All the ai npc ships use the jumpdrive if installed and use the portals as arriving point. To avoid conflicts, lags and general slowdowns that happen when you add the jumping function inside the general move scripts, I edited the main commands. So ship will jump when one of these orders is given (by player or by ai) or with some internal orders:
- dock to .. - fly to position or fly to object (station, ship) - follow.. - various patrol commands, both as default or as direct order (defend) - various attack orders, attack single ship or in range - both default routine for trading and mining (these requiring the expert level to jump to several sectors anyway) - many other internal orders such as the defend leader ship or seek for enemies
I've done two kinds of coding for each file: one for player's subordinates, one for ai npc ships. While ai orders are melted within the single order, for the player I made the jump part be a separated order that is added before the specific command, so if you e.g. command a ship to dock to a station, two orders will be executed, the first one is a fly to (with jump). This has changed a bit in latest updates
I've added a small chance that the jumping fails and you end jumping to an anomaly instead of a portal (which is a structure that surrounds an anomaly indeed), the chance is minuscule for npc ai while is a bit more for any ship where the player is on board.
I've also worked on a routines, i.e. the ship will make multiple jumps if the target is very far, using all the portals it meets along the path. After each jump there is a cooldown phase that is shown by various effects and messages in the cabin, if player is on board, or external effects if not.
Some orders have simplified routines, for instance the trade/mine routine have a single jump only (no repeat) because these commonly have a range of max 9, so no need to overdo. Of course if you want a ship to go beyond that you can command it to fly, it will perform multiple jumps up to destination (if a portal is closer than destination).
All ships having a jump drive can jump TO a portal, but player and subordinates can also perform FREE jumps FROM a portal. A little bonus for the player that should not be too cheaty but allows to speed up things. When close to a portal (within 8km) you can activate the special commands (already in previous XRSGE). Start guidance using the map, when map closes the jump menu will appear.
New is instead the jumping suite of commands that you can use for your subordinates, by calling them:
This allows to speed thing up because subordinates will use the portal as STARTING point to reach you: - will jump and follow (but not join squad) - will jump and join - will perform an EMERGENCY jump! (very useful..) - will jump to you as fast as possible - last order is disabled for now
The idea behind the emergency jump is of course that with the jump drive the ship needs a portal to focus a long jump but can make an unfocused very short one to escape. It will indeed jump to a few kms and will do only if the player commands it. This emergency jump will totally drain ship's shields...so be careful.
I wrote the suite before working on the many ai scripts, so some of these are a bit redundant (if you command any ship to follow, it will jump to a portal first if shorter, anyway). But these special commands allow the ships to perform FREE jumps, i.e. to points in space where the player is, so combining the two (first jump to a portal then command to jump to you, you can reunite your followers in short time (with 2 commands). Hopefully not too cheaty..
I've also injected in many commands, and in the general moving command either, the function TRAVEL to END that should make the ships more reactive in using the travel drive up to destination. This latter is to be tested, but in conjunction with jumping that is used so often the travels will be shorter for sure.
I've released the patch 8.2.3 With this patch: - video notifications are optional, you can thick the box in the command's interface. Default is silent. If you have a large fleet, notifications can be a spam
- added ship's name to the hud notifications - removed the bug of player jumping to ANY station (already in patch 8.2.2) ------------------------------------------------------- !!! PLEASE DELETE EXT_03 IF YOU HAVE IT IN YOUR MOD !!! -------------------------------------------------------
Patch 8.2.4 With this patch: - hud notifications (texts) are also optional (as video comm), by default they are silent, you can activate them clicking to expand and inside the order Fly to - Jump
- added compatibility with Hyperion (delete the compatibility-patch if you added it) - many small fixes - removed ALL BIG DISRUPT ZONES (let alone those around planets and moons, sun coronas and gas/roids pockets, debris fields)
Reason of change? The disrupt zones are recorded in the save file when a ship enters them so the save file ends being bloated. It causes NO LAG, only a big save file.. The alert for player remains so as the disrupt for AUTOPILOT when close to stations or asteroid or to mine fields, for player only. If you fly without autopilot you can travel inside asteroids as a good pilot. Your pilots do it too. I will re-add some small no travel zones in strategic places. These were nice also to make ambush to ships to board... NO MORE NEED OF THE "Travel as No tomorrow" mini-mod.
How to update an old save? It should happen automatically but if you want to mess with the save to remove the leftover of the disrupt zones, do this:
1) backup your save file 2) extract it and open it 3) delete every <influences> and every </influences> (be aware, influenceS..with S final). This can be automated, so just a few clicks 4) save file and zip it again in the correct forma gzip 5) in game, of course after loading the modified save, save it again and see if the size has reduced (it should significantly)
Or you can simply check the new save after the update, it the file has reduced then the above procedure is not necessary
Ok guys I think I can confirm the Black Hole Sun glitch for NE superhighway
I found another superhighway that makes this strange thing, in Great Profit IV, the north-west superhighway. It had overlapping entrances but also after fixing them the ships got stuck, the only way to solve it was removing it and moving the gate closer to the others. I'll do the same for Black Hole Sun superhighway.
I don't see any other superhighway making this glitch but please take a look in some advanced game of yours...I don't mean a couple of ships stuck or the patrol ships awaiting at entrances, they could take long time close to a gate, I mean something biblical as in the picture above
I found the cause for black hole sun glitch, but not for Great Profit one. I decided to remove the NE superhighway in B.H.Sun anyway, it brings no real strategic or cosmetic change on map. Please keep an eye on any other entrance where the glitch could happen...checking all superhighway's entrances is beyond my two eyes only
-------------------------------------------------- Download the PATCH for The Expanse v.8.2.7 - small various fixes - removed a superhighway in B.Hole Sun and one in Greater Profit (gate moved accordingly) Ships could take long before returning to their course, I think the AI must reset. If you want to speed up things, you can use the cheat mod, selecting the ship/change ownership (set faction) then by targeting one by one each stuck ship you can re-assign the race to each, identical as it is. This will make the ship restart the commands and AI.
MOD REPACK version 7.2.9d FIXED PARANID PLOT There are many small fixes. Subordinate ships following a leader with attack command will not have a fly_to (jump) anymore, only the leader will have. They remained waiting at the destination sector, so had to change it. If you started the Paranid plot, it is enough if you load a save one step before you go scanning the monument with space suite
Please update also STARS (patch provided, very light) and REM Hyperdrive (for better behavior of big ships at gates)
I DON'T LIKE THE TRAVEL LIMITATIONS IN ASTEROID FIELDS ETC. I made small mod to remove them; for a piece of cake experience in The Expanse. Download in the optional files. Install it as another mod... SINCE VERSION 8.2.6 TRAVEL DISRUPT IS LIMITED TO PLANET'S LOW ORBITS, GAS POCKET, DEBRIS AND SMALL DENSE ASTEROID POCKETS. NO NEED OF THE MINI MOD TO REMOVE THEM
ADDING JUMP DRIVE TO CUSTOM SHIPS BY OTHR MODS ? Other ships mods can not work out of the box, but adding the software is very easy and everyone can do it in new ship mod's folder after extracting it and removing the cat file. Add the following to XL ships in the <software> ... </software> space <software ware="xrsge_software_jump_xl" compatible="1" /> Add the following to L ships in the <software> ... </software> space <software ware="xrsge_software_jump_l" compatible="1" />And the same to S/M ships with: <software ware="xrsge_software_jump_s" compatible="1" />
CAN IT BE USED WITH VRO ?
Yes, but use REM Hyperdrive and set dependency of Hyperdrive from VRO as optional, see in the mod's discussion. If VRO does not add new ships, you still need to make XRSGE load after VRO or the jumpdrive won't be available and probably a lot of AI issues will occur. So set also dependency of XRSGE from VRO, as optional of course. Adding this to XRSGE's content.xml should suffice (I will add too in next update): <dependency id="ws_1696862840" optional="true" name="VRO"/> Always check that the ID is correct in latest version of the mod you use. As general rule, XRSGE is an overhaul that has to touch any aspect of the game, so making it load AFTER any mod you use is a good idea to avoid bad conflicts. My mods are internally related with dependency, so do not need any change XRSGE-->REM Overhaul-->REM Hyperdrive and the various smaller ones. Other mods that could potentially conflict must ALWAYS have the dependency (optional="true") in XRSGE to be sure that XRSGE is loaded AFTER.
Im unclear if this is related to XRSGE or not, but after a few hours of a new game I noticed all ships entering Black Hole Sun IV getting stuck at a highway when trying to exit. Even when I reassign my ships route to exit a different gate, it gets there, then turns around and goes back to the stuck gate and stops there. I havent tested without other mods yet, but wanted to see if this was known, with a solution before going there...
EDIT: Resolved: This issue is due to Kuda AI Tweaks.
Using AI mods on top of XRSGE and Hyperdrive mods means trying to break the game :) If you want to do it anyway, please add the DEPENDENCY in XRSGE (See above sticky)
i dont know if thats a knowing issiue, but i cant stand up some times. i can see the option to leave the pilot seat, but it dose not work. it just dose nothing
It is very rare but can happen, yes. Still have not figured out why. Some people have more, I have it very rarely..my suspect for now is the cheat mod, I activate it only to fix things and noticed it happening. Do you maybe use the cheat mod?
nope, i dont. But i have some script mods installed. but none dose affect the faction AI. I thought it was maby loading order error or somthing. can i fix that issiue with teleporting out of the seat?.
PS: havent unlocked the Teleport research now, thats why i ask
What do you mean, ships? Sectors are 1000x bigger, ships are all in the specific zones where stations are. Try putting sats at every gate/superhighway, it is full of ships...and zoom in, the sector you see is not as as vanilla, it is zoomed out 1000x, indeed, to contain 1000x the space of vanilla
sorry i am stuped...didnt think that far. nice work with the mod!. Even if you sunk a lot of time in this Special project, i realy hope you have some joy with it. I needed my time, but now i also enjoy it.
Impressive mod that I am considering using but I have a couple of questions:
1) Do you plan to produce a map like X4 True Map for this that shows sector resource levels and locations of highways and stations like shipyards, wharfs, equipment docks, and trading stations? see https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/1671
2) Will this work with Mules Supply and Warehouses Extended? https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/416
I'm guessing the answer is 'no' for question 2 since it has different choices of "mule" trading/hauling AI settings for player ships.
2) You can try using it, since it changes only player's ships. If it changes NPC too I'd say better to avoid it. The worst case scenario, if it has its own move scripts, is that your ships won't use the jumpdrive. 1) I have still not done such a map but consider that The Expanse is a totally different layout, not organized around sectors. Your traders could be going inside a single system (that is huge and has multiple planets and low orbit stations) for long. You can also stay there for long doing missions, exploration goes for various circles, system to system, only after you have discovered all portals (they are needed to jump + jump drive installed) you can quickly go to any part of the galaxy. Also, shipyards are a lot, you'll find in every system (system, not sector), equipment docks are also very common.
I just started a new game with your mod and the feelings are amazing ! The gameplay is totally different, I really feel like I'm in space.
But there is something ticking me, I started "Smuggler Paradise" and the PHQ (Terran Ring with a Yellow Glowing light in the center) is just there, next to Aurora Casino. But I can't access the Science Lab in it. I don't know if it's intended ?
Later, I re-started a new game with the Split FRF "Fires of Defeat" story and the PHQ isn't there. I think I'll stick with this start for now.
EDIT : Also, I've noticed that AI are really slow in disruption fields because they do not use momentum to travel (2000km at 450m/s takes forever for them, and Xenon or Combat ships just destroy all traders). Is it intended (even with REM HYPERDRIVE) ? I saw this in "Tkr: Split Fire". I really like the disruption system in Asteroid Field and such. And I'm not bothered to have the travel drive disabled in a whole sector (me was Player Pilot). But AI can't use momentum and are sooo slow. If intended, does this affect game balance between faction?
I've just took a mission to destroy laser towers, but with a Chimera 5x S Class Weapons ("fast" modifier), it takes me minutes to go down a single MKI tower. Is it intended that S Class weapons to so little damage ? Doing combat mission, even small/easy ones seems overwhelming in early game.
Also, I currently trying to success a "Find Ship" mission because combat mission area almost undoable with small ship. But the time is really short and the REM HYPERDRIVE isnt of use because it make me overshot every search area.
I also noticed some station icon are really small, so small that I can't even click on it because a fighter is patroling around. Does small stationicon mean something ?
Do you have some documentation (wiki site or some kind) to know how to play with XRSGE instead of the base game ? Because I'm having a hard time knowing the purpose of some things, like resource probe (???) are they of any use in XRSGE ? Since colored HEX are hidden, how do we find gas cloud ? If I want to build a refinery for my gas miner, to know where to put it.
Anyway, despite these details, your mod is really incredible, it totaly transform X4 (which is already a good game) into what I wanted Elite Dangerous to be when Braben was talking about it 12 years ago. Mod endorsed+ kudo!
Welcome and thanks for the feedback. Just a quick answer to some important topics: xrsge does not change anything related to ships except ai, so guns, turrets etc are not touched. That is done by REM Overhaul, which btw resolves the ai ships keep momentum when boosting. Indeed REM Overhaul + Hyperdrive are almost mandatory. :) Since latest updates, disrupt regions are limited to the small pockets of dense asteroids or gas, so no more vaste regions to cross at low speed. Only atmosphere of planets and sun coronas low orbits have the disrupt, together with shield drain and friction added. If you notice a large area (more than 500km) having this please report here, it could be some misplaced atmosphere or sun corona. Station icons are not smaller than vanilla, it is the sector that is huge :) Continue...
Thanks a lot for your answer. Indeed I've installed all required and "almost mandatory" mods, so I'll check up on the side of "REM - OVERHAUL" changes for ship speed and weapons damage, to see how it's supposed to work.
Indeed I've recorded an area where disruption is around 1500km radius in "Family Tkr VII: Split Fire" ((6, 8) in XRSGE v8.2.8) , between the sector center and the accelerator to "Family Tkr V: Family Pride" in this area, I've noticed AI are stuck to their max FA ON speed without BOOSTING to get momentum. I have reported this in your bug section :+1:
Good,I am playing the game but can not check every corner. When created the mod oc I could not test every single (huge) sector so some regions are placed on paper and calculation. Every single planet has two added regions, a low orbit and an high orbit atmosphere. Anyway there'd not be many misplaced left. Family Tkr 7 is the one with the gas giant right? In that case I must move the superhighways, they enter the atmosphere. About rem, guns and turrets are min 4x higher speed and/or range so if you can not hit the tower it probably means you are too close, but that is a vanilla thing I think. One more thing, colored hexes are NOT hidden. They show normally but only in sector center along a 2400km diameter. This is an hardcoded limitation we have to live with (vanilla sectors are so small you don't see it) but other far out regions can be mined by the player.
Of course, it's largely comprehensible that such a big and great mod can't be without any problems at first sight, especially if you're alone on it ! No need to apologize in any way ! Thank for your work !
Yes Family Tkr 7 is the one with the gas giant.
I tried to figure out why NPC do not use boost in that disruption zone by looking to your script, but I didnt find anything, I'm not familiar with X4 script modding :-D This has permitted me to see how much work you made in this mod, it's amazing, really, congrats !
Hi EucharionFirst, congratulations on the mod. It's spectacular. I wanted to ask you about the number of ships in the universe. You mentioned earlier that the number of ships is reduced due to the resulting drop in frame rate. Am I wrong? I wanted to give you my opinion based on my complete ignorance of programming :D Would it be possible to add an optional mod with a larger number of ships? That way, each player could test whether their PC is capable of handling this more comprehensive universe. I've tried the DEADAIRT mod, the quota manager, but it says there are no suitable ships in the universe... I don't know why.
Yes it is possible, xrsge 7 actually had more ships in jobs. I removed because fighting ships are increased and REM also adds many ships. I decided to start light and test. For instance I am seeing that the lack of S food traders starts to show in my game. I'd say that fighting ships are many, I'd like to add some more limited to zones, in the expanse a single zone can be big as a vanilla sector. You can try some small mod that adds vanilla ships, they will work. But I will add a "more ships" addon soon, thanks for reminding me..
So after a lot of trial and error. I'm still having the White hexagon issue with the map. I've done fresh install of X4, just the files for the mod and the fix but im still having the issue. I'm running this on 7.50 with all dlc's hoping you can shed some light on this issue since i really want to try out your mod.
Did you try to set UI PROTECTION OFF in the settings before using the fix? Also the fix must work because it removes the texture I use for the fog of war.. if using it please rename it to EXT_04, after 8.2.8 I added an ext_03 in xrsge
Hi! I installed Travel as no tomorrow mod. It is enabled but not working. Cruise does not work in zones. Could this be related to other mods like VRO? (In XRGE, I add "true" for the VRO mod and hyper works properly)
Have you installed version 1.0.1? I removed the disrupts even from regions so it must work. Also remember that some disrupts are activated by the autopilot if it "senses" asteroids nearby. But you can fly manually inside those asteroid fields. The difference after version 8.2.6 is very minimal, only very small and dense regions have disrupts in XRSGE, the mini-mod will only remove those remaining ones (not the disrupts of low atmosphere)
re. Jumpdrive - will be testing later. Now I have two more curious problems, I had them happen also with versions <8.0.8 as well...
First Mining (i am using expert mining). I give the order, the ship is doing its job. But after some time it changes on its own its location inside the order menue. Meaning I first give it the order to mine explicity in sector A. After some time it switches the destination inside the order to sector B, it does this on its own. Sometime it also changes the order itself to 'patrol'. Only way around was to create some blacklists (work and travel), so that those with the mining order only travel and work inside a sector. I never had this problem with vanilla.
Second, and more problematic: If I play with a lot of stations (module count ~2000) and ships (~800), all their movement, loadouts, wares and so on saved in the save.xml, same as the ai stations,ships. That's all done correctly. But as soon as I reach the 4GB size of an (unpacked!) save.xml I cannot load the savegame anymore! The loading falls back to the main menue screen. I first came across this problem around 8.0.2. Same now with >8.0.2. Doing some testing; I then cleand out a lot of scripts eg kuertes, who write log comments (all comments/logs are also saved inside the save.xml). Still problem persists. I can dump my stations and ships, but I doubt that this will help for long. It never happend with vanilla, and I used the exact same amount of ships and stations there. Tested also with the -nocompress option. After some more tests, I was able to get an 4GB save.xml, witch I coudn't load. After I went into the save.xml, I cleaned/deleted out 10.000 lines of logs (search for </economylog>, from there upwards you will find a lot of log lines for several types), saving - and vola I could load it again. The filesize then only reduced to 3.95gb - not so much. I think this may be a problem from egosoft? Do you have a idea therefor?
So this happened before the jumpdrive was used by npc? I removed all my scripts for trade/mining routine we had in XRSGE 7, so I can not guess what could cause it from my mod. If it was now, it could be the jumping range that allows the ship to find a more lucrative area at jumping distance. I tend to exclude any involvement of xrsge in such change of command, before the jump update of 8.2 ai scripts were very minimal. What I changed is how the engine "sees" sectors. Instead of considering the space made of sectors (vanilla) it considers the space made of zones. But this is only for move scripts and gate usage (had to change in order to use the superhighways as zone to zone connection, not sector to sector as in vanilla). About the bloated save, I guess the huge number of stations in xrsge could add? I don't know about saves, never explored how they are made, what is stored or not. I know that gate/zone etc position is stored, indeed changing them causes issues. I suppose that old saves can cause a lot of problems, like old records accumulating that are not deleted. I guess it, by seeing as the save does not clean superhighway's positions even after several saves. At start, saves are about the double of vanilla, which is to be expected given the number of regions (resources) that is 5x so not much, about 50mb compressed. I also reduce a lot the stored (in save) resources that are in center of sectors in xrsge 8. I suspect that script heavy mods can bloat the file a lot.
I've released the patch 8.2.3 With this patch: - video notifications are optional, you can thick the box in the command's interface. Default is silent. If you have a large fleet, notifications can be a spam
- added ship's name to the hud notifications - removed the bug of player jumping to ANY station (already in patch 8.2.2) ------------------------------------------------------- !!! PLEASE DELETE EXT_03 IF YOU HAVE IT IN YOUR MOD !!! -------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the answers. Well regarding mining, even with a new start without mods except xrsge, I get this mining behaviour. But as I said using blacklists helps to cage them in...
Regarding the boladed save files. Your assumption about the spaming of older values and from other scripts is also a part of this problem. Also, this will start to happen only after several real-life time hours of playing - around 12 in my case. Here some initial meassurements - still ongoing, bec. to test this it takes a long time: (All tests with nearly the same amount of starting stations [~2000 modules], ships [~700] - always the same composition and loadouts if possible.)
Savefile Bytes Stations Ships Pers.count Playtime (d.hh:mm) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- only xrgsr (+ rem hyperdrive, forker, stars) no other mods, no kuerte and ui mods, no ship mods... 001 784.544.232 - - 0 002 830.569.230 2749 9836 10 003 1.046.433.231 2857 11151 1:07 004 1.166.537.185 2911 11653 1:36 005 1.283.123.730 2927 11475 106.025 2:09 QS 1.281.095.849 2926 11214 106.025 2:22 QS 1.357.337.727 2932 11004 2:40
Older: (last one working) - kuertees, some ship mods, vro (no problem with it by now, changed all ships for jumpdrives, but tests are still not done for that...) 014 4.294.231.189 2748 11655
Vanilla: 006 1.625.891.411 2053 2365
Remember all stuff in the game is saved there, so if you have eg. a person it is one xml tag entrty. And most of those entries have an id whos changing with every save, these are also references to other save xml tags. Eg. a trader has an ref. to its person, where it is located, what are his wares [<- also one of those bload things - and not an ai mod!. If you use eg. paintjob wares, modparts, ...- all these are saved for every trader!]. This is a hell of a nested structure.
I am momentarily checking if I can reach it (the 4gb save file) also in vanilla map with a heavy modded game. As we know this may not be a play-style to do, rather than to avoid, but if it gets over the 4gb barrier and will not be loaded in a vanilla map as well - well then we know its a egosoft problem...
What I can say for now, that the save files react sluggish to changes to a modded game. If you kick out several mods (eg. tax, auto money transfer, trade notofications, trade analyses, fcow, da scripts and so on, most xml entries stay there, not really to be cleaned out. Even after a clean save procedure - deselect mod, restart, load + let some time be go (~5-10min), save again, reload. Now, in several cases the save file seems be 'smaller'. But thats not always the case. I tinkerd around mods with heavy logs and messages (changing them by myself to get the messages not shown/logged for example). Still the old stuff was there. Doesn't matter for a 'real' play, but to show that there is indeed a problem with lingering leftovers in the save files.
Save files are hard to get through bec. of their size. Available xml editors are not able to open them (the bigger xml's, not the small from a pure vanilla). As soon as you get over ~>1,5gb it gets problematic with the tagging, only plain text then works. Using notepad+ also works. You need a long approch to find and select what you want (using the line numbers and note them)... And forget to check if the save.xml is wellformed (all tags correct) when opening in a browser window or with an xml editor - if youi want to test your cpu and ssd, well,...go for it...
An approch to avoid this bloads would be easy - IF egosoft had thought about it. Eg. use several xml's for a save - one for all the logging/messages. One for the station/ships situations... and so forth. All in the gzip file.
Egosoft could indeed do as you say but also provide the function to EXPORT your save into a new custom start by keeping only player's assets, missions done, map explored etc and some basic faction stations/occupation of current map. A refresh that cleans up all other infos. This would really help a lor for such a gameplay you are ultra-testing. I never arrived at such level of game because modding drained all my time, in geral thou I tend to restart the game with my assets and missions etc after a while. I like the first stage of the game more in xrsge where exploration is tons better than in vanilla. I think that xrsge is not meant to be played as an empire management game but more as an Elite/Freelancer with added properties. It rewards exploration a lot. It was born indeed with this aim. Btw I found out that, for reasons I don't know, custom starts (instead of scenarios) provide a smoother gameplay and less bloated saves. I had a game with a Scion scenario that after some saves was unplayable..custom starts work well instead.
After some testing aroung with 8.2.4 and mining - still not working correctly.
I have 6 fleets with 11miners each for one substance (h2, fe, ice, ...), one (lead ship) has set the mining order, 10 ships are set to follow the leaders order. As second, several ships are also minng for stations. All miners work in one sector (scale plate I) Under 8.1.0 all was working as we know. Now with 8.2.4 its a complete mess in the wayfinding. All ships a moving aroung trying to 'fly and wait' as first order, then as second the mining order comes. I cannot cancel the first one, it will redo itself, and the ships flys around again. I now let it fly and as soon as it reaches its position, it starts the fly and wait order again. It never comes/gets into the mining order. I went to comm the ship and selected cancel all jumps - not doing anything, still the moving around and trying to find a way. With this its more or less not playable. At least an override option to switch back to the old (vanilla?) would be helpful - even at the price that the micromanagement of such larger fleets is then quite endourous.
Orders for move to a position/guard a station (patrol around the station) seems to work.
Last, I replaced 8.2.4 with 8.1.0 (downgrade), reloaded the save (saved under 8.2.4 with the mining orders still set) and the mining was working again as it should be.
Does it happen with fleets only or single miners too? Auto mine or single mine in zone? The problem of injecting jump command into a fleet is this. Patrol fleets should benefit, mining maybe not. What I can do: using the internal command of mining for player's ships too. Now as it is, the player has the added fly to (jump) while ai ships have integrated jump inside mining command. Or I could remove the jump for player's automining ships entirelly. Ai ships will jump to mine, player has to command it before. Or trying to rewrite the mining fleet scripts. So let me understand, what command create this: mimic? Follow? Internal order, the one used by ai, is simplified and does not repeat itself as the player's command does. Latter is done to allow multiple jumps for player's shipss, that is why it restarts again, the routine checks if there is a portal closee or instead flies to position. So we can try this solution as first, simplified order for mining ships of player. Btw if you want you can already do yourself, it is a single file: ship_mining_collect or something like that (am not at pc), in aiscripts. You can clearly see I noted the part for the player, that injects the MoveWait command, then there is the long scripts regulating non player's ships. You can delete the first do_if paragraph relative to the player. This will keep the jump for ai scripts while player's ones will need a command before. That's it. To add the long (simpler jump) scripts for player ships too, you have to delete the condition I set at beginning that only not player owned can use it.
As asked - for both. Using 6 fleets who are mining (expert mining command for the fleet leader and mimic for the following ships) and ~10 miners for a station under station command 'mine for station'. As said, no problems seen so far with sector patrol, position patrol and other vanilla orders.
Also (still testing) no problems with mods protect sector, response fleet, sector patrol. Not tested with mod roaming fleet and others...
Not tested: Trade and distribution mods; Eg. mod Mules support and warehouse (from git repo, its newer), These are using fly-to commands when doing their jobs. I did not test them yet.
AddOn: ...and thanks for the info where to find it in the scripts... Did as you said i your post regarding 'order.fight.protect.ship.xml'. Here I commented out the advised '<do_if value="this.isplayerowned and (this.assignedcontrolled.software.installed ...' parts. For others - there are two of this <do if...> in the script. After doing so, my mining ships (fleets with mimic and miner under station control) now working again. I saw the miners docking, unloading and then mining as normal.
A minor point - still a lot of messenges about jumps, from AI and player owned ships. It comes from your part: <do_if value="$shownotification==1 or this.assignedcontrolled == player.occupiedship"> <run_script name="'player.interaction'"> ... </run_script> <show_notification timeout="5s" priority="100" text="this.assignedcontrolled.knownname + ' Ship preparing to jump..'" /><!--hud notification, not screen--> </do_if> This fires when it is an NPC controlled ship OR an Player owned. Changing it as you did this later in the script again, prevents the message overflow...
Would you please test the trading fleet too? With the same orders? I must say I had doubts about mining commands using jump as idea per se. I don't like the all ships do anything mount any equipment that is X4. So jumpdrive could be the occasion to differentiate. For instance having a fleet of traders that can jump to sell mining products far away, where mining ships can not arrive. It'd make sense that not all ships can jump. But for how the game is structured as soon as you change the all do all a lot of problems happen. For combat fleet I did not remove the jump for S ships nor the travel hyperdrive (in REM) but that would add a lot more strategy.
Edit: second part of your post, so removing the part regarding player's ship will solve as expected but I think ships will jump anyway because jumping is injected in the dock command. I suppose that for trading ships, the script is even redundant, they simply dock at a station after another. While mining ship have a normal move routine to go mining that is not injected with jump scripts. You thou removed the script in the protect ship order which is used by escort ships (?). Did you notice a change in escort ships for fighting? About the msg, Ziplock in the ego forum reported a strange thing of them spamming by non player's ships too. And being even added to the log. None of this is written in the script you commented out. What kind of msg do you get and during what commands? In my test msg are not spammed, all works as expected. I don't understand what you mean with "changing it as you did"..
Edit: latest patch resolves any spam message. I've also tested that indeed autotrade does not need jumping scripts, they are already in the dock at script. Btw I decided to integrate the jump scripts in: dock at, follow, fly to object, not only fly to (space). They were not for the player who had an added fly to command before, instead. Now all these 4 basic commands have the jump inside and the optional notifications. I left the jump scripts in mining routines, but unified ai and player's ships, no fly to added there either.
Just a small note in case you need an editor for large text files: https://www.emeditor.com/text-editor-features/history/emeditor-free/ I've been using EmEditor free version for save files. I use mostly for find/replace and it handles them fine.
I have found the cause of bloated save files: it is the disrupt regions. When any ship enters one of these no-travel area, the record is added to the save if you save when that happens. It doubles the size of the save files. This does not add any lag (as instead Damage Zones do if you use them extensively), still it is recorded in the save and increases it. I've removed all no-travel areas except from planet's and moon's orbits. Because they are highly needed and because no ship flies there actually, so no record in the save. Uploading mod version 8.2.6 See the sticky post about the update and how to clean the save, if needed.
Well... you where faster regarding the save files... :-) Came to the same conclusion...
After some time and days I tested/played with the jump drives...
First - working, still some curiosities. To mention, I am also using VRO, whitch means I also setup the dependencies in my mods through the content.xml's. I also changed every ships (from vro and other ship mods, like XR, sapphire, ...) macro to implement the jump drive. This also works.
Now to the curiosities. I played with 8.2.1 - then updated to 8.2.5. (will check out 8.2.6) - After I updated to 8.2.5 ships jumped, as long as they are NOT in a zone with travel restrictions. (I like that, makes sense) The I found some mining ships ('expert mining' and 'mining for a station') ships standing in a vertical way in front of docking bays. They had an order 'move to/jump' and then sell ware, but they did not dock. They where stuck. I then deleted only the move to order. The ships the calculated new and flew to the station. Afterwards every ship is now working correctly again. Never occured again. Seems only after the update and while some ships where in between docking and selling.
- In your script 'order.mining.collect.ship.xml' I think you forgot to comment out the second occurence of '<do_if value="this.isplayerowned and (this.assignedcontrolled.software.installed.{ware.xrsge_software_jump_s}.exists or this.assignedcontrolled.software.installed.{ware.xrsge_software_jump_l}.exists or this.assignedcontrolled.software.installed.{ware.xrsge_software_jump_xl}.exists)">...'
- Sector RS222: <connection name="Zone003_Cluster_RS207_Sector001_connection" ref="zones"> <!-- Gate to RS222 --> <offset> <!-- <position x="0" y="0" z="-103010000" /> --> <position x="0" y="0" z="-132010000" /> <- changed ... When your original setting - z="-103010000" is in use, ships who want to travel there getting stuck. They trying to fly back and are then stuck in the highway. I changed the gate location to be ~1600km more down. This solved it. I didn't find other sectors with such problems by now.
Save file sizes over 4GB, here some regex to clean them out via notepad+ as I did to play again: Search for <influences> - count them, should be in the millions! Replace (w. RegEx AND checked \r\n option) <influences>.+?</influences>\n -> Replace with empty.
@dexty101 - thx regarding EmEditor- will give it a try. Maybe also good for work, there we also use lage svg's with (in rare occurences) large entries...
While the problems with the bload save xml seems gone, this also lead to changes in the zones - as writen in the 8.2.6 notes above. With this changes also several mining/ressource fields are now gone as well. While the miners are still trying to mine, they will not find ressources. E.g. scale plate green 1 (xenon sec.) - before we had all minerals and gases there, now only a part (H2, CH4, Ice) remains. This sector also had (in 8.2.5) travel restrictions and damage zones. The problem with the ressources is the save itself, the ressources are writen inside the save as well, now the mining ships are flying in regards to this - and are finding nothing. Only way is to redirect/change the miner settings and try, or a new game.
Holy cow well this last is my fault then...in the process or redoing regions for removing disrupts and hazards or leaving them in the small very dense regions, I also resized many resource regions with the aim to make the save files even leaner. A kind of rebalance too because xrsge having so many regions, a lot of gas and ringed giants, is somehow too plentiful that every faction enjoys peace and abundance :D ..I did not think that save file keeps the mapping of resources...well it should resolve with several saves..I hope. I too have a game going on that I don't want to restart...
HI Eucharion, I'm also experiecing a problem with mining in version 8.2.6. I started a new custom start with a few miners in different sectors for testing. When i'm in sector with the ships mining behaves as expected, and also when live streaming an out of sector ship. But when the ships are out of sector they create a "Fly and wait *jump" as soon as they arrive at that location they put another Fly and wait command before the mining command and fly somewhere else. They never actually get to the mining command. I tested with Local, Advanced and Expert automine and with a direct order to mine, all with the same result. Only running your mods: Expanse stars smoke in the cabin X realspace colors of the prism REM X realspace engine mods REM slipstream high travel speeds and instant stop.
Ok thanks that's useful, if happens with a new game then regions are not a problem but the new jump orders injected in the mining. So you observed that in high attention they work fine, this is also useful because routine mining order is split into two separated scripts, one in low one in high attention. Will look next days, am not at the pc for 3 days. Thinking about removing the jump completely for mining ships maybe..
FIXED player's miners not mining in low attention because stuck at fly to order...a leftover of the old code I had not seen, indeed in the low attention only. Download XRSGE version 8.2.8 (uploading..)
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JumpAll the ai npc ships use the jumpdrive if installed and use the portals as arriving point. To avoid conflicts, lags and general slowdowns that happen when you add the jumping function inside the general move scripts, I edited the main commands. So ship will jump when one of these orders is given (by player or by ai) or with some internal orders:
- dock to ..
- fly to position or fly to object (station, ship)
- follow..
- various patrol commands, both as default or as direct order (defend)
- various attack orders, attack single ship or in range
- both default routine for trading and mining (these requiring the expert level to jump to several sectors anyway)
- many other internal orders such as the defend leader ship or seek for enemies
I've done two kinds of coding for each file: one for player's subordinates, one for ai npc ships.
While ai orders are melted within the single order, for the player I made the jump part be a separated order that is added before the specific command, so if you e.g. command a ship to dock to a station, two orders will be executed, the first one is a fly to (with jump). This has changed a bit in latest updates
I've added a small chance that the jumping fails and you end jumping to an anomaly instead of a portal (which is a structure that surrounds an anomaly indeed), the chance is minuscule for npc ai while is a bit more for any ship where the player is on board.
I've also worked on a routines, i.e. the ship will make multiple jumps if the target is very far, using all the portals it meets along the path. After each jump there is a cooldown phase that is shown by various effects and messages in the cabin, if player is on board, or external effects if not.
Some orders have simplified routines, for instance the trade/mine routine have a single jump only (no repeat) because these commonly have a range of max 9, so no need to overdo. Of course if you want a ship to go beyond that you can command it to fly, it will perform multiple jumps up to destination (if a portal is closer than destination).
All ships having a jump drive can jump TO a portal, but player and subordinates can also perform FREE jumps FROM a portal.
A little bonus for the player that should not be too cheaty but allows to speed up things. When close to a portal (within 8km) you can activate the special commands (already in previous XRSGE). Start guidance using the map, when map closes the jump menu will appear.
New is instead the jumping suite of commands that you can use for your subordinates, by calling them:
This allows to speed thing up because subordinates will use the portal as STARTING point to reach you:
- will jump and follow (but not join squad)
- will jump and join
- will perform an EMERGENCY jump! (very useful..)
- will jump to you as fast as possible
- last order is disabled for now
The idea behind the emergency jump is of course that with the jump drive the ship needs a portal to focus a long jump but can make an unfocused very short one to escape. It will indeed jump to a few kms and will do only if the player commands it. This emergency jump will totally drain ship's shields...so be careful.
I wrote the suite before working on the many ai scripts, so some of these are a bit redundant (if you command any ship to follow, it will jump to a portal first if shorter, anyway). But these special commands allow the ships to perform FREE jumps, i.e. to points in space where the player is, so combining the two (first jump to a portal then command to jump to you, you can reunite your followers in short time (with 2 commands). Hopefully not too cheaty..
I've also injected in many commands, and in the general moving command either, the function TRAVEL to END that should make the ships more reactive in using the travel drive up to destination. This latter is to be tested, but in conjunction with jumping that is used so often the travels will be shorter for sure.
With this patch:
- video notifications are optional, you can thick the box in the command's interface. Default is silent. If you have a large fleet, notifications can be a spam
- added ship's name to the hud notifications
- removed the bug of player jumping to ANY station (already in patch 8.2.2)
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!!! PLEASE DELETE EXT_03 IF YOU HAVE IT IN YOUR MOD !!!
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With this patch:
- hud notifications (texts) are also optional (as video comm), by default they are silent, you can activate them clicking to expand and inside the order Fly to - Jump
- added compatibility with Hyperion (delete the compatibility-patch if you added it)
- many small fixes
- removed ALL BIG DISRUPT ZONES (let alone those around planets and moons, sun coronas and gas/roids pockets, debris fields)
Reason of change?
The disrupt zones are recorded in the save file when a ship enters them so the save file ends being bloated. It causes NO LAG, only a big save file..
The alert for player remains so as the disrupt for AUTOPILOT when close to stations or asteroid or to mine fields, for player only. If you fly without autopilot you can travel inside asteroids as a good pilot. Your pilots do it too.
I will re-add some small no travel zones in strategic places. These were nice also to make ambush to ships to board...
NO MORE NEED OF THE "Travel as No tomorrow" mini-mod.
How to update an old save?
It should happen automatically but if you want to mess with the save to remove the leftover of the disrupt zones, do this:
1) backup your save file
2) extract it and open it
3) delete every <influences> and every </influences> (be aware, influenceS..with S final). This can be automated, so just a few clicks
4) save file and zip it again in the correct forma gzip
5) in game, of course after loading the modified save, save it again and see if the size has reduced (it should significantly)
Or you can simply check the new save after the update, it the file has reduced then the above procedure is not necessary
I found another superhighway that makes this strange thing, in Great Profit IV, the north-west superhighway. It had overlapping entrances but also after fixing them the ships got stuck, the only way to solve it was removing it and moving the gate closer to the others. I'll do the same for Black Hole Sun superhighway.
I don't see any other superhighway making this glitch but please take a look in some advanced game of yours...I don't mean a couple of ships stuck or the patrol ships awaiting at entrances, they could take long time close to a gate, I mean something biblical as in the picture above
I found the cause for black hole sun glitch, but not for Great Profit one. I decided to remove the NE superhighway in B.H.Sun anyway, it brings no real strategic or cosmetic change on map. Please keep an eye on any other entrance where the glitch could happen...checking all superhighway's entrances is beyond my two eyes only
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Download the PATCH for The Expanse v.8.2.7
- small various fixes
- removed a superhighway in B.Hole Sun and one in Greater Profit (gate moved accordingly)
Ships could take long before returning to their course, I think the AI must reset.
If you want to speed up things, you can use the cheat mod, selecting the ship/change ownership (set faction) then by targeting one by one each stuck ship you can re-assign the race to each, identical as it is. This will make the ship restart the commands and AI.
ALL REPACKED, so delete mod's folder first
FIXED PARANID PLOT
There are many small fixes. Subordinate ships following a leader with attack command will not have a fly_to (jump) anymore, only the leader will have. They remained waiting at the destination sector, so had to change it.
If you started the Paranid plot, it is enough if you load a save one step before you go scanning the monument with space suite
Please update also STARS (patch provided, very light) and REM Hyperdrive (for better behavior of big ships at gates)
I DON'T LIKE THE TRAVEL LIMITATIONS IN ASTEROID FIELDS ETC.
I made small mod to remove them; for a piece of cake experience in The Expanse.
SINCE VERSION 8.2.6 TRAVEL DISRUPT IS LIMITED TO PLANET'S LOW ORBITS, GAS POCKET, DEBRIS AND SMALL DENSE ASTEROID POCKETS. NO NEED OF THE MINI MOD TO REMOVE THEMDownload in the optional files.
Install it as another mod...
ADDING JUMP DRIVE TO CUSTOM SHIPS BY OTHR MODS ?
Other ships mods can not work out of the box, but adding the software is very easy and everyone can do it in new ship mod's folder after extracting it and removing the cat file.
Add the following to XL ships in the <software> ... </software> space
<software ware="xrsge_software_jump_xl" compatible="1" />
Add the following to L ships in the <software> ... </software> space<software ware="xrsge_software_jump_l" compatible="1" />And the same to S/M ships with:<software ware="xrsge_software_jump_s" compatible="1" />
CAN IT BE USED WITH VRO ?
Yes, but use REM Hyperdrive and set dependency of Hyperdrive from VRO as optional, see in the mod's discussion.
If VRO does not add new ships, you still need to make XRSGE load after VRO or the jumpdrive won't be available and probably a lot of AI issues will occur. So set also dependency of XRSGE from VRO, as optional of course.
Adding this to XRSGE's content.xml should suffice (I will add too in next update):
<dependency id="ws_1696862840" optional="true" name="VRO"/>
Always check that the ID is correct in latest version of the mod you use.As general rule, XRSGE is an overhaul that has to touch any aspect of the game, so making it load AFTER any mod you use is a good idea to avoid bad conflicts. My mods are internally related with dependency, so do not need any change XRSGE-->REM Overhaul-->REM Hyperdrive and the various smaller ones.
Other mods that could potentially conflict must ALWAYS have the dependency (optional="true") in XRSGE to be sure that XRSGE is loaded AFTER.
to the stuck gate and stops there. I havent tested without other mods yet, but wanted to see if this was known, with a solution before going there...
EDIT: Resolved: This issue is due to Kuda AI Tweaks.
If you want to do it anyway, please add the DEPENDENCY in XRSGE (See above sticky)
I thought it was maby loading order error or somthing.
can i fix that issiue with teleporting out of the seat?.
PS: havent unlocked the Teleport research now, thats why i ask
Becaus of the feature of changing faction relation with money
Even if you sunk a lot of time in this Special project, i realy hope you have some joy with it.
I needed my time, but now i also enjoy it.
1) Do you plan to produce a map like X4 True Map for this that shows sector resource levels and locations of highways and stations like shipyards, wharfs, equipment docks, and trading stations? see https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/1671
2) Will this work with Mules Supply and Warehouses Extended? https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/416
I'm guessing the answer is 'no' for question 2 since it has different choices of "mule" trading/hauling AI settings for player ships.
1) I have still not done such a map but consider that The Expanse is a totally different layout, not organized around sectors. Your traders could be going inside a single system (that is huge and has multiple planets and low orbit stations) for long. You can also stay there for long doing missions, exploration goes for various circles, system to system, only after you have discovered all portals (they are needed to jump + jump drive installed) you can quickly go to any part of the galaxy. Also, shipyards are a lot, you'll find in every system (system, not sector), equipment docks are also very common.
Hi,
I just started a new game with your mod and the feelings are amazing ! The gameplay is totally different, I really feel like I'm in space.
But there is something ticking me, I started "Smuggler Paradise" and the PHQ (Terran Ring with a Yellow Glowing light in the center) is just there, next to Aurora Casino. But I can't access the Science Lab in it. I don't know if it's intended ?
Later, I re-started a new game with the Split FRF "Fires of Defeat" story and the PHQ isn't there. I think I'll stick with this start for now.
EDIT : Also, I've noticed that AI are really slow in disruption fields because they do not use momentum to travel (2000km at 450m/s takes forever for them, and Xenon or Combat ships just destroy all traders). Is it intended (even with REM HYPERDRIVE) ? I saw this in "Tkr: Split Fire". I really like the disruption system in Asteroid Field and such. And I'm not bothered to have the travel drive disabled in a whole sector (me was Player Pilot). But AI can't use momentum and are sooo slow. If intended, does this affect game balance between faction?
I don't have any AI mods (like it's heavily recommended in your mod description), but I have mod like Head Hunters, Waypoint fields for deployments or More generic missions (last 2 are from kuertee EDIT: I just saw your article about emergent mission). Does these interfere in some way with your mod to prevent NPC to use Momentum in disruption field ?
I've just took a mission to destroy laser towers, but with a Chimera 5x S Class Weapons ("fast" modifier), it takes me minutes to go down a single MKI tower. Is it intended that S Class weapons to so little damage ? Doing combat mission, even small/easy ones seems overwhelming in early game.
Also, I currently trying to success a "Find Ship" mission because combat mission area almost undoable with small ship. But the time is really short and the REM HYPERDRIVE isnt of use because it make me overshot every search area.
I also noticed some station icon are really small, so small that I can't even click on it because a fighter is patroling around. Does small stationicon mean something ?
Do you have some documentation (wiki site or some kind) to know how to play with XRSGE instead of the base game ? Because I'm having a hard time knowing the purpose of some things, like resource probe (???) are they of any use in XRSGE ? Since colored HEX are hidden, how do we find gas cloud ? If I want to build a refinery for my gas miner, to know where to put it.
Anyway, despite these details, your mod is really incredible, it totaly transform X4 (which is already a good game) into what I wanted Elite Dangerous to be when Braben was talking about it 12 years ago. Mod endorsed+ kudo!
Just a quick answer to some important topics: xrsge does not change anything related to ships except ai, so guns, turrets etc are not touched.
That is done by REM Overhaul, which btw resolves the ai ships keep momentum when boosting. Indeed REM Overhaul + Hyperdrive are almost mandatory. :)
Since latest updates, disrupt regions are limited to the small pockets of dense asteroids or gas, so no more vaste regions to cross at low speed. Only atmosphere of planets and sun coronas low orbits have the disrupt, together with shield drain and friction added. If you notice a large area (more than 500km) having this please report here, it could be some misplaced atmosphere or sun corona.
Station icons are not smaller than vanilla, it is the sector that is huge :)
Continue...
Indeed I've recorded an area where disruption is around 1500km radius in "Family Tkr VII: Split Fire" ((6, 8) in XRSGE v8.2.8) , between the sector center and the accelerator to "Family Tkr V: Family Pride" in this area, I've noticed AI are stuck to their max FA ON speed without BOOSTING to get momentum. I have reported this in your bug section :+1:
One more thing, colored hexes are NOT hidden. They show normally but only in sector center along a 2400km diameter. This is an hardcoded limitation we have to live with (vanilla sectors are so small you don't see it) but other far out regions can be mined by the player.
Yes Family Tkr 7 is the one with the gas giant.
I tried to figure out why NPC do not use boost in that disruption zone by looking to your script, but I didnt find anything, I'm not familiar with X4 script modding :-D This has permitted me to see how much work you made in this mod, it's amazing, really, congrats !
I wanted to ask you about the number of ships in the universe. You mentioned earlier that the number of ships is reduced due to the resulting drop in frame rate. Am I wrong?
I wanted to give you my opinion based on my complete ignorance of programming :D
Would it be possible to add an optional mod with a larger number of ships? That way, each player could test whether their PC is capable of handling this more comprehensive universe.
I've tried the DEADAIRT mod, the quota manager, but it says there are no suitable ships in the universe... I don't know why.
Thank you very much! Great work!
I decided to start light and test. For instance I am seeing that the lack of S food traders starts to show in my game.
I'd say that fighting ships are many, I'd like to add some more limited to zones, in the expanse a single zone can be big as a vanilla sector.
You can try some small mod that adds vanilla ships, they will work.
But I will add a "more ships" addon soon, thanks for reminding me..
Also the fix must work because it removes the texture I use for the fog of war..
if using it please rename it to EXT_04, after 8.2.8 I added an ext_03 in xrsge
Also remember that some disrupts are activated by the autopilot if it "senses" asteroids nearby. But you can fly manually inside those asteroid fields.
The difference after version 8.2.6 is very minimal, only very small and dense regions have disrupts in XRSGE, the mini-mod will only remove those remaining ones (not the disrupts of low atmosphere)
re. Jumpdrive - will be testing later.
Now I have two more curious problems, I had them happen also with versions <8.0.8 as well...
First Mining (i am using expert mining).
I give the order, the ship is doing its job. But after some time it changes on its own its location inside the order menue. Meaning I first give it the order to mine explicity in sector A. After some time it switches the destination inside the order to sector B, it does this on its own. Sometime it also changes the order itself to 'patrol'. Only way around was to create some blacklists (work and travel), so that those with the mining order only travel and work inside a sector. I never had this problem with vanilla.
Second, and more problematic:
If I play with a lot of stations (module count ~2000) and ships (~800), all their movement, loadouts, wares and so on saved in the save.xml, same as the ai stations,ships. That's all done correctly. But as soon as I reach the 4GB size of an (unpacked!) save.xml I cannot load the savegame anymore! The loading falls back to the main menue screen.
I first came across this problem around 8.0.2. Same now with >8.0.2. Doing some testing; I then cleand out a lot of scripts eg kuertes, who write log comments (all comments/logs are also saved inside the save.xml). Still problem persists. I can dump my stations and ships, but I doubt that this will help for long. It never happend with vanilla, and I used the exact same amount of ships and stations there. Tested also with the -nocompress option.
After some more tests, I was able to get an 4GB save.xml, witch I coudn't load. After I went into the save.xml, I cleaned/deleted out 10.000 lines of logs (search for </economylog>, from there upwards you will find a lot of log lines for several types), saving - and vola I could load it again. The filesize then only reduced to 3.95gb - not so much.
I think this may be a problem from egosoft? Do you have a idea therefor?
I tend to exclude any involvement of xrsge in such change of command, before the jump update of 8.2 ai scripts were very minimal.
What I changed is how the engine "sees" sectors. Instead of considering the space made of sectors (vanilla) it considers the space made of zones. But this is only for move scripts and gate usage (had to change in order to use the superhighways as zone to zone connection, not sector to sector as in vanilla).
About the bloated save, I guess the huge number of stations in xrsge could add? I don't know about saves, never explored how they are made, what is stored or not. I know that gate/zone etc position is stored, indeed changing them causes issues.
I suppose that old saves can cause a lot of problems, like old records accumulating that are not deleted. I guess it, by seeing as the save does not clean superhighway's positions even after several saves.
At start, saves are about the double of vanilla, which is to be expected given the number of regions (resources) that is 5x so not much, about 50mb compressed. I also reduce a lot the stored (in save) resources that are in center of sectors in xrsge 8.
I suspect that script heavy mods can bloat the file a lot.
With this patch:
- video notifications are optional, you can thick the box in the command's interface. Default is silent. If you have a large fleet, notifications can be a spam
- added ship's name to the hud notifications
- removed the bug of player jumping to ANY station (already in patch 8.2.2)
-------------------------------------------------------
!!! PLEASE DELETE EXT_03 IF YOU HAVE IT IN YOUR MOD !!!
-------------------------------------------------------
Regarding the boladed save files.
Your assumption about the spaming of older values and from other scripts is also a part of this problem. Also, this will start to happen only after several real-life time hours of playing - around 12 in my case. Here some initial meassurements - still ongoing, bec. to test this it takes a long time:
(All tests with nearly the same amount of starting stations [~2000 modules], ships [~700] - always the same composition and loadouts if possible.)
Savefile Bytes Stations Ships Pers.count Playtime (d.hh:mm)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
only xrgsr (+ rem hyperdrive, forker, stars) no other mods, no kuerte and ui mods, no ship mods...
001 784.544.232 - - 0
002 830.569.230 2749 9836 10
003 1.046.433.231 2857 11151 1:07
004 1.166.537.185 2911 11653 1:36
005 1.283.123.730 2927 11475 106.025 2:09
QS 1.281.095.849 2926 11214 106.025 2:22
QS 1.357.337.727 2932 11004 2:40
Older: (last one working) - kuertees, some ship mods, vro (no problem with it by now, changed all ships for jumpdrives, but tests are still not done for that...)
014 4.294.231.189 2748 11655
Vanilla:
006 1.625.891.411 2053 2365
Remember all stuff in the game is saved there, so if you have eg. a person it is one xml tag entrty. And most of those entries have an id whos changing with every save, these are also references to other save xml tags. Eg. a trader has an ref. to its person, where it is located, what are his wares [<- also one of those bload things - and not an ai mod!. If you use eg. paintjob wares, modparts, ...- all these are saved for every trader!]. This is a hell of a nested structure.
I am momentarily checking if I can reach it (the 4gb save file) also in vanilla map with a heavy modded game. As we know this may not be a play-style to do, rather than to avoid, but if it gets over the 4gb barrier and will not be loaded in a vanilla map as well - well then we know its a egosoft problem...
What I can say for now, that the save files react sluggish to changes to a modded game. If you kick out several mods (eg. tax, auto money transfer, trade notofications, trade analyses, fcow, da scripts and so on, most xml entries stay there, not really to be cleaned out. Even after a clean save procedure - deselect mod, restart, load + let some time be go (~5-10min), save again, reload. Now, in several cases the save file seems be 'smaller'. But thats not always the case. I tinkerd around mods with heavy logs and messages (changing them by myself to get the messages not shown/logged for example). Still the old stuff was there. Doesn't matter for a 'real' play, but to show that there is indeed a problem with lingering leftovers in the save files.
Save files are hard to get through bec. of their size. Available xml editors are not able to open them (the bigger xml's, not the small from a pure vanilla). As soon as you get over ~>1,5gb it gets problematic with the tagging, only plain text then works. Using notepad+ also works. You need a long approch to find and select what you want (using the line numbers and note them)...
And forget to check if the save.xml is wellformed (all tags correct) when opening in a browser window or with an xml editor - if youi want to test your cpu and ssd, well,...go for it...
An approch to avoid this bloads would be easy - IF egosoft had thought about it. Eg. use several xml's for a save - one for all the logging/messages. One for the station/ships situations... and so forth. All in the gzip file.
I never arrived at such level of game because modding drained all my time, in geral thou I tend to restart the game with my assets and missions etc after a while. I like the first stage of the game more in xrsge where exploration is tons better than in vanilla. I think that xrsge is not meant to be played as an empire management game but more as an Elite/Freelancer with added properties. It rewards exploration a lot. It was born indeed with this aim.
Btw I found out that, for reasons I don't know, custom starts (instead of scenarios) provide a smoother gameplay and less bloated saves.
I had a game with a Scion scenario that after some saves was unplayable..custom starts work well instead.
I have 6 fleets with 11miners each for one substance (h2, fe, ice, ...), one (lead ship) has set the mining order, 10 ships are set to follow the leaders order. As second, several ships are also minng for stations. All miners work in one sector (scale plate I)
Under 8.1.0 all was working as we know. Now with 8.2.4 its a complete mess in the wayfinding. All ships a moving aroung trying to 'fly and wait' as first order, then as second the mining order comes. I cannot cancel the first one, it will redo itself, and the ships flys around again. I now let it fly and as soon as it reaches its position, it starts the fly and wait order again. It never comes/gets into the mining order. I went to comm the ship and selected cancel all jumps - not doing anything, still the moving around and trying to find a way. With this its more or less not playable.
At least an override option to switch back to the old (vanilla?) would be helpful - even at the price that the micromanagement of such larger fleets is then quite endourous.
Orders for move to a position/guard a station (patrol around the station) seems to work.
Last, I replaced 8.2.4 with 8.1.0 (downgrade), reloaded the save (saved under 8.2.4 with the mining orders still set) and the mining was working again as it should be.
What I can do: using the internal command of mining for player's ships too. Now as it is, the player has the added fly to (jump) while ai ships have integrated jump inside mining command. Or I could remove the jump for player's automining ships entirelly. Ai ships will jump to mine, player has to command it before. Or trying to rewrite the mining fleet scripts. So let me understand, what command create this: mimic? Follow?
Internal order, the one used by ai, is simplified and does not repeat itself as the player's command does. Latter is done to allow multiple jumps for player's shipss, that is why it restarts again, the routine checks if there is a portal closee or instead flies to position. So we can try this solution as first, simplified order for mining ships of player.
Btw if you want you can already do yourself, it is a single file: ship_mining_collect or something like that (am not at pc), in aiscripts. You can clearly see I noted the part for the player, that injects the MoveWait command, then there is the long scripts regulating non player's ships. You can delete the first do_if paragraph relative to the player. This will keep the jump for ai scripts while player's ones will need a command before. That's it. To add the long (simpler jump) scripts for player ships too, you have to delete the condition I set at beginning that only not player owned can use it.
Using 6 fleets who are mining (expert mining command for the fleet leader and mimic for the following ships) and ~10 miners for a station under station command 'mine for station'. As said, no problems seen so far with sector patrol, position patrol and other vanilla orders.
Also (still testing) no problems with mods protect sector, response fleet, sector patrol. Not tested with mod roaming fleet and others...
Not tested: Trade and distribution mods; Eg. mod Mules support and warehouse (from git repo, its newer), These are using fly-to commands when doing their jobs. I did not test them yet.
AddOn: ...and thanks for the info where to find it in the scripts...
Did as you said i your post regarding 'order.fight.protect.ship.xml'. Here I commented out the advised '<do_if value="this.isplayerowned and (this.assignedcontrolled.software.installed ...' parts. For others - there are two of this <do if...> in the script.
After doing so, my mining ships (fleets with mimic and miner under station control) now working again. I saw the miners docking, unloading and then mining as normal.
A minor point - still a lot of messenges about jumps, from AI and player owned ships. It comes from your part:
<do_if value="$shownotification==1 or this.assignedcontrolled == player.occupiedship">
<run_script name="'player.interaction'">
... </run_script>
<show_notification timeout="5s" priority="100" text="this.assignedcontrolled.knownname + ' Ship preparing to jump..'" /><!--hud notification, not screen-->
</do_if>
This fires when it is an NPC controlled ship OR an Player owned.
Changing it as you did this later in the script again, prevents the message overflow...
I must say I had doubts about mining commands using jump as idea per se. I don't like the all ships do anything mount any equipment that is X4. So jumpdrive could be the occasion to differentiate. For instance having a fleet of traders that can jump to sell mining products far away, where mining ships can not arrive. It'd make sense that not all ships can jump. But for how the game is structured as soon as you change the all do all a lot of problems happen. For combat fleet I did not remove the jump for S ships nor the travel hyperdrive (in REM) but that would add a lot more strategy.
Edit: second part of your post, so removing the part regarding player's ship will solve as expected but I think ships will jump anyway because jumping is injected in the dock command. I suppose that for trading ships, the script is even redundant, they simply dock at a station after another. While mining ship have a normal move routine to go mining that is not injected with jump scripts.
You thou removed the script in the protect ship order which is used by escort ships (?). Did you notice a change in escort ships for fighting?
About the msg, Ziplock in the ego forum reported a strange thing of them spamming by non player's ships too. And being even added to the log. None of this is written in the script you commented out. What kind of msg do you get and during what commands? In my test msg are not spammed, all works as expected. I don't understand what you mean with "changing it as you did"..
Edit: latest patch resolves any spam message. I've also tested that indeed autotrade does not need jumping scripts, they are already in the dock at script.
Btw I decided to integrate the jump scripts in: dock at, follow, fly to object, not only fly to (space). They were not for the player who had an added fly to command before, instead. Now all these 4 basic commands have the jump inside and the optional notifications.
I left the jump scripts in mining routines, but unified ai and player's ships, no fly to added there either.
Just a small note in case you need an editor for large text files: https://www.emeditor.com/text-editor-features/history/emeditor-free/
I've been using EmEditor free version for save files. I use mostly for find/replace and it handles them fine.
I've removed all no-travel areas except from planet's and moon's orbits. Because they are highly needed and because no ship flies there actually, so no record in the save. Uploading mod version 8.2.6
See the sticky post about the update and how to clean the save, if needed.
After some time and days I tested/played with the jump drives...
First - working, still some curiosities. To mention, I am also using VRO, whitch means I also setup the dependencies in my mods through the content.xml's. I also changed every ships (from vro and other ship mods, like XR, sapphire, ...) macro to implement the jump drive. This also works.
Now to the curiosities. I played with 8.2.1 - then updated to 8.2.5. (will check out 8.2.6)
- After I updated to 8.2.5 ships jumped, as long as they are NOT in a zone with travel restrictions. (I like that, makes sense)
The I found some mining ships ('expert mining' and 'mining for a station') ships standing in a vertical way in front of docking bays. They had an order 'move to/jump' and then sell ware, but they did not dock. They where stuck. I then deleted only the move to order. The ships the calculated new and flew to the station. Afterwards every ship is now working correctly again. Never occured again. Seems only after the update and while some ships where in between docking and selling.
- In your script 'order.mining.collect.ship.xml' I think you forgot to comment out the second occurence of '<do_if value="this.isplayerowned and (this.assignedcontrolled.software.installed.{ware.xrsge_software_jump_s}.exists or this.assignedcontrolled.software.installed.{ware.xrsge_software_jump_l}.exists or this.assignedcontrolled.software.installed.{ware.xrsge_software_jump_xl}.exists)">...'
- Sector RS222:
<connection name="Zone003_Cluster_RS207_Sector001_connection" ref="zones"> <!-- Gate to RS222 -->
<offset>
<!-- <position x="0" y="0" z="-103010000" /> -->
<position x="0" y="0" z="-132010000" /> <- changed
...
When your original setting - z="-103010000" is in use, ships who want to travel there getting stuck. They trying to fly back and are then stuck in the highway. I changed the gate location to be ~1600km more down. This solved it. I didn't find other sectors with such problems by now.
Save file sizes over 4GB, here some regex to clean them out via notepad+ as I did to play again:
Search for <influences> - count them, should be in the millions!
Replace (w. RegEx AND checked \r\n option)
<influences>.+?</influences>\n -> Replace with empty.
@dexty101 - thx regarding EmEditor- will give it a try. Maybe also good for work, there we also use lage svg's with (in rare occurences) large entries...
While the problems with the bload save xml seems gone, this also lead to changes in the zones - as writen in the 8.2.6 notes above.
With this changes also several mining/ressource fields are now gone as well. While the miners are still trying to mine, they will not find ressources. E.g. scale plate green 1 (xenon sec.) - before we had all minerals and gases there, now only a part (H2, CH4, Ice) remains. This sector also had (in 8.2.5) travel restrictions and damage zones.
The problem with the ressources is the save itself, the ressources are writen inside the save as well, now the mining ships are flying in regards to this - and are finding nothing. Only way is to redirect/change the miner settings and try, or a new game.
I'm also experiecing a problem with mining in version 8.2.6. I started a new custom start with a few miners in different sectors for testing. When i'm in sector with the ships mining behaves as expected, and also when live streaming an out of sector ship. But when the ships are out of sector they create a "Fly and wait *jump" as soon as they arrive at that location they put another Fly and wait command before the mining command and fly somewhere else. They never actually get to the mining command. I tested with Local, Advanced and Expert automine and with a direct order to mine, all with the same result. Only running your mods:
Expanse
stars
smoke in the cabin
X realspace colors of the prism
REM X realspace engine mods
REM slipstream high travel speeds and instant stop.
So you observed that in high attention they work fine, this is also useful because routine mining order is split into two separated scripts, one in low one in high attention.
Will look next days, am not at the pc for 3 days. Thinking about removing the jump completely for mining ships maybe..
Download XRSGE version 8.2.8 (uploading..)
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