[2024-11-24] UPDATE Thanks for mentioning our project in the official Steam and Reddit threads, we really appreciate it! We are currently working on our next update for Chapter 5 (the reactivity cutscene after the most secret veiled Areelu lab goes brrrrr) and we'll be able to release the update when it's done.
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Hello folks, and thanks for being here!
We recently released 0.9.9b and wanted to tell you a little bit about some of the things we encountered while working on it. Basically, we had to be careful not to hit one of the icebergs in Chapter 5.
Content of this post:
Iceberg no. 1 - Reactivity vs Quest Integration
Iceberg no. 2 - Drastically Different World States and Companion Quest Outcomes
Iceberg no. 3 - Instruments vs. Conditions
What's next?
Modularity and customization in 0.9.9c
Adapting 0.9.9a and 0.9.9b content for demons, liches, and (hopefully) SWARMS
New dialogs after returning from Pulura Falls and the more secret Areelu Laboratory. Modification of the interaction system for this mod.
Beware, there are spoilers ahead!
Iceberg no. 1 - Reactivity vs Quest Integration
Not seeing game feedback on important plot events can be quite disappointing to a player. But it's even worse when the reactions come at the wrong time, like laughing right after a funeral. And if the user's walkthrough scenarios are not taken into account, the chances of such a mishap are incredibly high for all those companions whose personal quests culminate in Chapter 5.
So far, we've added the content that looks best in the scenario where a player talks to companions immediately after each major quest outcome. However, Ameistris pointed out that it's only natural for a player to cover multiple plot points that are close together on the game map. So it's very likely that the Commander will talk to Daeran after visiting Iz, Ineluctable Prison, and his own Q3 location. And yeah, it would seem odd if he did not at least try to (refuse to) comment on the outcome of his own life-and-death situation before talking about something else:
Figure 1. Daeran's preface will be triggered when a player tries to talk to him in Drezen after his Q3 and before his later in-game Q3/romance talks.
However, these lines are not shown if {the Commander has given him to the Inquisition} AND {he is not romanced}, because then Daeran would not come to talk to the player later. So for that case, we'll have to come up with a different stub that fits the mood (and hopefully not OOC). The same goes for Lann, Seelah, Camellia, etc., because they all have their own turning points in their respective Q3s, so their own conversation priorities should reflect that.
This is where we hit the iceberg no. 2.
Iceberg no. 2 - Drastically Different World States and Companion Quest Outcomes
Chapter 5, while somewhat lacking in content, offers absolutely divergent world states and companion fates. For instance, Arueshalae and Wojif can end up as two completely different characters, depending on the choices made in previous chapters. Similarly, the final quests for others in Chapter 5 will affect more than just a few lines.
Take Nenio, for example: a player might face the "I'm a person, I'm nothing" dilemma, while with Daeran, the Commander can continue as best friend/tolerated companion or turn him over to the Inquisition. Lann shows significant variation depending on whether he's alive and confident or alive and depressed. For Sosiel, the scenario changes depending on whether his brother is with him, has been killed, or was never found in the first place. Additionally, his romance subplot can change dramatically based on Mythic choices. The same goes for Ember, whose character evolves significantly depending on the Commander's Mythic path.
The content that we've added so far for Chapter 5 may be more appropriate for angels, azatas, legends, dragons, probably devils, and maybe demons trying to mitigate the consequences of being demons.
However, serious folks like liches, swarms, and demons who are proud to be demons would definitely require additional conversation packs.
Figure 2. Liches get some acknowledgement in 0.9.9a and 0.9.9b, but their vibe should dominate every aspect of their conversations.
We would like to thank Ryuuichi009 for providing us with a demonic save during a bug-fixing expedition last year. This save helped us realize how much difference there is between the mythic sub-branches, and we'll definitely respect that and adjust the content of 0.9.9a and 0.9.9b accordingly.
Here we come, iceberg no. 3.
The complexity of conditions.
Iceberg no. 3 - Instruments vs. Conditions
We would like to emphasize that we greatly respect the work of the other modders who have created the specific tools for modding via code injection with C#, but this is not the approach we want to use until absolutely necessary.
From the first moment I saw Owlcat's mod template based on injecting blueprints as files, I knew that this was exactly the approach that we needed to make our dialog project work. So for the last two years I've been working on the tools to help us create this mod.
At first I wanted to go the WeiDU route (BG1/2 fans should recognize the acronym, as in Weimer's Dialog Utility), so I wrote a console parser/generator in C++ that could understand the EBNF text grammar and create blueprint trees for the text that Ameistris - the core writer of this mod - was writing. However, it could not help me verify the results, so when the combined conditions for the planned lines of text became too complex, I knew that maybe, just maybe, I needed to use the GUI-based approach instead of this:
Figure 3. The process of creating the first versions of this mod in 2023
So I started learning Qt and creating a GUI-based editor, which is helping us immensely, and now I'm knuckle-deep (don't use that adverb - but I want to! - ...okay) in it.
The editor is much more user-friendly than it was 6 months ago (although it still crashes sometimes), but I still need to work on some aspects, including necessary features, UI and usability.
This is what it looks like now:
Figure 4. In June 2024, I finally visualized all the injected trees and connecting links interactively while creating new dialogs, otherwise it was incredibly easy to make a mistake.
Figure 5. In July 2024, I finally started working on mod patch management, and this was the moment we realized the complexity of iceberg no. 1 (although the image above has Greybor's patch for his main dialog file, we thank you, Daeran's patch, you helped us understand a lot).
Figure 6. The blueprint view and edit page is also more useful than it was 6 months ago (when it was all "look, but don't touch"), although it still lacks the collapsible panes and the action and text management features other than simple text editing.
Once the editor is stable, looks better, and has some more necessary features, I'd like to release it, so other people can make more mods like ours. It will also require to writing everything we've learned along the way, but maybe it will be worth it for someone.
We understand that new content, especially fan-made material, may not always be to everyone's liking, especially in Chapter 5, where huge chunks of text are to be written from scratch.
However, since we don't add things just for the sake of adding them, it's rather not gracious to ask us to remove what we've added, unless there's some serious reason other than a difference of opinion.
But we do want to remain gracious, and as such we would like to provide an option to turn off some parts of our mod that particular users may not find to their liking. Matters of preference, completely understandable.
As for the reasons why we add one thing or another, there is the example of the killing of Inquisitor Hulrun in Chapter 1. The MC - not yet a Commander - and their companions kill a man who was the pillar of religious authority in all of Mendev and one of the main organizers of the city's defense at the time. How could his demise go unnoticed? There is a magnitude to it. And so, should the MC later try to talk to Liotr - Hulrun's longtime disciple and partner - about Hulrun's fate, they will be interrogated. With checks, of course: this is to be expected. For Liotr is not the kind of man to be lied to with ease.
We will continue to weave the ripples of this deed through all the chapters, because we feel it is necessary.
This is sort of an homage to the Owlcat's own style, where things from earlier chapters come into play much later in a game. In Kingmaker, if you keep a ring from a certain gnome that you get in the prologue until you meet a certain ruler, you will have a unique line of dialogue about that and how that ring came to be. And that's the kind of effect we want to recreate here.
Another controversial change was the addition of some alternate lines to the sparring scene with Lann in Chapter 3. We didn't just try to add spellcaster reactivity and athleticism checks for no reason - we were asked to do so by players who were as far away from melee as possible in their playthroughs.
And the same thought was expressed on the forums. This plot point was drastically discouraging to female players who didn't understand why the hell their potential LI was calling them into a fist fight, especially if they were playing as a spellcaster.
To summarize, we do not plan to remove any parts of the mod, although some may be revised as we grow and evolve. But we hope that the introduction of modularity will be a boon, allowing our users to tailor our content to their playstyle and views.
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Adapting 0.9.9a and 0.9.9b content for demons, liches, and (hopefully) SWARMS.
As mentioned in Iceberg no. 2, there will be separate conversation packs for these specific mythic paths, as they require a different approach
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New dialogs after returning from Pulura Falls and the more secret Areelu Laboratory. Modification of the interaction system for this mod.
There are still some major plot points in Chapter 5 that require post-event discussion, so after implementing modularity, we plan to add that content with Icebergs #1 and #2 in mind. However, we would also like to try to change the interaction system so that it would not be necessary to click on companions over and over again for those who prefer to discuss all past events in bulk. Hopefully the tools from Iceberg #3 will help us with this task.
P.S. Yes, we know, this message is HUGE; we are on a lookout for another platform to write our long, long, long development logs.
Damn guys, this is great. Can’t wait to see more demons content as Act 5 is oddly devoid of any reactivity (Iz anyone?). Hopefully we will also get some content for a certain demon advisor we get if Yozz doesn’t survive.
Also I would definitely donate something if you added a tip box
Thanks for your kind words! We're not planning on setting up a tip box in the near future, but it's still incredibly heartwarming to hear your words of support!
So whilst looking at mods for my first playthrough I figured I'd check the discussion tab just to see reviews on the quality of writing, and WOW whilst this post didn't address that point it didn't need to. The level of thought and dedication showcased here is enough to convince me that you're not going to be people who go through so much work just to add clunky and/or OOC dialogue.
Congratulations, you've convinced a lit major to download your writing mod almost site-unseen!
Really excited about the extra content for Demon Commanders—I'm playing as a tiefling on a Demon Path, so I can’t wait! I also shared an idea in the Ideas forum. It’s awesome that you have that set up!
We also feel strongly that tiefling commanders should be recognized (source: I prefer to play as a tiefling). After we finish patching the core parts of the massive Chapter 5 (we're in the most secret Areelu lab right now), we'll look at that.
I think it'll be in a separate update with the noble reactivity, 'cause noble tieflings are... unique.
Hi there, thanks so much for this mod I am really enjoying it! I don't know if it is precisely in the purview of this mod but I have always felt the conversation between you, your team, and the members of "the league of the inspiring cart" is lacking in dialogue options when you meet them for the first time in Act 1. This is especially the case with Curl, when even if you try to ignore the fact that he is searching bodies, you have no choice but to call him out on it at some point. I know there is a story reason that the devs wanted to force you to call him out on it so that you can look back on his actions later and remember the events that lead up to how things turn out later, but it still feels so odd that you are walking around looting everything in sight and are forced to call out Curl on it.
That's a pretty good point! While there may be a (coding) reason why there is only one answer, we can certainly look into adding more reactivity to the scene. After all, didn't our Not Yet Commander do the exact the same thing? And no one called us out on it! (looking at you, Woljif)
We are planning to add Lich/Demon content for Chapter 5, but both paths are very specific in how they change Drezen (the same goes for the Swarm, actually), so it's a slow process, especially since we don't have a lot of saves for either of them.
So if you could share saves for, say, the Lich path for the start of Chapter 3 and one for the start of Chapter 5, that would help a lot in creating the content that should match the world state.
Daeran isn't reacting after the Vescavor Queen for me. He reacted in the Blackwing library though and I blew a kiss his way. I may have said he was full of himself in Chapter 1 because I thought it was banter and he said about ignoring the complements I was giving him a moment ago, but I can't recall if this was before or after the Library. Had the interaction in the Gray Garrison too. ToyBox says the romance was started, and flags the Caleb dialogue as completed, but I get nothing for the Vescavor Queen encounter. The flag doesn't fire. Is that intentional if the romance isn't going to progress? I was hoping to get that reaction, so I wonder if I've messed up.
We are very sorry to hear that you experienced such a problem in your playthrough, although our mod does not touch that moment of the game.
However, we've sometimes seen similar strange things (vanilla game dialogs breaking or not triggering, mythic options randomly and completely disabled, etc.) in reports from users who have ToyBox installed alongside our mod.
That's why we added the [gfr] tag to the beginning lines of the dialogs and lines we inject - so we can distinguish the direct bugs of our mod from this weird ToyBox synergy.
First of all, in such cases, we strongly recommend unchecking all dialog-related options in the Preview and Dialog-related panes of ToyBox (usually the option that breaks the dialog chains is the one that says "Expand Dialog to Include Remote Companions"):
However, there have been cases where unchecking these options did not help. We personally had to deal with such problems in the Lost Chapel and Regill's Q3 locations. That's when we had to temporarily uninstall ToyBox and load an earlier save (in the case of Lost Chapel, the one before entering the affected location): that helped restore the dialog flow. Of course, we reinstalled ToyBox as soon as we got past the problematic dialogs.
Nevertheless, we are deeply troubled to see such strange game behavior associated with our mod once again. We'd like to get more information so that we can thoroughly investigate your case ourselves. Here's what we really need:
The full game log, which can be found in the parent folder of your savegame folder:
The save file before this dialog should trigger along with the list of your other installed mods - so we can properly load the save.
The list of your current dialog options enabled in ToyBox - so we can test this combination and check exactly which of them might misbehave this time.
Before I potentially waste more of your time, I'm going to rush a new game tomorrow to leaper's smile with everything the same, dialogue choices too, and see if a new game fixes it, then see if me somehow saying he is full of himself in CH1 and saying I valued his skills in CH2 before he set off makes a difference. Then I'll load a save before those dialogues, not say anything in CH1 at the Defender's Heart and give a vanilla response in CH2 then rush again to leaper's smile if necessary. If I still don't get the reaction after the queen, I'll rush again with only ToyBox (and any other mod I have active) and not this mod. If I still don't get it, then I'll remove every single mod I installed since I started the new game, but active in my previous character when I did get it.
It may not be this mod. I may just be really unlucky with a flag not triggering (and the other ones like the library and the gray garrison did). That's why I'll just try a new game first. While it may be a flag I think for his CH4 scene, I don't think it's a critical halt to his romance. ToyBox implied it wasn't dead in the water, I'm sure it would have progressed as normal since you could just not take him into Leaper's Smile. For the record I didn't have any dialog options active in ToyBox except for one disabling alignment restrictions, but I don't think the game has any like Kingmaker did?
I wasn't sure if me saying what I said to him in CH1 affected any reactions he may have given in future locations. It didn't seem to for the Library and Garrison. Maybe me choosing a non vanilla option with him at the start of CH2 did something. It's hard to tell, so I'll do my own tests first. I have everything like the logs and modlist just in case before I've done anything. I'll leave a another reply when I'm done.
I don't want to make a big issue of it, since it doesn't seem essential to progress. I just have bad OCD with choosing dialogs, missing dialogs and generally trying to get a perfect RP accurate run. When I miss something, or torture myself thinking I've chosen the wrong thing for my character for even the slightest thing, it can kill a run even if nothing ultimately changes. It's probably just me with this flag not firing, so I'll see what I can test before using up more of your time.
I've found the culprit, and thankfully it did not require strenuous testing. It was pic related.
Dialog number 3, which kills the romance and thus prevented the reaction after the Vescavor Queen. It stands to reason all other subsequent romance related reactions would not have fired too. Strangely this option did not appear at first for this run. I had to reload the game for the [gfr] dialog to appear and I'm not sure why. I think I recall an instance in my original save having to do that to get a [gfr] dialog to show.
Knowing this, I reloaded my original save. No mods were different between the test save and my proper save. Unstarting and restarting the romance in ToyBox got me the reaction I wanted in the original save! I'll be honest, I did not think at the time saying to Daeran it was too bad he was leaving and that I valued his skills would kill the romance dead, since I already triggered the romance flags for the Blackwing Library and Gray Garrison. In my opinion it seemed like a neutral, more professional dialog option that didn't imply I didn't give a damn about his interest in me. So I thought it would neither have triggered the romance if I hadn't already, nor kill it. I was mistaken at the time it seems. I don't play with preview options in ToyBox that shows me what dialog triggers what you see.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention! It really is something to consider.
This line was intended to be a mild rejection, so it was assigned the action of ending Daeran's romance etude and points to the same response cue as the more severe "hard pass" line.
However, with your help, we now realize that its vibe can also be seen as a bit vague, so we'll rethink how to handle this line and the scene in general.
I logged on to bug report exactly this one and found it was already discovered. English is not my first language, so maybe I'm cluelessly wandering in shades of meaning, but this phrase doesn't look like mild rejection. Daeran states that he is leaving, hired chef and *other entertainments* (with pointy ears, obviously ><), PC reply is not a rejection in this context.
I discovered that romance is broken near the end of Act 3, however I was managed to save it reverting dozen of DaeranRomance Etude knobs. At least I've got extremely late rose event and I think the game will catch up the other bits of romance.
We see your point and thank you for your feedback!
From the beginning, however, Ameistris and I saw this option as a mild rejection in this very context.
If you recall, all of the canonical in-game points for starting Daeran's romance (and later earning his trust) require the player to tread lightly, to be witty and charismatic. The Commander needs to pay attention to him specifically, not act all business-like and/or exploitative (remember his birthday party options? If players ask him to fill out reports or be otherwise useful, they get a -5 trust penalty and increase his displeasure counter, as well as learn about his throne sex fantasies in writing).
Figure 1. Canonically, Daeran is picky about how players respond to his flirtations (source: Grey Garrison, end of Chapter 1).
The camp scene takes place at the beginning of Chapter 2; this is still the beginning of his and the Commander's acquaintance. At this point, Daeran wants nothing to do with the Crusade and is ready to leave the war camp, dancers, horses, and all.
Thus, the fact that the Commander is not interested in him for himself (which is a must for him at this point), but rather in using him and his healing skills for the good of the d-mned* Crusade, can be seen as a very glaring no-go for his romance. *in Daeran's opinion
However, we can see that the intent of this line is not reaching its intended audience, and we'll consider how to modify this scene to allow players to reject his advances without being blatantly rude.
Does anyone have an issue where this mod will install and run fine yet is not detected as installed so your load file will have a red x mark instead of a green check? It happens with Fullbore Bismuth too and both are the different Owlcat mods. It works and I do get the extra dialogue but I hate seeing that red x on my load file.
No. We are focusing on expanding the friendly and romantic interactions within the scope of the original game, so we are not adding new romances in this mod.
Can't find an answer and since bit newer to modding WotR, does this conflict with the Camellia Romance Expanded at all? I'm assuming not cause one is end slides and this isn't but might as well check!
Do this work in german localization? . Becouse i have polish localization what works on german localization. I mean, everything is in polish but do i get english extra teksts? or i need play in english?
I checked and every tekst is: uknow key... dont work
If i change name in modification folder enGB.json on deDE.json it would work? I dont want destroy my game
263 comments
Thanks for mentioning our project in the official Steam and Reddit threads, we really appreciate it! We are currently working on
our next update for Chapter 5 (the reactivity cutscene after the most secret
veiledAreelu lab goes brrrrr) and we'll be able to release the update when it's done.-------
Hello folks, and thanks for being here!
We recently released 0.9.9b and wanted to tell you a little bit about some of the things we encountered while working on it.
Basically, we had to be careful not to hit one of the icebergs in Chapter 5.
Content of this post:
- Iceberg no. 1 - Reactivity vs Quest Integration
- Iceberg no. 2 - Drastically Different World States and Companion Quest Outcomes
- Iceberg no. 3 - Instruments vs. Conditions
- What's next?
- Modularity and customization in 0.9.9c
- Adapting 0.9.9a and 0.9.9b content for demons, liches, and (hopefully) SWARMS
- New dialogs after returning from Pulura Falls and the more secret Areelu Laboratory. Modification of the interaction system for this mod.
Beware, there are spoilers ahead!Iceberg no. 1 - Reactivity vs Quest Integration
Not seeing game feedback on important plot events can be quite disappointing to a player. But it's even worse when the reactions come at the wrong time, like laughing right after a funeral. And if the user's walkthrough scenarios are not taken into account, the chances of such a mishap are incredibly high for all those companions whose personal quests culminate in Chapter 5.
So far, we've added the content that looks best in the scenario where a player talks to companions immediately after each major quest outcome. However, Ameistris pointed out that it's only natural for a player to cover multiple plot points that are close together on the game map. So it's very likely that the Commander will talk to Daeran after visiting Iz, Ineluctable Prison, and his own Q3 location. And yeah, it would seem odd if he did not at least try to (refuse to) comment on the outcome of his own life-and-death situation before talking about something else:
Figure 1. Daeran's preface will be triggered when a player tries to talk to him in Drezen after his Q3 and before his later in-game Q3/romance talks.
However, these lines are not shown if {the Commander has given him to the Inquisition} AND {he is not romanced}, because then Daeran would not come to talk to the player later. So for that case, we'll have to come up with a different stub that fits the mood (and hopefully not OOC). The same goes for Lann, Seelah, Camellia, etc., because they all have their own turning points in their respective Q3s, so their own conversation priorities should reflect that.
This is where we hit the iceberg no. 2.
Iceberg no. 2 - Drastically Different World States and Companion Quest Outcomes
Chapter 5, while somewhat lacking in content, offers absolutely divergent world states and companion fates. For instance, Arueshalae and Wojif can end up as two completely different characters, depending on the choices made in previous chapters. Similarly, the final quests for others in Chapter 5 will affect more than just a few lines.
Take Nenio, for example: a player might face the "I'm a person, I'm nothing" dilemma, while with Daeran, the Commander can continue as best friend/tolerated companion or turn him over to the Inquisition. Lann shows significant variation depending on whether he's alive and confident or alive and depressed. For Sosiel, the scenario changes depending on whether his brother is with him, has been killed, or was never found in the first place. Additionally, his romance subplot can change dramatically based on Mythic choices. The same goes for Ember, whose character evolves significantly depending on the Commander's Mythic path.
The content that we've added so far for Chapter 5 may be more appropriate for angels, azatas, legends, dragons, probably devils, and maybe demons trying to mitigate the consequences of being demons.
However, serious folks like liches, swarms, and demons who are proud to be demons would definitely require additional conversation packs.
Figure 2. Liches get some acknowledgement in 0.9.9a and 0.9.9b, but their vibe should dominate every aspect of their conversations.
We would like to thank Ryuuichi009 for providing us with a demonic save during a bug-fixing expedition last year. This save helped us realize how much difference there is between the mythic sub-branches, and we'll definitely respect that and adjust the content of 0.9.9a and 0.9.9b accordingly.
Here we come, iceberg no. 3.
The complexity of conditions.
Iceberg no. 3 - Instruments vs. Conditions
We would like to emphasize that we greatly respect the work of the other modders who have created the specific tools for modding via code injection with C#, but this is not the approach we want to use until absolutely necessary.
From the first moment I saw Owlcat's mod template based on injecting blueprints as files, I knew that this was exactly the approach that we needed to make our dialog project work. So for the last two years I've been working on the tools to help us create this mod.
At first I wanted to go the WeiDU route (BG1/2 fans should recognize the acronym, as in Weimer's Dialog Utility), so I wrote a console parser/generator in C++ that could understand the EBNF text grammar and create blueprint trees for the text that Ameistris - the core writer of this mod - was writing. However, it could not help me verify the results, so when the combined conditions for the planned lines of text became too complex, I knew that maybe, just maybe, I needed to use the GUI-based approach instead of this:
Figure 3. The process of creating the first versions of this mod in 2023
So I started learning Qt and creating a GUI-based editor, which is helping us immensely, and now I'm knuckle-deep (don't use that adverb - but I want to! - ...okay) in it.
The editor is much more user-friendly than it was 6 months ago (although it still crashes sometimes), but I still need to work on some aspects, including necessary features, UI and usability.
This is what it looks like now:
Figure 4. In June 2024, I finally visualized all the injected trees and connecting links interactively while creating new dialogs, otherwise it was incredibly easy to make a mistake.
Figure 5. In July 2024, I finally started working on mod patch management, and this was the moment we realized the complexity of iceberg no. 1 (although the image above has Greybor's patch for his main dialog file, we thank you, Daeran's patch, you helped us understand a lot).
Figure 6. The blueprint view and edit page is also more useful than it was 6 months ago (when it was all "look, but don't touch"), although it still lacks the collapsible panes and the action and text management features other than simple text editing.
Once the editor is stable, looks better, and has some more necessary features, I'd like to release it, so other people can make more mods like ours. It will also require to writing everything we've learned along the way, but maybe it will be worth it for someone.
I just wish life didn't always imitate this meme.
What's next?
Modularity and customization in 0.9.9c
We understand that new content, especially fan-made material, may not always be to everyone's liking, especially in Chapter 5, where huge chunks of text are to be written from scratch.
However, since we don't add things just for the sake of adding them, it's rather not gracious to ask us to remove what we've added, unless there's some serious reason other than a difference of opinion.
But we do want to remain gracious, and as such we would like to provide an option to turn off some parts of our mod that particular users may not find to their liking. Matters of preference, completely understandable.
As for the reasons why we add one thing or another, there is the example of the killing of Inquisitor Hulrun in Chapter 1. The MC - not yet a Commander - and their companions kill a man who was the pillar of religious authority in all of Mendev and one of the main organizers of the city's defense at the time. How could his demise go unnoticed? There is a magnitude to it. And so, should the MC later try to talk to Liotr - Hulrun's longtime disciple and partner - about Hulrun's fate, they will be interrogated. With checks, of course: this is to be expected. For Liotr is not the kind of man to be lied to with ease.
We will continue to weave the ripples of this deed through all the chapters, because we feel it is necessary.
This is sort of an homage to the Owlcat's own style, where things from earlier chapters come into play much later in a game. In Kingmaker, if you keep a ring from a certain gnome that you get in the prologue until you meet a certain ruler, you will have a unique line of dialogue about that and how that ring came to be. And that's the kind of effect we want to recreate here.
Another controversial change was the addition of some alternate lines to the sparring scene with Lann in Chapter 3. We didn't just try to add spellcaster reactivity and athleticism checks for no reason - we were asked to do so by players who were as far away from melee as possible in their playthroughs.
And the same thought was expressed on the forums. This plot point was drastically discouraging to female players who didn't understand why the hell their potential LI was calling them into a fist fight, especially if they were playing as a spellcaster.
To summarize, we do not plan to remove any parts of the mod, although some may be revised as we grow and evolve. But we hope that the introduction of modularity will be a boon, allowing our users to tailor our content to their playstyle and views.
-------
Adapting 0.9.9a and 0.9.9b content for demons, liches, and (hopefully) SWARMS.
As mentioned in Iceberg no. 2, there will be separate conversation packs for these specific mythic paths, as they require a different approach
-------
New dialogs after returning from Pulura Falls and the more secret Areelu Laboratory.
Modification of the interaction system for this mod.
There are still some major plot points in Chapter 5 that require post-event discussion, so after implementing modularity, we plan to add that content with Icebergs #1 and #2 in mind. However, we would also like to try to change the interaction system so that it would not be necessary to click on companions over and over again for those who prefer to discuss all past events in bulk. Hopefully the tools from Iceberg #3 will help us with this task.
P.S. Yes, we know, this message is HUGE; we are on a lookout for another platform to write our long, long, long development logs.
Also I would definitely donate something if you added a tip box
Thanks for your kind words! We're not planning on setting up a tip box in the near future, but it's still incredibly heartwarming to hear your words of support!
Really excited about the extra content for Demon Commanders—I'm playing as a tiefling on a Demon Path, so I can’t wait!
I also shared an idea in the Ideas forum. It’s awesome that you have that set up!
Congratulations, you've convinced a lit major to download your writing mod almost site-unseen!
Thank you!
We also feel strongly that tiefling commanders should be recognized (source: I prefer to play as a tiefling). After we finish patching the core parts of the massive Chapter 5 (we're in the most secret Areelu lab right now), we'll look at that.
I think it'll be in a separate update with the noble reactivity, 'cause noble tieflings are... unique.
And they are definitely not to be disrespected.
Thank you, Zutiala!
We apologize for the delay in responding, but we sincerely hope that you have found some rewarding moments while playing the game with our mod.
I just wanted to say that I love this mod. Please keep up the good work!
Thank you for your kind words!
That's a pretty good point! While there may be a (coding) reason why there is only one answer, we can certainly look into adding more reactivity to the scene. After all, didn't our Not Yet Commander do the exact the same thing? And no one called us out on it! (looking at you, Woljif)
We are planning to add Lich/Demon content for Chapter 5, but both paths are very specific in how they change Drezen (the same goes for the Swarm, actually), so it's a slow process, especially since we don't have a lot of saves for either of them.
So if you could share saves for, say, the Lich path for the start of Chapter 3 and one for the start of Chapter 5, that would help a lot in creating the content that should match the world state.
We are very sorry to hear that you experienced such a problem in your playthrough, although our mod does not touch that moment of the game.
However, we've sometimes seen similar strange things (vanilla game dialogs breaking or not triggering, mythic options randomly and completely disabled, etc.) in reports from users who have ToyBox installed alongside our mod.
That's why we added the [gfr] tag to the beginning lines of the dialogs and lines we inject - so we can distinguish the direct bugs of our mod from this weird ToyBox synergy.
First of all, in such cases, we strongly recommend unchecking all dialog-related options in the Preview and Dialog-related panes of ToyBox (usually the option that breaks the dialog chains is the one that says "Expand Dialog to Include Remote Companions"):
However, there have been cases where unchecking these options did not help. We personally had to deal with such problems in the Lost Chapel and Regill's Q3 locations.
That's when we had to temporarily uninstall ToyBox and load an earlier save (in the case of Lost Chapel, the one before entering the affected location): that helped restore the dialog flow.
Of course, we reinstalled ToyBox as soon as we got past the problematic dialogs.
Nevertheless, we are deeply troubled to see such strange game behavior associated with our mod once again. We'd like to get more information so that we can thoroughly investigate your case ourselves. Here's what we really need:
Before I potentially waste more of your time, I'm going to rush a new game tomorrow to leaper's smile with everything the same, dialogue choices too, and see if a new game fixes it, then see if me somehow saying he is full of himself in CH1 and saying I valued his skills in CH2 before he set off makes a difference. Then I'll load a save before those dialogues, not say anything in CH1 at the Defender's Heart and give a vanilla response in CH2 then rush again to leaper's smile if necessary. If I still don't get the reaction after the queen, I'll rush again with only ToyBox (and any other mod I have active) and not this mod. If I still don't get it, then I'll remove every single mod I installed since I started the new game, but active in my previous character when I did get it.
It may not be this mod. I may just be really unlucky with a flag not triggering (and the other ones like the library and the gray garrison did). That's why I'll just try a new game first. While it may be a flag I think for his CH4 scene, I don't think it's a critical halt to his romance. ToyBox implied it wasn't dead in the water, I'm sure it would have progressed as normal since you could just not take him into Leaper's Smile. For the record I didn't have any dialog options active in ToyBox except for one disabling alignment restrictions, but I don't think the game has any like Kingmaker did?
I wasn't sure if me saying what I said to him in CH1 affected any reactions he may have given in future locations. It didn't seem to for the Library and Garrison. Maybe me choosing a non vanilla option with him at the start of CH2 did something. It's hard to tell, so I'll do my own tests first. I have everything like the logs and modlist just in case before I've done anything. I'll leave a another reply when I'm done.
I don't want to make a big issue of it, since it doesn't seem essential to progress. I just have bad OCD with choosing dialogs, missing dialogs and generally trying to get a perfect RP accurate run. When I miss something, or torture myself thinking I've chosen the wrong thing for my character for even the slightest thing, it can kill a run even if nothing ultimately changes. It's probably just me with this flag not firing, so I'll see what I can test before using up more of your time.
I've found the culprit, and thankfully it did not require strenuous testing. It was pic related.
Dialog number 3, which kills the romance and thus prevented the reaction after the Vescavor Queen. It stands to reason all other subsequent romance related reactions would not have fired too. Strangely this option did not appear at first for this run. I had to reload the game for the [gfr] dialog to appear and I'm not sure why. I think I recall an instance in my original save having to do that to get a [gfr] dialog to show.
Knowing this, I reloaded my original save. No mods were different between the test save and my proper save. Unstarting and restarting the romance in ToyBox got me the reaction I wanted in the original save! I'll be honest, I did not think at the time saying to Daeran it was too bad he was leaving and that I valued his skills would kill the romance dead, since I already triggered the romance flags for the Blackwing Library and Gray Garrison. In my opinion it seemed like a neutral, more professional dialog option that didn't imply I didn't give a damn about his interest in me. So I thought it would neither have triggered the romance if I hadn't already, nor kill it. I was mistaken at the time it seems. I don't play with preview options in ToyBox that shows me what dialog triggers what you see.
This line was intended to be a mild rejection, so it was assigned the action of ending Daeran's romance etude and points to the same response cue as the more severe "hard pass" line.
However, with your help, we now realize that its vibe can also be seen as a bit vague, so we'll rethink how to handle this line and the scene in general.
I discovered that romance is broken near the end of Act 3, however I was managed to save it reverting dozen of DaeranRomance Etude knobs. At least I've got extremely late rose event and I think the game will catch up the other bits of romance.
We see your point and thank you for your feedback!
From the beginning, however, Ameistris and I saw this option as a mild rejection in this very context.
If you recall, all of the canonical in-game points for starting Daeran's romance (and later earning his trust) require the player to tread lightly, to be witty and charismatic. The Commander needs to pay attention to him specifically, not act all business-like and/or exploitative (remember his birthday party options? If players ask him to fill out reports or be otherwise useful, they get a -5 trust penalty and increase his displeasure counter,
as well as learn about his throne sex fantasies in writing).Figure 1. Canonically, Daeran is picky about how players respond to his flirtations (source: Grey Garrison, end of Chapter 1).
The camp scene takes place at the beginning of Chapter 2; this is still the beginning of his and the Commander's acquaintance. At this point, Daeran wants nothing to do with the Crusade and is ready to leave the war camp, dancers, horses, and all.
Thus, the fact that the Commander is not interested in him for himself (which is a must for him at this point), but rather in using him and his healing skills for the good of the d-mned* Crusade, can be seen as a very glaring no-go for his romance.
*in Daeran's opinion
However, we can see that the intent of this line is not reaching its intended audience, and we'll consider how to modify this scene to allow players to reject his advances without being blatantly rude.
No. We are focusing on expanding the friendly and romantic interactions within the scope of the original game, so we are not adding new romances in this mod.
I checked and every tekst is: uknow key... dont work
If i change name in modification folder enGB.json on deDE.json it would work? I dont want destroy my game
Its work:)
We'll look into it and release the fix in the next update.