Hi, i want to use this mod with Immersive Horses but i'm not using the horse visuals from that mod, so i took the optional esp for bringing vanilla horses back and when i enable this mod the horses wont load up correctly. Is there any way to make it compatible or i'm just dumb and i'm missing something else?
Hi there. Immersive Horses has its horse meshes packed in a BSA file, and I'm not sure how that would solve conflict wise with my mod's loose files. I believe in your case the BSA is taking priority and overwriting my horse meshes. Unfortunately I am no expert in this regard. My best guess would be that you would need to unpack the BSA, replace the horse meshes with my ones and then re-pack the BSA again. I have never done this myself though, so I'm not sure if that would actually solve the issue. Sorry I can't be of more help.
Thanks for replying Pieter82, all my mods are actually unpacked bsa's, using only loose files.. only original game BSAs, DLC's and CC (and USSEP) are loaded with BSA's. I double checked if i was overwriting the files correctly and the conflicting ones are only two assets, horse.nif and shadowmere.nif. I will try tomorrow and see what the esp's are trying to load from Immersive Horses, it could be something else the mod is doing with the default horses.. If i find a solution or something i will tell you! thx :)
Okay, it was actually very easy to fix, the immersive horses - ""vanilla horses"" esp is trying to load some alternate textures from the custom horses not completely vanilla ones... so i just removed the dirty edits to make them completely vanilla, that's it, just make the esp look the same as skyrim.esm [repeat on all 6 Armor Addon edits] And i discovered that this fixes the double mane bug in AE due to mods using custom mesh path for their nifs and the game tries to load vanilla assets, or you could use an invisible mesh for vanilla mane. Hope this helps anyone with Immersive Horses!
Great stuff! Glad you managed to get it sorted. I'm gonna pin your post here for anyone else who might run into the same issue. Thanks for sharing your solution.
I'm looking to install this along with "Realistic Primitive Horse Breeds - Anniversary Update." Which mod should take higher priority in my load order?
Will this work with Immersive Equipment Displays Horse Gear? The author kinda recommends Immersive Horses but tried the same as the sticky comment* and couldn't get it to work, Plus AE is broken on that mod. I'm also using fluffworks textures if that matters.
I believe it should work with the mod, yes. Immersive Equipment Displays Horse Gear only replaces the horse's animation skeleton mesh, so there should be no conflict with my mod.
I never noticed that 😅 It seems to be a texture UV issue that is actually present in the vanilla mesh as well: Screenshot I'll see if there is something I can do about it, though. Thanks for reporting it.
I tried all the versions listed for SE/AE applicable. -The non KK horses ones are not swaping out the new horse breed meshes, only the generic base horse. -I don't use fluffyworks, so those are not right. -The ones marked for KK use (AE or SE) cause double manes.
After a bit of serching I found out all the ports of Kritta Kitty's mod are straight from LE, and done incorrectly for SE/AE.
In SE/AE the horses mane works like the characters hair, wearing a helmet will hide your hair and not wearing one will show your hair. No horse has a mane so you can equip CC horse armors without them clipping, and a mane gets equiped if not wearing CC horse armor.
It seems like this mod is only for vanilla SE/AE horses and LE KK horses. (due to the mane being on the horse and the game adding another one if CC horse armor isn't equiped, which is the default state of 99.99% of the horses in the game.)
Since I used mainly the SE version in my VR mod list, I never realized that I did not remove the manes from the Kritta Kitty horses for the patch until I recently started focusing on my flatscreen AE mod list again.
I currently have this exact issue on my list of updates I still need to get to.
I was working on a patch and come across a few issues that are above my knowledge of meshes.
1- no HP unicorn meshes (for AE) meshes\creationclub\bgssse034\actors\unicorn.nif meshes\creationclub\bgssse034\actors\unicornmane.nif was gonna see if a simple copy and paste of the horn block into a regular horse mesh works or not
2- no HP horse armor (for AE) meshes\creationclub\bgssse0011\armor\horse\elven\elvenarmor.nif meshes\creationclub\bgssse0011\armor\horse\elven\elvenarmorgo.nif meshes\creationclub\bgssse0011\armor\horse\elven\elvenarmorunicorn.nif meshes\creationclub\bgssse0012\armor\horse\steel\steelarmor.nif meshes\creationclub\bgssse0012\armor\horse\steel\steelarmorgo.nif meshes\creationclub\bgssse0012\armor\horse\steel\steelarmorunicorn.nif this depends on how the LP versions fit on the HP horses
3- the mane meshes are low poly(the place it shows the most) was gonna try and rename the whole horse w\mane mesh to replace the mane remove the body block to keep all the rigging and nodes but I don't know how to remove the extra tail and unused stuff(to keep it clean) and I'm not sure if keeping the block order\name is important to the texture swapping of the mane colors block order should be OK as it will only be one block, the mane.
Unfortunately I do not use / own any creation club items (apart from the stuff included with AE) so I can't check on those. I include a high poly version of the mane for the AE base horse, but FLuffWorks and Kitty's horses were never made to be used with the independent mane introduced in AE. This probably means they will make use of the vanilla mane that wont match the color of the horse. Unfortunately I believe this is something that would need to be fixed with a plugin, and I do not have the know how for that. This is all stuff I still need to test on my end for the update I'm working on. As far as swopping colors/textures for the manes, I believe the block order of the mesh is indeed important as I think the number and/or name of the block is referenced in the plugin to make the swop. But I have no experience with this, I'm just guessing. I have had issues with similar references in the past, though.
OK got it working, easy fix after I stopped overthinking it.
-installed Realistic Primitive Horse Breeds Anniversary Edition -deleted it's mesh folder (just need the .esp and textures) -Installed you HPVH for Realistic Horse Breeds AE file -downloaded your main file and dragged the HP mane into the folder to replace the LP one -coppied your HP tail mesh block from the vanilla horse into the clipboard -opened up each horse mesh and removed the main/tail block -pasted in the HP tail -reset the texture links back to the original tail color for that horse -made the folder for the unicorn and placed in a remaned copy of your vanilla HP horse -pasted in the the horn block from the CC unicorn unpacked BSA -reset all the texture paths back to the CC textures(they are better than vanilla horeses) -made a lightened version of KK's Frost mane/tail texture to repace the CC one (didn't work right on you mesh, UV map off, alpha issues) -coppied the unicorn mane into the loose folder to override the CC BSA(it is more HP than vanilla,lower than yours) -applied your manes alpha properties to the CC one(it was mostly invisable with KK textures) -streached the UV map in one direction so KK texture wasn't getting cut off abruptly(unicorn mane is alot longer than a vanilla horse)
It all seems to work, since each horse has its own mesh, they all use the texture assigned by their mesh. RPHBAE's esp applies the right mesh to the right horse, and should swaps the right mane texture to the right horse. Since the mane is only one block, block order shouldn't be important, just gotta check in game to make sure it is swaping right, or if it's using the mesh assigned texture. That would be a block name issue if not.
So, I did the same thing with the base KK horses (no CC stuff) and it seems that the plugin from Realistic Primitive Horse Breeds Anniversary Edition does indeed swop the correct colors to the manes. But I then noticed that my high poly mane sits just a little bit to high, creating a gap between the horses neck and the mane. Did you notice this with the CC horses? I'll be editing my high poly mane mesh to fix this and am planning to upload it in the next update.
The only difference between KK horses and vanilla horses are the texture paths to get the different "breeds". The new meshes are then referenced in the plugin to get them in game. I believe it would be possible to do this by simply adding 'texture swopping' to the vanilla horse mesh via the plugin, but maybe KK did not know how to do this, and thus went the multiple mesh route (I would have done the same).
I have the new mane mesh sorted but I have realized that the original KK will not work with AE, because the plugin does not add the separate mane mesh to the new KK horses. So when it comes to horse armor, you can either have clipping issues (with my original patch) or the KK horse will be missing their manes completely (if removed from the mesh like vanilla horse). This issue is what gets resolved by Realistic Privative Horse Breeds AE. I've decided to rather replace my KK AE version with one for Realistic Privative Horse Breeds AE instead.
CC horse meshes are anything that is located in 'meshes/creationclub/...' I assume. Thus the unicorn and horse armor as per your previous comments.
In LE the easiest way for KK was to add new meshes because they could asign textures to each horse thru the mesh. The vanilla texture sets only had 2 mane colors. Patching in the the new mane color texture sets along with the horse body sets would be more work that wasn't really required for LE to get the job done. After the update esm was changed for SE/AE, adding in the texture sets would have been the better route, but nobody could have seen 12 years into the future. Also in vanilla I think the horse texture swap are random, not isolating one breed to a hold, totally new breed meshes with assigned textures helps there by overwiting vanilla horse records.
But I was asking about the meshes in your mod. Your HP vanilla horse has a very smooth poly layout, and the HP KK horses have a different less uniform poly layout. Just wondering why they arn't all based off your HP vanilla horse . If the KK based meshes have any slight shape change, you could get clipping in the saddles,manes and armors, which are all built for the vanilla based mesh.
At this point redoing KK's mod with only 2 horse meshes, would be the cleanest way to go. -skyrim esm already swaps the horse textures -Shadowmere has his own mesh and assigned textures -CC wild horses esp just adds more texture set swaps using vanilla meshes(horses,manes and saddles) -CC unicorn is a new mesh with his own assinged textures because of the horn(other than that he is a vanilla horse) Renaming KK's textures to replace vanilla textures Removing KK's horse breed mesh records ,so Shadowmere's gowing eye mesh is the only mesh with asigned textures. Let the Update esm handle the mane/armor swaps(which it does anyway, as no mod makes changes to it to stops it from causing the double mane (not really a bug) bug. Let Realistic Primitive Horse Breeds For AE esp do the mane color swaps. It would need the texture Swap for Frost added to it("Armor add-on" instead of armor added on) Then everything would be working through vanilla skyrim/update esm and wouldn't need any patches.
I know you can apply texture sets with SPID, I'm gonna look into that. There might be a way to apply the textures per hold and convert KK's mod into a "no patch needed" mod with only vanilla meshes.
You seem a lot more knowledgeable on Skyrim horses than I am My HP KK horse meshes are just copies of my vanilla horse mesh with different textures assigned (if I remember correctly). I'll have to double check when I'm at my PC again for any discrepancies. Or do you mean the mane meshes are different from the vanilla horse?
You're right they are all the same mesh, I thought some has a different poly count, Shadowmere has a few more polys because of the glowing eye mesh, and the older KK horse had more because the mane was included, but now they are all the same.
Yeah looking into all the stupid quirks of the vanilla horses, and trying to figure out why every horse mod needs 10 patches to work with every other mod made me think something ain't right! Either vanilla horses were pooly implemented. (they're not,the patch in the update esm breaks almost all older horse mods) or horse mods are doing things wrong. Most of them don't account for the update esm and you get mane problems. Some only change some of the horses while leaving some vanilla, leaving you wondering why some horses are fine and some are messed up, and endlessly serching for patches. Alot of the patches fix a specific problem but overwite changes made by another patch leaving you in and endless loop of load order swapping. If i have to make custom patches to patch one patch to another patch, I'm just gonna fix the horse mods to not need any patches, I hate having 2 horse mod esps, a esp to make them work togeather and 10 more esps fixing all the little problems present in the horse mods, or from using them togeather.
KK mod only has a few standout features -excellent textures(for being only 2K) -gives Shadowmere his own almost black texture(can be done directly on his unique mesh) -gives Frost his own almost pure white texture(can be done by adding a new mesh, a texture set, or maybe though SPID) -asigns each horse breed to a hold (weighed up aginst mananging 13 patches just for horses, i'll do without it, but maybe can be done through SPID) other than that, it's changes just breaks things and causes the need for patches. Most of which are ported from LE patches not accounting for the update esm.
I know this is a little old, but the KK horses are just vanilla horses with new textures. When I updated them for AE, I thought they were a custom mesh, but found they were not. So I just pulled the SE horse and mane mesh from the Skyrim.bsa and renamed everything. I had considered only doing texture sets, but I honestly don't remember why I didn't look further at it. I think it was the eye textures. Maybe I should look at it again here and see if I can't make it more compatible with any replacers. Thank you for the patch.
Edit: When I swapped the mod to using only texture sets, your meshes didn't work properly because the nif blocks are out of order from the vanilla horse mesh blocks. You can reorder those to match the vanilla blocks and then they will work properly with retextures.
It should, as it is only a mesh replacer. I can not confirm this though, as have rolled back my AE to SE V1.5.97 so I can carry on developing and testing SKSE dependent mods.
Oh, okay, but SKSE has been updated, and from what I've seen, all of the most important SKSE dependant mods have also been updated. Thanks for the quick awnser!
Thanks for the update. Last time I checked, even though SKSE was updated, a lot of the dependent mods still had to be updated and I was in the middle of testing a new release. So I decided to just roll back until the dust has settled. Luckily my main mod list is for VR (witch is unaffected by the AE update) and I mainly use SE/AE to test mods in development and take screen shots for my mod pages ;D
I noticed with the horse Queen Alfsigr in Whiterun, if I look at her from the side while riding, the cloak constantly clips/tears.
Here's how the cloak looks normally from the side.
Now notice the area with the green box around it, part of the cloak missing.
Every few steps I take, it constantly does this every few seconds, part of the cloak disappear/clipping and reappearing.
Your mod is not causing this, nor am I familar with any of my mods that would cause this to the horse, and I was hoping, since you made this High Poly mod for the horses, that it might be within the scope of your mod, that you could possibly figure this out and create a fix for it?
That seems to be an issue with how the horse mesh transforms during animation, causing it to clip through the saddle mesh. I believe this has something to do with the bone weight values assigned to the animation skeleton (I did not change this with my mod), but I have very limited knowledge about this so I could be wrong. Do you have the same issue when disabling my mod, so when using the vanilla horse mesh?
Something you can try is Heartland Horses. It makes changes to the animation skeleton and is safe to install and remove mid save for testing.
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JumpImmersive Horses has its horse meshes packed in a BSA file, and I'm not sure how that would solve conflict wise with my mod's loose files. I believe in your case the BSA is taking priority and overwriting my horse meshes.
Unfortunately I am no expert in this regard.
My best guess would be that you would need to unpack the BSA, replace the horse meshes with my ones and then re-pack the BSA again. I have never done this myself though, so I'm not sure if that would actually solve the issue.
Sorry I can't be of more help.
And i discovered that this fixes the double mane bug in AE due to mods using custom mesh path for their nifs and the game tries to load vanilla assets, or you could use an invisible mesh for vanilla mane.
Hope this helps anyone with Immersive Horses!
https://i.imgur.com/zY4LLoy.png
Glad you managed to get it sorted.
I'm gonna pin your post here for anyone else who might run into the same issue.
Thanks for sharing your solution.
It seems to be a texture UV issue that is actually present in the vanilla mesh as well: Screenshot
I'll see if there is something I can do about it, though.
Thanks for reporting it.
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/79243
I tried all the versions listed for SE/AE applicable.
-The non KK horses ones are not swaping out the new horse breed meshes, only the generic base horse.
-I don't use fluffyworks, so those are not right.
-The ones marked for KK use (AE or SE) cause double manes.
After a bit of serching I found out all the ports of Kritta Kitty's mod are straight from LE, and done incorrectly for SE/AE.
In SE/AE the horses mane works like the characters hair, wearing a helmet will hide your hair and not wearing one will show your hair.
No horse has a mane so you can equip CC horse armors without them clipping, and a mane gets equiped if not wearing CC horse armor.
It seems like this mod is only for vanilla SE/AE horses and LE KK horses. (due to the mane being on the horse and the game adding another one if CC horse armor isn't equiped, which is the default state of 99.99% of the horses in the game.)
Since I used mainly the SE version in my VR mod list, I never realized that I did not remove the manes from the Kritta Kitty horses for the patch until I recently started focusing on my flatscreen AE mod list again.
I currently have this exact issue on my list of updates I still need to get to.
Thanks for the reminder, though
1- no HP unicorn meshes (for AE)
meshes\creationclub\bgssse034\actors\unicorn.nif
meshes\creationclub\bgssse034\actors\unicornmane.nif
was gonna see if a simple copy and paste of the horn block into a regular horse mesh works or not
2- no HP horse armor (for AE)
meshes\creationclub\bgssse0011\armor\horse\elven\elvenarmor.nif
meshes\creationclub\bgssse0011\armor\horse\elven\elvenarmorgo.nif
meshes\creationclub\bgssse0011\armor\horse\elven\elvenarmorunicorn.nif
meshes\creationclub\bgssse0012\armor\horse\steel\steelarmor.nif
meshes\creationclub\bgssse0012\armor\horse\steel\steelarmorgo.nif
meshes\creationclub\bgssse0012\armor\horse\steel\steelarmorunicorn.nif
this depends on how the LP versions fit on the HP horses
3- the mane meshes are low poly(the place it shows the most)
was gonna try and rename the whole horse w\mane mesh to replace the mane
remove the body block to keep all the rigging and nodes
but I don't know how to remove the extra tail and unused stuff(to keep it clean)
and I'm not sure if keeping the block order\name is important to the texture swapping of the mane colors
block order should be OK as it will only be one block, the mane.
I include a high poly version of the mane for the AE base horse, but FLuffWorks and Kitty's horses were never made to be used with the independent mane introduced in AE. This probably means they will make use of the vanilla mane that wont match the color of the horse. Unfortunately I believe this is something that would need to be fixed with a plugin, and I do not have the know how for that. This is all stuff I still need to test on my end for the update I'm working on.
As far as swopping colors/textures for the manes, I believe the block order of the mesh is indeed important as I think the number and/or name of the block is referenced in the plugin to make the swop. But I have no experience with this, I'm just guessing. I have had issues with similar references in the past, though.
-installed Realistic Primitive Horse Breeds Anniversary Edition
-deleted it's mesh folder (just need the .esp and textures)
-Installed you HPVH for Realistic Horse Breeds AE file
-downloaded your main file and dragged the HP mane into the folder to replace the LP one
-coppied your HP tail mesh block from the vanilla horse into the clipboard
-opened up each horse mesh and removed the main/tail block
-pasted in the HP tail
-reset the texture links back to the original tail color for that horse
-made the folder for the unicorn and placed in a remaned copy of your vanilla HP horse
-pasted in the the horn block from the CC unicorn unpacked BSA
-reset all the texture paths back to the CC textures(they are better than vanilla horeses)
-made a lightened version of KK's Frost mane/tail texture to repace the CC one (didn't work right on you mesh, UV map off, alpha issues)
-coppied the unicorn mane into the loose folder to override the CC BSA(it is more HP than vanilla,lower than yours)
-applied your manes alpha properties to the CC one(it was mostly invisable with KK textures)
-streached the UV map in one direction so KK texture wasn't getting cut off abruptly(unicorn mane is alot longer than a vanilla horse)
It all seems to work, since each horse has its own mesh, they all use the texture assigned by their mesh.
RPHBAE's esp applies the right mesh to the right horse, and should swaps the right mane texture to the right horse.
Since the mane is only one block, block order shouldn't be important, just gotta check in game to make sure it is swaping right, or if it's using the mesh assigned texture. That would be a block name issue if not.
I'll be editing my high poly mane mesh to fix this and am planning to upload it in the next update.
Why is there a different mesh for KK horses anway, they have the same UV layout as vanilla horses?? are they a differnt shape?
Yeah sinking the mane at the attachment point into the horse mesh wouldn't hurt anything.
The new meshes are then referenced in the plugin to get them in game. I believe it would be possible to do this by simply adding 'texture swopping' to the vanilla horse mesh via the plugin, but maybe KK did not know how to do this, and thus went the multiple mesh route (I would have done the same).
I have the new mane mesh sorted but I have realized that the original KK will not work with AE, because the plugin does not add the separate mane mesh to the new KK horses. So when it comes to horse armor, you can either have clipping issues (with my original patch) or the KK horse will be missing their manes completely (if removed from the mesh like vanilla horse). This issue is what gets resolved by Realistic Privative Horse Breeds AE. I've decided to rather replace my KK AE version with one for Realistic Privative Horse Breeds AE instead.
CC horse meshes are anything that is located in 'meshes/creationclub/...' I assume. Thus the unicorn and horse armor as per your previous comments.
But I was asking about the meshes in your mod.
Your HP vanilla horse has a very smooth poly layout, and the HP KK horses have a different less uniform poly layout.
Just wondering why they arn't all based off your HP vanilla horse . If the KK based meshes have any slight shape change, you could get clipping in the saddles,manes and armors, which are all built for the vanilla based mesh.
At this point redoing KK's mod with only 2 horse meshes, would be the cleanest way to go.
-skyrim esm already swaps the horse textures
-Shadowmere has his own mesh and assigned textures
-CC wild horses esp just adds more texture set swaps using vanilla meshes(horses,manes and saddles)
-CC unicorn is a new mesh with his own assinged textures because of the horn(other than that he is a vanilla horse)
Renaming KK's textures to replace vanilla textures
Removing KK's horse breed mesh records ,so Shadowmere's gowing eye mesh is the only mesh with asigned textures.
Let the Update esm handle the mane/armor swaps(which it does anyway, as no mod makes changes to it to stops it from causing the double mane (not really a bug) bug.
Let Realistic Primitive Horse Breeds For AE esp do the mane color swaps. It would need the texture Swap for Frost added to it("Armor add-on" instead of armor added on)
Then everything would be working through vanilla skyrim/update esm and wouldn't need any patches.
I know you can apply texture sets with SPID, I'm gonna look into that. There might be a way to apply the textures per hold and convert KK's mod into a "no patch needed" mod with only vanilla meshes.
My HP KK horse meshes are just copies of my vanilla horse mesh with different textures assigned (if I remember correctly). I'll have to double check when I'm at my PC again for any discrepancies. Or do you mean the mane meshes are different from the vanilla horse?
Yeah looking into all the stupid quirks of the vanilla horses, and trying to figure out why every horse mod needs 10 patches to work with every other mod made me think something ain't right! Either vanilla horses were pooly implemented. (they're not,the patch in the update esm breaks almost all older horse mods) or horse mods are doing things wrong. Most of them don't account for the update esm and you get mane problems. Some only change some of the horses while leaving some vanilla, leaving you wondering why some horses are fine and some are messed up, and endlessly serching for patches. Alot of the patches fix a specific problem but overwite changes made by another patch leaving you in and endless loop of load order swapping. If i have to make custom patches to patch one patch to another patch, I'm just gonna fix the horse mods to not need any patches, I hate having 2 horse mod esps, a esp to make them work togeather and 10 more esps fixing all the little problems present in the horse mods, or from using them togeather.
KK mod only has a few standout features
-excellent textures(for being only 2K)
-gives Shadowmere his own almost black texture(can be done directly on his unique mesh)
-gives Frost his own almost pure white texture(can be done by adding a new mesh, a texture set, or maybe though SPID)
-asigns each horse breed to a hold (weighed up aginst mananging 13 patches just for horses, i'll do without it, but maybe can be done through SPID)
other than that, it's changes just breaks things and causes the need for patches. Most of which are ported from LE patches not accounting for the update esm.
Edit: When I swapped the mod to using only texture sets, your meshes didn't work properly because the nif blocks are out of order from the vanilla horse mesh blocks. You can reorder those to match the vanilla blocks and then they will work properly with retextures.
(the last main file patch)
I can not confirm this though, as have rolled back my AE to SE V1.5.97 so I can carry on developing and testing SKSE dependent mods.
Last time I checked, even though SKSE was updated, a lot of the dependent mods still had to be updated and I was in the middle of testing a new release. So I decided to just roll back until the dust has settled. Luckily my main mod list is for VR (witch is unaffected by the AE update) and I mainly use SE/AE to test mods in development and take screen shots for my mod pages ;D
First let me say, thanks for this amazing mod, makes the horses look much nicer.
I'm running SSE 1.6.640.0 and these are the only two horse mods I'm using besides yours;
HD Reworked Horses 2K-1K
Simplest Horses (and other mounts)
I noticed with the horse Queen Alfsigr in Whiterun, if I look at her from the side while riding, the cloak constantly clips/tears.
Here's how the cloak looks normally from the side.
Now notice the area with the green box around it, part of the cloak missing.
Every few steps I take, it constantly does this every few seconds, part of the cloak disappear/clipping and reappearing.
Your mod is not causing this, nor am I familar with any of my mods that would cause this to the horse, and I was hoping, since you made this High Poly mod for the horses, that it might be within the scope of your mod, that you could possibly figure this out and create a fix for it?
THANKS
That seems to be an issue with how the horse mesh transforms during animation, causing it to clip through the saddle mesh. I believe this has something to do with the bone weight values assigned to the animation skeleton (I did not change this with my mod), but I have very limited knowledge about this so I could be wrong.
Do you have the same issue when disabling my mod, so when using the vanilla horse mesh?
Something you can try is Heartland Horses. It makes changes to the animation skeleton and is safe to install and remove mid save for testing.
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