A new Vokrii version (1.1) is out that is compatible with Vokrii versions 3.0.0 and higher. Players that are using an older version of Vokrii can still download Vokrii version 1.0 of Scaled Two-Handed Attack Speed. All other versions remain at 1.0, because they were working before and still are.
To-do: an Adamant version, as per request by user cheemers.
I love the concept for the mod, but after installing and using it for about 30 minutes it has seemingly bricked my save. My attack speed was noticeably faster which is good, now it's 2x faster than vanilla speed and I'm swinging two handed weapons faster than one handed swords. Not exactly sure what happened but I'm using the vanilla version and I have no other mods that affect combat and no mods in general that would be conflicting with this one.
After uninstalling, the issue has continued to persist and now my character is permanently swinging two-handed weapons 2x faster making any two-handed attacks ridiculously over powered. Is there a fix for this?
This is strange behaviour indeed. I can only assume that, contrary to your assessment, there must be some weird interaction with another mod. This mod's effect on the Barbarian perk works similarly to the vanilla perk Dual Flurry, uses absolutely no scripting, and I have triple checked the perk conditions again just now and cannot find any problem there. Plus I cannot replicate this behaviour at all.
As for the fix, make sure your character is in a state in which he/she has no attack speed affecting magic effects active, such as Elemental Fury or Dual Flurry while holding two one-handed weapons, or Hunger from Survival Mode. Then open the console (~ key on English keyboards by default) and type the following:player.setav weaponspeedmult 0 This should reset your weapon speed multiplier actor value to normal.
Thanks for the reply! I think survival mode is what was affecting it. My mod list consists of only texture mods and armor mods, I don't usually like to install mods that change the core game.
I found through testing that as my character got hungrier the attack speed increased. After eating however, my two-handed swing speed would be reset back to its initial value. This was definitely a weird behavior but I'm certain I don't have any other mods that affect combat, unless there's a conflict between this mod and another CC mod? I'm not sure.
The root problem is the jank inherent in the attack speed calculation. Attack speed is stored as an actor value (weaponspeedmult) that is multiplied to the weapon's base speed to determine the actual attack speed. Or in other words, the actor value determines how fast the attack animation is played. A value of 1.0 is normal attack speed, anything below is slower, anything above is faster. That part is totally reasonable.
But then they went and effed up that system royally by making an exception for a value of 0.0, which is ALSO normal speed. And of course, actors have 0.0 as their base weaponspeedmult value, not 1.0. So in order to get an attack speed increase of x% , you must add 1.0 + 0.01 x , and to get a slowdown by x%, you must add 1.0 - 0.01 x. But then when you have two attack speed modifiers, the base value of 1 is added separately for each of them, because they stack additively. So even if a y% debuff is applied on top of an x% buff, it still adds to the total speed because the total speed at that point is (200 + x - y)%, which is somewhat close to double attack speed if the values of x and y are similar in magnitude.
This is the whole reason stuff like Attack Speed Framework exists, to fix the issue by giving actors a base value of 1.0 and subtracting 1.0 from every buff and debuff. So I guess I will have to either build in a workaround that detects Hunger explicitly or at least edit the description of the mod to indicate that the non-ASF version of the mod does not work as intended in Survival mode. Either way, thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Any change you could make a version with less speed for ordinators perk? Or maybe check if setting the two handed skill to legendary would affect in something, cause my char already have 2 legendary levels and he's hitting so much fast.
I really appreciate the effort you made to have some sort of progression with the mod. And, even more so, I appreciate the detailed description on which version to pick and so on. Oh how I miss that with some other mods.
Unfortunately though, having my two handed skill below 20 currently and having just picked this perk, my attack speed is WAY too fast. I'm not talking about "balance" here, I mean that it is abnormally fast, even a bit faster than swinging a dagger would be. I can swing like two times per second. Using the ordinator version, ofc with ordinator installed. Problem persists even after uninstalling. Loading a previous save (before taking the first 2H perk) set the speed to normal again (normal without the mod). Skyrim 1.5.97, downgraded from AE, attack speed framework installed.
Not sure if it is safe but it is easy to convert it to an esl. Basically you would have to do the following:
1.Have xEdit or SSE Edit setup through Mod Organizer (If you use MO2) 2.Open xEdit and select the plugin. 3.Right click on the plugin and select to compress the Form IDs. 4.Open the header and look for "Record Flags", double click and select Edit. 5.Select ESL, save the file and you should be good to go.
Hello, I am a Mod Author for Skyrim on Xbox and I was wondering If I could include this mod into a mod pack that i'm working on. Including this into a mod pack helps console players negate the 150/150 mod limit. I will give credit and link back to your nexus profile page as well. I hope this message finds you well! :)
Hello, sorry for the late reply, it's been a busy season. :) By all means, go ahead. Just please tell your users that I will not be able to playtest the version of this mod that they are going to use and subsequently also not be able to verify or fix any XBox-version-specific bugs, if any should emerge. But you have my blessing and support to make any bugfix-related edits to the mod pack version yourself, if needed.
Any word on that new Ordinator patch? I'm also getting 2x attack speed. I'm not using Attack Speed Framework, but I am using Customize Weapon Speed and Weapon Speed Mult Fix.
The problem with this is that attack speed is just jankily done in Vanilla Skyrim. At the time I originally made this mod, ONLY ASF existed to address this issue. Now we also have CWS and WSMF which you mentioned, and possibly quite a few ones I haven't even heard of, and they all do this differently. One option I have at this point would be to create one version of S2HAS for each possible combination of weapon speed fix mods and perk overhaul mods. The amount of versions I would have to make would be an exponential function of the number of mods involved and thus a nightmare to test properly and curate, so I am not going to do it. I guess I will eventually go with the other option, which is to research how exactly those mods work, figure out which single mod or combination does the job the cleanest way, then just add this mod or combination of mods as a hard requirement for S2HAS, so I'll only need one version for each perk overhaul. Weapon Speed Mult Fix looks the most promising, but unfortunately the mod description page doesn't go into a lot of detail on how exactly it implements the fix. Does it just change magnitudes in vanilla records from +1.X to +0.X attack speed and leave it to modders to do this correctly for their own effect magnitudes? Does it just expect an offset of +1 on each attack speed changing effect and so effectively expect modders to do it the wrong way on purpose? I would have to do some testing to find this out and rewrite my mod properly, but currently I don't have a lot of time for this, so it'll still take a while. I hope you understand.
It is written on the page (and through some comments) how this mod has its take on the weapon speed issue.
There are 2 parameters concurring in the weapon speed issue: BaseActorValue and the ActorValue of WeaponSpeedMult. In my findings, you need to have these 2 values be the same, so both have to be 1.0. This is because if you equip one weapon and have a perk active ( or a spell) that changes the ActorValue but not the BaseActorValue which has to stay always 1.0. You can compare these 2 values when unarmed.
When my mod runs, you unequip your weapons, and the BaseActorValue and the ActorValue are checked and both are restored to 1.0. The check happens in 2 instances: 1st time you activate the mod ( so there is no trace of scripts in your save), then any time you want from the MCM menu so it doesn't interfere with other mods running during the gameplay.
Why I have chosen this way: in the MCM menu you can always check the current values of BaseActorValue and ActorValue (for both hands) and if you have other mods like Ordinator changing values due to perks or other stuff, you can keep an eye and see if you have weird numbers that don't match your calculation. If you notice any issue just unequip your weapons, go to the MCM menu and reset the values to 1.0.
NOTE: Ordinator and many other mods don't change the BaseActorValue and the perks are active only when you have a weapon equipped. That's why my mod is able to support different mods with no issue related as it does the check only when no perks or spells are active.
ONLY issue I have found is with Beth Survival Mod: if you are peckish or have any other condition, my mod cannot fix it. I have created a small patch to adjust the survival mod to not touch the weaponspeedmult parameter and I have used other disadvantages when the hunger factor changes.
I hope this explanation will help you with your mod. If you need any other info just drop me a message here in NEXUS.
Thank you for that explanation, Emanwe. As far as I can tell, your mod does two things:
Set the base actor value to 1 and adjust perks accordingly so that they add their proper increase instead of 1 + their proper increase, which means several different attack speed altering perks can stack properly (the same fix that ASF tries to do).
Provide a mechanism to reset the actor value and base actor value to default values in case they somehow get messed up by careless mid-save mod-switching or other shenanigans. This is the unique part about your mod.
You have provided a wonderful explanation for functionality 2, but what I am really interested in is how you implement functionality 1. On your mod description page, you write:
?With my fix, you will have a BASEAV of 1.00, DUAL FLURRY at 0.35, and ELEMENTAL FURY at 0.50 for a total of 1.85 as expected.
How do you achieve that? Do you just edit the specific records for those vanilla perks and subtract 1 from the magnitudes?
Oh, I didn't think that part will need more explanation as it is quite simple and straightforward.
So yes, the values are changed in the records from 1.35 to 0.35, for example.
It's a fixed change so no checks or scripts working on it.
It will be, maybe, an idea to implement a check to see if someone is using a weaponspeedmult of 0.0 or 1.0 and adjust the perks accordingly, just I didn't want to add another script ( so other records in the save game) as no one has reported so far the necessity of that kind of approach.
Sorry for the late reply, work has been busy the last days.
Thanks again for the explanation. My problem with this simple, change-vanilla-records-only approach is that it multiplies the number of versions of any other mod that adds attack speed changes by two, because any version now needs to have a sub-version for mods like yours that fix attack speed stacking and one sub-version for broken vanilla attack speed stacking, with the only difference being +/-1 magnitude for any Weapon Speed Mult actor value altering effect. And any mod like mine which works off existing perks already needs one version for every supported perk overhaul. So now I need to make 2n versions, where n is the amount of supported perk overhaul mods. So this quickly becomes a hassle to playtest and debug.
The other possibility of course is to add either Weapon Speed Mult Fix or Attack Speed Framework or any other mod that goes the vanilla record change route as a hard requirement, and tell people they have to learn xEdit and adjust the values thermselves if they insist on having broken vanilla attack speed stacking. I think I am going to eventually go that route, and then I think Weapon Speed Mult Fix is currently the cleanest and most comfortable implementation of that idea, so I will probably add that as a requirement. I think any scripted solutions are probably going to create more problems than they solve.
Hi. Idk if you'll see this but can I get permission to have this uploaded to xbox(I can't do it myself as I lack the tools to do so. But I could have someone on the subreddit do it if I could get your permission, please and thanks).
Sorry for the late reply. Permission granted, IF you/whoever is going to port this will
credit me and mention Nexus somewhere in there so people know where to find the author,
add a disclaimer that I, the mod author, take absolutely zero responsibility for the console port,
explicitly tell people using the console port not to come crying to me here if anything goes wrong. :)
I know it sounds stupid, but my reason is that I really don't want to have to deal with complaints from people using a version of the mod that I cannot test myself. I hope you understand.
I think the original slow weapon speed is unbalanced and boring. YMMV. I wish there was an easy way to give this to NPCs without heavy and potentially lag-inducing scripting, but there really isn't, so I won't. So yeah, it is unbalanced that the player can have this and NPCs cannot, but then again, most NPCs can't shout either, so that's just kinda how the game is, anyway.
105 comments
To-do: an Adamant version, as per request by user cheemers.
I love the concept for the mod, but after installing and using it for about 30 minutes it has seemingly bricked my save. My attack speed was noticeably faster which is good, now it's 2x faster than vanilla speed and I'm swinging two handed weapons faster than one handed swords. Not exactly sure what happened but I'm using the vanilla version and I have no other mods that affect combat and no mods in general that would be conflicting with this one.
After uninstalling, the issue has continued to persist and now my character is permanently swinging two-handed weapons 2x faster making any two-handed attacks ridiculously over powered. Is there a fix for this?
As for the fix, make sure your character is in a state in which he/she has no attack speed affecting magic effects active, such as Elemental Fury or Dual Flurry while holding two one-handed weapons, or Hunger from Survival Mode. Then open the console (~ key on English keyboards by default) and type the following:
player.setav weaponspeedmult 0
This should reset your weapon speed multiplier actor value to normal.I found through testing that as my character got hungrier the attack speed increased. After eating however, my two-handed swing speed would be reset back to its initial value. This was definitely a weird behavior but I'm certain I don't have any other mods that affect combat, unless there's a conflict between this mod and another CC mod? I'm not sure.
But then they went and effed up that system royally by making an exception for a value of 0.0, which is ALSO normal speed. And of course, actors have 0.0 as their base weaponspeedmult value, not 1.0. So in order to get an attack speed increase of x% , you must add 1.0 + 0.01 x , and to get a slowdown by x%, you must add 1.0 - 0.01 x. But then when you have two attack speed modifiers, the base value of 1 is added separately for each of them, because they stack additively. So even if a y% debuff is applied on top of an x% buff, it still adds to the total speed because the total speed at that point is (200 + x - y)%, which is somewhat close to double attack speed if the values of x and y are similar in magnitude.
This is the whole reason stuff like Attack Speed Framework exists, to fix the issue by giving actors a base value of 1.0 and subtracting 1.0 from every buff and debuff. So I guess I will have to either build in a workaround that detects Hunger explicitly or at least edit the description of the mod to indicate that the non-ASF version of the mod does not work as intended in Survival mode. Either way, thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Unfortunately though, having my two handed skill below 20 currently and having just picked this perk, my attack speed is WAY too fast. I'm not talking about "balance" here, I mean that it is abnormally fast, even a bit faster than swinging a dagger would be. I can swing like two times per second. Using the ordinator version, ofc with ordinator installed. Problem persists even after uninstalling. Loading a previous save (before taking the first 2H perk) set the speed to normal again (normal without the mod). Skyrim 1.5.97, downgraded from AE, attack speed framework installed.
Also, can one make do an ESPFE conversion in xEdit, or is the CK required?
1.Have xEdit or SSE Edit setup through Mod Organizer (If you use MO2)
2.Open xEdit and select the plugin.
3.Right click on the plugin and select to compress the Form IDs.
4.Open the header and look for "Record Flags", double click and select Edit.
5.Select ESL, save the file and you should be good to go.
sorry for the late reply, it's been a busy season. :)
By all means, go ahead. Just please tell your users that I will not be able to playtest the version of this mod that they are going to use and subsequently also not be able to verify or fix any XBox-version-specific bugs, if any should emerge. But you have my blessing and support to make any bugfix-related edits to the mod pack version yourself, if needed.
I guess I will eventually go with the other option, which is to research how exactly those mods work, figure out which single mod or combination does the job the cleanest way, then just add this mod or combination of mods as a hard requirement for S2HAS, so I'll only need one version for each perk overhaul.
Weapon Speed Mult Fix looks the most promising, but unfortunately the mod description page doesn't go into a lot of detail on how exactly it implements the fix. Does it just change magnitudes in vanilla records from +1.X to +0.X attack speed and leave it to modders to do this correctly for their own effect magnitudes? Does it just expect an offset of +1 on each attack speed changing effect and so effectively expect modders to do it the wrong way on purpose? I would have to do some testing to find this out and rewrite my mod properly, but currently I don't have a lot of time for this, so it'll still take a while. I hope you understand.
It is written on the page (and through some comments) how this mod has its take on the weapon speed issue.
There are 2 parameters concurring in the weapon speed issue: BaseActorValue and the ActorValue of WeaponSpeedMult.
In my findings, you need to have these 2 values be the same, so both have to be 1.0.
This is because if you equip one weapon and have a perk active ( or a spell) that changes the ActorValue but not the BaseActorValue which has to stay always 1.0.
You can compare these 2 values when unarmed.
When my mod runs, you unequip your weapons, and the BaseActorValue and the ActorValue are checked and both are restored to 1.0.
The check happens in 2 instances: 1st time you activate the mod ( so there is no trace of scripts in your save), then any time you want from the MCM menu so it doesn't interfere with other mods running during the gameplay.
Why I have chosen this way: in the MCM menu you can always check the current values of BaseActorValue and ActorValue (for both hands) and if you have other mods like Ordinator changing values due to perks or other stuff, you can keep an eye and see if you have weird numbers that don't match your calculation.
If you notice any issue just unequip your weapons, go to the MCM menu and reset the values to 1.0.
NOTE: Ordinator and many other mods don't change the BaseActorValue and the perks are active only when you have a weapon equipped.
That's why my mod is able to support different mods with no issue related as it does the check only when no perks or spells are active.
ONLY issue I have found is with Beth Survival Mod: if you are peckish or have any other condition, my mod cannot fix it. I have created a small patch to adjust the survival mod to not touch the weaponspeedmult parameter and I have used other disadvantages when the hunger factor changes.
I hope this explanation will help you with your mod.
If you need any other info just drop me a message here in NEXUS.
- Set the base actor value to 1 and adjust perks accordingly so that they add their proper increase instead of 1 + their proper increase, which means several different attack speed altering perks can stack properly (the same fix that ASF tries to do).
- Provide a mechanism to reset the actor value and base actor value to default values in case they somehow get messed up by careless mid-save mod-switching or other shenanigans. This is the unique part about your mod.
You have provided a wonderful explanation for functionality 2, but what I am really interested in is how you implement functionality 1. On your mod description page, you write:So yes, the values are changed in the records from 1.35 to 0.35, for example.
It's a fixed change so no checks or scripts working on it.
It will be, maybe, an idea to implement a check to see if someone is using a weaponspeedmult of 0.0 or 1.0 and adjust the perks accordingly, just I didn't want to add another script ( so other records in the save game) as no one has reported so far the necessity of that kind of approach.
Thanks again for the explanation. My problem with this simple, change-vanilla-records-only approach is that it multiplies the number of versions of any other mod that adds attack speed changes by two, because any version now needs to have a sub-version for mods like yours that fix attack speed stacking and one sub-version for broken vanilla attack speed stacking, with the only difference being +/-1 magnitude for any Weapon Speed Mult actor value altering effect. And any mod like mine which works off existing perks already needs one version for every supported perk overhaul. So now I need to make 2n versions, where n is the amount of supported perk overhaul mods. So this quickly becomes a hassle to playtest and debug.
The other possibility of course is to add either Weapon Speed Mult Fix or Attack Speed Framework or any other mod that goes the vanilla record change route as a hard requirement, and tell people they have to learn xEdit and adjust the values thermselves if they insist on having broken vanilla attack speed stacking. I think I am going to eventually go that route, and then I think Weapon Speed Mult Fix is currently the cleanest and most comfortable implementation of that idea, so I will probably add that as a requirement. I think any scripted solutions are probably going to create more problems than they solve.
- credit me and mention Nexus somewhere in there so people know where to find the author,
- add a disclaimer that I, the mod author, take absolutely zero responsibility for the console port,
- explicitly tell people using the console port not to come crying to me here if anything goes wrong. :)
I know it sounds stupid, but my reason is that I really don't want to have to deal with complaints from people using a version of the mod that I cannot test myself. I hope you understand.