I'm trying out the mod right now and I'm enjoying it so far. Thanks for sharing!
Also, I was wondering if you could a bit more into stamina drain conflicts with this mod. My perk overhaul that I use (master of one) does include stamina drain to attacking, blocking, and movement in heavy armor. Right now, I'm using a mod that removes those functions while I test this mod out, but usually I play with those stamina drains active.
You mentioned the forced walk from spam being the problem in these scenarios, but do you just mean it might cause not fun/balanced gameplay or something more serious?
And if I were to try and patch the issue like you said, what would a patch like that look like? Like what would the patch do, I mean.
so the way forced work functions in SPAM is that when you deplete stamina and pause (stop moving momentarily, or start walking) the "forced walk" function basically reduces your movement multiplier slightly (so you "walk" even when attempting to run full speed, say with a controller) and stops any further stamina drain from occuring UNTIL your stamina reaches full again.
If you've ever played Helldivers 2, it works very similar to how Stamina regenerates in that game; upon it being depleted, it stays depleted until you stop moving and then move again.
With mods like Master of One (Which, i too also use!) a patch will need to be made to ensure that it's perks dont apply their stamina drain mechanics when this Stamina "Forced Walk" feature is active. Otherwise these drain features from other mods will occur while forced walk is active, stopping it from ending (it only ends when stamina reaches full again)
It wont be gamebreaking at all, and it's no big deal, just makes the feature less consistent. A patch will need to be made.
The way the patch would work is it would need to simply detect when the forced walk function (of SPAM) is active, and make sure that the other drain effects from other mods - likely a spell effect - dont apply when it is in effect. It would basically have to be a condition check on those spells.
I never made my master of one patch public as it's a single ESP that includes a whole host of other changes and tweaks to master of one to my personal preference, so it's fairly intertwined with loads of other stuff.
Oh okay, I see. I've only recently started making patches in xedit so I'm not sure I'll be able to do it right now, but maybe in the future when I'm more familiar. I'm going to try right now anyways since it sounds like a simple patch, but I could be wrong.
Thanks for taking time out of your day to explain it to me. I really appreciate it!
it is fairly simple yeah, just perhaps a little time consuming hunting down the relevent spells/effects that cause drain.
In the case of Master of One, I edited the spell "moo_heavyarmor_conditioning_ab" (Heavy Armor Fatigue) and added a "IsSpellTarget" condition check, and in that check, i selected SPAM's "SPAM_SPL_FORCEWALK "Stamina - Forced Walk"" spell effect.
This, of course, requires you to be doing it within an ESP/ESL that has "SPAM" listed as a master, in order to reference SPAMS forced walk magic effect in the condition.
With this condition in effect, it would stop Master of One's Heavy Armor stamina drain occuring whenever SPAMS "Forced Walk" was in effect on the player - a successful patch!
Outside of Master of one, this same approach would have to be taken with other mods that did any form of on movement/stamina drain.
Oh wow, thank you so much! That does sound like something I can do. And so far I am enjoying the unique stamina regen mechanic. It's makes having a lot of stamina drains in the game fun since it adds a layer to your gameplay without stopping gameplay completely after a certain point. And it makes me want to have a horse finally!
Also, feel free to not to respond since you've already helped me out a bunch (I really won't hold it against you lol), but I was curious if you play with inventory limiter mods like this for example https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/50144. I feel like so far with my testing, an inventory limiter mod isn't really necessary. However, I do like just knowing that my character would be penalized for carrying around multiple heavy weapons or a stockpile of potions, even if I wouldn't really want to do that with this mod.
And I was also wondering your thoughts on a mod like exhaustion https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/94574 which affects the max amount of an attribute you can naturally regenerate when said attribute gets damaged. This one I imagine might be too much with this mod since you would be draining stamina a lot (although it would encourage you to walk and use a horse outside of combat) and it's hard to say how it would interact with the helldiver stamina mechanic.
If you don't use any mods like the above, no worries. I'm still going to test them together with this mod and see how it goes. I just wanted to know your thoughts on them. Again, really appreciate you showing me how to patch stamina drains, you didn't have to. So, thanks!
No worries. I use Master of One myself for i suspect very similar reasons so quite happy to help.
I cant say ive heard of the two mods you linked.
Looking at Carry That Weight though; it sounds good but honestly, skyrims encumbrance system is just quite naff in my opinion and just a victim of it's time. It's why i eventually made numerous changes to it in SPAM as fundamentally, it suffers with the same affliction as every other stat in the game; being given in abundance to the point of having no value. This leads to many deep, fundamental problems later down the line for the entire game world (Broken economy, silly movement mechanics/speeds, etc) This was in part why i made SPAM in the first place to address this core fundamental problem with Skyrim.
Having witnessed how the game Cairn does inventory, every other game (Esp skyrim) just pales in comparison:
So really i'd love for a skyrim mod to do similar to what Cairn does, but i know thats essentially an impossible ask lol.
Really like the sound of this Exhaustion mod you linked, however as you rightly mentioned it may be too restrictive when paired with SPAM.
I do think it would work, and actually if SPAM had something similar it could compliment fantastically, but it would have to be a very subtle penalty.
I also run with mods like Frostfall and Last Seed which are in effect needs mods. Ideally, i'd love to see the Exhaustion mechanic incorporated into Last Seed, that would be awesome. Perhaps only to a much lesser/less taxing degree though as SPAM is already a very extensive "Debuff" mod as is; penalizing the player is great (in skyrim, at least) but doing it too extensively will be a big problem; especially if NPC's dont also get a similar treatment to level out the playing field a bit.
The mod is great, but it seems to be pretty script heavy and it becomes pretty evident in heavy load orders with other script heavy mods. This script in particular has been problematic since it was implemented. Maybe increase the time between checks... I've also seen suspended stacks OnMenuClose or something like that, all related to the same script.
The script you reference is actually one of the more simple ones in the entire mod; It calculates the quantity of % bonus to a Health/Stam/Mag to issue the player on a level up depending on what they choose. Thats it, nothing else. It fires once in that level up instance, and syncs h/s/m values every 60 seconds thereafter.
It was however the biggest pig of a script to impliment as it kept spitting out incorrect percentage values under different scenarios (Say, multiple level ups in one instance) - i very nearly pulled the feature entirely from SPAM, but fortunately managed to completely resolve it by persevering. So even if you level-upped numerous times, it now works perfectly. So although it's purpose is fairly straightforward, the implimentation was slightly more complicated.
The way it works is; it detects the level up event "OnMenuClose" of the level up menu, so the bulk of the script is only specific to this event - and even then, it's just a few math formulas to calculate that gain, nothing heavy at all.
The "OnMenuClose" (LevelUp) is the specific menu whereby you select Health/Stamina/Magicka (The popup menu) so unless you're getting hundreds of those at once, this script shouldn't be firing excessively at all.
Outside of this menu, It only fires once every 60 seconds, to do a base health/magicka/stamina comparison to sync its stored values with what the player has, literally copying 3 values. It uses RegisterForSingleUpdate() to achieve this which is far safer then using "RegisterforUpdate()" - This is what the vast majority of SPAMS script use to operate and on reoccurances only do so 30-60 seconds each time, and thats only if required. (Im VERY strict with myself on this)
With SPAM, i avoid using RegisterForUpdate()/reoccuring "time" instances to prevent overloading Papyrus and instead use specific events (preferably, events that cannot be spammed intentionally or accidentally by the player either). So although SPAM is certainly script heavy, the burden they'd have in-game should be minimal as the majority of behaviors are actually conducted via spell effects and conditions native to the game.
My only guess, the issue you're seeing is its related to the scripts use of Utility.Wait or the "While" function within the script - even then, the script is only performing a few brief math functions to calculate the required bonuses the player gets given on level up. and any wait function is only for a few moments so i think thats a stretch.
It's either this, or there's something else slowing down your script engine and for some reason it's fixating on my script. Or a reinstall of SPAM hasn't gone correctly and the script hasn't cleared from that reinstall - could be this as i've not properly implimented the "uninstall" or cleanup function yet (But as long as you did a clean save and removed the mod, it should've cleared) so i think this may be the more likely culprit.
I'll check it out, but not sure if there's much to look at.
I was just about to do an update to SPAM, so i'll do my checks before releasing.
Edit - I've edited the script to use less wait functions, which might - BIG might - be the cause.
My suspicion though is a SPAM reinstall thats not gone so gracefully for you, and you're running some legacy code there from older versions where I was having grief with this script (it'll be in the changelogs somewhere..). I'd suggest a clean save/uninstall/reinstall of SPAM and seeing if any further instances of this crop up. That or your papyrus is just too heavily burdened with alot of script related mods.
On the plus, no other script in this mod gave me the same level of grief, so hopefully you'd not get any further problems.
Edit 2- Did you spot any other SPAM entries in your Resaver program? Just curious
Cheers for letting me know. One of the main things I want to avoid (For my own sanity as well as others) is bad/unoptimized scripts so I want to keep on top of issues like this.
Edit 3-
Just used the Resaver program (cheers for the screencap btw) on my game and it's come back clean. Nothing from SPAM at all.
Very confident that you've got some old legacy script stuff going on there from older versions of SPAM, specifically during version 6 to 7 where I was doing alot of bug squashing with that script in particular. I can only suggest you do a full clean save of SPAM and remove any risidual scripts from your save.
Hello, sorry, for the late response. For some weird reason I got no notifications. As of now, after the update in which you optimized the script, I have no complaints or issues. Loving the mod and it has been working flawlessly no entries on resaver, suspended stacks whatsoever.
Ive been contemplating this for some time. (An mcm at least)
Making the mod itself has taken priority though for me, and i figured id maybe do the MCM at a much later date once the mod was mostly functional.
The biggest issue is; i actually dont know how to make it.
Not only this, but in all honesty, im not a huge fan of MCM, mostly because over the years, ive become increasingly aware of how i despise in-game configuration of mods, especially when mcm is often not consistent between new characters, and is a slog to set up hundreds of MCMs for various mods on every new game to get a consistent experience -- this is especially a problem if you're coming back to the game from a long hiatus, as you wont remember what the best mcm settings were!
Personally, i favor just editing globals in the esl/esp, its then permanent. And on an existing save, Just opening up the console and setting thr global to the desired value.
With that said though, i may do an MCM in future, depends where my focus goes.
Funnily enough, I love MCMs. =P While I get from where you're coming from, that only applies to users that barely change their mods, like they don't change their LO that much so they don't have to reinstall mods and usually just add new ones. That doesn't work for players that are constantly changing their LO, having to reinstall mods to apply some patch they now need from installers or in order to troubleshoot.
There are a bunch of settings loaders and MCMRecorder out there. And of course, none of that stops me or anyone from editing the plugin if I want to. Using the MCM to configure a mod is an option, not an obligation. Not to mention, accessibility, not every user wants to/knows how to mess around with numbers in xEdit and many are definitely not confident enough to do it.
Plus, this method always presents another challenge, if you're the type that is constantly messing around with your load order, everytime you change a plugin in xEdit and then for whatever reason, decides to re-install the mod or uninstall to test something incompatible and then comes back to it, you also has to remember to re-edit the plugin, not only that, if an user is not as advanced they might not remember how to do it and they have to search how they did it all over again. Most users are lazy, they just want to play or having fun testing their mods, having to go through an extra step, when we already have plenty of steps to go through in order to have a working modlist can be discouraging. Sure they might just keep a back up of the plugin, but that presents another extra step that many won't take because they'll think they won't really use that mod again... And then they do. =P Plus, what's the difference between saving a plugin with their configuration and saving their configured MCM jsons? They don't even need to do that if they have settings loaders/MCMrecorder, the only way of losing it fully is if the user completely nukes everything skyrim related from their PC, in that case, they'd nuke their saved plugins as well, so what's the difference?
Lastly, the worst part of making configuration changes directly on the plugin is the fact that to test if the configuration is what you wanted you have to launch the game, test it and if it's not as you wanted, you have to close it again, open xEdit, update the plugin.... Meanwhile with a MCM you can test directly in-game.
I have over 3,5k active plugins and I'm always starting a new game for one reason or another (testing mods that change the worldspace mainly). I don't even care to know how many MCMs I have surely over 120, the reason I don't know is because they all load my preferred settings on their own, I just I've got about 5 that I need to load their settings manually... I don't need to configure anything, I already did, I just have to click "load". =P
But, yeah, i think you're doing the right thing, focusing on finishing and polishing the mod first. Hopefully, it'll take off and maybe someone will make a MCM for it. I think there are a few MCM frameworks that might help you. I can look around for you if you want, unfortunately I know nothing about programming or I'd do it myself, this mod deserves it.
Yeah i get that. I think though you touch upon the very reason (For me at least) why i'm no that thrilled about an MCM; i'm one of those person(s) who doesn't really change their load order much, so prefers not having an MCM to configure (Because already too many mods require it on a new game) and wants personalization to be more permanent (esl/esp changes).
Honestly, one of the most daunting things coming back to Skyrim after a year or so is not remembering AT ALL what settings i religiously ran in various MCM's - very frustrating, as i shouldn't have to remember this infomation or be required to do it on each new game.
MCM "loaders" are handy, but it does add further dependencies required to get it to function, and not every mod supports it. My load order is full of older mods that just do not retain their MCM settings, and that is in big part the problem. I did try MCM Recorder too, but it was fairly unreliable for me - might be different now though but i didn't get much joy out of it.
And, honestly, i think the time is soon upon us where people like myself will soon become a majority - Skyrim is not getting any younger, and people will slowly just adopt a fixed load order that will steadily change less and less.
(For the record, not trying to discourage MCM use in any way or justify NOT making one -- just simply having a discussion on the subject lol)
By all means though, if you can find someone to make the MCM, or point me in the direction on how to make an MCM, I dont mind taking a look.
Any chance of gettins Sunhelm patch like the one you made for Frostfall and Last Seed. I love Last Seed, but I always end up with Sunhelm just because it's lighter and has its own cold mechanic.
I love your work and after reading "War &Peace" on your mod page, i saw that maybe you were considering making a weight gain add-on or patch for SPAM.
Well first of all it would be glorious but also open the Door for this: RSV-BnP https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/102667
That mod allows for a change of skin texture and bump map depending on the racemenu weight slider and this function is absolutely bloody fantastic but never found a mod adjusting weight directly playing on the vanilla weight slider...
Your SPAM + your adjustable weight add-on that would simply adjust the vanilla weight slider and possibly trigger RSV/BnP skin textures change would be absolutely epic!
You've put a lot of thought and time into this, and I'm very interested. But after spending countless hours curating my mod list to do many (not all) of the things your mod does, I can't imagine having to go through everything that touches what this does and remove it from my load order. Maybe some day I can give this a try. It looks awesome.
Thank you! I put alot more time and energy into this then i realize, particularly the scripts as I'm very green in that regard.
Using the abundance of resources online though really helped tremendously on that front, and knowing how risky scripts can be, compatibility and stability were at the forefront of my mind with every line of code.
consequently, this *should* be very compatible with everything, and also should be uninstall(able) without any grief on the basis the procedure is followed, but either way any issues i'm certain people will inform me about it.
very extensive, no-nonsense modification of your movement / stamina / health / magicka mechanics. I have made something similar for myself but this is even better/ more extensive. Looking at xedit this is really well thought-out. Very recommendable for players that want realism without too many heavy looping scripts. On a side note, The out of stamina - health drain idea is very good. Gives stamina the importance it deserves. (in vanilla stamina is just a useless green bar decorates the bottom screen Lol). ENDORSED. Give it a try
27 comments
Also, I was wondering if you could a bit more into stamina drain conflicts with this mod. My perk overhaul that I use (master of one) does include stamina drain to attacking, blocking, and movement in heavy armor. Right now, I'm using a mod that removes those functions while I test this mod out, but usually I play with those stamina drains active.
You mentioned the forced walk from spam being the problem in these scenarios, but do you just mean it might cause not fun/balanced gameplay or something more serious?
And if I were to try and patch the issue like you said, what would a patch like that look like? Like what would the patch do, I mean.
Thank you for any help
If you've ever played Helldivers 2, it works very similar to how Stamina regenerates in that game; upon it being depleted, it stays depleted until you stop moving and then move again.
With mods like Master of One (Which, i too also use!) a patch will need to be made to ensure that it's perks dont apply their stamina drain mechanics when this Stamina "Forced Walk" feature is active. Otherwise these drain features from other mods will occur while forced walk is active, stopping it from ending (it only ends when stamina reaches full again)
It wont be gamebreaking at all, and it's no big deal, just makes the feature less consistent. A patch will need to be made.
The way the patch would work is it would need to simply detect when the forced walk function (of SPAM) is active, and make sure that the other drain effects from other mods - likely a spell effect - dont apply when it is in effect. It would basically have to be a condition check on those spells.
I never made my master of one patch public as it's a single ESP that includes a whole host of other changes and tweaks to master of one to my personal preference, so it's fairly intertwined with loads of other stuff.
Thanks for taking time out of your day to explain it to me. I really appreciate it!
In the case of Master of One, I edited the spell "moo_heavyarmor_conditioning_ab" (Heavy Armor Fatigue) and added a "IsSpellTarget" condition check, and in that check, i selected SPAM's "SPAM_SPL_FORCEWALK "Stamina - Forced Walk"" spell effect.
This, of course, requires you to be doing it within an ESP/ESL that has "SPAM" listed as a master, in order to reference SPAMS forced walk magic effect in the condition.
With this condition in effect, it would stop Master of One's Heavy Armor stamina drain occuring whenever SPAMS "Forced Walk" was in effect on the player - a successful patch!
Outside of Master of one, this same approach would have to be taken with other mods that did any form of on movement/stamina drain.
Also, feel free to not to respond since you've already helped me out a bunch (I really won't hold it against you lol), but I was curious if you play with inventory limiter mods like this for example https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/50144. I feel like so far with my testing, an inventory limiter mod isn't really necessary. However, I do like just knowing that my character would be penalized for carrying around multiple heavy weapons or a stockpile of potions, even if I wouldn't really want to do that with this mod.
And I was also wondering your thoughts on a mod like exhaustion https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/94574 which affects the max amount of an attribute you can naturally regenerate when said attribute gets damaged. This one I imagine might be too much with this mod since you would be draining stamina a lot (although it would encourage you to walk and use a horse outside of combat) and it's hard to say how it would interact with the helldiver stamina mechanic.
If you don't use any mods like the above, no worries. I'm still going to test them together with this mod and see how it goes. I just wanted to know your thoughts on them. Again, really appreciate you showing me how to patch stamina drains, you didn't have to. So, thanks!
I cant say ive heard of the two mods you linked.
Looking at Carry That Weight though; it sounds good but honestly, skyrims encumbrance system is just quite naff in my opinion and just a victim of it's time. It's why i eventually made numerous changes to it in SPAM as fundamentally, it suffers with the same affliction as every other stat in the game; being given in abundance to the point of having no value. This leads to many deep, fundamental problems later down the line for the entire game world (Broken economy, silly movement mechanics/speeds, etc) This was in part why i made SPAM in the first place to address this core fundamental problem with Skyrim.
Having witnessed how the game Cairn does inventory, every other game (Esp skyrim) just pales in comparison:
https://youtu.be/_RZG6cDiRYM?si=az6udUjS97nTWwn7&t=470
So really i'd love for a skyrim mod to do similar to what Cairn does, but i know thats essentially an impossible ask lol.
Really like the sound of this Exhaustion mod you linked, however as you rightly mentioned it may be too restrictive when paired with SPAM.
I do think it would work, and actually if SPAM had something similar it could compliment fantastically, but it would have to be a very subtle penalty.
I also run with mods like Frostfall and Last Seed which are in effect needs mods. Ideally, i'd love to see the Exhaustion mechanic incorporated into Last Seed, that would be awesome. Perhaps only to a much lesser/less taxing degree though as SPAM is already a very extensive "Debuff" mod as is; penalizing the player is great (in skyrim, at least) but doing it too extensively will be a big problem; especially if NPC's dont also get a similar treatment to level out the playing field a bit.
Yeah, that.
Lovely Spam! Wonderful Spam!
Lovely Spam! Wonderful SpamSpa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am
Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am
Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am
Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-amLovely Spam! (Lovely Spam!)
Lovely Spam! (Lovely Spam!)
Lovely Spam!Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam!
The script you reference is actually one of the more simple ones in the entire mod; It calculates the quantity of % bonus to a Health/Stam/Mag to issue the player on a level up depending on what they choose. Thats it, nothing else. It fires once in that level up instance, and syncs h/s/m values every 60 seconds thereafter.
It was however the biggest pig of a script to impliment as it kept spitting out incorrect percentage values under different scenarios (Say, multiple level ups in one instance) - i very nearly pulled the feature entirely from SPAM, but fortunately managed to completely resolve it by persevering. So even if you level-upped numerous times, it now works perfectly. So although it's purpose is fairly straightforward, the implimentation was slightly more complicated.
The way it works is; it detects the level up event "OnMenuClose" of the level up menu, so the bulk of the script is only specific to this event - and even then, it's just a few math formulas to calculate that gain, nothing heavy at all.
The "OnMenuClose" (LevelUp) is the specific menu whereby you select Health/Stamina/Magicka (The popup menu) so unless you're getting hundreds of those at once, this script shouldn't be firing excessively at all.
Outside of this menu, It only fires once every 60 seconds, to do a base health/magicka/stamina comparison to sync its stored values with what the player has, literally copying 3 values. It uses RegisterForSingleUpdate() to achieve this which is far safer then using "RegisterforUpdate()" - This is what the vast majority of SPAMS script use to operate and on reoccurances only do so 30-60 seconds each time, and thats only if required. (Im VERY strict with myself on this)
With SPAM, i avoid using RegisterForUpdate()/reoccuring "time" instances to prevent overloading Papyrus and instead use specific events (preferably, events that cannot be spammed intentionally or accidentally by the player either). So although SPAM is certainly script heavy, the burden they'd have in-game should be minimal as the majority of behaviors are actually conducted via spell effects and conditions native to the game.
My only guess, the issue you're seeing is its related to the scripts use of Utility.Wait or the "While" function within the script - even then, the script is only performing a few brief math functions to calculate the required bonuses the player gets given on level up. and any wait function is only for a few moments so i think thats a stretch.
It's either this, or there's something else slowing down your script engine and for some reason it's fixating on my script. Or a reinstall of SPAM hasn't gone correctly and the script hasn't cleared from that reinstall - could be this as i've not properly implimented the "uninstall" or cleanup function yet (But as long as you did a clean save and removed the mod, it should've cleared) so i think this may be the more likely culprit.
I'll check it out, but not sure if there's much to look at.
I was just about to do an update to SPAM, so i'll do my checks before releasing.
Edit -
I've edited the script to use less wait functions, which might - BIG might - be the cause.
My suspicion though is a SPAM reinstall thats not gone so gracefully for you, and you're running some legacy code there from older versions where I was having grief with this script (it'll be in the changelogs somewhere..). I'd suggest a clean save/uninstall/reinstall of SPAM and seeing if any further instances of this crop up. That or your papyrus is just too heavily burdened with alot of script related mods.
On the plus, no other script in this mod gave me the same level of grief, so hopefully you'd not get any further problems.
Edit 2-
Did you spot any other SPAM entries in your Resaver program? Just curious
Cheers for letting me know. One of the main things I want to avoid (For my own sanity as well as others) is bad/unoptimized scripts so I want to keep on top of issues like this.
Edit 3-
Just used the Resaver program (cheers for the screencap btw) on my game and it's come back clean. Nothing from SPAM at all.
Very confident that you've got some old legacy script stuff going on there from older versions of SPAM, specifically during version 6 to 7 where I was doing alot of bug squashing with that script in particular. I can only suggest you do a full clean save of SPAM and remove any risidual scripts from your save.
Making the mod itself has taken priority though for me, and i figured id maybe do the MCM at a much later date once the mod was mostly functional.
The biggest issue is; i actually dont know how to make it.
Not only this, but in all honesty, im not a huge fan of MCM, mostly because over the years, ive become increasingly aware of how i despise in-game configuration of mods, especially when mcm is often not consistent between new characters, and is a slog to set up hundreds of MCMs for various mods on every new game to get a consistent experience -- this is especially a problem if you're coming back to the game from a long hiatus, as you wont remember what the best mcm settings were!
Personally, i favor just editing globals in the esl/esp, its then permanent. And on an existing save, Just opening up the console and setting thr global to the desired value.
With that said though, i may do an MCM in future, depends where my focus goes.
There are a bunch of settings loaders and MCMRecorder out there. And of course, none of that stops me or anyone from editing the plugin if I want to. Using the MCM to configure a mod is an option, not an obligation. Not to mention, accessibility, not every user wants to/knows how to mess around with numbers in xEdit and many are definitely not confident enough to do it.
Plus, this method always presents another challenge, if you're the type that is constantly messing around with your load order, everytime you change a plugin in xEdit and then for whatever reason, decides to re-install the mod or uninstall to test something incompatible and then comes back to it, you also has to remember to re-edit the plugin, not only that, if an user is not as advanced they might not remember how to do it and they have to search how they did it all over again. Most users are lazy, they just want to play or having fun testing their mods, having to go through an extra step, when we already have plenty of steps to go through in order to have a working modlist can be discouraging. Sure they might just keep a back up of the plugin, but that presents another extra step that many won't take because they'll think they won't really use that mod again... And then they do. =P Plus, what's the difference between saving a plugin with their configuration and saving their configured MCM jsons? They don't even need to do that if they have settings loaders/MCMrecorder, the only way of losing it fully is if the user completely nukes everything skyrim related from their PC, in that case, they'd nuke their saved plugins as well, so what's the difference?
Lastly, the worst part of making configuration changes directly on the plugin is the fact that to test if the configuration is what you wanted you have to launch the game, test it and if it's not as you wanted, you have to close it again, open xEdit, update the plugin.... Meanwhile with a MCM you can test directly in-game.
I have over 3,5k active plugins and I'm always starting a new game for one reason or another (testing mods that change the worldspace mainly). I don't even care to know how many MCMs I have surely over 120, the reason I don't know is because they all load my preferred settings on their own, I just I've got about 5 that I need to load their settings manually... I don't need to configure anything, I already did, I just have to click "load". =P
But, yeah, i think you're doing the right thing, focusing on finishing and polishing the mod first. Hopefully, it'll take off and maybe someone will make a MCM for it. I think there are a few MCM frameworks that might help you. I can look around for you if you want, unfortunately I know nothing about programming or I'd do it myself, this mod deserves it.
Honestly, one of the most daunting things coming back to Skyrim after a year or so is not remembering AT ALL what settings i religiously ran in various MCM's - very frustrating, as i shouldn't have to remember this infomation or be required to do it on each new game.
MCM "loaders" are handy, but it does add further dependencies required to get it to function, and not every mod supports it. My load order is full of older mods that just do not retain their MCM settings, and that is in big part the problem. I did try MCM Recorder too, but it was fairly unreliable for me - might be different now though but i didn't get much joy out of it.
And, honestly, i think the time is soon upon us where people like myself will soon become a majority - Skyrim is not getting any younger, and people will slowly just adopt a fixed load order that will steadily change less and less.
(For the record, not trying to discourage MCM use in any way or justify NOT making one -- just simply having a discussion on the subject lol)
By all means though, if you can find someone to make the MCM, or point me in the direction on how to make an MCM, I dont mind taking a look.
Cheers for the input, appreciate it.
I'll take a look, but i can't promise anything.
Well first of all it would be glorious but also open the Door for this: RSV-BnP https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/102667
That mod allows for a change of skin texture and bump map depending on the racemenu weight slider and this function is absolutely bloody fantastic but never found a mod adjusting weight directly playing on the vanilla weight slider...
Your SPAM + your adjustable weight add-on that would simply adjust the vanilla weight slider and possibly trigger RSV/BnP skin textures change would be absolutely epic!
I run with Unique Bodies by Race mod in my game, so any further customizations for characters gets my attention.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I cant guarantee i will do anything, but i might investigate further if time and willpower allows.
Using the abundance of resources online though really helped tremendously on that front, and knowing how risky scripts can be, compatibility and stability were at the forefront of my mind with every line of code.
consequently, this *should* be very compatible with everything, and also should be uninstall(able) without any grief on the basis the procedure is followed, but either way any issues i'm certain people will inform me about it.