v2.0.0. A notable adjustment following the release of the bestiary. Weaknesses are now more common (though still rare), and a few creatures have been adjusted. The optional weather effects will need a new save, otherwise updating should be safe.
Please post below any thoughts, questions or concerns. I try to maintain an active (and friendly) presence in the comments :-)
Thanks for your downloads, comments and endorsements.
You should read the in-game book "Legions of the Dead" and consider applying the lore about complete damage immunities to non-enchanted and non-silver weapons where applicable.
Thanks for sharing. To be honest, KYE2 is already very close to this:
Ghosts "can only be harmed by weapons that are enchanted or made of refined substances such as silver". This is true in KYE2, except the regular weapon resistance is just a strong resistance and not a total immunity. Applying an immunity would essentially break parts of skyrim however, where NPCs have to fight ghosts with regular weapons, so I think the current set up is the best way.
"normal weapons harm bonewalkers [i.e., draugr"]". This is mostly true in KYE2 as well except draugr are very resistant to bows and mildly resistant to blunt.
For skeletons it doesn't say much other than that bonelords (which don't exist in Skyrim) are not affected by normal weapons.
For vampires, again, it doesn't mention resistances, only that they are stronger than regular undead, so again I think KYE2 is fine.
I think I prefer the older versions... whereas the old KYE made some enemies weak to different damage types and immune to others, this version removes ALL immunities... including making all undead able to be hurt by poison, and Ice Wraiths able to be damaged by frost. Where the old version for armor had pros and cons for every type of armor, the only downsides now are a weakness to Illusion for everything wearing a full set of armor (completely useless against the player), and having Conductive metals be the only holdover from the previous.
KYE1 is still there is you prefer it, and its overall a harsher (and jankier) experience. That said, KYE2 has loads of immunities too, just set the magic effect intensity to 4 in the MCM and you'll get all the immunities you mention and lots more back.
Armor is definitely quite different though. In this case the KYE1 system has pretty strong compatibility issues and so I wanted a different system to work around that. I also deliberately avoided armor weaknesses as they tended to trivialize fights. Shock is the only one that's left, and that works out okay because as many armors resist shock as are weak to it and the armors that are weak to it are physically potent.
So yeah, overall I think KYE2 is better, but KYE1 is totally still there for those who disagree.
Didn't know about the intensity setting, thanks! Hearing your perspective on all this has helped me understand your reasoning quite a bit. Apologies If I came off as being harsh... wasn't aware the old KYE had any conflicts, but I did know that some armors simply didn't get any effects from it, such as CC content, if I recall.||
I do also like the costs of destruction spells being adjusted; in vanilla, having the strongest damage type in terms of overall DPS (fire) be the most cost-efficient never really made sense to me - even as a kid. That, and non-enchanted, non-silver weapons working just fine on ghosts.
Yeah, relying on armor material keywords extends really poorly to mod added armors, ended up causing lots of issues.
And yes, glad you like the adjusted spell costs. I always really disliked how fire was so OP in vanilla, and frost, in particular, sucks. I think some spell mods already rebalance costs a bit (e.g. Mysticism maybe?) so just keep an eye out and turn it off if frost spells end up too cheap.
I don't mind frost spells being the cheapest, really; it's a good balance for it having the most resistances in the game!
Also checked after reading this; Mysticism's cost changes only really close the gap slightly in comparison to yours, looking at Flames ant Frostbite without Destruction perks.
I also appreciate that you made frost magic more viable, and especially that it is now effective against Dweomer constructs which makes a lot of sense when you think about it for a bit since they are actually mechanical rather than proper golems. The weather-dependent boosts are a great idea too and really support the main aim of the mod - to encourage spreading your skills more widely and adapting your tools to the situation at hand. I've been playing with this for a while now and am really enjoying the tactical depth it adds to combat. I might suggest making the highest level of magic resistances the default, since many players miss the option in the MCM and this would leave vanilla immunities intact.
Thanks for the kind words! I see your point about the default intensity setting, but immunities are kinda divisive, so whatever I set it to, not everyone will be happy.
Of course, I understand. I have a question btw - does standard AI notice these new resistances and adjust to them? I would have assumed it doesn't, but I've noticed that my follower does seem to use frost rather than shock against undead foes more frequently. Might just be a coincidence of course.
I think NPCs do actually take them into account, at least the magical ones anyway as they use entirely vanilla systems. I'm not sure if NPCs take the physical effects into account though. My understanding is that NPCs run a quick simulation of how much damage their attacks/spells would do and then they choose the best, this is why they tend to spam the same attacks. This simulation system includes elemental resistances, but I don't know if it picks up on the perks used to mediate physical resistances, probably not.
I've never heard of this issue before, so its either a really rare incompatibility or something else on your end. If you had the time to test with just KYE2 and no other mods I'd appreciate it, otherwise I'll try to replicate it on my end.
I like the look of most of this mod very much, but may I ask what the rationale is in making sneak attacks scale with intelligence? It makes hunting for instance even more tedious than it already is, and doesn't strike me as immersive either.
The idea is that dumb creatures are basically oblivious to the world anyway, so whether you sneak up on them or not it barely matters. It's also for balance, sneak attacks can become crazy OP and so this makes them more situational rather than game breaking.
Wild animals like deer should be pretty low level, so once you invest in archery a bit you should have no problem one-shotting them, even wild a mild sneak attack nerf.
Deer are, but not so hogs or wolves. And I do think they should be just as affected by sneak attacks (=heart shots) as humans are. I don't think it's a balance issue since those aren't exactly the strongest enemies in the game anyway, more a question of immersion. EDIT: But I just realised you added bows as a weakness to animals - so I reckon it might cancel the sneak penalty out?
Wolves, other than ice wolves, have half the health of deer, so are even easier to one shot. There aren't hogs in vanilla Skyrim (though there are bristlebacks on Solstheim, which are pretty tanky and os very hard to one shot).
In general I think imagining sneak attacks as heart shots is a bit of a stretch. For instance, you can sneak attack machines and atronachs that don't have hearts. Similarly, you can never sneak attack a creature that has detected you even though they still have a heart. It seems more to be about catching an enemy unaware. Now why this would do more damage is kinda weird, but its just a fun game mechanic to make sneak more viable.
The bow weakness of animals will pretty much cancel out the sneak attack debuff, yeah.
Fair enough. I agree that a system that would only let you sneak attack creatures with a discernible physique as per old AD&D rules would be best. That you cannot do it to a creature who has detected you can be explained as it being a moving target at that point, though.
Another thing that strikes me as odd about the intelligence metric is that if I read your description correctly, it will make Illusion stronger against "unintelligent" enemies such as undead and constructs than against humans, which would just be plain silly. Maybe it would be better to group them as intelligent - conscious - not conscious, with illusions being very effective against conscious (but unintelligent) creatures, but useless against mindless ones.
> Another thing that strikes me as odd about the intelligence metric is that if I read your description correctly, it will make Illusion stronger against "unintelligent" enemies such as undead and constructs than against humans, which would just be plain silly.
This does not happen because the KYE2 creature module does not affect the playable (i.e. human) races. So, for instance, both draugr and nords are equally susceptible to illusion (though you'll need the master of the mind perk to affect draugr if using vanilla perks), but dragon priests strongly resist illusion spells.
That said, even if illusion spells were stronger against unintelligent creatures than humans I don't think that would be silly - draugr and skeletons are literally minions and so should be pretty easy to manipulate, meanwhile domestic creatures have been bred for docility and obedience, and so, again, should be pretty susceptible. Given this I think its pretty easy to invent a fantasy world where humans are not the easiest targets of illusion spells. Nonetheless, bethesda clearly did not go down that route (as indicated by the master of the mind perk) and KYE2 does not disagree here.
Ah I'm sorry then. I had thought that since your mod description mentions removing all vanilla resistances, illusion spells would now affect the undead and constructs even without the perk. That makes sense then! And honestly, you've got a point about the undead being sort of mind-controlled anyway. Never thought of it that way. I guess that's another D&D trope (with less basis in reality, for obvious reasons). Thank you for indulging my questions!
Hello! I'm not entirely sure is this mod is working. When I use "inspect" on a corpse (ex. a bandit), I get a message saying "KYE2 NPC armor intensity set to unrecognized value: 0". I thought this was because the dude was naked (after pillaging them XD), but other bandits seem to have the same value with armor equipped. When inspecting, I am not seeing the weaknesses or anything either. With that, I'm not seeing any active effects regarding the mod either (such as a curass giving resistances, etc)? Have I done something wrong?
As far as combat mods I have Wildcat, Skyrim Revamped, Lawless, KYE2, KYE2 Integration Patch, and KYE - armors (I know that KYE isn't a combat mod per-say, but wanted to include it).
Pardon my lack of lack of knowledge on this. I'm not sure if I just haven't noticed any changed yet or it actually doesn't work. I feel like it should as I'm lv 17 as I'm making this.
Wow, this is great! That error message is something I built into KYE to detect when something goes wrong, something that, in theory, should never go wrong, yet, somehow its gone wrong for you! As far as I know you are the first person to achieve this error.
Anyway, the specific error is that the effect intensity for armor effect for NPCs has been set to 0, when the only permitted values are 1, 2, 3 or 4. If you go into the MCM you should be able to change it there. But, as you'll hopefully see, the MCM only lets you set it to 1-4. Do you know how you set it to 0? Let me know if this fix works, and if not, I can try to advise futher.
You need to look in the KYE2 - Armors MCM. The quantitative value option disappears when you install the integration patch as its not supported by the combined creature+armor inspect spell.
I thought it was needed. I tried to run just the patch and I get a message in vortex that I'm missing masters... not sure what to do there.
Here is a link to some more screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/9BhL3iH
First, I had KYE2 and KYE2 - armors, I made a new game, fast traveled to an orc camp, and killed some of them to see if they would show resistances. It turns out that there were still not resistances popping up.
I had the KYE2 - armors MCM (shown in screenshots)! But, it didn't seem to change anything as I still wasn't able to get anything from inspecting bodies.
Then, I spawned in some enemies that I thought would have resistances. However, they all showed to have none. I tried both KYE2, Armors, and the integration patch because why not... and that didn't do anything XD...
The armors MCM only showed up when using the integration patch...
So sorry to continue bugging you about this. I just really want to get the mod to work :)!
> I thought it was needed. It's only needed if you are using both KYE2 and KYE2 armors. Even then it isn't strictly necessary, but it does make the two mods work together more seamlessly.
> I tried to run just the patch and I get a message in vortex that I'm missing masters Yes, if you run the patch but not KYE2 and KYE2 armors, then nothing will work.
> It turns out that there were still not resistances popping up. This sounds like SPID and KID are not working. Make sure you have them and all their requirements installed correctly. You can check the SPID and KID logs to make sure they are distributing things correctly too.
> The armors MCM only showed up when using the integration patch It should show up as long as you have KYE 2 armors, regardless of the integration patch. This makes it sound like there is something wrong with your install.
However; is there a way to increase the range of the inspect spell? Since it only works at close range I am not sure what it's purpose is. Isn't it so we can decide how to attack an enemy?
Nah, you're supposed to inspect their dead body after killing them! I guess you can sneak up on them too though. You can increase the range, you'll just need to do in in xEdit. I can't remember if its in the MGEF or PROJ record for the spell, but it should be pretty clear when you've found it as it'll be called "range".
Do your overhauls take into account the NPC cheat perks that the vanilla game distributes? Such as extra damage, and damage reduction? Is it best to remove these from most? I maintain SRCEO now and the original mod distributes those perks more frequently than the vanilla game.
My mods leave vanilla perks for NPCs in place. In general you are fine to leave them in. They typically just give some AR or some extra damage. My intuition is that its a bit of a hacky workaround: the easiest way to give enemies extra damage should be to increase their level, but the game gives enemies loads of extra HP per level too, so perks were used to give them extra damage, but not extra health (though the extra AR could just as easily have been health).
For now yes, he may return at some point, I still talk to him via DMs but I have maintained Skyrim Revamped Rebalanced and Releveled for over 5 years and have handled official SRCEO updates since then as well.
I was just concerned how a lot of dwarven stuff has like 50 to 75% damage resistance perk attached to em. some bosses do as well.
Oh wow, I had no idea you were so involved, thanks for your efforts.
What gives dwarven machines 50-75% damage resists? If its in vanilla I'd just leave it. If its in SRCEO you might want to remove it, but its not a huge deal.
vanilla. a lot of dwemer get the crReduced damage perk 0.75, so they would take 3/4 less damage vs physical. SRCEO applies it to a few others which i may remove from. I think I'll also just set the dwemer to use the 0.5 perk instead as SRCEO already gives them other buffs.
You also get a few random bosses vanilla assigns it to like Potema (a skeleton) and Orchendor (a bosmer mage)
Ah, I wasn't aware of that perk in vanilla. KYE2 does remove move vanilla resistances, but not that one, I may remove it at the next update as otherwise KYE2 might make them too tanky. That said, I haven't noticed problems with automata before, so it can't be too bad.
737 comments
Please post below any thoughts, questions or concerns. I try to maintain an active (and friendly) presence in the comments :-)
Thanks for your downloads, comments and endorsements.
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Legions_of_the_Dead
just curious what your guys loadout is..
Do you now bring Axe, sword, hammer/mace In the world? :)
sun + shock
poison + illusion
2h axe + 2h sword
Almost all 2-type builds are fine, though a couple (like fists + shield bashes) will have a hard time.
Armor is definitely quite different though. In this case the KYE1 system has pretty strong compatibility issues and so I wanted a different system to work around that. I also deliberately avoided armor weaknesses as they tended to trivialize fights. Shock is the only one that's left, and that works out okay because as many armors resist shock as are weak to it and the armors that are weak to it are physically potent.
So yeah, overall I think KYE2 is better, but KYE1 is totally still there for those who disagree.
I do also like the costs of destruction spells being adjusted; in vanilla, having the strongest damage type in terms of overall DPS (fire) be the most cost-efficient never really made sense to me - even as a kid. That, and non-enchanted, non-silver weapons working just fine on ghosts.
Yeah, relying on armor material keywords extends really poorly to mod added armors, ended up causing lots of issues.
And yes, glad you like the adjusted spell costs. I always really disliked how fire was so OP in vanilla, and frost, in particular, sucks. I think some spell mods already rebalance costs a bit (e.g. Mysticism maybe?) so just keep an eye out and turn it off if frost spells end up too cheap.
Also checked after reading this; Mysticism's cost changes only really close the gap slightly in comparison to yours, looking at Flames ant Frostbite without Destruction perks.
Wild animals like deer should be pretty low level, so once you invest in archery a bit you should have no problem one-shotting them, even wild a mild sneak attack nerf.
EDIT: But I just realised you added bows as a weakness to animals - so I reckon it might cancel the sneak penalty out?
In general I think imagining sneak attacks as heart shots is a bit of a stretch. For instance, you can sneak attack machines and atronachs that don't have hearts. Similarly, you can never sneak attack a creature that has detected you even though they still have a heart. It seems more to be about catching an enemy unaware. Now why this would do more damage is kinda weird, but its just a fun game mechanic to make sneak more viable.
The bow weakness of animals will pretty much cancel out the sneak attack debuff, yeah.
Another thing that strikes me as odd about the intelligence metric is that if I read your description correctly, it will make Illusion stronger against "unintelligent" enemies such as undead and constructs than against humans, which would just be plain silly. Maybe it would be better to group them as intelligent - conscious - not conscious, with illusions being very effective against conscious (but unintelligent) creatures, but useless against mindless ones.
This does not happen because the KYE2 creature module does not affect the playable (i.e. human) races. So, for instance, both draugr and nords are equally susceptible to illusion (though you'll need the master of the mind perk to affect draugr if using vanilla perks), but dragon priests strongly resist illusion spells.
That said, even if illusion spells were stronger against unintelligent creatures than humans I don't think that would be silly - draugr and skeletons are literally minions and so should be pretty easy to manipulate, meanwhile domestic creatures have been bred for docility and obedience, and so, again, should be pretty susceptible. Given this I think its pretty easy to invent a fantasy world where humans are not the easiest targets of illusion spells. Nonetheless, bethesda clearly did not go down that route (as indicated by the master of the mind perk) and KYE2 does not disagree here.
Thank you for indulging my questions!
As far as combat mods I have Wildcat, Skyrim Revamped, Lawless, KYE2, KYE2 Integration Patch, and KYE - armors (I know that KYE isn't a combat mod per-say, but wanted to include it).
Pardon my lack of lack of knowledge on this. I'm not sure if I just haven't noticed any changed yet or it actually doesn't work. I feel like it should as I'm lv 17 as I'm making this.
Thank you for whoever can help :).
Anyway, the specific error is that the effect intensity for armor effect for NPCs has been set to 0, when the only permitted values are 1, 2, 3 or 4. If you go into the MCM you should be able to change it there. But, as you'll hopefully see, the MCM only lets you set it to 1-4. Do you know how you set it to 0? Let me know if this fix works, and if not, I can try to advise futher.
Let me know if you can see my image! Never used imgur before...
https://imgur.com/a/IFbVGD9
It doesn't seem to show that option, though?
Also, the quantitative value inspect option is gone too for some reason.. I wonder where that went! 0_o
Here is a link to some more screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/9BhL3iH
First, I had KYE2 and KYE2 - armors, I made a new game, fast traveled to an orc camp, and killed some of them to see if they would show resistances. It turns out that there were still not resistances popping up.
I had the KYE2 - armors MCM (shown in screenshots)! But, it didn't seem to change anything as I still wasn't able to get anything from inspecting bodies.
Then, I spawned in some enemies that I thought would have resistances. However, they all showed to have none. I tried both KYE2, Armors, and the integration patch because why not... and that didn't do anything XD...
The armors MCM only showed up when using the integration patch...
So sorry to continue bugging you about this. I just really want to get the mod to work :)!
It's only needed if you are using both KYE2 and KYE2 armors. Even then it isn't strictly necessary, but it does make the two mods work together more seamlessly.
> I tried to run just the patch and I get a message in vortex that I'm missing masters
Yes, if you run the patch but not KYE2 and KYE2 armors, then nothing will work.
> It turns out that there were still not resistances popping up.
This sounds like SPID and KID are not working. Make sure you have them and all their requirements installed correctly. You can check the SPID and KID logs to make sure they are distributing things correctly too.
> The armors MCM only showed up when using the integration patch
It should show up as long as you have KYE 2 armors, regardless of the integration patch. This makes it sound like there is something wrong with your install.
However; is there a way to increase the range of the inspect spell? Since it only works at close range I am not sure what it's purpose is. Isn't it so we can decide how to attack an enemy?
Thanks!
You maintain SRCEO now? Did nightman retire?
I was just concerned how a lot of dwarven stuff has like 50 to 75% damage resistance perk attached to em. some bosses do as well.
What gives dwarven machines 50-75% damage resists? If its in vanilla I'd just leave it. If its in SRCEO you might want to remove it, but its not a huge deal.
You also get a few random bosses vanilla assigns it to like Potema (a skeleton) and Orchendor (a bosmer mage)