issue occurs with their plugin.
On my end, since I'm using the non-scripted version, the esp completely overwrites the AI Overhaul SE install, rendering it useless. So I don't have the original AI Overhaul installed at all.
@Pixellz Just in case, you should delete the original AI Overhaul synthesis patch. Sincerity implies their forked version overwrites the original. If we take their word, running both is just redundancy or may cause some unexpected conflicts.
Adrianne now directly starts running away during the discussion with Idolaf. Performing the package AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11 according inspection by consoleutil. But while walking away she proceeds with her conversation with Idolaf. It looks like WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene wasn't executed somehow, or properly finished. Although it's really there in the code. But i can't get to her fast enough to see whether that's the case. But i will switch back to the AI Overhaul original esp to see what happens then.
Uninstalled AI Overhaul, Ai Overhaul Spidified and AI Overhaul SkyPatcher
Created new character
Made a save right at the main entrance of Whiterun
first tryouts at sundas
Use this as basic setup for further experiments
exp 1:
install AI Overhaul non scripted
create Adrianna.esp (esl) with the AI Overhaul records of Adrianne and Idolaf. in order to prevent being overwritten by other mods
start Skyrim and enter Whiterun
result: Adrianne and Idolaf have a normal conversation. when looking at active package of Adrianne by consoleutil i see "WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene". Adrianne finishes conversation first and then walks away by package "AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11"
exp 2:
install AI Overhaul non scripted
install Ai Overhaul Spidified
start Skyrim and enter Whiterun
result: Adrianne walks away while having converation with Idolaf. when looking at active package directly after entrance i only see a FF0029f8 or the like instead of "WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene". after Adrianne walking away before she finishes conversation this changes into "AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11"
exp 3:
install AI Overhaul non scripted
install Ai Overhaul Spidified
changed the edids of the packages of Adrianne into form id's:
Package = 0xCC853||0x13BB9|||0 Package = 0x194B~AI Overhaul.esp||0x13BB9|||1 Package = 0x37CBE||0x13BB9|||2 Package = 0x914DF||0x13BB9|||3 Package = 0x37CC0||0x13BB9|||4result: same as exp 2
result: scene runs as it should. Adrianne starts with package "WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene", finish her conversation and switches then to "AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11"
exp 5: as exp 4 but now at morndas result: scene runs as it should. Adrianne starts with package "WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene", finish her conversation and switches then to "WhiterunAdrianneSandboxForgePackage6x11"
exp 6:
install AI Overhaul 1.8.6 AE Scripted
install AI Overhaul SPID 2.3.1
install AI Overhaul SSE SkyPatcher Patch 1.2.1 scripted
enter Whiterun
result: scene runs as it should. Adrianne starts with package "WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene", finish her conversation and switches then to "WhiterunAdrianneSandboxForgePackage6x11"
Apparently AI Overhaul SPID needs the scripted version of AI Overhaul to function properly. Weird. I'll do a bit more research and may then ask Sasnikol if he has any idea what's going on ;-)
For exp. 6, did you run the Synthesis Patcher to patch the rest of the incompatibilities? And did you use the replacer plugin I provided. I used the exact same setup, and yet the issue still occurs on my end.
Hi i don't use SkyPatcher. My idea was to keep things as simple as possible. Yes, i did overwrite it with your esp. And checked that by xEdit ;-) This is the base i use:
Skyrim AE v 1170
SKSE 2.2.6
SPID 7.2.0 RC 11
If people are keeping having problems then we've to find out why an old, well known vanilla package isn't executed properly. It apparently looks like that. I'm going to create a totally bare setup contaning only the involved mods. But that is a huge job so it will take some time.
While working towards a bare setup i had switched off a bunch of mods, this time the mods by Simon Magus.
Created a new character and entered Whiterun.
Adrianne now walked away while talking with Idolaf.
I enabled Pilgrim again and created a new character.
After entering Whiterun again i went to Adrienne and Idolaf .
This time Adrienne waited till the conversation between her and Idolaf has been finished.
I repeated this procedure a couple of times.
Each time Pilgrim was enabled before character creation the bug disappeared. Enabling Pilgrim after character creation left the bug in existence. Testing with the scripted and non-scripted AI Overhaul didn't have effect. Somehow Pilgrim - A Religion Overhaul magically made the bug vanish. But only when enabled before character creation. I'm curious whether you could reproduce this effect ;-)
I tested now in a more structured way using a matrix:
The numbers before the hyphen is the number of tests, the second number the number of succeeded scenes. Since a test has to deal with several parameters at once, the numbers do overlap. For instance the number of tests for non-scripted AI Overhaul combined with Pilgrim consists of tests on Sundas and Morndas. 5 non-scripted Pilgrim tests from sundas and 5 non-scripted Pilgrim tests from morndas ;-) Which makes 10 in total. The same principle applies to the other numbers.
Doing the tests before today i simply overlooked the significance of the day of week. It's now clear that the problem is related to the AI Overhaul package AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11 since it only occurs when it's weekend. I can't solve this problem since it looks like it has something to do with the interaction between the packages from AI Overhaul and SPID. I suppose that this could be solved by a cooperation of SpiderAkira and Sasnikol ;-)
Not sure why but on the latest version, my NPCs are all just leaving their cities or towns. E.g. I start a new character in Riverwood, everyone is leaving Riverwood on the road to Whiterun. I enter Whiterun and lots of NPCs are walking in a congo line to leave the city.
Using both AI Overhaul Skypatched, Synthesis AI Overhaul Patcher and this mod together. Removing this mod solved the issue on a new character. Also did not have this issue on the previous version.
same. the entire college of winterhold is wandering somewhere off toward the center of skyrim, inns are empty, presumably because all NPCs left. version 2.3 super broken.
Hahaha, it was so creepy when I saw this happening after updating this mod. A long line of NPCs wandering out of Whiterun towards something, like a calling making them zombies. Glad it's not my game that was broken, but this mod.
Oh. Is this why literally all of Windhelm Docks came to Solstheim with me?
Also, literally my first visit to Solstheim, and there were three dragons attacking Raven Rock during the cutscene on the boat. But that can't be caused by this mod right? XD
Excuse me, I have already used AI Overhaul Synthesis.Can I still use this (AI Overhaul SSE SPID Patch) along with AI Overhaul Skypatcher?Thanks for your response!
Hi, i suppose it's very well possible. But whether it makes sense depends on the version of the Syntesis patch. For an older and less complete one it might, for one that's up to date it probably doesn't ;-)
If we use this SPID mod, would it do anything wrong to still keep the AI Overhaul patches we've been using in our load order? I'd load this mod after those other patches to make sure this one is being used. But otherwise, other patches would just be redundant--but not break anything. Right?
I suppose you are right. This doesn't touch other features than packages and a few factions. The looks and inventories aren't touched. So you should be safe. Other patches can remain in place, but keep in mind those may cause trouble when installing other mods. Best is to make a list of those and remove before starting a new play through. But do check whether the npcs in those patches are covered by AI Overhaul SPID Patch ;-) To make it easier, these are the same as the ones in AI Overhaul. Using xEdit ( SSEdit ) you can easily check whether that's the case in your situation.
Hi, probably to some extend. But i used the latest version, v 1.8.6, for this. Older version may have different and /or different named packages ;-) So better stick to the most recent version.
Oh I guess that’s why sometimes they did weird stuff hahaha like Gerdur running into her house or Idolaf talking with Adriane but she was inside her house hahaha. Well, thanks! I’ll be back if I update to the latest Skyrim version
On a new save from Live Another Life, starting in Whiterun Player Home, come out, Idolaf is talking to thin air while Adrianne is inside of the Blacksmith. Using both SPID and Skypatcher.
Went back to Synthesis patcher and it fixed the problem.
Found the flaw, wrong sequence number for Adrienne. Thanx again :-) Will be part of next update, together with more attention for sequences. Which means more complete package lists to prevent problems like this.
Hi, you need to find out whether these patches applies to npcs covered by ai overhaul or not. But you must understand i can't check all available patches in the world. The easiest way is to do it yourself: use xEdit (SSEdit) and check in a glimse if you see their records in both AI Overhaul and the mod that needed to be patched, RSChildren for example. I can say in general that this mod only forwards the behavior packages and factions introduced by AI Overhaul, and nothing else. So you will still need patches for armor etc. And of course for mods that introduce new npcs, like many new land mods, CRF etc. Mods changing vanilla npcs are usually covered by our mods. AI Overhaul SSE SkyPatcher Patch also forwards items, flags and stat changes from AI Overhaul. Using both AI Overhaul SPID Patch and AI Overhaul SSE SkyPatcher Patch will make a lot of patches redundant ;-) The good news is that redundancy by our mods doesn't matter either :-)
Hey I saw this linked to the AI Overhaul comment section. I appreciate the time you took to do this. The concerns with a SPID AIO besides the current limitations is how other mods that also use SPID to deliver AI will work. I'm not 100% if both changes stay or if the last file "wins" over the conflict everytime. Do you have to include both changes from AI mods in one distri file?
You will also have to stay on top of updates that add new packages from AIO. It's possible and will take a bit of time but we can use only the AIO packages in a .esp(fe) on it's own and with additional regional packages designed for different types of NPCs (Civilians, Guards, Farmers, Etc). That way you can add AIO packages/behaviors to other NPCs that apply to them while they happen to be in those regions.
Hi, your concerns are actually mine too. Therefor i'm right now working on a new version. Where the ECOR and SPOR packages also are only distributed to individual npc's ;-) I actually left the hope that we can safely distribute AI Overhaul packages to entire groups and individual npc's in a single distribution file. Distributing to entire groups is more for a different scope type of mod. Something like the good old Run for your lives mod and the like.
Individual npcs are a different story. I'm afraid that we then beter make a choice which packages we will use: the AI Overhaul ones or the other set. It would be very time consuming to decide package by package what to use, or in what sequence in order to create a coherent outcome. I learned from the SPID-documentation that SPID-mods are processed according their alphabetical order. So when SPID-mods affect the same npc's and fields only the last one in that order will prevail.
Your last question about regional dependency, according to the description of SPID that doesn't seem too difficult. That would be nice. But as usual the devil hides in the details no doubt ;-) To make it more responsive to real time circumstances then we would need some scripting to, in combination with some quest. But i'm not so very familiar with this type of modding ;-) But if you are we could combine esp's for foundation with the magic of SPID for the distribution part? I do remember a mod that actually worked for this idea, related to outfits (Dynamic Outfits). But it stranded by scripting overload. So we would probably need to find a solution for this. A dll?
The main reason to create this mod is to diminish the role of the load-order of mods, what causes the need for many patches which each need to be maintained. With tools like SPID that becomes much easier and safer. Despite the limitations ;-) Right now i'm also working on a mod wich uses Skypatcher instead of SPID, since it has some particular possibilities.
By the way, chapeau for creating a mod that's still relevant after all these years :-)
Thanks for the info. I don't have much experience with those tools and finally had some time to get into working with them. By the looks of it you already done everything SPID can do currently.
I can see why a script update is required while playing. I think a simple update at the end of the day or every 3 days will work. Any extra NPCs with scripts like carrying objects will need some extra work too...The general idea I had was to make use of the keywords and try to have a master random package set for "off hours" of NPCs. It would be just one package for all of Skyrim that is conditioned in a way that works for the different regions. That way you don't have to worry about scripts
We discovered some potential .dll fixes/solutions from working on Skyblivion so after that is done and released I have some mods planned for both Skyrim/Skyblivion.
Yes, i suppose that SPID reached its limits. It was an exhaustive job, but someone got to do it ;-) Nice, you're of course way more experienced with the use of packages than i am. Looks like a fine way to ease the script burden for poor Skyrim ;-) And it would be easier to distribute them to the proper npc's. Something completely different. Since you mentioned Skyblivion. Can Skyblivion be played by the Skyrim SSE engine, or are there plans to port it for that?
Hi SpiderAkira, i think it's well worth to look at this mod: RMB SPIDified - Regional Keyword Framework This mod looks like the exact instrument to support your ideas :-)
195 comments
Just be patient and you'll be rewarded ;-)
Hi, an issue i encountered myself is that SPID can't remove packages from a package-list. It can only add packages at certain positions. So if you use mods that also add packages, then you could comment the conflicting npcs out in the AI Overhaul_DISTR.ini file ;-)
Many modding guides recommend Mod Organizer 2. I use Vortex, and i'm actually quite happy with it. So simply keep using what you like.
If you encounter problems would you please describe according to S.T.E.P? Otherwise we would be stumbling in the dark.
Link for S.T.E.P.
More brief guide at Nexus: SKYRIM SE CTD FIX GUIDE
Thanx folks for the warning :-)
I really need your help. If I use AI Overhaul SPIDified and SkyPatcher, should I download the Cutting Room Floor patch, patch for RS Children, and patch from USMP.
I really want to start playing Skyrim, but I am stuck on this step of patching the AI Overhaul mod.
But the good news is that you won't need to patch RS Children, since our mods already takes care of them :-)
Don't know if that's useful info, but I tried commenting out the line in DISTR file with said package and it somewhat helped. She would spawn in the right place for the scene to play out only to immediately walk away and do something else.
Any ideas on how to fix this?
Does SPID not like zeroes? I don't even know.
When enter Whiterun for the first time, Idolaf starts a dialogue with Adrianne and she starts to walk away.
Same with Saffir and Amren too, both in Whiterun. Amren starts the dialogue and Saffir just goes away.
MrPootisBread, you changed the WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene package from 0 (DPLT - Default Package List) to 1 (SPOR - Spectator override package list) and it worked?
Also, in your case she at least spawns where she should. On my setup she would just spawn inside her store and completely miss the scene. This, combined with the lack of reports by other people leads me to believe there is some sort of mod conflict. DISTR file looks fine, there is no obvious reason for her establishing scene package to be overriden.
But in general: numbers determine sequence for packages, and types for formlists. The latter ranges from 0 to 4. But packages from 0 (zero) to number of packages minus 1.
Quote by PowerOfTree:
When adding a single package the indexnumber is the position in the list of packages - 1
When adding a fomlist the index number determines the type of package list
Set default package list:
Package = DefaultPackageListLinkedPatrol|||||0
Type can be one of the following:
# TypeNPC's Record in xEdit
0. Default Package ListDPLT - Default Package List
1. Spectator OverrideSPOR - Spectator override package list
2. Observe Corpse OverrideOCOR - Observe dead body override package list
3. Guard Warn OverrideGWOR - Guard warn override package list
4. Enter Combat OverrideECOR - Combat override package list
But we must take in consideration that changes, by the way skyrim's engine works, often aren't applied immediatately. Skyrim really doesn't like form changes. Hence the existence of tools like Save Unbaker and the like.
When you look at the code:
; AdrianneAvenicci "Adrianne Avenicci" [NPC_:00013BB9]
Faction = AIOAdriannePlayerUseFaction||0x13BB9
Package = AIOFleeList||0x13BB9|||1
Package = AIOFleeCombat||0x13BB9|||4
Package = WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene||0x13BB9|||0
Package = AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11||0x13BB9|||1
Package = WhiterunAdrianneSandboxForgePackage6x11||0x13BB9|||2
Package = WhiterunAdrianneHouseSandbox||0x13BB9|||3
Package = WhiterunAdrianneSleep||0x13BB9|||4
You can see that WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene has the correct sequence number since it is the first package in the row. Therefor it should be 0. I suppose since this number was incorrect in older versions that it still lingers in your save, and that it would be a matter of time before it would be updated there. But in this case it is pretty annoying since it is the very first encounter between Adrienne and Idolaf ;-)
I'll try myself by starting a new play-through ;-)
So i'm afraid there something in your setup taking the best of your game ;-)
But nevertheless i remain curious about the cause in your case. I really don't want to say that my setup is the standard. Only that i am not able to reproduce the flaw ;-)
I switched to plain AI Overhaul and everything works fine now. Didn't take as much time to patch as I thought it would.
I had comparable problems with Soltstheim for the Dunmer :-)
In the original Skyrim there is another package executed at first which has been removed by AI Overhaul. But since SPID can't remove forms in general and packages in particular i simply moved that package to the ultimate end of the list. Maybe to simply thought in some cases LOL?
coc Whiterunoriginstraight from the main menu. My tests used these files.AI Overhaul SPID (2.3.1)
AI Overhaul SkyPatcher (1.2.1) non-scripted, AE
Patched AI Overhaul Synthesis Patcher from AIOSkyPatcher's page. Synthesis output esp is at the very end of my load order.
SPID 7.2.0-RC11
Skypatcher AE 3.7.2
Game version 1170
Adrianne and Idolaf indeed stand where they are supposed to be, given that's where they are placed in the CK editor. Idolaf has their correct scene package (WhiterunIdolafEstablishingScene). Adrianne is assigned the correct one as well (WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene). However, the moment I approached her proximity, which is when the two should begin talking, her package switched to AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11. On a previous test, they didn't even begin talking with each other, with Adrianne simply switching out of her correct initial package, walking away, and the two stuck mute.
Mallemok, if you are unable to replicate the issue, which SPID version are you using? Can you replicate the issue if you version-matched my setup?
- SPID 7.2.0 RC11
- AI Overhaul 1.8.6 SE (no CC, scripted)
- SkyPatcher 3.7.0 SE
- AI Overhaul SSE SkyPatcher Patch 1.2.1 (Special Edition, scripted)
- Synthesis AIOverhaul Patch (and Forked AI-Overhaul-Patcher from the Skypatcher patch)
- Game Version 1.5.97
I took a look at Synthesis.esp in xEdit and the sequence of the packages to both Adrianne and Idolaf are correct:
- WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene is package #0
- WhiterunIdolafEstablishingScene is package #0
(same sequence in Synthesis.esp and the DISTR.ini file)
If i run just the Synthesis patch, without the AIO SPID and SkyPatcher mods, when i enter whiterun, Idolaf starts the dialog with Adrianne and she stays in place (the package WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene stays with her) until the dialog between both finishes (and then switches normally to AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11, the #1 in Synthesis.esp and ini file, or the second package on the list)
If run both the AIO SPID and SkyPatcher mods, and Synthesis patcher after, Idolaf starts the dialog with Adrianne and she starts walking away, switching her package immediately to AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11.
Same with Saffir and Amren too (Amren starts the dialogue and Saffir just walks away before the conversation between them finishes):
- WhiterunSaffirScenePositionPackage is package #0
- WhiterunAmrenScenePositionPackage is package #0
(same sequence in Synthesis.esp and the DISTR.ini file)
Thing is, I don't have a clue why they switch to the next package even before the first one finishes.
I have Alternate Perspective, so i've tested using this cenario:
- Started a new game, created my character and waited a bit in the starter room (to finish loading all mods)
- Used "coc whiterunstables" to load in a interior cell of the whiterun stables
- Walked to the front gates of Whiterun and entered the city
- As I approached Adrianne and Idolaf, the aforementioned problem occured
I've tried downgrade SPID to 7.1.3, SkyPatcher to 3.6.7, AI Overhaul 1.8.6 SE (non-scripted), AI Overhaul SSE SkyPatcher Patch 1.2.1 (Special Edition, non-scripted), and the same thing happens.
So, i'm just running only the Synthesis patcher for now, as the sequence switches correctly.
I'm using this setup:
AI Overhaul SSE SkyPatcher Patch 1.0.0
AI Overhaul SPID 2.3.1
AI Overhaul 1.8.6 AE Scripted
SPID 7.2.0 RC 11
SKSE 2.2.6
Skyrim AE v 1170
SkyPatcher - AE 3.7.0
But i had restored the original AI Overhaul esp. Since it shouldn't hurt in the first place and i don't like to tinker with other ones mods ;-) But i suspect it does make a difference in this case since AI Overhaul removes the package WhiterunAdrianneCityWalk from Adrianne's set. While my mod can only move it to the last position, since SPID can't remove packages. Could it be that it then still causes trouble?
But i see some differences with your setups, so i will conform to these where possible. But i will stick to AE 1170 if you don't mind. It costed me a day hard work to get it working properly ;-)
On my end, since I'm using the non-scripted version, the esp completely overwrites the AI Overhaul SE install, rendering it useless. So I don't have the original AI Overhaul installed at all.
@Pixellz Just in case, you should delete the original AI Overhaul synthesis patch. Sincerity implies their forked version overwrites the original. If we take their word, running both is just redundancy or may cause some unexpected conflicts.
This is what i did install now:
Skyrim AE v 1170
SKSE 2.2.6
SPID 7.2.0 RC 11
SkyPatcher - AE 3.7.0
AI Overhaul 1.8.6 AE Non Scripted
AI Overhaul SPID 2.3.1
AI Overhaul SSE SkyPatcher Patch 1.2.1 non scripted
Adrianne now directly starts running away during the discussion with Idolaf. Performing the package AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11 according inspection by consoleutil.
But while walking away she proceeds with her conversation with Idolaf.
It looks like WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene wasn't executed somehow, or properly finished. Although it's really there in the code.
But i can't get to her fast enough to see whether that's the case.
But i will switch back to the AI Overhaul original esp to see what happens then.
- Uninstalled AI Overhaul, Ai Overhaul Spidified and AI Overhaul SkyPatcher
- Created new character
- Made a save right at the main entrance of Whiterun
- first tryouts at sundas
Use this as basic setup for further experimentsexp 1:
- install AI Overhaul non scripted
- create Adrianna.esp (esl) with the AI Overhaul records of Adrianne and Idolaf. in order to prevent being overwritten by other mods
- start Skyrim and enter Whiterun
- result: Adrianne and Idolaf have a normal conversation. when looking at active package of Adrianne by consoleutil i see "WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene". Adrianne finishes conversation first and then walks away by package "AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11"
exp 2:exp 3:
Package = 0xCC853||0x13BB9|||0result: same as exp 2Package = 0x194B~AI Overhaul.esp||0x13BB9|||1
Package = 0x37CBE||0x13BB9|||2
Package = 0x914DF||0x13BB9|||3
Package = 0x37CC0||0x13BB9|||4
More to come ;-)
exp 5:
as exp 4 but now at morndas
result: scene runs as it should. Adrianne starts with package "WhiterunAdrianneEstablishingScene", finish her conversation and switches then to "WhiterunAdrianneSandboxForgePackage6x11"
exp 6:
Apparently AI Overhaul SPID needs the scripted version of AI Overhaul to function properly. Weird. I'll do a bit more research and may then ask Sasnikol if he has any idea what's going on ;-)
I used the exact same setup, and yet the issue still occurs on my end.
This is the base i use:
- Skyrim AE v 1170
- SKSE 2.2.6
- SPID 7.2.0 RC 11
If people are keeping having problems then we've to find out why an old, well known vanilla package isn't executed properly. It apparently looks like that. I'm going to create a totally bare setup contaning only the involved mods. But that is a huge job so it will take some time.
- While working towards a bare setup i had switched off a bunch of mods, this time the mods by Simon Magus.
- Created a new character and entered Whiterun.
- Adrianne now walked away while talking with Idolaf.
- I enabled Pilgrim again and created a new character.
- After entering Whiterun again i went to Adrienne and Idolaf .
- This time Adrienne waited till the conversation between her and Idolaf has been finished.
- I repeated this procedure a couple of times.
Each time Pilgrim was enabled before character creation the bug disappeared. Enabling Pilgrim after character creation left the bug in existence.Testing with the scripted and non-scripted AI Overhaul didn't have effect.
Somehow Pilgrim - A Religion Overhaul magically made the bug vanish. But only when enabled before character creation.
I'm curious whether you could reproduce this effect ;-)
Did you follow the same procedure?
The numbers before the hyphen is the number of tests, the second number the number of succeeded scenes.
Since a test has to deal with several parameters at once, the numbers do overlap. For instance the number of tests for non-scripted AI Overhaul combined with Pilgrim consists of tests on Sundas and Morndas. 5 non-scripted Pilgrim tests from sundas and 5 non-scripted Pilgrim tests from morndas ;-) Which makes 10 in total. The same principle applies to the other numbers.
Not Scripted Scripted SundasMorndasPilgimNo Pilgrim
Not Scriptedxx 10-010-1010-510-5
Scriptedxx 10-010-1010-510-5
Sundas10-010-0 x x10-010-0
Morndas 10-1010-10x x10-1010-10
Pilgim10-5 10-510-010-10 x x
No Pilgrim10-5 10-510-010-10 x x
Doing the tests before today i simply overlooked the significance of the day of week. It's now clear that the problem is related to the AI Overhaul package AIOWRAdrianneWeekends6x11 since it only occurs when it's weekend.
I can't solve this problem since it looks like it has something to do with the interaction between the packages from AI Overhaul and SPID.
I suppose that this could be solved by a cooperation of SpiderAkira and Sasnikol ;-)
I hope this is just incidental ...
Hi folks, last night i actually made a bugreport for SPID so Sasnikol can shine his light on this ;-)
Thanx for your efforts :-)
Using both AI Overhaul Skypatched, Synthesis AI Overhaul Patcher and this mod together. Removing this mod solved the issue on a new character. Also did not have this issue on the previous version.
Also, literally my first visit to Solstheim, and there were three dragons attacking Raven Rock during the cutscene on the boat. But that can't be caused by this mod right? XD
But do check whether the npcs in those patches are covered by AI Overhaul SPID Patch ;-)
To make it easier, these are the same as the ones in AI Overhaul. Using xEdit ( SSEdit ) you can easily check whether that's the case in your situation.
Does this work no matter the version of AI Overhaul?
Went back to Synthesis patcher and it fixed the problem.
Will be part of next update, together with more attention for sequences. Which means more complete package lists to prevent problems like this.
that means that patches as:
ElderOutfit - AI Overhaul.esp (installed by remodeled armor)
RSChildren-Patch-IWI-SD.esp
USMP-AI Overhaul.esp
and any patch like “AI-Overhaul”
can be eliminated?
But you must understand i can't check all available patches in the world. The easiest way is to do it yourself: use xEdit (SSEdit) and check in a glimse if you see their records in both AI Overhaul and the mod that needed to be patched, RSChildren for example.
I can say in general that this mod only forwards the behavior packages and factions introduced by AI Overhaul, and nothing else. So you will still need patches for armor etc.
And of course for mods that introduce new npcs, like many new land mods, CRF etc.
Mods changing vanilla npcs are usually covered by our mods.
AI Overhaul SSE SkyPatcher Patch also forwards items, flags and stat changes from AI Overhaul. Using both AI Overhaul SPID Patch and AI Overhaul SSE SkyPatcher Patch will make a lot of patches redundant ;-)
The good news is that redundancy by our mods doesn't matter either :-)
You will also have to stay on top of updates that add new packages from AIO. It's possible and will take a bit of time but we can use only the AIO packages in a .esp(fe) on it's own and with additional regional packages designed for different types of NPCs (Civilians, Guards, Farmers, Etc). That way you can add AIO packages/behaviors to other NPCs that apply to them while they happen to be in those regions.
I actually left the hope that we can safely distribute AI Overhaul packages to entire groups and individual npc's in a single distribution file. Distributing to entire groups is more for a different scope type of mod. Something like the good old Run for your lives mod and the like.
Individual npcs are a different story. I'm afraid that we then beter make a choice which packages we will use: the AI Overhaul ones or the other set. It would be very time consuming to decide package by package what to use, or in what sequence in order to create a coherent outcome.
I learned from the SPID-documentation that SPID-mods are processed according their alphabetical order. So when SPID-mods affect the same npc's and fields only the last one in that order will prevail.
Your last question about regional dependency, according to the description of SPID that doesn't seem too difficult. That would be nice. But as usual the devil hides in the details no doubt ;-) To make it more responsive to real time circumstances then we would need some scripting to, in combination with some quest. But i'm not so very familiar with this type of modding ;-) But if you are we could combine esp's for foundation with the magic of SPID for the distribution part?
I do remember a mod that actually worked for this idea, related to outfits (Dynamic Outfits). But it stranded by scripting overload. So we would probably need to find a solution for this. A dll?
The main reason to create this mod is to diminish the role of the load-order of mods, what causes the need for many patches which each need to be maintained. With tools like SPID that becomes much easier and safer. Despite the limitations ;-)
Right now i'm also working on a mod wich uses Skypatcher instead of SPID, since it has some particular possibilities.
By the way, chapeau for creating a mod that's still relevant after all these years :-)
I can see why a script update is required while playing. I think a simple update at the end of the day or every 3 days will work. Any extra NPCs with scripts like carrying objects will need some extra work too...The general idea I had was to make use of the keywords and try to have a master random package set for "off hours" of NPCs. It would be just one package for all of Skyrim that is conditioned in a way that works for the different regions. That way you don't have to worry about scripts
We discovered some potential .dll fixes/solutions from working on Skyblivion so after that is done and released I have some mods planned for both Skyrim/Skyblivion.
Nice, you're of course way more experienced with the use of packages than i am. Looks like a fine way to ease the script burden for poor Skyrim ;-) And it would be easier to distribute them to the proper npc's.
Something completely different. Since you mentioned Skyblivion. Can Skyblivion be played by the Skyrim SSE engine, or are there plans to port it for that?
This mod looks like the exact instrument to support your ideas :-)