I am a bit confused by the implementation. In this plugin vs Ordinator I just see the spell magnitude in this is 9 vs the Ordinator is 1000. and the description is different. But the spell effect itself doesn't seem modified?
This affects the vancian magic perk effect. Ordinator implmented it by draining 1000 magicka per second or soemthing similar. Presumably i reduced it to 9 magicka a second.
Hi! Thank you for making this mod! I'm having an issue and I don't thin it's working on my save. I can fully replenish my magicka with potions, but still can't use any spells whatsoever after I've run out of my 20 spells because my entire magicka drains in seconds--much less time than it should with this mod. Any clue what's going on?
Thanks!
Here's my load order using LOOT in MO2: Ordinator SWI Ordinator Patch Ordinator Vancian Mage Improved
put my mod at the bottom of your load order, to ensure their are no other mods loading after that overwrite it. It's not scripted so load order should be obeyed.it also shouldnt cause issues with any other mods, because it only touches this one spell/magic effect. Theres also a chance that enai updated ordinator, changing how this perk works.
Glad i stumbled upon this, i encountered something that almost softlocked me when playing using vancian magic. I had to do the 'heat and cool' mechanic in the mage's guild questline, but i was out of spells and had no staves with frostbite or flames on them, which the quest specifically requires, no other frost spell will properly activate the bloody thing.
I ended up using 'additem menu' to give myself the appropriate staves, but if i had this, i'd have been able to chug down a magica pot and progress normally. Definitely putting this in as an essential part of ordinator.
Yeh thats exactly the kind of thing that annoyed me. Sure we could spend and hour getting back out of the dungeon and traveling to each court wizard until we found the staves we needed, but thts not fun. Hope you enjoy it!
20 free spell casts. Can be great for a martial character that hasn't invested in magicka. For a mage character they can still use 0 cost spells once slots are gone.
But yes i mostly agree, the use case for spell slots is very situational.
vancian magic is actually one of the most powerful perks a mage can have, but it does require you to plan your playstyle around it.
I think there's two main types of vancian playstyles, broad and focused (mid is pretty... eh). I'll refer to them respectively as Broadian and Focusian.
Broadian gives any character 30 free spells. it does not matter level, it does not matter cost, it does not matter skill level. if it has a mana cost, you can spam it. this means completely non-mage characters can suddenly start slinging spells. for instance, this allows any thief/assassin to cast Invisibility on demand, utilizing their meager 100 magicka and thief-oriented gear. it's not just being able to cast these spells, its being able to spam them. a vancian assassin can go invisible, sneak attack, immediately go invisible, and repeat the process THIRTY TIMES without so much as a break to recharge magicka. Broadian mages meanwhile can be ridiculous. high skill levels and perks that benefit dual casting allow you to do otherwise unsustainable spell combos. vancian mage characters are possibly among the most devastating builds I've ever come up with for Ordinator. dual-casting fully perked up Incinerates 140 times is enough to speedrun any dungeon or boss! because broadian mages accumulate magicka, and this means a LOT of spell slots in late game.
focusian is all about one-shot potential or immense effect per cast. spam spells are unviable, but AoE is brutal. dual casting spells that have 3x base magnitude at no cooldown is... horrifying. you casually look at a bunch of enemies funny and dual cast Chain Lightning... and 4 people just swallowed 320 shock damage. it ALSO allows nonmages to if need be nuke a boss or escape some bullshit situation. duration AND magnitude are massively increased, this means spells that regenerate HP make you EXTREMELY hard to bring down unless you get one-tapped, and buffs / debuffs are hilariously long lasting and potent (80 second paralyze, anyone? a full minute of Consuming Power on your 5 hour long summon? how about a Curse of Silent that drains 80 magicka per second for the next 5 minutes? or having a Pacify that reaches level 300?) as well as having some unusual syenrgies, particularly Spellscribe. you have to play around these, as your spell slots become much more valuable and missing is costly. it basically turns a mage into a sniper, of sorts.
and by the time you hit Alteration 70, you're a stone's throw away from 80, at which point all spells up to apprentice are free. even if your slots are fully spent, you can still rely on a huge amount of solid spells. you'd be surprised how much can be accomplished with infinite firebolts and infinite ghostwalk and infinite pale shadow and infinite flame atronachs and infinite shock runes and infinite steadfast ward and infinite fast healing.
do not sleep on these perks, they're incredibly powerful if explored correctly.
Your mostly correct. However a non spell caster still can't cast invisibility for example. As you need level almost 75 in illusion to get that spell (unless there's a guaranteed tome spawn somewhere i don't know about), the only way to get to 75 besides spending alot of money on alot of trainers is to cast spells.
So you'd be stuck with muffle, calm and fear depending on your race. Novice and apprentice spells.
Additionally you could just enchant your gear for free or nearly free spells and have none of the permanent restrictions. Vancian is a fun mechanic, but i don't think it's a good perk. The downsides are just too significant and permanent.
The spells are twice as powerful, so it's a strong perk. However you have to start playing like D&D instead of Elder Scrolls.
It also lets you ignore your mana stat completely, so you can pump up your Health or Stamina instead. Which is a huge game changer. If you decide to go Mana build, you can then take Quadratic Wizard and that should be more than enough casts to get you through an adventure.
I wonder if there's a way to make it so the Intuitive Magic perk makes Novice/Apprentice spells not consume Vancian spells. Seems like a tease to have those perks right next to each other and not have them synergize.
Not to my knowledge. Theirs no way to check for a spells cost or if those perks are applied to a spell, even with skse. I'm pretty sure skse is required just to detect any spell cast at all.
I'm working on my own vancian magic and getting stuck in a few places. EnaiSiaion might be better to ask, but i don't think they take requests.
Just in case you didn't realize, you can can already cast 0 magicka spells when out of spell slots.
to some degree they actually do. Vancian magic reduces your magicka to zero when there are no more slots available, but intuitive magic reduces magic costs of novice and apprentice spells to zero as well so you can still cast them when youre out of vancian magic slots. Youre just kinda encouraged to use the flashiest most powerful spell you have until youre out of slots, then drop down to your tried and true low level spells
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JumpFeel free to give it a go yourself and publish it.
Thanks!
Here's my load order using LOOT in MO2:
Ordinator
SWI Ordinator Patch
Ordinator Vancian Mage Improved
Theres also a chance that enai updated ordinator, changing how this perk works.
let me know if you figure it out.
I ended up using 'additem menu' to give myself the appropriate staves, but if i had this, i'd have been able to chug down a magica pot and progress normally.
Definitely putting this in as an essential part of ordinator.
But yes i mostly agree, the use case for spell slots is very situational.
I think there's two main types of vancian playstyles, broad and focused (mid is pretty... eh). I'll refer to them respectively as Broadian and Focusian.
Broadian gives any character 30 free spells. it does not matter level, it does not matter cost, it does not matter skill level. if it has a mana cost, you can spam it. this means completely non-mage characters can suddenly start slinging spells. for instance, this allows any thief/assassin to cast Invisibility on demand, utilizing their meager 100 magicka and thief-oriented gear. it's not just being able to cast these spells, its being able to spam them. a vancian assassin can go invisible, sneak attack, immediately go invisible, and repeat the process THIRTY TIMES without so much as a break to recharge magicka. Broadian mages meanwhile can be ridiculous. high skill levels and perks that benefit dual casting allow you to do otherwise unsustainable spell combos. vancian mage characters are possibly among the most devastating builds I've ever come up with for Ordinator. dual-casting fully perked up Incinerates 140 times is enough to speedrun any dungeon or boss! because broadian mages accumulate magicka, and this means a LOT of spell slots in late game.
focusian is all about one-shot potential or immense effect per cast. spam spells are unviable, but AoE is brutal. dual casting spells that have 3x base magnitude at no cooldown is... horrifying. you casually look at a bunch of enemies funny and dual cast Chain Lightning... and 4 people just swallowed 320 shock damage. it ALSO allows nonmages to if need be nuke a boss or escape some bullshit situation. duration AND magnitude are massively increased, this means spells that regenerate HP make you EXTREMELY hard to bring down unless you get one-tapped, and buffs / debuffs are hilariously long lasting and potent (80 second paralyze, anyone? a full minute of Consuming Power on your 5 hour long summon? how about a Curse of Silent that drains 80 magicka per second for the next 5 minutes? or having a Pacify that reaches level 300?) as well as having some unusual syenrgies, particularly Spellscribe. you have to play around these, as your spell slots become much more valuable and missing is costly. it basically turns a mage into a sniper, of sorts.
and by the time you hit Alteration 70, you're a stone's throw away from 80, at which point all spells up to apprentice are free. even if your slots are fully spent, you can still rely on a huge amount of solid spells. you'd be surprised how much can be accomplished with infinite firebolts and infinite ghostwalk and infinite pale shadow and infinite flame atronachs and infinite shock runes and infinite steadfast ward and infinite fast healing.
do not sleep on these perks, they're incredibly powerful if explored correctly.
So you'd be stuck with muffle, calm and fear depending on your race. Novice and apprentice spells.
Additionally you could just enchant your gear for free or nearly free spells and have none of the permanent restrictions. Vancian is a fun mechanic, but i don't think it's a good perk. The downsides are just too significant and permanent.
It also lets you ignore your mana stat completely, so you can pump up your Health or Stamina instead. Which is a huge game changer. If you decide to go Mana build, you can then take Quadratic Wizard and that should be more than enough casts to get you through an adventure.
I'm working on my own vancian magic and getting stuck in a few places. EnaiSiaion might be better to ask, but i don't think they take requests.
Just in case you didn't realize, you can can already cast 0 magicka spells when out of spell slots.
what should i do ?
and how i do it ?
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