hey just a heads you you might have to make a patch for ss2 since the ss2 ch1 mod uses the location in pic 16 for a quest by added in a npc you try to talk to and goes hostel when you get close to them where you have to 2 raiders on there own
I have understood that the mod author doesn't use Sim Settlements 2.
I just would like to add my vote (plea?) to asking someone for a patch that allows us to enjoy both mods here. The rendition of Ack-Ack in this mod reminds me a bit of Jeannette, which gives me warm fuzzies. I'd love to see her in my FO4 too, but I can't give up on SS2 >.<
I'll keep checking the mods requiring this mod in the future in the hopes the patch somehow gets done one day.
Thank you to the mod author for creating and sharing this mod with us.
Theoretically, the Legacy version in the "Miscellaneous Files" section should work with SS2 since, in that version, the changes are mostly cosmetic (e.g., their appearance and armor). You'll lose all of the other bells and whistles, though, such as the blacked-out armor, new world space placement, unique faction and templates, and so forth. But even then, there's no guarantee for compatibility. As I understand it, SS2 sends you to Olivia to talk with one of the raiders, but if the quest glommed onto one of the raiders I had to disable in order to make Harlequins work, the quest will be broken and still need a patch.
Edit: If the SS2 quest merely spawns a new raider NPC to handle the interaction, then that NPC likely would need only call on the Harlequin face pool so as to fit in with the rest of the (Legacy) Harlequins.
I appreciate your reply, even more so since you seem to go out of your way to provide information about what conflicts and how.
To be honest, I haven't seen either of the mods in action yet. I'm back from a years long hiatus playing FO4. I remember enjoying SS1 tons, and am in the process of building my mod list around its sequel. As much as I really love the aesthetics and the obvious care you've put into your mod, and as much as I respect your position (you don't owe us here any patch, no one has to justify with what mods they play and why), I hope you also can see where I'm coming from.
I first stumbled upon 4estGimp's patch of Raider Gangs Extended, found Odigos69 extension of RGE, then of course PrecisionTacos's mods and finally yours, along with some sweet looking raider garments, like Toxic Armor and Grease Rat Garbs. Being the totally unreasonable fellow that I am when I get to play with new toys, I just had to have them all and spent a couple of evenings setting up the mods and reading the comments pages of each. That's how I discovered the incompatibility of your mod.
I wish I could offer help really, but even if I was already back at playing and had reached Satellite station Olivia, my modding knowledge wouldn't extend beyond xEDIT. I have maybe opened the CK once or twice, and yes with the fixes, and I hated manipulating it. It is sluggish, unintuitive and above all seems to do stuff that I don't want or need without prior warning (like a certain NG update). I can only admire the seemingless endless patience of mod authors like you in dealing with that crap.
Anyway, as much as I would have liked to have the *complete* AIO collection of Odigos69's mod, I think it wise to scale my expectations down for the time being, and patiently wait in line with everyone else till someone comes up with a miracle solution if there is any.
I know that unlike Bethesda the modding community never disappoints.
EDIT : Endorsed your mod and sent you some kudos for the quality mod support. Can't let that slip between my moments of excitement.
I forgot about Raider Gang Factions - A Raider Gangs Extended Add-On and Expansion. That mod makes use of the Legacy version of Ack-Ack's Harlequins via patch, but that patch may well break the SS2 quest discussed above, too. If we assume SS2 will work with legacy Harlequins, then you need only skip the Harlequin patch for Raider Gang Factions. They will still work together just fine without it.
This mod is not compatible with Sim Settlements 2. Raiders attacking Jake while you two are in Satellite Station Olivia never show up as the raiders weren't there. Otherwise I loved the mod.
Oh, if I were an SS2 user, this mod wouldn't exist. A lot of my mods wouldn't exist, actually. In fact, I might not be making mods at all if I were an SS2 user. Most of my mods are intended to add flavor to the vanilla game, and while I don't go out of my way to create problems for other mods, I won't accommodate them either if doing so requires me to fundamentally change what I'm trying to accomplish with my mods.
Ah, okay. Still, if I'm able to implement my future plans for the Harlequins--especially the patrols and settlement attacks--it'll take some real wizardry to patch the Harlequins with SS2 without diminishing either mod.
As for other raider overhauls, I have a Libertalia raider overhaul in the works, and I may end up doing something with Zeller's Army, too. I'm thinking about doing something with the Rust Devils and the Forged as well, but mostly to disconnect them from the common raider faction so that they won't team up together when they should be fighting each other. These last two are a long way off, though, if ever.
I just the original version of the Ack Acks crew in the satellite station. All of his other mods that I've used never gave me any problems with ss2 fortunately. The Gunners actually matter with SS2 which is one of the reasons I never want to stop using it.
I love any and all mods that add more distinction and identities to various raider gangs, but the Sturdy armour spawning from level 1 is throwing me off. Any chance we can get a version with a more traditional levelled armour distribution? If not, I totally get it, and tbh I'll keep using this mod either way. But if I can have my cake and eat it, too, all the better! :)
Oh, the ability for them to spawn with sturdy sets from the start is by design, but when I made this Redux, I reworked the custom leveled list so that complete sturdy sets wouldn't spawn so often. Specifically, I added partial sets for both light and sturdy that only spawn with upper body armor pieces. I thought about adding other partial sets that consist of the only the chest piece and/or chest and leg pieces, but I didn't implement them. I'll have to take another look at that idea, and while I'm at it, I'll see if I can come up with other variations that'll reduce how often a Harlequin spawns with a complete sturdy set.
Side Note: Only Ack-Ack (and her respawn replacement) gets the heavy set.
Well, this looks cool. Considering that these guys were separated from the main raider faction, it should be compatible with both Diverse Wasteland and Raider Overhaul ONE right?
Ack-Ack is the only one who still uses her vanilla record, but much of it has been modified to bring her in line with the rest of the Harlequins. At some point, I'll try to completely disconnect her from her remaining raider data, but I was concerned that she'd break if I removed what remains, so I left it alone for now.
In any case, Diverse Wasteland doesn't touch her, so that one is safe. Not sure about Raider Overhaul ONE, though. If it interacts with Ack-Ack at all, there may be a conflict. Loading Harlequins second should resolve any issues, but I can't say for certain since RO1 uses script injection for some things. If she's wearing the wrong armor, doesn't have the Harlequin aesthetic, and/or is getting attacked by the other Harlequins, then you know RO1 is overriding my changes.
Don't know if you're aware, but I've already updated the mod to v2. Turns out those leftover raider records were enough to make her hostile toward the other Harlequins. While it was certainly fun watching her hose everyone with the minigun, it wouldn't do for an actual play through. So, despite not knowing how I forgot to test her before releasing this redux, she is now fixed and properly friendly to her minions.
Yep, already downloaded, thanks for the fix. Btw, very nice idea on expanded influence, cool to see these guys around and not only at Satellite Station.
Expect another update in the near future. I finally figured out why the dogs weren't patrolling correctly, which was an issue going back to the first iteration of the original Ack-Ack's Harlequin mod. The update may include the molerat "pet" idea mentioned in the "Future Plans" section of the description, too, if I can get it to work in a timely manner.
And speaking of the "Future Plans" section, if I can get the "Harlequin Patrols" and "Harlequin Settlement Attacks" to work, it'll really make it seem like the Harlequins are attempting to control territory.
My understanding is that settlement attacks can be manipulated, but it would require scripting knowledge I don't have, so I'll need to recruit some help to make it happen. Patrols may require scripting, too, but I can't say for sure. I've been looking at other mods that feature traveling NPCs and it looks like many of them work via linked references, travel packages, and patrol markers. Hopefully that's all it takes, as I think small bands of roving Harlequins would be sweet.
Converting the small "independent" groups in the area, and then adding more static groups in the empty spaces between those groups and Olivia, was my alternative to actual patrols. But as I was getting everything set up, I thought, "Why not both?" So, Harlequin patrols along with outposts is the end goal, assuming I can figure it out.
I agree that the vanilla gangs don't do enough to project their influence, although it makes sense for some gangs. I think the Hardware Town gang is a good example of the latter. No reason to risk going out into the world to find targets when you can lure them to you instead. But yeah, if the raiders at Back Street Apparel have the means to harass Oberland station, you'd think they'd control the intervening territory. But maybe they do. Maybe all of the small groups in the area are part of that gang, even though it doesn't seem like it.
In any case, I have plans to overhaul at least one more vanilla gang (Libertalia), but if I can figure out patrols, I'll probably do others. At bare minimum, I'd like to have Rust Devils patrolling all of Fort Hagen. I want the Forged to patrol, too, but that might not be possible with all of the congestion around the Saugus. You'd never see the patrols since they'd likely end up in a fight as soon as they left their base.
They're already set to respawn per normal raiders. I think it is a monthly timer, but I'm not 100% sure. For the test described in the other thread, I was waiting a month between visits to Olivia.
Now that you mention it, though, I haven't checked to see if the new groups I placed are respawning. They should, as their respawn flag is toggled, but I didn't test it in game.
Edit: Tested the new Harlequin groups and they respawn, too.
Another brilliant mod, however I found some bugs/issues:
- While exploring the area where Harlequins spawn I came across some Harlequins that were invisible and had the synth voice, only the weapon they were carrying was visible. - At USAF Satellite Station Olivia only 3 Harlequins spawned while the other raiders were, well, regular raiders and the Harlequins were pretty much slaughtered, shouldn't all the raiders at USAF Satellite Station Olivia have been replaced with Harlequins? Also the 2 scavengers that spawn by the shooting range and the shack weren't actually replaced by Harlequins but instead spawned alongside them and they were fighting each other. - I've seen a dog that spawned with the newly added Harlequin spawns actually attacking them instead of being allied to them
Edit: I visited the USAF Satellite Station Olivia after clearing the area once and having killed Ack-Ack
So far these were the only issues I had with the mod, other than that it is nice that there is a new gang controlling the north most part of the map, it would also be nice to have some higher level Harlequins mixed in with the bunch, highest one I saw was 14. Either way, I'm looking forward for future updates and features, having unique gangs other than the Nuka World ones is a very cool concept and as always, thanks for your hard work!
I have a pretty good idea what causes the invisible Harlequins, as the same thing happened with some of my Diverse series mods. For whatever reason, hooking a base/default template into a face pool causes the problem. I was hoping that creating all new records would prevent the issue, but I guess not.
The Harlequins spawning as normal raiders is something that goes all the way back to the earliest iterations of the original Ack-Ack's Harlequins mod. It was a sporadic event with the old mod, and my head canon was that they were new members who had not yet gone through the skin-graying process to become full Harlequins. I wasn't able to get it to happen at all with the Redux, though, so I thought it was resolved. But once again, I guess not. I'll have to keep looking for a solution.
In any case, I'm surprised the regular raiders won, as Harlequins have nearly identical stats as to normal raiders. I'll have to check to make sure I didn't link the Harlequins to the wrong base templates or something. 'Course, power levels vary, so maybe the raiders just got a lucky RNG roll and spawned strong while the Harlequins spawned week.
I'm not sure what's going on with the dog, though. I checked all of the dog records and they're correctly allied. In fact, the only faction they are part of is the Harlequin faction. Do you remember which group was fighting the dog? I didn't give dogs to any of the new groups, but some of them are near unaffiliated dogs. It is possible that the Harlequin and dog sandboxes brought them close enough to each other to trigger a fight.
As for the scavengers, if you installed the Redux mid game, it is likely they were already there from an earlier spawn. The Redux just spawned in Harlequins, too, which resulted in a fight. I don't think the scavengers will respawn in the future, but they might be baked into your save, in which case, they will always respawn when the Harlequins respawn.
Regarding Harlequin strength, regular Harlequins top out at level 25 and legendary Harlequins top out at level 30. Vanilla raiders go higher than that, if memory serves, so I might boost the Harlequins to match, but the northwest corner of the map is supposed to be the "easy zone" for the game, so I don't want to make them too powerful.
Future raider gang overhauls include the Libertalia gang (which is in the works), and possibly Zeller's Army. I may do something with the Forged and the Rust Devils, too, but that's mostly just disconnecting them from the vanilla raider faction so that they operate as individual gangs.
Thanks for the quick reply, I will continue exploring and checking the Harlequins behavior, if anything odd shows up I will let you know. I believe that the future plans for added patrols and settlement attacks may be a better opportunity to add up some tougher Harlequins, and i'm truly anxious to see what will be your take on a Libertalia/Zeller army unique gangs, Libertalia is definitely one of the most unique locations in the game and the whole blood contract, torture and brainwashing with Zeller boys will surely open up a lot of interesting creative choices
Well, I can't get vanilla raiders to spawn at Olivia. I went there, killed all of them, fast traveled away and waited for them to respawn, returned and killed all of them again, fast traveled away until they respawned, etc. I did this several times, but no regular raiders. So, I have some questions:
Are you using any raider overhaul mods? Or mods that add extra raiders to the location? What about quest mods that interact with the Olivia raiders? There are some posts farther down indicating that a couple of SS2 quests are incompatible.
It is also possible that this is a situation like the scavenger, where installing after you already visited Olivia results the three vanilla raiders spawning and, possibly, being baked into your save. This actually makes the most sense because there are three vanilla raiders at Olivia (one inside and two outside) that couldn't be converted to Harlequins, so I had to toggle their "initially disabled" and "starts dead" flags, sink them underground to remove them, and then create replacers. If you visited Olivia before installing the mod, then those three would spawn as usual, and may continue to spawn in the future if they're baked into your save.
I did another test and was able to confirm that the vanilla raiders appearing is the result of visiting Olivia before installing the mod. This was especially apparent for those inside where nearly all of them respawned as vanilla raiders. I couldn't replicate the scavenger issue you reported, but it is likely something similar. Other vanilla raiders I converted into Harlequins don't seem to be affected.
No raiders overhauls, the only mod I use that touch Raiders is your Diverse Raiders mod and yes I installed Harlequins Redux long after clearing Olivia, so you may be right, the raiders/scavengers are baked into the save and cant be replaced by Harlequins, other raiders such as the ones from the camp close to the lake, the one with the dog from the shack close to Vault 111 and the ones that camp at the Transmission Tower are properly replaced with Harlequins
Yup, that's precisely what I found in my tests, although I wasn't able to replicate the scavenger issue you found, so I'm figuring it was completely unrelated to the Redux. Maybe just a weird game bug.
Glad you like it. My original plan was to make them completely black & white (or as close to it as possible). They'd have the current skin tone, but all would have black hair, and all would be wearing shadowed leather. What I found was that no matter what hair style, face paint, and face shape combinations I used, they ended up looking the same. By swapping in the colorful hair, I am reasonably sure that no two Harlequins have the same combination of face paint, hair color, and hair style. Some may share two of the three, but none with all three. The Toxic Raider armor was a no-brainer after that, and when/if more color combinations come to pass, the variety will be off the charts.
The problem with all such mods is that there is only the appearance of an organization, but in fact it is also vanilla. Is it possible to fix at least a weak strategic AI? That is, farms are a source of resources and raiders and Mintmen are fighting for them.
I've done all I can with my skill set. However, I did set them up to be very aggressive and favor offense over defense when in combat, and let me tell you, I was rather surprised by how long they will give chase and how much distance I had to put between us before they'd turn back. That allowed me to test some other stuff, though, like seeing how they'd react to other enemies. For instance, I kited a couple of them into Concord just to see what would happen when they collided with the raiders fighting Preston. That was a lot of fun watching the free-for-all that kicked off.
Anyway, if I can figure out how to get the settlement attack idea to work the way I want, that'll go a long way in giving the impression that they're actually attempting to control territory. Patrols will do that, too, as my goal is to have them travel through various enemy spawn points so that they'll be fighting stuff that isn't just the player character.
42 comments
I just would like to add my vote (plea?) to asking someone for a patch that allows us to enjoy both mods here. The rendition of Ack-Ack in this mod reminds me a bit of Jeannette, which gives me warm fuzzies. I'd love to see her in my FO4 too, but I can't give up on SS2 >.<
I'll keep checking the mods requiring this mod in the future in the hopes the patch somehow gets done one day.
Thank you to the mod author for creating and sharing this mod with us.
Edit: If the SS2 quest merely spawns a new raider NPC to handle the interaction, then that NPC likely would need only call on the Harlequin face pool so as to fit in with the rest of the (Legacy) Harlequins.
To be honest, I haven't seen either of the mods in action yet. I'm back from a years long hiatus playing FO4. I remember enjoying SS1 tons, and am in the process of building my mod list around its sequel. As much as I really love the aesthetics and the obvious care you've put into your mod, and as much as I respect your position (you don't owe us here any patch, no one has to justify with what mods they play and why), I hope you also can see where I'm coming from.
I first stumbled upon 4estGimp's patch of Raider Gangs Extended, found Odigos69 extension of RGE, then of course PrecisionTacos's mods and finally yours, along with some sweet looking raider garments, like Toxic Armor and Grease Rat Garbs. Being the totally unreasonable fellow that I am when I get to play with new toys, I just had to have them all and spent a couple of evenings setting up the mods and reading the comments pages of each. That's how I discovered the incompatibility of your mod.
I wish I could offer help really, but even if I was already back at playing and had reached Satellite station Olivia, my modding knowledge wouldn't extend beyond xEDIT. I have maybe opened the CK once or twice, and yes with the fixes, and I hated manipulating it. It is sluggish, unintuitive and above all seems to do stuff that I don't want or need without prior warning (like a certain NG update). I can only admire the seemingless endless patience of mod authors like you in dealing with that crap.
Anyway, as much as I would have liked to have the *complete* AIO collection of Odigos69's mod, I think it wise to scale my expectations down for the time being, and patiently wait in line with everyone else till someone comes up with a
miraclesolution if there is any.I know that unlike Bethesda the modding community never disappoints.
EDIT : Endorsed your mod and sent you some kudos for the quality mod support. Can't let that slip between my moments of excitement.
I forgot about Raider Gang Factions - A Raider Gangs Extended Add-On and Expansion. That mod makes use of the Legacy version of Ack-Ack's Harlequins via patch, but that patch may well break the SS2 quest discussed above, too. If we assume SS2 will work with legacy Harlequins, then you need only skip the Harlequin patch for Raider Gang Factions. They will still work together just fine without it.
Really appreciating the trend of lightweight raider overhauls lately.
As for other raider overhauls, I have a Libertalia raider overhaul in the works, and I may end up doing something with Zeller's Army, too. I'm thinking about doing something with the Rust Devils and the Forged as well, but mostly to disconnect them from the common raider faction so that they won't team up together when they should be fighting each other. These last two are a long way off, though, if ever.
Side Note: Only Ack-Ack (and her respawn replacement) gets the heavy set.
In any case, Diverse Wasteland doesn't touch her, so that one is safe. Not sure about Raider Overhaul ONE, though. If it interacts with Ack-Ack at all, there may be a conflict. Loading Harlequins second should resolve any issues, but I can't say for certain since RO1 uses script injection for some things. If she's wearing the wrong armor, doesn't have the Harlequin aesthetic, and/or is getting attacked by the other Harlequins, then you know RO1 is overriding my changes.
And speaking of the "Future Plans" section, if I can get the "Harlequin Patrols" and "Harlequin Settlement Attacks" to work, it'll really make it seem like the Harlequins are attempting to control territory.
This is what I dislike with small unique gangs; they never appear anywhere outside from their specific area.
I agree that the vanilla gangs don't do enough to project their influence, although it makes sense for some gangs. I think the Hardware Town gang is a good example of the latter. No reason to risk going out into the world to find targets when you can lure them to you instead. But yeah, if the raiders at Back Street Apparel have the means to harass Oberland station, you'd think they'd control the intervening territory. But maybe they do. Maybe all of the small groups in the area are part of that gang, even though it doesn't seem like it.
In any case, I have plans to overhaul at least one more vanilla gang (Libertalia), but if I can figure out patrols, I'll probably do others. At bare minimum, I'd like to have Rust Devils patrolling all of Fort Hagen. I want the Forged to patrol, too, but that might not be possible with all of the congestion around the Saugus. You'd never see the patrols since they'd likely end up in a fight as soon as they left their base.
Now that you mention it, though, I haven't checked to see if the new groups I placed are respawning. They should, as their respawn flag is toggled, but I didn't test it in game.
Edit: Tested the new Harlequin groups and they respawn, too.
- While exploring the area where Harlequins spawn I came across some Harlequins that were invisible and had the synth voice, only the weapon they were carrying was visible.
- At USAF Satellite Station Olivia only 3 Harlequins spawned while the other raiders were, well, regular raiders and the Harlequins were pretty much slaughtered, shouldn't all the raiders at USAF Satellite Station Olivia have been replaced with Harlequins? Also the 2 scavengers that spawn by the shooting range and the shack weren't actually replaced by Harlequins but instead spawned alongside them and they were fighting each other.
- I've seen a dog that spawned with the newly added Harlequin spawns actually attacking them instead of being allied to them
Edit: I visited the USAF Satellite Station Olivia after clearing the area once and having killed Ack-Ack
So far these were the only issues I had with the mod, other than that it is nice that there is a new gang controlling the north most part of the map, it would also be nice to have some higher level Harlequins mixed in with the bunch, highest one I saw was 14. Either way, I'm looking forward for future updates and features, having unique gangs other than the Nuka World ones is a very cool concept and as always, thanks for your hard work!
The Harlequins spawning as normal raiders is something that goes all the way back to the earliest iterations of the original Ack-Ack's Harlequins mod. It was a sporadic event with the old mod, and my head canon was that they were new members who had not yet gone through the skin-graying process to become full Harlequins. I wasn't able to get it to happen at all with the Redux, though, so I thought it was resolved. But once again, I guess not. I'll have to keep looking for a solution.
In any case, I'm surprised the regular raiders won, as Harlequins have nearly identical stats as to normal raiders. I'll have to check to make sure I didn't link the Harlequins to the wrong base templates or something. 'Course, power levels vary, so maybe the raiders just got a lucky RNG roll and spawned strong while the Harlequins spawned week.
I'm not sure what's going on with the dog, though. I checked all of the dog records and they're correctly allied. In fact, the only faction they are part of is the Harlequin faction. Do you remember which group was fighting the dog? I didn't give dogs to any of the new groups, but some of them are near unaffiliated dogs. It is possible that the Harlequin and dog sandboxes brought them close enough to each other to trigger a fight.
As for the scavengers, if you installed the Redux mid game, it is likely they were already there from an earlier spawn. The Redux just spawned in Harlequins, too, which resulted in a fight. I don't think the scavengers will respawn in the future, but they might be baked into your save, in which case, they will always respawn when the Harlequins respawn.
Regarding Harlequin strength, regular Harlequins top out at level 25 and legendary Harlequins top out at level 30. Vanilla raiders go higher than that, if memory serves, so I might boost the Harlequins to match, but the northwest corner of the map is supposed to be the "easy zone" for the game, so I don't want to make them too powerful.
Future raider gang overhauls include the Libertalia gang (which is in the works), and possibly Zeller's Army. I may do something with the Forged and the Rust Devils, too, but that's mostly just disconnecting them from the vanilla raider faction so that they operate as individual gangs.
Are you using any raider overhaul mods? Or mods that add extra raiders to the location? What about quest mods that interact with the Olivia raiders? There are some posts farther down indicating that a couple of SS2 quests are incompatible.
It is also possible that this is a situation like the scavenger, where installing after you already visited Olivia results the three vanilla raiders spawning and, possibly, being baked into your save. This actually makes the most sense because there are three vanilla raiders at Olivia (one inside and two outside) that couldn't be converted to Harlequins, so I had to toggle their "initially disabled" and "starts dead" flags, sink them underground to remove them, and then create replacers. If you visited Olivia before installing the mod, then those three would spawn as usual, and may continue to spawn in the future if they're baked into your save.
Anyway, if I can figure out how to get the settlement attack idea to work the way I want, that'll go a long way in giving the impression that they're actually attempting to control territory. Patrols will do that, too, as my goal is to have them travel through various enemy spawn points so that they'll be fighting stuff that isn't just the player character.