No sorry. Finished the game with this mod and have no intention of investing more time into it. Any modder is welcome to carry off where I left off though.
Hello! Love the premise of the mod, and on paper it addresses a lot of the things keeping Wartales as a "good" game instead of a "great" game.
However, I'm wanting to ask if the description page for the mod is still up to date. A few hours into a new start, and my first Armor layer unlocks and crafted gear are both still level-gated (and at level 8 in case of the armor layer). Which, combined with the levelling feeling a bit slower (as a function of being able to take fewer missions at once), is turning the early game into a bit of a slog. Did I somehow manage to mess up the easiest mod install ever, or is there a changelog missing somewhere?
I liked the ideas you put into your modification. It feels like they are based on the experience of the game and you thought hard about how to improve the balance of the original game.
For my part, I abandoned this game about two years ago, in early access, because I was terribly annoyed by the extremely poor class system in the game. Little compatibility and dependence of characters on each other. Few tactics on the battlefield (in my opinion). Recently I decided to check how the game for such a long time has changed in this aspect and it has changed...approximately nothing. I started playing right away with your mod as I liked your ideas.And once again was disappointed with the classes in the game. So much so that I read the guides on the internet how to unpack resources and was even ready to take on fixing the problems with the classes myself. Nor the trouble is that at the moment I am making a huge mod for an old game, which pulls on a full-fledged remake of the game. It takes a huge amount of my free time. So I would like to cooperate with you, if you have interest. I have a lot of experience in creating a new global balance in games, I have a full understanding of what I want to see in the form of classes in this game. But I need someone who has already created mods for the game to cut down on time costs. My idea, in experienced hands, can be realized in 3-5 hours of work. How do you like the idea of working together on this? Just mentioning that I helped you with the work is enough for me, the rest will go to you.
This current version of Wartales Rebalance feels really good though.
Not really interested in working with others. I have a group of 5 or so hardcore testers and we just modify what we feel is correct. You are welcome to make suggestions though.
How sad. If you don't have a big name or a portfolio with completed projects behind you, you're not taken seriously. As they say - you are not Kojima! Don't think that this is aggression towards you, just a sad sigh of a tired man....
In case you haven't made a final decision, I've done global level projects of gameplay changes in games like King Arthur Knights tale, Evil Islands, and a fairly major rework of Knights of honor 2. Modifications come with the "Jamais Vu" tag. In case I make a proper impression - I will still be happy to provide my vision of changing the classes in the game. And if not interested, then just accept kind words from me for the labor with your modification. It is really interesting.
And I guess I will never play this game because of the class system....
Nah. It has nothing to do with your credentials. I just know what I want and create it. I've done some fairly large mods on games myself so I kinda know what I'm doing.
Modding this is annoying enough that I don't want to bother working with others. I just mod mostly for myself. If you want to use the mod you're welcome to. If you have suggestions you're welcome to post them. If you want to use me to create a big rework I'm not really interested. This game isn't THAT good for me to dedicate that much more of my time.
Indeed, the situation is similar. I, because of working on my main mod, don't have enough free time to understand how the mechanics I need work here. But I have experience in creating global rebalances. I know how to do complex things. So I decided to try to find a person with experience working on this game, who would undertake to mechanically realize my ideas. Alas, in my community in another social network there was no one willing to dig into a third-party project from scratch, and on Nexus there was no one willing to believe me and spend 5-10 hours of his time. Well, that's okay. In general, trusting someone from the outside without knowing who they are is really hard. I understand that. It's more of an annoyance because you spend a couple of hours yourself to come up with a concept, and then you realize that the full implementation, without knowing how the individual elements work, will take 25-30 hours of your time. And you don't want to get into it. Nevertheless, I will describe my idea in a very general way. The simplest way of realization. On a basic level.
The idea was to make a kind of specialization in different classes (swordman, brute and etc.). Each class should have its own priority role on the battlefield. Strengths and weaknesses. That the player meaningfully collected a certain set of classes under the strategy on the battlefield. And already subclasses refined tactics for the use of the class. I will show the example of one of the classes - swordsman. You can make it a character that relies on the technical vision of the battle. From parrying and counterattacks, attacking a single target. Except for one subclass, that will be able to attack multiple targets, but quite limited, against the background of more specialized on this classes. That said, it can attack a single target at the level of the top dps classes in the right subclass. So a swordsman is either a tank that plays not so much from defense reinforcement as from specific skills, or an off tank, or a damager who does a lot of damage to a single target. And as opposed to that make other classes who will specialize in something else. Some classes are better against lightly armored targets, some are better against heavily armored targets, some classes are strong in enemy control and mobility, some are strong in buffs and debuffs. The basic idea is this. Actually I can give options to change skils for classes (skilltree) and equalize the balance. But need a person who can technically realize it and make sure that it works as intended.
Much of what you have already said is already in Wartales Rebalance. Many of the abilities are full reworks and the trees have been changed to give more distinct roles and balance to each class.
True, but beastmaster got a lot of buffs so animals are probably stronger (including bears). That being said, you're right, bear tanks (while starting off stronger) will end up less tanky than without this mod.
I particularly like your constitution and mobility adjustments, though I've noticed some bugs and undocumented changes, as well as written up some of my own feedback after spending a good deal of time with the mod.
Galvanize Troops appears broken, always generating zero VP.
Some other abilities have had their VP costs increased in a way that isn't explained in the description (Relentless Charge costs 2 VP instead of 1).
Heavy Armor is not properly granting immunity to burning damage, though the equipment does state as such (tested in last update, so this might have been fixed).
Adreis isn't actually giving a discount after completing Tiltren (presumably related to economic changes?).
Not a bug, but you might consider reducing certain challenges like Prolific Craftsman, since selling 1k worth of crafted items becomes far more difficult with this mod. I wouldn't call this a problem per se, but it disproportionately stalls that path relative to others. Actually feels like the economy changes may be just a little too heavy handed, as virtually everything in the early game that you'd want to sell only does so for 1 gold - I would suggest increasing the value of some reasonable commodities like rare gems and trade goods, while balancing it out with a minor increase to inn & apothecary services, since they're very free relative to the price of consumables (armor repair feels like it's probably on target though, maybe just a slight uptick).
Nice to see you making frequent updates to the mod, and I know there is a comment about buffing/nerfing some traits, though there's another comment about reducing 2 VP costs, so it's unclear exactly what is intended behavior. Might be good to include a changelog for this reason.
Great feedback. Yea, latest version removed fire immunity from heavy armors as it just wouldn't work. Instead, first aid became a 0 AP ability. Neither is perfect, but both help.
Galvanize is fixed.
Relentless is back to 1 VP.
Adreis is based on reduced costs.
As for craftsman stuff, yea, that's tricky to balance all that. The problem is the base economy makes gold far too plentiful, mostly from selling stuff. Part of the goal of this mod is to put back the strong emphasis on completing quests for gold. Even with the heavy handed changes you still get quite a big of gold from selling stuff.
I'm not entirely sure what to do about the Path of Economy. I'm not entirely opposed to just accepting it as something you won't realistically do well in.
However, i fyou have specific changes, please don't hesitate to list them as I can definitely add such changes to the mod. I lowered the proflific craftsman from 1k worth to 100 worth just to make attaining it reasonable. Let me know if you have any other suggestions.
Part of the goal of this mod is to put back the strong emphasis on completing quests for gold. Even with the heavy handed changes you still get quite a big of gold from selling stuff.
This is very true; I do like the idea of finding the occasional valuable (things like gems come to mind), but you're right that the game snowballs very hard and so real solutions would probably need to be more comprehensive - finding a way to ramp up mid and end game costs, because right now everything becomes easier the further you go.
Thanks for being receptive to the feedback though; I am really enjoying my time with the mod!
latest version removed fire immunity from heavy armors as it just wouldn't work. Instead, first aid became a 0 AP ability. Neither is perfect, but both help.
Free first aid becomes pretty powerful in other ways, but I don't really know the solution here either. Finding a way to not allow fire to spread on contact would be nice, since it's a pretty oppressive mechanic. Ideally, I think fire probably shouldn't be a debuff at all, but rather a persistent ground effect - dealing immediate damage to anyone who steps into that tile, proliferating across the battlefield at the end of each turn in order to add an increased sense of urgency through ongoing area denial, though that's outside of the scope of current mod capabilities.
53 comments
I was wondering if you'd be updating the mod for the latest release?
Unfortunately I got caught out by the auto update and have had to revert back to vanilla, it's just not in the same league.
Anyway, thanks again, Gazza.
However, I'm wanting to ask if the description page for the mod is still up to date. A few hours into a new start, and my first Armor layer unlocks and crafted gear are both still level-gated (and at level 8 in case of the armor layer). Which, combined with the levelling feeling a bit slower (as a function of being able to take fewer missions at once), is turning the early game into a bit of a slog. Did I somehow manage to mess up the easiest mod install ever, or is there a changelog missing somewhere?
I liked the ideas you put into your modification.
It feels like they are based on the experience of the game and you thought hard about how to improve the balance of the original game.
For my part, I abandoned this game about two years ago, in early access, because I was terribly annoyed by the extremely poor class system in the game. Little compatibility and dependence of characters on each other. Few tactics on the battlefield (in my opinion).
Recently I decided to check how the game for such a long time has changed in this aspect and it has changed...approximately nothing.
I started playing right away with your mod as I liked your ideas.And once again was disappointed with the classes in the game.
So much so that I read the guides on the internet how to unpack resources and was even ready to take on fixing the problems with the classes myself.
Nor the trouble is that at the moment I am making a huge mod for an old game, which pulls on a full-fledged remake of the game.
It takes a huge amount of my free time. So I would like to cooperate with you, if you have interest.
I have a lot of experience in creating a new global balance in games, I have a full understanding of what I want to see in the form of classes in this game.
But I need someone who has already created mods for the game to cut down on time costs.
My idea, in experienced hands, can be realized in 3-5 hours of work.
How do you like the idea of working together on this? Just mentioning that I helped you with the work is enough for me, the rest will go to you.
This current version of Wartales Rebalance feels really good though.
Not really interested in working with others. I have a group of 5 or so hardcore testers and we just modify what we feel is correct. You are welcome to make suggestions though.
If you don't have a big name or a portfolio with completed projects behind you, you're not taken seriously. As they say - you are not Kojima!
Don't think that this is aggression towards you, just a sad sigh of a tired man....
In case you haven't made a final decision, I've done global level projects of gameplay changes in games like King Arthur Knights tale, Evil Islands, and a fairly major rework of Knights of honor 2. Modifications come with the "Jamais Vu" tag.
In case I make a proper impression - I will still be happy to provide my vision of changing the classes in the game.
And if not interested, then just accept kind words from me for the labor with your modification. It is really interesting.
And I guess I will never play this game because of the class system....
Modding this is annoying enough that I don't want to bother working with others. I just mod mostly for myself. If you want to use the mod you're welcome to. If you have suggestions you're welcome to post them. If you want to use me to create a big rework I'm not really interested. This game isn't THAT good for me to dedicate that much more of my time.
I, because of working on my main mod, don't have enough free time to understand how the mechanics I need work here. But I have experience in creating global rebalances. I know how to do complex things. So I decided to try to find a person with experience working on this game, who would undertake to mechanically realize my ideas. Alas, in my community in another social network there was no one willing to dig into a third-party project from scratch, and on Nexus there was no one willing to believe me and spend 5-10 hours of his time. Well, that's okay. In general, trusting someone from the outside without knowing who they are is really hard. I understand that.
It's more of an annoyance because you spend a couple of hours yourself to come up with a concept, and then you realize that the full implementation, without knowing how the individual elements work, will take 25-30 hours of your time.
And you don't want to get into it.
Nevertheless, I will describe my idea in a very general way. The simplest way of realization. On a basic level.
The idea was to make a kind of specialization in different classes (swordman, brute and etc.). Each class should have its own priority role on the battlefield. Strengths and weaknesses. That the player meaningfully collected a certain set of classes under the strategy on the battlefield. And already subclasses refined tactics for the use of the class. I will show the example of one of the classes - swordsman. You can make it a character that relies on the technical vision of the battle. From parrying and counterattacks, attacking a single target. Except for one subclass, that will be able to attack multiple targets, but quite limited, against the background of more specialized on this classes. That said, it can attack a single target at the level of the top dps classes in the right subclass. So a swordsman is either a tank that plays not so much from defense reinforcement as from specific skills, or an off tank, or a damager who does a lot of damage to a single target. And as opposed to that make other classes who will specialize in something else. Some classes are better against lightly armored targets, some are better against heavily armored targets, some classes are strong in enemy control and mobility, some are strong in buffs and debuffs. The basic idea is this. Actually I can give options to change skils for classes (skilltree) and equalize the balance. But need a person who can technically realize it and make sure that it works as intended.
- Galvanize Troops appears broken, always generating zero VP.
- Some other abilities have had their VP costs increased in a way that isn't explained in the description (Relentless Charge costs 2 VP instead of 1).
- Heavy Armor is not properly granting immunity to burning damage, though the equipment does state as such (tested in last update, so this might have been fixed).
- Adreis isn't actually giving a discount after completing Tiltren (presumably related to economic changes?).
- Not a bug, but you might consider reducing certain challenges like Prolific Craftsman, since selling 1k worth of crafted items becomes far more difficult with this mod. I wouldn't call this a problem per se, but it disproportionately stalls that path relative to others. Actually feels like the economy changes may be just a little too heavy handed, as virtually everything in the early game that you'd want to sell only does so for 1 gold - I would suggest increasing the value of some reasonable commodities like rare gems and trade goods, while balancing it out with a minor increase to inn & apothecary services, since they're very free relative to the price of consumables (armor repair feels like it's probably on target though, maybe just a slight uptick).
Nice to see you making frequent updates to the mod, and I know there is a comment about buffing/nerfing some traits, though there's another comment about reducing 2 VP costs, so it's unclear exactly what is intended behavior. Might be good to include a changelog for this reason.Galvanize is fixed.
Relentless is back to 1 VP.
Adreis is based on reduced costs.
As for craftsman stuff, yea, that's tricky to balance all that. The problem is the base economy makes gold far too plentiful, mostly from selling stuff. Part of the goal of this mod is to put back the strong emphasis on completing quests for gold. Even with the heavy handed changes you still get quite a big of gold from selling stuff.
I'm not entirely sure what to do about the Path of Economy. I'm not entirely opposed to just accepting it as something you won't realistically do well in.
However, i fyou have specific changes, please don't hesitate to list them as I can definitely add such changes to the mod. I lowered the proflific craftsman from 1k worth to 100 worth just to make attaining it reasonable. Let me know if you have any other suggestions.
This is very true; I do like the idea of finding the occasional valuable (things like gems come to mind), but you're right that the game snowballs very hard and so real solutions would probably need to be more comprehensive - finding a way to ramp up mid and end game costs, because right now everything becomes easier the further you go.
Thanks for being receptive to the feedback though; I am really enjoying my time with the mod!
Free first aid becomes pretty powerful in other ways, but I don't really know the solution here either. Finding a way to not allow fire to spread on contact would be nice, since it's a pretty oppressive mechanic. Ideally, I think fire probably shouldn't be a debuff at all, but rather a persistent ground effect - dealing immediate damage to anyone who steps into that tile, proliferating across the battlefield at the end of each turn in order to add an increased sense of urgency through ongoing area denial, though that's outside of the scope of current mod capabilities.