Note: This mod is being reworked a bit to become even more modular. I still have plans to create other mods that all work together to increase the game difficulty, introduce survival mechanics, and rebalance things. My original thought was to have fewer mods cover larger areas of rebalancing. However, after some feedback, I've decided to go a little more modular.
Introducing Eat.Drink.Sleep.
To get things kicked off, I've created the Eat.Drink.Sleep. mod that handles those new mechanics requiring you to eat, drink, and sleep. That mod will also cover other food adjustments and will eventually include some new quests and more.
The Rest
The equipment/weapon weights found in this mod will eventually be put into a separate mod. I like having to plan what to take with me on a mission. I'm still waiting for more feedback on that one, but it's simple enough to keep as a separate mod.
The environmental damage adjustments will be put on hold for now. I'm waiting to see how Deadly Hazards and Deadly Afflictions work out. SacePigeonTV is doing some fantastic work there and that's a very large area of the game. So it'll be great to divide and conquer so to speak. I'm going to continue to keep my eye out for any economy, mission, and combat rebalancing mods that may be complimentary here as well. As always, please share opinions and discoveries as I appreciate the feedback and ideas.
A thought to see if this would be possible to integrate. You know how if you remove your suit or your pack in an environment where you can't breath kills you in a short period of time. What if removing the suit worked that way, but removing your pack drains your oxygen. Wouldn't that be more realistic/immersive?
So, pretty sure I'm getting a bug here, unfortunately. I had radiation and burns wittling down my health at the very last bit, then had to leave. Those saves won't load now. Loving this mod otherwise.
Are you healing with something that has the matching icon? I didn't update anything here other than the strength of those afflictions. The save load issue was specifically related to the starvation spell. Do you know which version you're using? The modified date on the file can help me figure that out if you don't have the original zip file or can't recall.
Also, what exact steps did you go through to get into this state? I can work on trying to reproduce it. Thanks!
So, I put it in right before going through the unity into a new NG+. Then I went to a random planet, found a base to ransack for weapons and such, and then went back to my ship. I went through a random event (the one with the irradiated derelict ship), right? Then I went back to my ship where I'd built a bed and tried to sleep. My health was low and I was actively taking damage from the effects, so it wouldn't let me.
Save/quit.
Then the save wouldn't load.
Maybe it's related to starvation? Or maybe it's another mod? If it's another mod, that's great news, as I love this one.
Can you load another random save game (which do not use the mod yet - otherwise you have to wait a real life hour) and sleep for an hour+ ? you should get starvation. save a new save off that one and try to load it. It should load again if you have the latest version. This was the test I went through to reproduce the bug and then to resolve it as well. The version on any zip file, etc. should read at 0.1.1 and the ESM file should have a date modified of 11/2/2023 (or later). If it's earlier, you maybe still have the broken version.
Do you have auto saves of some sort so you're not set back that far?
Everybody knew the risk of using premature mods made with xEdit. So no worries. I clean saved it, and it kept the "weather incoming" affliction on my stats, so I was using "player. dispel 281ed2" to remove it.
However, I see no reason why you could not upload anything BUT the hunger/starvation parts. The changes to weight, afflictions and everything else was very welcome.
Edit: If I'm not wrong you can already apply check for exiting game via Papyrus. So just remove the magic effect from player on exiting game, or exit save or whatever, and add it back on load.
Thanks. That's what I was trying to find, some sort of event to just remove the spell for safety. Even though that means you don't technically need to eat, it's at least something. I'll keep looking for an event like that.
The latest version 0.1.1 has a fix, thanks to SpacePigeonTV's suggestion. Be sure it's the 0.1.1 file (I archived the other files) the file modified date is 11/2/2023. Don't use anything from October. It won't fix a save that was already messed up unfortunately, but it won't break new saves.
Trying out the full mod and I really love it I feel like it's a bit powerful tho, I modded my gear to have a ton of enviro resist stats and yet a minute in the environment causes me an effect Here's what kinda gear stats I'm wearing
2 spacesuits (starborn cape for mando mods & my bounty hunter) both with 80-130 between the various enviro stats pack 100-140 helm 80-100 neurcom 70-100 outfit 40-75
with this type of gear I should be fully protected at least for 10+ minutes I'd love if this mod could get a version that was around the 10 minute mark
Yea, it is really powerful in terms of the afflictions. They basically shut you down and I wanted them to...to a degree. You need to be quick to seek shelter. The damage soak here is the thing to tinker with. I didn't know what would be enough time. I timed running 1,000m and thought that might be a good distance to cover plus a little extra. I think that was around 3.5 minutes. I can probably double or maybe triple the timing here. That would get you to the 10 minutes (can you believe the base game only has 1 minute here?!).
I think I can make the spacesuit mod have a stronger bonus too. Possibly make it so you don't need to do as much research as well, unlocking it sooner.
Though I'm probably going to switch this entire mod around and make it more of an eat, sleep, drink thing (and all the food stuff - I have some more planned). Make a separate equipment weight adjustment mod. Then suggest people use the Deadly Hazards mod for environmental adjustments. SpacePigeonTV also mentioned a "Deadly Afflictions" mod. I think the afflictions go hand in hand with the environmental stuff, so I'm waiting to see how those mods get set up and how Deadly Hazards 1.0 shakes out before touching anything else in this area. It's a VERY big area to be working in and I want to avoid conflicts when using both and also just redundancy. There's a lot of other game balancing stuff out there that I think needs to be solved (missions, economy, combat). This mod and the next mods I have planned are going to be a process of adjusting, collecting feedback, and fine tuning. It's really hard to do it any other way. Unless everyone wants to hang out in a room with a whiteboard with me :)
Ultimately the goal for me here is to just better balance the game. Increase the challenge and make use of some of the features in the game that are just utterly pointless to include. I'm still shocked they built out all these things only for them to go to waste. I mean I never even used the pharmaceutical lab in the game until I made my mod. Hundreds of hours and absolutely no use for that entire research tree and crafting station.
I like the spacesuit mod I have so I'm going to see if it would conflict with Deadly Hazards or not (I don't think it should given it's an item modification that applies a bonus to something, not modifying the actual objects, but adding completely new ones). I hate to separate that out in another mod, but fortunately it's so off to the side that I can include it anyway. I might add some modificaitons for equipment too.
Ok, so about my suggestions regarding a patch or additional features. Seems this mod safely overwrites the food related stuff, while allowing Realistic Consumables' alcohol, chems, coffee and tea related changes to still function. So I guess I would only want water added as a separate debuff, in the same mod, or separate and of course sleep. If possible, please add a more hardcore version too. Health drain is fine but I think hunger should have a carry weight debuff, like 25-50%, and water, dehydration, maybe movement speed debuff to slow you. Sleep deprivation could prevent any and all XP gain since your mind can't retain info or something, along with others. I'd love to see different things with this mod. We have about 6 months til CK and/or likely an official Survival Mode, so this is a very welcome mod. Especially for people who aren't on steam and can't use SCUM due to being unable to use SFSE. Anyways, I've been loving it so far so I really just wanted a reason to eat, etc. Can't wait for more additions and I am only throwing ideas out there. Do what you think sounds cool with the skill and tools you have. Great mod. Endorsed.
Looking into this. I think thirst as separate and sleep is going to be the next thing I do here. I did want to consider the damage rate. I wanted to get some feedback on it first. I'm trying to be mindful about a balance for these mechanics. Trying to avoid too much of a chore and trying to avoid it being pointless too. I think the consensus so far is that the damage isn't strong enough and in some cases depending on your perks, it's completely mitigated. So I'll be looking to boost this soon. I just got done fixing a pretty nasty bug. So be sure you get the latest version!
Yeah remember a debuff isn't always about being damage. You could have reduced resistance, you could become slow, you could have less carry weight. Etc, etc. Lots of things to consider. Even in regard to slowly losing health. There are other things you could do instead of health drain like health reduction or less effective with weapons, etc, etc. Lots of ideas. Just do you. I'm just throwing things out there. My opinion on sleep, is complete loss of XP gain(among other things) since as I said no way to retain info(xp). Plus sleeping gives an xp bonus, so the opposite kinda makes sense. But yeah, I would love to see this become an even better mod. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for the ideas! I definitely will vary the effects. I like the loss of XP on sleep deprivation. I want to find survey folks I think too...I want to see if I should separate all of the effects into a separate mod and keep the equipment weights and environmental damage separate. I don't like having to manage a ton of different mods (not just build them but I mean install and use them, I think having a common theme is better than having to install a ton of mods, I don't really get mods that have one tiny tweak sometimes). That said, I did want to have a bit of modularity in my set of mods, this is actually just the first one in a whole set of game rebalancing mods. So I don't know, I might focus on "eat sleep drink" next and keep it separate.
Anyway you could do starvation only again? Using the entire Mod turns on my fall damage again which I turned off for using the jetpack all the time was annoyed with getting fractures and sprains from landing from slightly too high I'm also now using Realistic consumables are they compatible if I load this mod after that mod
On Form ID XX000812, the SML_HungerQuest_Injury_Starvation_1spell, try doing the following:
EFIF - Unknown: 0 on all effects. MUID - Unknown: 1 on the first, 2 on the second, 3 on the third, etc. It doesn't matter that much according to my testing so far, but it can't be 0 at least.
Having no EFIF or MUID, or having them added but set to 0 on both, causes this very exact issue!
I had this issue myself today.
I haven't tried it yet to see if it fixes it for your mod, but I see you have 2 effects without EFIF and MUID on your spell that controls starvation, so I suspect this is all it takes to fix the issue, and it's worth a shot!! :D
Very interested to see where this goes. Another mechanic I'd love to see added at some point is suit punctures, which begin depleting your oxygen and can only be stopped (not replenishing your O2, just stopping the leak) with "patch kits" which need to be found or purchased like any other first aid item. I imagine spacesuits and bullets wouldn't mix too well. Combat in hostile planetary environments would be absurdly dangerous. And let's not even contemplate what would happen to the poor sod who got hit with a whitehot round if the suits are maintaining a pure oxygen environment inside... in vacuum, your friends wouldn't even realize why you were shrieking incoherently on the radio until they saw flames blazing uncontrollably inside your visor.
Yea, that was one of my first thoughts when I started playing. "Aren't we punching holes in our suits when shooting at each other?" I also think that instead of Oxygen being depleted by sprinting etc, it should be consumed at a rate relative to the gravity you're in. Something reasonable like a half hour to an hour supply. And you would have to either reload your oxygen tank or go into a habitable area for a few to reload it. The Co2 effect could/would kick in when you run out of O2. And you only have a few min to get more. What is it? Two min of useful consciousness without Oxygen? That would be a way better mechanic for O2 in my humble opinion.
Tonight I discovered that I couldn't load a save if the starvation disease affect was active. I loaded a previous save without incident. Exited, reloaded just fine. Waited for the starvation effect to return. Exited and could not load the save. CTD before entering the game world. I also noticed that with the regen skill at max, all that ends up happening is that you constantly have the regen effect going on. I wonder if there's an issue there. XEdit isn't showing any conflict. I was curious if others can confirm this?
I'll try those steps to see if I can reproduce. When you load a save it will register some listeners. I don't know why that would prevent loading another game but I'll check. Maybe deregistering the listeners somewhere will better help that scenario.
...I couldn't reproduce that, but I'll keep trying. For the other thing, what's the regen skill you're talking about? Health? I think someone noted that the starvation effect may not be strong enough to matter. That's one thing I'm looking at adjusting.
Under the Physical tree, lower right corner. Rejuvenation: Regenerate 2% of maximum health per second outside of combat. Retain half of your health regeneration in combat. Rank 4/4.
When I had the starvation effective active, I noticed the "sparkle" effect around the feet that indicated the rejuvenation was active. Health never dropped below 100%.
I'll experiment and see if I can figure out why it would load the save with the starvation disease active.
I see, thanks. I'll tweak the damage rate if I can get this bug fixed. It's pretty wicked and makes no sense. Really not sure how this new spell would be any different than the other spells. I reviewed all of the values and went through it a few times, but I just got back from a work trip and I'm exhausted so I could be missing something. I'll look some more tomorrow. Good catch here and thanks for letting me know.
75 comments
Introducing Eat.Drink.Sleep.
To get things kicked off, I've created the Eat.Drink.Sleep. mod that handles those new mechanics requiring you to eat, drink, and sleep. That mod will also cover other food adjustments and will eventually include some new quests and more.
The Rest
The equipment/weapon weights found in this mod will eventually be put into a separate mod. I like having to plan what to take with me on a mission. I'm still waiting for more feedback on that one, but it's simple enough to keep as a separate mod.
The environmental damage adjustments will be put on hold for now. I'm waiting to see how Deadly Hazards and Deadly Afflictions work out. SacePigeonTV is doing some fantastic work there and that's a very large area of the game. So it'll be great to divide and conquer so to speak. I'm going to continue to keep my eye out for any economy, mission, and combat rebalancing mods that may be complimentary here as well. As always, please share opinions and discoveries as I appreciate the feedback and ideas.
Also, what exact steps did you go through to get into this state? I can work on trying to reproduce it. Thanks!
So, I put it in right before going through the unity into a new NG+. Then I went to a random planet, found a base to ransack for weapons and such, and then went back to my ship. I went through a random event (the one with the irradiated derelict ship), right? Then I went back to my ship where I'd built a bed and tried to sleep. My health was low and I was actively taking damage from the effects, so it wouldn't let me.
Save/quit.
Then the save wouldn't load.
Maybe it's related to starvation? Or maybe it's another mod? If it's another mod, that's great news, as I love this one.
Do you have auto saves of some sort so you're not set back that far?
Everybody knew the risk of using premature mods made with xEdit. So no worries. I clean saved it, and it kept the "weather incoming" affliction on my stats, so I was using "player. dispel 281ed2" to remove it.
However, I see no reason why you could not upload anything BUT the hunger/starvation parts. The changes to weight, afflictions and everything else was very welcome.
Edit: If I'm not wrong you can already apply check for exiting game via Papyrus. So just remove the magic effect from player on exiting game, or exit save or whatever, and add it back on load.
Here's what kinda gear stats I'm wearing
2 spacesuits (starborn cape for mando mods & my bounty hunter) both with 80-130 between the various enviro stats
pack 100-140
helm 80-100
neurcom 70-100
outfit 40-75
with this type of gear I should be fully protected at least for 10+ minutes
I'd love if this mod could get a version that was around the 10 minute mark
I think I can make the spacesuit mod have a stronger bonus too. Possibly make it so you don't need to do as much research as well, unlocking it sooner.
Though I'm probably going to switch this entire mod around and make it more of an eat, sleep, drink thing (and all the food stuff - I have some more planned). Make a separate equipment weight adjustment mod. Then suggest people use the Deadly Hazards mod for environmental adjustments. SpacePigeonTV also mentioned a "Deadly Afflictions" mod. I think the afflictions go hand in hand with the environmental stuff, so I'm waiting to see how those mods get set up and how Deadly Hazards 1.0 shakes out before touching anything else in this area. It's a VERY big area to be working in and I want to avoid conflicts when using both and also just redundancy. There's a lot of other game balancing stuff out there that I think needs to be solved (missions, economy, combat). This mod and the next mods I have planned are going to be a process of adjusting, collecting feedback, and fine tuning. It's really hard to do it any other way. Unless everyone wants to hang out in a room with a whiteboard with me :)
Ultimately the goal for me here is to just better balance the game. Increase the challenge and make use of some of the features in the game that are just utterly pointless to include. I'm still shocked they built out all these things only for them to go to waste. I mean I never even used the pharmaceutical lab in the game until I made my mod. Hundreds of hours and absolutely no use for that entire research tree and crafting station.
I like the spacesuit mod I have so I'm going to see if it would conflict with Deadly Hazards or not (I don't think it should given it's an item modification that applies a bonus to something, not modifying the actual objects, but adding completely new ones). I hate to separate that out in another mod, but fortunately it's so off to the side that I can include it anyway. I might add some modificaitons for equipment too.
On Form ID XX000812, the SML_HungerQuest_Injury_Starvation_1spell, try doing the following:
EFIF - Unknown: 0 on all effects.
MUID - Unknown: 1 on the first, 2 on the second, 3 on the third, etc. It doesn't matter that much according to my testing so far, but it can't be 0 at least.
Having no EFIF or MUID, or having them added but set to 0 on both, causes this very exact issue!
I had this issue myself today.
I haven't tried it yet to see if it fixes it for your mod, but I see you have 2 effects without EFIF and MUID on your spell that controls starvation, so I suspect this is all it takes to fix the issue, and it's worth a shot!! :D
I realize I did set these in an attempt to fix actually...but I tested with an already hosed save. Testing right now with a new clean save.
That was it! Thanks! I don't think it fixes an already messed up save, but I tested with a clean one and was able to load it again. Fixed.
...I couldn't reproduce that, but I'll keep trying. For the other thing, what's the regen skill you're talking about? Health? I think someone noted that the starvation effect may not be strong enough to matter. That's one thing I'm looking at adjusting.
When I had the starvation effective active, I noticed the "sparkle" effect around the feet that indicated the rejuvenation was active. Health never dropped below 100%.
I'll experiment and see if I can figure out why it would load the save with the starvation disease active.